Mail order or in person?

[JustinKScott]

So I live in Washington state. Which means I'm a 4hr drive from Mac's Discus. (I've talked to them, and they do allow people to visit and select fish by hand.)

Also, SD sponsors are very appealing b/c all the rave reviews.

So here's the question. I understand Mac's doesn't have the best rep. But is it better to hand pick from Mac, or to order online sight unseen (from very reