230 Gallon In the Making Biotype

[Second Hand Pat]

It's home. My new 230 acrylic tank which is my Mother's day, birthday, anniversary, christmas and anything else for the year of 2011 is finally here. It rode very nicely in the tank. Hubby elevated the stand and tank with three 2x6 boards above the wheel wells so we could use the full size for the bed.

Still in truck
http://i925.photobucket.com/albums/ad95/Second_Hand_Pat/230%20Gallon/IMAG0252.jpg

Ready for cleaning/sanitizing.
http://i925.photobucket.com/albums/ad95/Second_Hand_Pat/230%20Gallon/IMAG0253.jpg

Sump
http://i925.photobucket.com/albums/ad95/Second_Hand_Pat/230%20Gallon/IMAG0254.jpg

Stand in dining room waiting for it's new placement in the family room. Darn stand is heavier then the tank.
http://i925.photobucket.com/albums/ad95/Second_Hand_Pat/230%20Gallon/IMAG0255.jpg

[Second Hand Pat]

Pictures taken before tank breakdown. I forget to take a picture of the overflow in action. Besides cleaning and some furniture rearrangement I need new bulkheads.

Bulkheads
http://i925.photobucket.com/albums/ad95/Second_Hand_Pat/230%20Gallon/IMAG0197.jpg

Pump
http://i925.photobucket.com/albums/ad95/Second_Hand_Pat/230%20Gallon/IMAG0198.jpg

Sump inlets.
http://i925.photobucket.com/albums/ad95/Second_Hand_Pat/230%20Gallon/IMAG0199.jpg

Sump
http://i925.photobucket.com/albums/ad95/Second_Hand_Pat/230%20Gallon/IMAG0200.jpg

[deepflyball]

Pat looking good there. I 2 am thinking about moveing up to a 220-240 gal tank, but not sure i want a sump. Had them before just not sole. Seems like if you are feeding meat they get real nasty in a hurry. Have you any ideas on where its best to shop on a large tank, and your thoughts on the sump . Thanks so much Jerry

[geodehunter]

Pat, Congrats on getting your baby home!!! I bet you were happier then a kid in the candy store. :thumbsup:

[Second Hand Pat]

Thanks Jerry, this was a craigslist buy. I paid a bit more but the tank was very clean and the owner was proud of it and maintained it nice. Some of my other craiglist tanks required a lot more work to get them up to decent shape. Hubby and I rebuild/restained a stand and canopy last summer for my 100 gallon oceanic.

All I have is sumps. When I feed frozen foods including BH mix I thaw it in a small cup before feeding and release it gently in the water column for feeding. Yes, it does spread the BH out a bit more but gives all the fish a chance to eat. I generally do not have it end up in the sump.

Regarding pro/cons in a sump. Pro are more water volume, super oxygenated water and a place to hide all the goodies like a heater. DIY sumps can be cheap. Cons are they are noisy (some of the newer designs are more quieter), and one or more overflows in the tank and more opportunities for leaks (similar to a canister filter). I am sure there are more and bet more folks will chime in.

[Second Hand Pat]

Pat, Congrats on getting your baby home!!! I bet you were happier then a kid in the candy store. :thumbsup:

Yes Robbie, I'm tickled pink.

[Melissa]

Whooo Hoooo!!!!! Sweeeet tank Pat!

[ZX10R]

Good buy can't wait to see what you do with it

[Darrell Ward]

Nice tank Pat. Since it's torn down already, you could convert that old fashioned trickle filter to a modern bio reactor really easy. just get some Kaldness media, and a saw. :D

[Sean Buehrle]

Pretty sweet pat. I like trickle filters, the heater can go in there so not in tank. Ive never seen anyone put bioballs in the drip plate, thats a new one on me. As far as the sheet prefilter goes they are a breeze to clean, just grab the drip plate and head to the sink and spray with the hand sprayer, easy peasy. Another good thing about sumps is you can fill the sump and shoot the water right in the tank. Thats a nice tank, cant wait to see what you do with it.

Congrats


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Northwoods Discus]

I'm just a little envious, well a lot envious. Congrats Pat on the find. It should look awesome. Are you going wilds? I am dreaming up a little project like that as well. Will be looking forward to see what you do so I can steal some ideas.
Bill

[Second Hand Pat]

Whooo Hoooo!!!!! Sweeeet tank Pat!

Thanks Melissa, not as sweet as your with that 3D background and those beautiful wilds.


Good buy can't wait to see what you do with it

Thanks Sean


Nice tank Pat. Since it's torn down already, you could convert that old fashioned trickle filter to a modern bio reactor really easy. just get some Kaldness media, and a saw. :D

Thanks Darrell, cut the top off. More like a 3 chamber sump used for reef tanks?


Pretty sweet pat. I like trickle filters, the heater can go in there so not in tank. Ive never seen anyone put bioballs in the drip plate, thats a new one on me. As far as the sheet prefilter goes they are a breeze to clean, just grab the drip plate and head to the sink and spray with the hand sprayer, easy peasy. Another good thing about sumps is you can fill the sump and shoot the water right in the tank. Thats a nice tank, cant wait to see what you do with it.

Congrats

Thanks Sean, actually all I have is sumps. The blue is the tray is a filter pad.


I'm just a little envious, well a lot envious. Congrats Pat on the find. It should look awesome. Are you going wilds? I am dreaming up a little project like that as well. Will be looking forward to see what you do so I can steal some ideas.
Bill

Hey Bill, I saw your thread. This tank is exactly what you are looking for. Took me six months to find this and definitely worth the wait. Yes, I will be doing wilds. Either Alenquers or Tefes.

[Darrell Ward]

An easy way to make a fluidized bio reactor out of it, would be to remove the two chambers, and wedge 4" thick Poret foam across the sump from top to bottom, making a divider, and extra mechanical filtration in one. Put your Kaldness bio media in the divided area, add air stones, and replace the pre-filter. It may be useful to put Poret foam under this pre-filter to the water line in the reactor as well, to cut out the noise of running water. The water would drain from the tank through your drain hoses, enter the pre-filter, drain into the fluidized Kaldness bio media, leech through the Poret foam into the pump area of the sump, and be pumped back into the tank. It works great, I have my 240 set up this way, only my sump is an old 55 gal. aquarium. (Note: I eventually removed the pre-filter altogether from my setup, and just let the drains exit under water in the reactor to prevent the water noise. All mechanical filtration is done by the Poret divider. It's just much simpler, and the tank water is just as clear. That 4" thick foam traps everything, and can go a long time between cleanings. Amazing stuff. I clean the sump every few months anyway, so it's no big deal.)

[Disgirl]

That will be quite a tank Pat! Big as the old fashioned phone booth on it's side. Will look forward to following the tank set up, good luck with it all!
Barb

[TURQ64]

I'm plus one one the fluidized bed idea...I've been running wet/dries for 25 years, and now I'm changing them over one at a time, as I can see the advantages already..P.S. I didn't know you had this one up your sleeve..have fun with it!

[Second Hand Pat]

An easy way to make a fluidized bio reactor out of it, would be to remove the two chambers, and wedge 4" thick Poret foam across the sump from top to bottom, making a divider, and extra mechanical filtration in one. Put your Kaldness bio media in the divided area, add air stones, and replace the pre-filter. It may be useful to put Poret foam under this pre-filter to the water line in the reactor as well, to cut out the noise of running water. The water would drain from the tank through your drain hoses, enter the pre-filter, drain into the fluidized Kaldness bio media, leech through the Poret foam into the pump area of the sump, and be pumped back into the tank. It works great, I have my 240 set up this way, only my sump is an old 55 gal. aquarium. (Note: I eventually removed the pre-filter altogether from my setup, and just let the drains exit under water in the reactor to prevent the water noise. All mechanical filtration is done by the Poret divider. It's just much simpler, and the tank water is just as clear. That 4" thick foam traps everything, and can go a long time between cleanings. Amazing stuff. I clean the sump every few months anyway, so it's no big deal.)

Darrell, what do you think about this. Remove the egg crate dividers but keep the tray for a layer of quill batting and IALs. There are two sprays bars above the tray. Add poret foam at the water level below the tray (noise reducer) and the rest as you describe except will not need the airstones.

[Second Hand Pat]

That will be quite a tank Pat! Big as the old fashioned phone booth on it's side. Will look forward to following the tank set up, good luck with it all!
Barb

Thanks Barb, I may need to don scuba tanks to clean the silly thing.


I'm plus one one the fluidized bed idea...I've been running wet/dries for 25 years, and now I'm changing them over one at a time, as I can see the advantages already..P.S. I didn't know you had this one up your sleeve..have fun with it!

Gary, I am running two sumps that the moment. One of them is a wet/dry and the other is the sump from my reef and being run in a similar manner as Darrell describes except I am using a mesh bag for prefiltering and have pot scubbies instead of Kaldness bio media. I have been looking for a 180 for about 6 months and this one became available. I am alittle scared of the 31 inh height. I have not figured out yet how to do wipedowns. Sucks being only 5 feet tall.

[jcardona1]

Cons are they are noisy (some of the newer designs are more quieter), and one or more overflows in the tank and more opportunities for leaks (similar to a canister filter). I am sure there are more and bet more folks will chime in.

Tank looks great Pat! Sumps have no cons IMO, but I'm biased. I hate all other forms of filtration! As for noise, you should run a Herbie overflow on that thing. You'll be glad you did. It will make your setup dead silent! You can also make it even quieter by getting away from the standard wet/dry setup. I like using submerged ceramic media with no drip trays or dividers. Filter pads can be very messy on wet/drys. That's why I love filter socks. They do an amazing job at keeping the water clear. When the clog, the water overflows out of the sock. Just swap it out for a new one and toss them in the washing machine. I've been using sumps for a long time. I've also used several pre-made store bought wet/drys and I've never liked them. I like my design better :) Easier and cheaper to build, and maintenance is a breeze. The sump stays very clean with no debris build up in the bottom.

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5177/5594380596_5a7fe1161c_b.jpg

[jcardona1]

Gary, I am running two sumps that the moment. One of them is a wet/dry and the other is the sump from my reef and being run in a similar manner as Darrell describes except I am using a mesh bag for prefiltering and have pot scubbies instead of Kaldness bio media. I have been looking for a 180 for about 6 months and this one became available. I am alittle scared of the 31 inh height. I have not figured out yet how to do wipedowns. Sucks being only 5 feet tall.

About fluidized beds and kaldness-type media. They work great, but I think it's overkill for the typical aquarium. These types of systems are great when you have ponds or stock tanks filled with several pounds of large fish that create massive bio loads, like heavily stocked koi ponds. But for a small show tank, it just isn't needed IMO. For example, if you're current setup with pot scrubbies already gives you 0 ammonia/nitrites, you won't get any benefit from going to a fluidized bed with different media. It's just an expense that isn't needed, IMO.

[Darrell Ward]

Darrell, what do you think about this. Remove the egg crate dividers but keep the tray for a layer of quill batting and IALs. There are two sprays bars above the tray. Add poret foam at the water level below the tray (noise reducer) and the rest as you describe except will not need the airstones.

The thing is, the compartment needs hold the Kaldness media, and stay full of water, while the added air keeps the small media rings moving and tumbling at all times, thus the term "fluidized" or moving bed bio reactor. It's highly efficient, and 10 times better than a static based system. Once you try it, you'll never go back to trickle type systems again. This type of system was originally developed in Europe for waste treatment plants.

[jcardona1]

The thing is, the compartment needs hold the Kaldness media, and stay full of water, while the added air keeps the small media rings moving and tumbling at all times, thus the term "fluidized" or moving bed bio reactor. It's highly efficient, and 10 times better than a static based system. Once you try it, you'll never go back to trickle type systems again.

Yeah, you could even use bio balls in a fluidized chamber since they float. They key is that the media has to be buoyant and being constantly agitated, with a strong air pump or power head. You could use any plastic product that floats really. Hair curlers, army men, straws, etc. Kaldness has 260 sq ft of surface area per cubic foot of media. Bio balls have about 160, so the difference in surface area is not that much. You can also use the little plastic beads that are used in pressurized bead filters, those float easily. And they have a surface area of 400, over 1.5x that of Kaldness media.

[Darrell Ward]

Tank looks great Pat! Sumps have no cons IMO, but I'm biased. I hate all other forms of filtration! As for noise, you should run a Herbie overflow on that thing. You'll be glad you did. It will make your setup dead silent! You can also make it even quieter by getting away from the standard wet/dry setup. I like using submerged ceramic media with no drip trays or dividers. Filter pads can be very messy on wet/drys. That's why I love filter socks. They do an amazing job at keeping the water clear. When the clog, the water overflows out of the sock. Just swap it out for a new one and toss them in the washing machine. I've been using sumps for a long time. I've also used several pre-made store bought wet/drys and I've never liked them. I like my design better :) Easier and cheaper to build, and maintenance is a breeze. The sump stays very clean with no debris build up in the bottom.

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5177/5594380596_5a7fe1161c_b.jpg

I used to run a system similar to yours with the filter socks. In all honesty, filter socks suck! They clog way too easily, and then they don't filter at all. The water just backs up backs up over the rim of the sock, doing nothing. They do this way too often IMO. They also wear out after a few washings, and have to be replaced. That's why I scrapped this type of system after a couple of years. If you like it, that's great. I was just pointing out the major flaw in the design.

[Darrell Ward]

Yeah, you could even use bio balls in a fluidized chamber since they float. They key is that the media has to be buoyant and being constantly agitated, with a strong air pump or power head. You could use any plastic product that floats really. Hair curlers, army men, straws, etc. Kaldness has 260 sq ft of surface area per cubic foot of media. Bio balls have about 160, so the difference in surface area is not that much. You can also use the little plastic beads that are used in pressurized bead filters, those float easily. And they have a surface area of 400, over 1.5x that of Kaldness media.

Yep, you could. The Kaldness works just a bit better, since it's designed to be self cleaning.

[jcardona1]

I used to run a system similar to yours with the filter socks. In all honesty, filter socks suck!

LOL, you sure you were using filter socks? I've had these same set of socks since late '09. They get constantly washed and they're still holding up great. I buy them from mcmaster.com. 25 micron socks. They last about a week before I change them out. As for their filtering ability, you just have to see my tank in person. The water is crystal clear. And of course they're not going to filter anything when it backs up and the water is spilling over the edge. Water takes the path of least resistance. As they clog, the water level rises until it spills over the edge. Then I take 2 minutes of my day to change them. I won't ever run a filter pad or sponge again!

[Darrell Ward]

LOL, you sure you were using filter socks? I've had these same set of socks since late '09. They get constantly washed and they're still holding up great. I buy them from mcmaster.com. 25 micron socks. They last about a week before I change them out. As for their filtering ability, you just have to see my tank in person. The water is crystal clear. And of course they're not going to filter anything when it backs up and the water is spilling over the edge. Water takes the path of least resistance. As they clog, the water level rises until it spills over the edge. Then I take 2 minutes of my day to change them. I won't ever run a filter pad or sponge again!

Oh yeah. McMaster Carr used to send me the same ones from their warehouse in Ga. They filter fine while they are not clogged! LOL! Like I said , if you like them, that's cool. They do work. They are just better ways "to skin a cat" IMO.

[Second Hand Pat]

Thanks Jose and Darrell, thanks for all the great information. Definitely more than one way to skin the cat and all good. Most likely I will do a mix and match for my particular situation. ;)

[Second Hand Pat]

Started tank cleanup this morning. Used the house vac to suck up most of the remaining sand and doing a vinegar wash for the lime buildup. Later will do a beach wash.

So you folks with tall tanks, what do you recommend for arm/hand extenders for cleaning. My first thought was a extra tall kitchen stool and a pair of kitchen tongs. Also anyone with an acrylic tank have recommendations for cleaning tools and/or techniques?

[geodehunter]

What about one of those 2 step folding stools? When you are done with it just throw it in the closet.

[Second Hand Pat]

Robbie, I have one of those for my 24 high 100 gallon. Home depot has a three stepper so considering one of these. This tank with stand is around 6 foot high.

[geodehunter]

Pat, What about one of those ladders that folds out into a scaffolding? That way you could walk back and forth.

[Second Hand Pat]

As in mounted into the ceiling. LOL cute.

[geodehunter]

Pat, Something like this one. http://cgi.ebay.com/MULTI-POSITION-FOLDING-ALUMINUM-STEP-LADDER-SCAFFOLD-/220746194567?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item33657f9e87

[Second Hand Pat]

Way better and worthy of consideration. Thanks Robbie.

[geodehunter]

If you have a Lowes, Home Depot, Menards etc. try checking them out. Pretty sure they have them and i know you can find one cheaper. :)

[geodehunter]

Pat, Once you get your tank set on the stand would you please post a pic. Thanks, Robbie

[Second Hand Pat]

Should Robbie, most likely will be empty. Still want a pic?

[mwdw]

vinegar wash? I'm setting up a 210 gallon with a lot lime build up. do you mix it 50/50 vinegar and water?

[Second Hand Pat]

I am spraying it on at full strength and letting it sit. I have been spraying it on several times today as vinegar needs to sit to be effective.

[geodehunter]

Yes, Still want a pic if you would please. Kind of like a build thread. Your aquarium has me intriged. I guess its the size of the tank and its acrylic. Inquiring minds need to know. :gossip:

[Second Hand Pat]

Sure Robbie will do but it may be a week before it is on the stand. In the mean time here is a picture of it setup at the seller's place. It is 72x24x31.

http://i925.photobucket.com/albums/ad95/Second_Hand_Pat/IMAG0195.jpg

[geodehunter]

Thanks Pat!!! Please keep us posted. :thumbsup:

[Darrell Ward]

Started tank cleanup this morning. Used the house vac to suck up most of the remaining sand and doing a vinegar wash for the lime buildup. Later will do a beach wash.

So you folks with tall tanks, what do you recommend for arm/hand extenders for cleaning. My first thought was a extra tall kitchen stool and a pair of kitchen tongs. Also anyone with an acrylic tank have recommendations for cleaning tools and/or techniques?

I have a couple of 30" deep tanks. I have found the following helpful...http://www.fosterandsmithaquatics.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=5544 Pricey, but worth it when you drop something in the tank, and it goes straight to the bottom. Mag Floats are great for those tank "wipe downs"....http://www.fosterandsmithaquatics.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=13366. I've found these to work wonderful. http://jehmco.com/html/maintenance_equipment.html .They swivel, so they can get into hard to reach places. Look for 10" swivel pad, Item PAASSP, and the 4' pole Item PAPMV-PA both on this page.

[Second Hand Pat]

Sure Robbie, be happy too.

Thanks Darrell, I was looking at fosters and smith earlier today at both items. I was thinking of using a kitchen tong but most likely too short. Also like that pad/pole combo :)

Oh yea, thinking of a slimline BG for this baby. http://www.designsbynature.net/products-page/slimline-bgs/ item BJ27WA at the bottom of the page.

[Darrell Ward]

You know, I had given up finding one of those "3-D" backgrounds for a tall tank. I think those might just work!;)

[Second Hand Pat]

Darrell, they are the slimline and are 31.75 inches tall and about 1 inch thick. I have one in my 100 gallon which is 24 inch tall. It fits flat against the glass. The top of the BG does need to be against your brace as these are very buoyant.

[Darrell Ward]

Cool. I guess you would just silicone the pieces together for the right length?

[Second Hand Pat]

If you silicone them together you can not remove the it for cleaning. The pieces are designed to overlap so really no need to silicone.

[Darrell Ward]

Oh, OK. While I'm thinking about aquarium stuff, I found a good deal on lights today, even comes with the bulb. I'm thinking about getting a couple of these. That's even a better deal than the ones I got before....http://fishneedit.com/75w-metal-halide-pendant-ligh75.html

[Second Hand Pat]

No, I have not had that problem. I will post a picture for you once the phone has finished it's update. Nice lighting fixture at a sweet price.

[Second Hand Pat]

Darrell, here you go. The BG is at the top of the picture.

http://i925.photobucket.com/albums/ad95/Second_Hand_Pat/IMAG0257.jpg

[Darrell Ward]

That's a good look. I may have to rob the cookie jar and fix up the 150 gal. to start with. I've been wanting to change that tank anyway.

[Second Hand Pat]

That's a good look. I may have to rob the cookie jar and fix up the 150 gal. to start with. I've been wanting to change that tank anyway.

Darrel, when you are ready email Matt on the site and see if he was the quantity you need. I want six panels of the one above. Want to place the BG around the overflow also.

[Darrell Ward]

OK. I haven't yet picked a favorite. They all look pretty good to me.:)

[jcardona1]

If you silicone them together you can not remove the it for cleaning. The pieces are designed to overlap so really no need to silicone.

Interesting. My slimline background from Aqua Terra is completely siliconed in; from the back and the joints. Those pieces aren't going anywhere!

[TURQ64]

Pat, I don't know if this is too tacky for you, but when I'm away, my wife uses a cheap, long handled combination squeegee-sponge(that part's a polyester sheepskin) to clean all of the glass surfaces as she's short and short-armed..Not a 'certified fish product', but works great and is easy to keep clean.....

[ZX10R]

Want to place the BG around the overflow also.

That is what I did with my new setup was a little tricky cutting the angles but ended up working out great.

[Second Hand Pat]

Jose, the slimlines from designs by nature could be siliconed also I suspect.

Gary, you have a link to a "long handled combination squeegee-sponge" :)

Cool Sean, is your BG siliconed around your overflow? Appears to be perfectly doable.

[ZX10R]

Cool Sean, is your BG siliconed around your overflow? Appears to be perfectly doable.

I had a overflow box so I took some acrylic boxed it in and ran the slimeline background around it. I will take some pics tomorrow and show you what I did.

[Second Hand Pat]

Sean, that would be cool. Thanks

[ZX10R]

Sorry for the delay Pat had to do some yard work tonight.

Here is my tank if you notice the right hand side that is where my overflow box is located.
http://i890.photobucket.com/albums/ac101/sig4s/Price008.jpg

I didn't like the fact the overflow box mainly pulled from the surface so when I boxed it in I cut 4 openings along the bottom so it would draw water in just above my sand.
http://i890.photobucket.com/albums/ac101/sig4s/Price014.jpg

Here is my overflox box I cut out some of the corner so I could angle in quicker to take up less space.
http://i890.photobucket.com/albums/ac101/sig4s/Price010.jpg

You can see how I ran the acrylic around the overflow then cut the slimeline background at angles.
http://i890.photobucket.com/albums/ac101/sig4s/Price012.jpg

I also cut 2 openings up top so it would still pull a little water in from the surface.
http://i890.photobucket.com/albums/ac101/sig4s/Price013.jpg

And since your state won't allow these and I know how you would of liked to have gotten one I had to add this for a teaser.
http://i890.photobucket.com/albums/ac101/sig4s/Price015.jpg

[geodehunter]

Pat, Your tank is coming together quite fast. It's looking flip'n awesome!!! How long until you will be able to put your discus in?

[Second Hand Pat]

Sean, you did a really excellent job covering the overflow box with the BG. I like the draw of water from the bottom too. Should move the water behind the BG and yup, like the ray :)

My situation a little easier I think since I have the built-in overflow with the acrylic bracing covering the area around the top of the overflow. I should be able to cut my height and then cut the area around the toothed edge of the overflow.

Really like your tank. No fish yet.

[Second Hand Pat]

Pat, Your tank is coming together quite fast. It's looking flip'n awesome!!! How long until you will be able to put your discus in?

Robbie, that is Sean's tank, not mine. My tank is still sitting on the front porch but it is ready to come in. Worked a long day today and was unwilling to mess with it tonight.

[ZX10R]

Sean, you did a really excellent job covering the overflow box with the BG. I like the draw of water from the bottom too. Should move the water behind the BG and yup, like the ray :)

My situation a little easier I think since I have the built-in overflow with the acrylic bracing covering the area around the top of the overflow. I should be able to cut my height and then cut the area around the toothed edge of the overflow.

Really like your tank. No fish yet.

I was hoping to drill my tank but found out it was tempered glass so this was my next idea. I just used a hacksaw blade to cut mine made it very easy to cut. I haven't taken any pics of the tank with the fish in it. I have two that paired up and layings eggs they have had wigglers the last two batchs. I was very happy with the slimeline background from Designs By Nature.

[geodehunter]

Oop's my bad. It's been a long day. :)

[Second Hand Pat]

Congrats on the wigglers. Are you going to be raising fry here soon.

[Second Hand Pat]

Oop's my bad. It's been a long day. :)

Hear ya on the long day...days for me.

[ZX10R]

Congrats on the wigglers. Are you going to be raising fry here soon.

The only fry I will be raising is a baby in about a month. I would love to move them and try to raise some fry but with the wife pregnant and almost due I think it would be best to just wait.

[Second Hand Pat]

Sean, I remember you mentioned about expecting a baby soon. How exciting for you. Congrats to you and your spouse.

[zchauvin]

Pat, I think you should just get working on that tank already ;)) we discus enthusiast need some photos!! :)

[Second Hand Pat]

Zach lol, Silly thing is still sitting on the front porch. Working long days and at the end of the day there is not much left. On a high note it is ready to come into the house. I need to take down a 75 and move to the "fish room" before moving it into the house. The freezer is now in the garage leaving the space for the 75. This weekend is a three day weekend so plan to get a lot done.

The tank will not start to be put together until I get back from Ga after the 12th.

[zchauvin]

Ehh oookk :(

[mwdw]

congrates on the fry. what strain is your pair? well you got a month to sleep threw the night. lol

mike.

[Second Hand Pat]

Hey Mike, you have the right thread? Lol

[ZX10R]

congrates on the fry. what strain is your pair? well you got a month to sleep threw the night. lol

mike.

I sent you a PM Mike.

[Second Hand Pat]

With a little luck the tank will be setting in the stand tomorrow. :)

[Second Hand Pat]

Pat, Once you get your tank set on the stand would you please post a pic. Thanks, Robbie

Here you go Robbie. Took two old men and one old lady to get the beast onto the stand. We ended up placing the tank on it's long end and the two guys leaned the tank onto the stand and lifted the end. I guided to ensure the tank do not bang into the wall.

http://i925.photobucket.com/albums/ad95/Second_Hand_Pat/230%20Gallon/IMAG0258.jpg
http://i925.photobucket.com/albums/ad95/Second_Hand_Pat/230%20Gallon/IMAG0259.jpg

Now I will allow the tank to dry out completely and start to figure out the sump. Still need to get the bulkheads. Hope those pups can be tighten from the bottom. lol.

[Disgirl]

Pat, that is going to be an awesome tank when all done! How many discus do you plan to put in there? Lots of wood and live plants? Just wood and sand? You can get in and swim with the fish :).
Barb

[Second Hand Pat]

Thanks Barb, Yes, I could easily fit in this tank. Scuba tanks and all. Just wood and sand for now. I tried plants in the 100 gallon home tank and they are quite messy. I will target 10 at first and see how that rolls. I also have some young red head tapajos who are just getting into their adult coloration and some of those will go in there. Still deciding on other dither fish.

[zchauvin]

Looking good, I have been checking in on this thread :)

[Second Hand Pat]

Thanks Zach :) it will be a bit slow going until I return from Ga on the 11th. Then all hell will break loose.

[zchauvin]

Lol yeah I remember you saying something about that. I can't wait to see. With some schooling fish, those geos and wilds I think your biotope will look great

[Darrell Ward]

Bulkheads are not bad to install. The best way I've found to install them into a deep overflow box, is to install the standpipe to the bulkhead fitting first, then insert the fitting into the hole, using the standpipe as a "handle". You can then tighten the nut on the bulkhead, while a helper holds the standpipe in the overflow box to keep the whole thing from turning as you tighten the nut on the underside.

[CajunAg]

Bulkheads are not bad to install. The best way I've found to install them into a deep overflow box, is to install the standpipe to the bulkhead fitting first, then insert the fitting into the hole, using the standpipe as a "handle". You can then tighten the nut on the bulkhead, while a helper holds the standpipe in the overflow box to keep the whole thing from turning as you tighten the nut on the underside.

+1 Easiest way by far!

[Second Hand Pat]

Thanks Zach :)


Bulkheads are not bad to install. The best way I've found to install them into a deep overflow box, is to install the standpipe to the bulkhead fitting first, then insert the fitting into the hole, using the standpipe as a "handle". You can then tighten the nut on the bulkhead, while a helper holds the standpipe in the overflow box to keep the whole thing from turning as you tighten the nut on the underside.

Great description Darrell and thanks for the info.

Thanks too Luke, CajunAg is an interesting username, must be a story behind it. :)

[geodehunter]

Thanks Pat!!! Your tank really cleaned up good. I bet you did have fun getting it onto the stand. Just thinking about that makes mt back hurt.:) When will you be able to put the water in it? Congrats on getting the hard part done. :thumbsup:

[Second Hand Pat]

Hey Robbie, the vinegar did a good job. Planning on filling it the weekend of the 16/17. Next weekend my daughter and I are driving to Ga for my parents 80th B-day bash which my sister and I was hosting.

On the tank I still need bulkheads and currently cleaning sump and related parts. Once it is up and running (with no leaks) then I will seed it with bio from the 100 gallon and move a small crew in. I have ordered the wood which still has not arrived and will be ordering the background early this week.

[mwdw]

nice tank! really interested in your set up. i can't wait to see it finished. the stand really sets it off. thanks again for the vinegar tip.

mike

[Second Hand Pat]

Thanks Mike and hope the vinegar works for you. It cleaned the top of this tank nicely. The stand is heaver then the tank. There's a matching canopy also.

[geodehunter]

It's getting so close I can almost here the water going into the tank. :shocked2:

[Second Hand Pat]

Aw Robbie, maybe this weekend. The bulkheads come tomorrow and need those before starting any of the plumbing. The background is expected Monday so slowly making progress.

[CajunAg]

Thanks too Luke, CajunAg is an interesting username, must be a story behind it. :)

Not really. I'm from Louisiana and have some Cajun heritage, along w/ a natural love for cooking/devouring Cajun food. I went to school at Texas A&M, making me an official Aggie. Hence, CajunAg.

/Sorry to derail, back to the build!

[Second Hand Pat]

Oh, OK. While I'm thinking about aquarium stuff, I found a good deal on lights today, even comes with the bulb. I'm thinking about getting a couple of these. That's even a better deal than the ones I got before....http://fishneedit.com/75w-metal-halide-pendant-ligh75.html

Hey Darrell, which color temp bulb do you use over your wilds tank? 6700K?

[Darrell Ward]

6500K.

[Second Hand Pat]

Thanks Darrell,

On a roll here. Background comes Monday. PC1 PMed that the wood is at the local greyhound office and gluing the PVC pieces together today. With a little luck I will be able to do sump water checks tomorrow, first on the front porch and later in the stand. Getting close :) :) :)

[Darrell Ward]

Cool!

[jcardona1]

Can't wait! And yeah I think all freshwater look better under lighting that's around 6500-6700K. 10,000k is too blue for my tastes.

[Melissa]

So excited for you woman! :) :) :)

[Second Hand Pat]

Thanks Darrell, Jose and Melissa. :)

Played with the sump this morning on the front porch and after cleaning the sand out of one bulkhead no leaks. The pump is fairly powerful. Tom and I slightly redesigned the underneath plumbing and that is all cemented and drying. So later today should be able to put everything together and do bulkhead leak checks prior to filling the tank. :):):) :grin: Scared and excited all at the same time.

[Second Hand Pat]

Brought everything in and setup the sump under the stand, pulled the pipes in the overflow to allow water to enter the overflow and pour right back into the return to the sump. This allows me to check all the connections from and to the sump without filling the tank.

Filled the sump part way with the python and turned the pump on. One of the bulkheads leaked so tighten that down and so far so good. Everything seems dry. :) and the tank is still not filled :(

I am using the wet/dry for now sort of as is but running with a higher water level to not do the dry part of the wet/dry and will use pot scubbies as the bio-media but with aeration underneath to mimic the fluidized bed. A this point the sump is a big empty.

http://i925.photobucket.com/albums/ad95/Second_Hand_Pat/IMAG0290.jpg
http://i925.photobucket.com/albums/ad95/Second_Hand_Pat/IMAG0291.jpg

Here I am using the overflow to test the sump and all connections.
http://i925.photobucket.com/albums/ad95/Second_Hand_Pat/IMAG0292-1.jpg

[zchauvin]

Nice, hurry and get some fish in there ;)

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[Darrell Ward]

I couldn't see one in the pictures, but it would be a good idea if you haven't done so, to install a check valve somewhere in the sump return plumbing. This is to prevent back-siphoning thru the pump when the returns are under water, and there is no power going to the pump. This can overflow the sump, and make a huge mess. :)

[jcardona1]

I couldn't see one in the pictures, but it would be a good idea if you haven't done so, to install a check valve somewhere in the sump return plumbing. This is to prevent back-siphoning thru the pump when the returns are under water, and there is no power going to the pump. This can overflow the sump, and make a huge mess. :)

Good idea! Either that, or put your return at or above water level, but that just adds a lot of noise.

[CajunAg]

I couldn't see one in the pictures, but it would be a good idea if you haven't done so, to install a check valve somewhere in the sump return plumbing. This is to prevent back-siphoning thru the pump when the returns are under water, and there is no power going to the pump. This can overflow the sump, and make a huge mess. :)

+2, but as a tip I recommend using a check valve with threaded connections. As the valve will eventually wear out, or have to much buildup to work properly, it's always good to plan accordingly that someday that valve will need to be removed/changed. Marine Depot has a check valve with threaded true union connections, I'd have ordered one if I weren't so impatient. Oh, and at least for my area, Lowes doesn't carry threaded check valves, only socket. Home Depot had both.

[Darrell Ward]

Yeah, I often screw a hose barb connector on each end of the check valve so it can be used on tubing, since tubing is easier to work with doing returns, and there is no head loss due to sharp turns. Since you're in Florida anyway, Aquatic Eco-Systems will always have anything you could imagine if you're looking for something and can't find it. These people have helped me out in the past when no one else could. Toll free: 877-347-4788, Tech Support: 407-598-1401, online: AquaticEco.com, and you can even pick up from 8-5 on weekdays, 8-4:30pm on Friday.

[Second Hand Pat]

Thanks guys, great idea. The background came today and I have two of the five panels cut. It is a bit darker in person then in the picture.

[zchauvin]

Thanks guys, great idea. The background came today and I have two of the five panels cut. It is a bit darker in person then in the picture.

Pics?? :) and no worries once submerged and lit up it wont be very dark

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[Second Hand Pat]

Zach, tomorrow after the panels are cut, rinsed in and in place. Ok? Hands are all sore and bruised from screwing and unscrewing cables on the ATE I worked on doing software integration.

[zchauvin]

Zach, tomorrow after the panels are cut, rinsed in and in place. Ok? Hands are all sore and bruised from screwing and unscrewing cables on the ATE I worked on doing software integration.

Lol no problem :) sounds like you had your hands full today and still worked on your tank. That's some nice devotion to the hobby :):)

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[Second Hand Pat]

Thanks, so have WCs to do tonight.

[zchauvin]

Thanks, so have WCs to do tonight.

Ehh, tell me about it.. while doing mine today I had python siphoning 75 and bucket for my 29. Come back in the room and the 5g bucket had filled and you could about imagine what happened to my carpet... Bummer for sure :/

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[Dieselfool]

:fish:

[calihawker]

Can't wait to see pics Pat!

Steve

[Darrell Ward]

Hey Pat, since the pictures you posted, and my response are now missing, I basically said that I hope you can finesse and wiggle that piece of wood in place. It would be a shame to have to cut such a unique piece. It's going to be a nice tank.

[calihawker]

Stupid hacker:( please repost pics! I wanna see!

Steve

[Second Hand Pat]

OK, Steve, here is how I posted yesterday before the forum went south.

Background, note that I needed to cut the far right panel.
http://i925.photobucket.com/albums/ad95/Second_Hand_Pat/IMAG0295.jpg

Wood ordered for this tank
http://i925.photobucket.com/albums/ad95/Second_Hand_Pat/IMAG0294.jpg

[Second Hand Pat]

Forgive the crappy pictures.

Wood and background set into the tank. Darrell, I had to trim the longest branch by six inches to fit. I broke it vs cut so it looks natural.
http://i925.photobucket.com/albums/ad95/Second_Hand_Pat/IMAG0303.jpg

A bit closer...right to left
http://i925.photobucket.com/albums/ad95/Second_Hand_Pat/IMAG0304.jpg
http://i925.photobucket.com/albums/ad95/Second_Hand_Pat/IMAG0307.jpg
http://i925.photobucket.com/albums/ad95/Second_Hand_Pat/IMAG0305.jpg

OK guys, opinions welcome. Also will be cutting the pieces to go around the overflow this afternoon.

[calihawker]

That's looking really awesome Pat! I wasn't going to do any branches in mine but that looks so good I'm changing my mind. Me and Herb (herbicidal) are hunting for manzanita around my property today. I think I'll collect myself some.

Great tank!

Steve

[Second Hand Pat]

Steve, in person it looks awesome. I will try and get a better picture before filling. Once it is filled two of the three pieces will float. Hope you find some sweet pieces.

[Darrell Ward]

Looks good, but I would try flipping that smallest piece around, so the thickest part is down, just to see how that would look. That smaller piece needs some "experimenting with" IMO. Either way, it's going to be a good looking tank.

[dadecountyalan]

Looks good, but I would try flipping that smallest piece around, so the thickest part is down, just to see how that would look. That smaller piece needs some "experimenting with" IMO. Either way, it's going to be a good looking tank.

i completely agree, if that little branched was flipped it would look better with those long pieces branching out into the other piece of wood and towards the top of the tank. still looks very nice anyway

[Second Hand Pat]

Darrel, left most piece?

[Darrell Ward]

Darrel, left most piece?

Yes, the small one that looks darker in color in the photo.

[Second Hand Pat]

OK, I flipped the right most piece and I do like it better. Sorry it is a bit hard to see.

http://i925.photobucket.com/albums/ad95/Second_Hand_Pat/P72300491.jpg
http://i925.photobucket.com/albums/ad95/Second_Hand_Pat/P72300471.jpg

Here's the overflow decked out in the background.
http://i925.photobucket.com/albums/ad95/Second_Hand_Pat/P72300451.jpg

[Darrell Ward]

:thumbsup: Just need sand and water now, huh!

[Second Hand Pat]

Yup :grin: and a bit more work on the sump. Need to load bio-media and fit with form pieces. I forget how much work the larger tanks are.

[Darrell Ward]

Oh yeah. I can set up a 75 gal. in 20 mins. It takes me a full day with a tank over 150 gals.

[Second Hand Pat]

Yea, I setup my empty 75 in 15 mins the other day for the new set of wilds I just received. Got some of these too.

http://i925.photobucket.com/albums/ad95/Second_Hand_Pat/IMAG0297.jpg

[Darrell Ward]

Dang! Those are purty! You get those from John?

[Second Hand Pat]

Yup

[dadecountyalan]

now that looks nice pat cant wait to see the finished product

[Melissa]

YEEEEAAAAH BUDDY!!!!! That tank is so freaking awesome Pat!!!!!!!!

[Second Hand Pat]

Thanks Alan and Melissa, gets filled tomorrow :) and then the wood will float for a couple of weeks :(

Also two of the little rams are courting.

[Second Hand Pat]

Here's one of the future crew for this tank and one of the new wilds I received Friday.

http://i925.photobucket.com/albums/ad95/Second_Hand_Pat/IMAG0310.jpg

[strawberryblonde]

Woot woot! Tank pics!!! And new rams, and new wilds!

Can't wait to see it with water in it tomorrow. =)

[zchauvin]

Here's one of the future crew for this tank and one of the new wilds I received Friday.

http://i925.photobucket.com/albums/ad95/Second_Hand_Pat/IMAG0310.jpg

They look nice pat, you said you picked those up from john as well or just the group of rams?

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[Second Hand Pat]

Thanks Toni :)

Hey Zach, wilds and rams are from John, Six wilds, three tefe, one Uatama blue and two Alenquer. One Alenquer is a big boy with center bar on the right. Left is the Uatama blue.

http://i925.photobucket.com/albums/ad95/Second_Hand_Pat/IMAG0309.jpg

[zchauvin]

Thanks Toni :)

Hey Zach, wilds and rams are from John, Six wilds, three tefe, one Uatama blue and two Alenquer. One Alenquer is a big boy with center bar on the right. Left is the Uatama blue.

http://i925.photobucket.com/albums/ad95/Second_Hand_Pat/IMAG0309.jpg

Awesome I didn't know he had alenquers left? They look great btw.

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[Second Hand Pat]

Zach, John had been saving saving the Alenquers for me for about a month while I was dealing with sick fish.

[zchauvin]

Ahh I see, pulled a fast one :)) lol I hope to get a pair of the first royal alenquers of the new season.

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[Second Hand Pat]

Should be about October or so.

[zchauvin]

Should be about October or so.

Good deal, I got in touch with hekdiscus about a pair but he never got back to me about if he Hans would get any. Hopefully they will have a few :)

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[Second Hand Pat]

Hudson aka Hekdiscus would sell through Hans so suggest checking.with Hans. He may have a few wilds left.

[Second Hand Pat]

So filling the beast, 3/4 full...sitting on ants here

[zchauvin]

Yep I'm gunna talk to Hans come october. I am in process of getting water clear first lol. How's the tank coming? Should be almost full now :)
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[Second Hand Pat]

About six inches to go. Wood moved against background and scared the crap out of me.

[Darrell Ward]

The excitement builds! Join us after the commercial break to find out if Pat's tank is full, or has rapidly leaked down to half full level!:p

[calihawker]

Nice wilds! That's gonna be awesome! I like the way your hid the overflows. Great job!

Steve

[zchauvin]

The excitement builds! Join us after the commercial break to find out if Pat's tank is full, or has rapidly leaked down to half full level!:p

Haha nice one darrell

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[strawberryblonde]

Yer killing me Pat! LOL

I keep running back to look at this thread so I can follow the progress of the water fill. Done yet? Pics yet?

I needs me some pics of that gorgeous behemoth so I can start planning my next tank. (I think my husband is gonna divorce me when I tell him I need him to move out of his man cave and let me put a tank across one wall...)

[Second Hand Pat]

The excitement builds! Join us after the commercial break to find out if Pat's tank is full, or has rapidly leaked down to half full level!:p

Damn Darrell, how did you know. :p Sure enough...tank is full and was up and running for about 30 minutes and one of the hoses to the sump is leaking. Shut the pump down and re-tighten but the hose is comprised. :mad::mad:

While I am mucking with the hose I flood the WC barrel in the utility room closet. :mad::mad::mad: So quite a bit of drama in the household this afternoon. So tomorrow after work will be getting a new hose. On the plus side the new wilds are settling in nicely and are all eating. So I will take that and run with it.:D:D

[Second Hand Pat]

Nice wilds! That's gonna be awesome! I like the way your hid the overflows. Great job!

Steve

Thanks Steve :)

[Second Hand Pat]

Yer killing me Pat! LOL

I keep running back to look at this thread so I can follow the progress of the water fill. Done yet? Pics yet?

I needs me some pics of that gorgeous behemoth so I can start planning my next tank. (I think my husband is gonna divorce me when I tell him I need him to move out of his man cave and let me put a tank across one wall...)

Toni, I will get you some pictures. Looks good even with no water running through it.

[Second Hand Pat]

These are not the best and need to clean the tank.

Whole tank.
http://i925.photobucket.com/albums/ad95/Second_Hand_Pat/P72400631.jpg

Right side. Sorry for the glare.
http://i925.photobucket.com/albums/ad95/Second_Hand_Pat/P72400611.jpg

Left side.
http://i925.photobucket.com/albums/ad95/Second_Hand_Pat/P72400621.jpg

[Darrell Ward]

Damn Darrell, how did you know. :p Sure enough...tank is full and was up and running for about 30 minutes and one of the hoses to the sump is leaking. Shut the pump down and re-tighten but the hose is comprised. :mad::mad:

While I am mucking with the hose I flood the WC barrel in the utility room closet. :mad::mad::mad: So quite a bit of drama in the household this afternoon. So tomorrow after work will be getting a new hose. On the plus side the new wilds are settling in nicely and are all eating. So I will take that and run with it.:D:D

Heck, you always have a leak or two when first hooking up a sump. You know you can sink your driftwood quickly by drilling holes on the bottom side big enough to hide a fairly large fishing sinker or two, (the ones that weigh several ounces). You then plug the hole with aquarium epoxy putty, like reefers use to attach corals. You can get it at almost any LFS. Instant driftwood sinking! I've done it lots of times. :)

[Second Hand Pat]

Yea, but the leaks are still annoying. Good idea on the fishing sinker. You are referring to lead sinkers right?

Since my tank pictures suck with all the glare here are some pics of the new wilds. The tefes will be part of the crew which goes on this tank.

Big red Alenquer with center bar. What does the center bar mean? Heckel cross?
http://i925.photobucket.com/albums/ad95/Second_Hand_Pat/P1010178.jpg

Tefes
http://i925.photobucket.com/albums/ad95/Second_Hand_Pat/P1010179.jpg
http://i925.photobucket.com/albums/ad95/Second_Hand_Pat/P1010177.jpg
http://i925.photobucket.com/albums/ad95/Second_Hand_Pat/P1010180.jpg

Of the six rams this is the boss ram and he is courting one of the females.
http://i925.photobucket.com/albums/ad95/Second_Hand_Pat/P1010186.jpg

[Darrell Ward]

Good looking fish! Nah, no Heckel in those, but they still look good. Good pattern on them. Yes, I use plain old lead sinkers. They will be encased in wood and epoxy, so it perfectly safe, and you never see them.

[Second Hand Pat]

Darrell, My hubby suggested stringing some leads onto some fishing line and draping it over the wood. I was concerned about lead leaching into the water but this is not a concern?

[Darrell Ward]

Well that's the neat thing about drilling a hole in the wood, and putting the sinkers in the the hole. The epoxy seals the hole, so the lead is sealed in, and you can't see it either.

[calihawker]

I like the idea Darrell. I was thinking using epoxy to glue the wood to the bottom.

Steve

[strawberryblonde]

The tank looks awesome with water in it Pat. Boo hiss on the leaky hose though. Mine had leaks on the gaskets, had to go to the plumbing store and buy gasket material to cut some new ones. What a pain, huh?

Your new fish...gorgeous!! Can't wait to see everyone swimming around in that driftwood! =)

[Darrell Ward]

In a pinch, if you have a leaky bulkhead gasket, you can remove the gasket, run a heavy bead of silicone around the bulkhead, and replace the fitting. When the fitting tighens up, the excess silicone squishes out, and forms a watertight seal. I did this to a 125 gal., and used it for many years before the tank itself started leaking in the corners, and I took it down.

[strawberryblonde]

I actually wanted to do the silicone trick, but here's the thing...I live in podunk city, Idaho. They literally do NOT carry aquarium safe silicone anywhere in town and I had to get the tank up and running within 2 days.

Ain't small town life a hoot? Heck, I was positive I'd be able to just buy a gasket in the correct size at my local plumbing store. WRONG! LOL

Hence the gasket material. It cost me 99 cents and was simple to cut to the right size.

[Darrell Ward]

I know what you mean. I live way out in the country myself, so I have a stockpile of supplies in the garage. Everything I could ever possibly need is in there. Heck, I could set up several tanks with all the stuff in there. I can't tell you how many times this stockpile has saved my butt.

[Second Hand Pat]

Hey Darrell, it was a hose and Tom suggested siliconing it but that requires a 24 hour dry time. I got the hose after work, arrived home, set up the WCs for later, feed the fish, horse and myself and went to put the new hose on and darn, a bit small. But hey, a small application of heat (with a heat gun) and wiggle that puppy right on there...and

We are UP and RUNNING. Woot. :grin:

[Second Hand Pat]

Thanks Toni, how do you like that little ram? Nice color for a inch and a half fish. :) I forget how much fun rams are.

[Darrell Ward]

:thumbsup: Cool! It ain't gonna leak with it heat shrunk on, Huh? Got enough cycled media to get her running? It would a major bummer to have to wait another month on a cycle. I love those rams. Very cool colors. I think I'll get some myself next time I order some fish.

[Second Hand Pat]

Hey Darell, no leaks...woot and will be moving some bio and dither fish in first starting with the rams. I want to get some sterbi cories from John and I hate to say it...but lemon tetras from the LFS.

[strawberryblonde]

With a good QT the LFS tetras should do fine. They're a nice tough fish. I got my sterbai's and rams from my LFS and got my albino cory's from <gasp> Walmart! LOL

Haven't lost a one of them and the albino's have been with me for 6 months now. Tough little buggers. They live in my discus tank and have a favorite game called "nudge the discus and steal their food". =)

[strawberryblonde]

Oh oh oh, forgot to mention your rams! They are really pretty and brightly colored for such younguns. Can't wait to see the fry they produce. So tank pics again tonight? <hint hint>

[Second Hand Pat]

Hey Toni, will be happy to post some pictures tonight. I will need to mount a light way up there and take the pictures at night to avoid the glare from the windows. BTW there is some countship happening with one of the ram pairs. One of red head tapajo pairs (two pairs now) had eggs this morning in the 100 gallon.

[zchauvin]

Congrats pat, I always saw courting going on between my rams but never any farther. Unlucky I guess :(

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[Second Hand Pat]

Or young. Give them time

[strawberryblonde]

Zach, do you have a couple flat rocks in your tank with the rams? They like to lay on flat surfaces, and they need to feel safe, so put a couple plants around the rock, or plop a small piece of driftwood in front of it (stick it close to a corner to avoid stress and aggression).

Mine have a fave corner and refuse to lay on their rocks, they prefer the driftwood, but it HAS to be in the corner.

Can't wait to see the pics Pat. =)

[zchauvin]

Yes I did until I got rid of them lol. They would clean a few sand particles off then nothing. Im trying to be more biotope specific so did away with rams. Just waiting to find someone offering festivums or something of the such.

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[Second Hand Pat]

Not great pictures but here is a look see. Plenty of tannins in the water and there is a light sand bottom. About 20 lbs. Of course the wood is floating a little. The light is not the permanent light. I plan on out fitting with a couple of 70W MH. Once I clean the front panel may look half way decent.

http://i925.photobucket.com/albums/ad95/Second_Hand_Pat/P1010191.jpg
http://i925.photobucket.com/albums/ad95/Second_Hand_Pat/P1010195.jpg
http://i925.photobucket.com/albums/ad95/Second_Hand_Pat/P1010194.jpg
http://i925.photobucket.com/albums/ad95/Second_Hand_Pat/P1010193.jpg

[zchauvin]

I think it looks great pat, very natural looking. Have you thought of hanging the second piece also like the bigger? Just a thought, from what I've experienced it is much much easier cleaning sand when nothing is on it. A open bottom with dw coming in from top would look like roots and be very hassle free for you. Just my 2 cents :)) with the way you hid sump and with the tannins and the ripples on top without any mh it already looks superb.

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[Second Hand Pat]

Thanks Zach, I will be playing with the scape more and may play with hanging from the top.:)

[Darrell Ward]

Water! Yay!:drummer:

[zchauvin]

It helped me a ton. What type of mh are you looking at? 2-3 of those 70w viper clamp ons? Saw a 150 biotope with three and the shimmer effect was awesome. Good for it you can't hang them.

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[Second Hand Pat]

Darrell, love the drums...much better than the whip :)

Zach, just two and will mount them in the canopy.

Toni, check this out.

http://i925.photobucket.com/albums/ad95/Second_Hand_Pat/P1010205.jpg

[Darrell Ward]

You'll love the MH lights. With 6500K bulbs, nothing looks more natural. I can't say for sure if 2 will cover a 6' tank, unless raised several inches above the tank. You canopy might be plenty tall enough though, I don't know. For refernce, I have mine raised 8".

[strawberryblonde]

Darrell, love the drums...much better than the whip :)

Zach, just two and will mount them in the canopy.

Toni, check this out.



http://i925.photobucket.com/albums/ad95/Second_Hand_Pat/P1010205.jpg

Look at the rosy belly on her, and eggs! They must love their new home, but now yer gonna need another tank for raising all the fry. Good job Pat! =)

[zchauvin]

Lucky you!!!!

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[Second Hand Pat]

Zach, I'm not sure if I'm lucky. I was not setting out to raise GBR fry. I also have a pair of red head tapajos on eggs too and all eggs were still there this morning.

Toni, if I end of with GBR fry I will need a crash course on rearing these things. Of the six John since me there appear to be 3 males and 3 females.

Thanks Darrell, I hope two will do. I have had MH in the past and love the effort they have. They will probable be mounted about 4/6 inches above the top of the tank.

There is also a chance I will have to go out of town for two weeks and have no clue what I will do with 5 tanks running :scared:

[Darrell Ward]

You should be able to make it work then. Wow, two weeks! That's kinda scary. I hate leaving 2 days not knowing what's going on with them.

[zchauvin]

You should be able to make it work then. Wow, two weeks! That's kinda scary. I hate leaving 2 days not knowing what's going on with them.

+1 I went nuts on my week vacation

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[Second Hand Pat]

Well, managed to sign up for second shift vs being away for 2 to 8 weeks :scared: So get to play with tanks and fish in the mornings before off to work in the afternoon/evening. Also ordered my first blackworms from Dan. Those will be fun.

Only a few ram eggs left tonight.

[Darrell Ward]

Ohhh, your fish are going to love you! They love Dan's blackworms!

[ZX10R]

Also ordered my first blackworms from Dan.

Good choice, just my opinion but my fish really put on size and weight while feeding those. And yes your fish will go nuts for them. Tanks is really looking good Pat fish are going to love it.

[Second Hand Pat]

Thanks Darrell and Sean, I mainly buy the blackworms for getting meds into the wilds to treat for internals. I also feed red wigglers so I am curious to compare the two.

Ordering my cleanup crew from snookn21 today for arrival next week. 12 sterbai cories and 3 Twig Catfish or Royal Farlowella. I saw where Apistomaster was getting some for his N. blue F1s to serve as algae eaters. So with a little research I found that John had some under a different name. These are very curious looking beast.

http://www.aquabid.com/cgi-bin/auction/auction.cgi?fwcatfishp&1312082408

[ZX10R]

Thanks Darrell and Sean, I mainly buy the blackworms for getting meds into the wilds to treat for internals. I also feed red wigglers so I am curious to compare the two.

Ordering my cleanup crew from snookn21 today for arrival next week. 12 sterbai cories and 3 Twig Catfish or Royal Farlowella. I saw where Apistomaster was getting some for his N. blue F1s to serve as algae eaters. So with a little research I found that John had some under a different name. These are very curious looking beast.

http://www.aquabid.com/cgi-bin/auction/auction.cgi?fwcatfishp&1312082408

Those look nice wonder how big do they get?

[zchauvin]

Well pat let's see some pics lol ;)

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[Second Hand Pat]

Sean, max size is about 8 inch on the Twig Catfish.

Zach, I will post more pictures this weekend once I get the rams moved in.

[Second Hand Pat]

So the blackworms came with three keepers. So I sort of winging it here and filled the bottom with 3/4 full of water, placed the worms into the top part with the screen and set the screened part into the water. All worms are submersed in about an 1.5 inches of water and set into refrigerator. I assume the top remains open? Rinse and repeat daily. Sound about right. Of course all the wilds needed a small sample of things to come.:)

[Lenin]

The worms should only have about 1/4" of water above them

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[Second Hand Pat]

The worms should only have about 1/4" of water above them

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Thanks Lenver :)

[Bill63SG]

So the blackworms came with three keepers. So I sort of winging it here and filled the bottom with 3/4 full of water, placed the worms into the top part with the screen and set the screened part into the water. All worms are submersed in about an 1.5 inches of water and set into refrigerator. I assume the top remains open? Rinse and repeat daily. Sound about right. Of course all the wilds needed a small sample of things to come.:)I put just enough water to cover them.I also save the water from my water chages to store them.I rinse them in tap,and chill down thw wc water from the day before and store them in that.Picked up a small fridge on Craig's,I keep them around 35,and can get 1 1/4 to last me around 3 weeks,give or take.

[Bill63SG]

Those look nice wonder how big do they get?I've had one for awhile.Burned out plecos and cories,but he's doing ok at 83-84.Around 7" with a 3" trailer.

[Darrell Ward]

I agree.Too much water turns blackworms to mush. I use just enough water to keep them wet, not even 1/4" above them. Keeps them wiggling and lively.

[Second Hand Pat]

Are these worms air beathers?

[Darrell Ward]

I don't think so. I'm not sure why, but they can live on the bottom of your aquarium, but seem to drown under an inch of water in the fridge. :confused: I've never really thought that much about it, but now you've got me wanting to know more about them.:D

[Second Hand Pat]

From Dan's website on worm care

"Keep no more then 1/2 inch of water above them, and do not cover their container they need to be able to breath."

Darrell, guessing here that maybe they need to be in close proximity to water surface for the air exchange between water and air.

http://blackworms-direct.com/blackwormcare.html

[Darrell Ward]

Yeah, reading a little about them, it seems they are naturally found in shallow water, and can lift their posterior end out of the water to draw in air. Interesting. So I guess they can "breathe" air after all, from their butt! LOL!

[Second Hand Pat]

Yeah, reading a little about them, it seems they are naturally found in shallow water, and can lift their posterior end out of the water to draw in air. Interesting. So I guess they can "breathe" air after all, from their butt! LOL!

Guess that explains why only a .5 inch (or less) of water in the keeper. So hubby decided he did not like live worms in the frig and surprised me with a mini-frig. So have a mini-fridge in the "fishroom".

I will be moving the rams into the big tank today. I did a 50% WC on that tank. The tannins from the wood had the water pretty dark. Also need a longer gravel cleaner. The 24 inch does not cut it.

Also have sterbai, twig catfish, gold and penguin tetras coming Wednesday.

[Darrell Ward]

Pat, you can make a gravel cleaner any length you need with some pvc pipe and fittings from the home improvement store. The end has a 1/2" fitting from the lawn sprinkler section that fits the standard hose on gravel cleaners perfectly. I made mine in two sections out of 1" pipe to make it user friendly. The short length makes starting the siphon easier. The extension is placed on the short tube after the siphon is started, by just pushing it on while holding both tubes underwater so you don't lose siphon. This makes using it in deep tanks easy. I've been using this one for years. I made it after not being able to find a suitable siphon anywhere for 30" deep tanks. (Hint: I use the thin walled "pressure pipe" rather than than sch.40 pvc. It's designed for lawn sprinkler use, but is perfect for use in aquariums. It's lighter, cheaper, and easier to work with.)


You're going to have a really nice tank when finished.

[strawberryblonde]

Oh my gosh Darrell, you are truly a godsend! I've had a horrible time with the typical length gravel cleaner and my husband has said that he wants to make one using pvc pipe, but I put it off since he said I had to figure out the connections, length, design, etc.

You just made it SO easy on me. =)

I'm sending him to this page as soon as he gets home.

[Second Hand Pat]

Pat, you can make a gravel cleaner any length you need with some pvc pipe and fittings from the home improvement store. The end has a 1/2" fitting from the lawn sprinkler section that fits the standard hose on gravel cleaners perfectly. I made mine in two sections out of 1" pipe to make it user friendly. The short length makes starting the siphon easier. The extension is placed on the short tube after the siphon is started, by just pushing it on while holding both tubes underwater so you don't lose siphon. This makes using it in deep tanks easy. I've been using this one for years. I made it after not being able to find a suitable siphon anywhere for 30" deep tanks. (Hint: I use the thin walled "pressure pipe" rather than than sch.40 pvc. It's designed for lawn sprinkler use, but is perfect for use in aquariums. It's lighter, cheaper, and easier to work with.)


You're going to have a really nice tank when finished.

Thanks Darrell and what a great idea and yes, the tank is slowly coming together. The wood is all submerged but still bleeding the white yucky stuff.

Toni, so glad you were able to benefit from Darrell's post. The man is a gem.

[Darrell Ward]

Always happy to help if I can. ;)

[CajunAg]

Petsmart also sells clear plastic tubing in 3' lengths (I think normally used for UGFs), I used a cut piece with a PVC elbow to make a DIY siphon. You know, just in case you actually want to see what you are sucking up

Darrell's idea for making it two pieces, for easier starting, is an excellent idea.

[Darrell Ward]

There you go, that will work as well. I used the pvc because I had it lying around, and it didn't seem necessary to me to watch poop being sucked up. Anyway, I see it as just like the ole shop vac, except it's nozzle is black. LOL!

[Second Hand Pat]

The sterbai cories, twig catfish, gold and penguin tetras came this morning. All good so far and all went into the 230. I know, I know...QT If I see any issues will remove accordingly. Also not adding discus for a while.

[Darrell Ward]

Cool!

[Second Hand Pat]

Twig Catfish are very cool fish. Please forgive the pictures.

http://i925.photobucket.com/albums/ad95/Second_Hand_Pat/IMAG0336.jpg
http://i925.photobucket.com/albums/ad95/Second_Hand_Pat/IMAG0337.jpg
http://i925.photobucket.com/albums/ad95/Second_Hand_Pat/IMAG0339.jpg

[Second Hand Pat]

Future 230 Crew

http://i925.photobucket.com/albums/ad95/Second_Hand_Pat/P1010218.jpg
http://i925.photobucket.com/albums/ad95/Second_Hand_Pat/P1010216.jpg
http://i925.photobucket.com/albums/ad95/Second_Hand_Pat/P1010215.jpg

[plecocicho]

Twig Catfish are very cool fish. Please forgive the pictures.

http://i925.photobucket.com/albums/ad95/Second_Hand_Pat/IMAG0336.jpg
http://i925.photobucket.com/albums/ad95/Second_Hand_Pat/IMAG0337.jpg
http://i925.photobucket.com/albums/ad95/Second_Hand_Pat/IMAG0339.jpg
Are those Lamonichthys?

[Darrell Ward]

I loving the "farlly" catfish! I haven't seen any for many years. How many do you have? These things are known for being lazy, so it's probably wise to feed them by putting food under their noses in a new tank for a while.

[Second Hand Pat]

Are those Lamonichthys?

These are Royal Farlowella I believe.

Darrell, I have three. They seem pretty active so far.

[Second Hand Pat]

Crappy pictures :(

http://i925.photobucket.com/albums/ad95/Second_Hand_Pat/P80400731.jpg
http://i925.photobucket.com/albums/ad95/Second_Hand_Pat/P80400741.jpg

[Darrell Ward]

Looks good. Have you considered adding a few Java Fern for a bit of color? I added a couple of very large ones to my wild tank, actually it was a monster that I split in half, and it really brightened it up. The great thing about Java Fern is that it's very hardy, and requires no special care. I just add a little Seachem Flourish after water changes, and they stay happy with the 70 watt MHs. It's going to look great when you get the discus in there.

[Second Hand Pat]

Darrel, I'm planning to add some java moss if the tiny bit I have is still alive. The Java fern can be mounted on the wood? Thanks and really looking forward to the discus also. :) But going slow and easy.

[Darrell Ward]

Darrel, I'm planning to add some java moss if the tiny bit I have is still alive. The Java fern can be mounted on the wood? Thanks and really looking forward to the discus also. :) But going slow and easy.

Yes, when attached to wood, the roots will slowly attach themselves to it.

[zchauvin]

Looking nice pat. In the first pic it looks huge and deep. Can't wait to see your wilds in there.

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[Second Hand Pat]

Looking nice pat. In the first pic it looks huge and deep. Can't wait to see your wilds in there.

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Thanks Zach

[Second Hand Pat]

So here are my first three victims for the 230. These guys have grown quite nicely, eat everything and I no longer have to dim the lights. All are 5+ inches and still have some growing to do. So what is the best way to catch them out of the 100. Drain halfway, remove wood and net??

http://i925.photobucket.com/albums/ad95/Second_Hand_Pat/P1010239.jpg
http://i925.photobucket.com/albums/ad95/Second_Hand_Pat/P1010238.jpg
http://i925.photobucket.com/albums/ad95/Second_Hand_Pat/P1010235.jpg

[Darrell Ward]

That's what I like to see, fish with some meat on their bones! Too often we see pictures of wilds that look half starved to me. LOL! Anyway, yeah, I just drain it down below half full, and remove anything they can hide behind, or get scraped up on. It makes it a bit easier. If they run from the net, I will chase them to a corner, and trap them against the glass with the net, and slide the net straight up the side.

[Second Hand Pat]

Thanks Darrell, except for my smallest tefe (who gets chased a lot) All my wilds are fairly thick.

[TURQ64]

If you can, keep the rear half of the tank covered while the chase is on with the net. I find when changing tanks, some fish always go ballistic and try to launch parallel to the back glass..saves the hassle of unsticking them from the floor!....Good luck, Gary

[Discus Origins]

I do my best work after lights are out for about an hour, sleeping fish are very easy to net and they don't freak out as much and damage themselves. move slowly on them with a net and then plop them into the new tank, they'll wake up in the morning and not even remember what happened.

[Disgirl]

I do it same as Mark does, always works well. Good looking tank Pat, and fish too!
Barb

[strawberryblonde]

I actually use a large plastic bowl to catch my big guys. The net tends to damage fins and those take days to heal, so I baby mine with the bowl trick. LOL

Just drain the tank down so they can't flee, then slowly lower a bowl into the water and let them swim into it. Fred is so curious that he actually LIKES to swim into the bowl, but the others are smarter than him and take a few minutes before they'll let me slide the bowl up beside them and scoop them out. I like to leave an inch or so of water in the bottom of the bowl when I pull it out so that I can take a minute to measure them while they lay there staring at me. =)

Oh yeah, no need to manhandle them in order to get them into the new tank if you use the bowl method, just lower the bowl into the new tank and they'll swim right on out. It's much less stressful than netting imo.

[Second Hand Pat]

Thanks Mark and Gary :)

Mark, totally darkness right...no leds.

Thanks Barb, added so small, round river rocks this morning to break up that long expanse of white sand. Gives the rams a spawning place too. Makes the tank a little more natural.

Thanks Toni, I may not quite be able to lower the water at much with wilds. When I really lower the water alot I had have them freak badly. The lower water means danger to them I suspect.

[strawberryblonde]

I hear ya Pat! I lowered mine to 40% the other day in order to scoop out the small discus (they freak out and bash themselves while trying to hide so can't go lower than that) and just removed my DW. They were pretty darned calm about the whole thing and catching them with the bowl was easy.

They swam into the bowl once it was in the tank for a few minutes. The only hard one was the little brilliant since she kept trying to swim with Big Red and I really didn't want to scoop him up too. LOL

I guess I wasn't specific enough on the height of the water in the tank, huh? There really isn't any reason to lower the height of the water in the bowl either as you pull them out unless you want to measure them, so you could easily keep it high enough so that they're upright in the bowl.

It's just what works for me and reduces flopping around and freakouts for my own little fishies... have no idea if it works for other people. =)

[Disgirl]

I also have used a bowl and if you have a clear plastic one like mine, they don't even see it coming!
Barb

[TURQ64]

As stated before in other threads, I favor my 5 qt. ice cream pails...I do resort to a net on occasion..

[Darrell Ward]

I should mention that the "container method" works fine on a lot of tanks, but could be very difficult in deep tanks unless you have very long arms, or more patience than I have. That's why I prefer large, very soft nets, with long handles for my 30" deep tanks. Using the big, soft nets, and some finesse, fish come out of the catching ordeal undamaged. Below are a few of my "weapons". Note the pvc handle extensions that allow easy work in deep tanks...

[Second Hand Pat]

Thanks Guys for the capture ideas. I was considering moving three of the tefes tonight and still have some measurable nitrites so will wait a bit longer. :(

[Darrell Ward]

Good call.

[dadecountyalan]

i either use a net or bare hands. when the water is low i just use my hands. definitely the least stressful way of doing it.

[TURQ64]

I just moved 3 dozen juvies and such with my faithful 5 qt. ice cream pail...every one basically swam right in....gotta swap out pails tho', this one's split to crap!....(they don't hold up to folding well)...This adventure was all in a 75 tho'....

[Second Hand Pat]

Nitrates are zero.:)

[Jennie]

looks awesome Pat., I saw on fb that u were doing this!

[Second Hand Pat]

Thanks Jennie, need a brighter light over the tank for decent pictures.

And thanks Alan and Gary for catching hints. I will be doing a 50% WC in the morning before moving some of the tefes over.

[Second Hand Pat]

I just moved 3 dozen juvies and such with my faithful 5 qt. ice cream pail...every one basically swam right in....gotta swap out pails tho', this one's split to crap!....(they don't hold up to folding well)...This adventure was all in a 75 tho'....

Gary, a 75 is easy to manhandle even with a 5 qt ice cream pail. You do not worry about jumping between tanks?

[Second Hand Pat]

Oh, OK. While I'm thinking about aquarium stuff, I found a good deal on lights today, even comes with the bulb. I'm thinking about getting a couple of these. That's even a better deal than the ones I got before....http://fishneedit.com/75w-metal-halide-pendant-ligh75.html

Darrell, just ordered two of these babies. Thanks.

[Darrell Ward]

Darrell, just ordered two of these babies. Thanks.

No problem. Let me know how they do. Those are a little different than the one ones I got from hellolights, but they are also less expensive. :)

[roclement]

Wow...just caught up with this whole thread! Awesome build journal! Can't wait for the next chapter!

Rod

[Second Hand Pat]

Will do Darrell :)

Thanks Rod, I have not forgotten your trip request.

[jarret8x]

Pat it looks awesome its really starting to come together.

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[TURQ64]

Gary, a 75 is easy to manhandle even with a 5 qt ice cream pail. You do not worry about jumping between tanks?

Nope..they are always calm in the bucket..it's white, maybe that zones them out...in the deeper tanks I just herd them into the bucket with a long handled net, so they're either in the bucket or the net; not much stress from chasing them....I always do it really slow, and they seem to cooperate, waddling into the bucket!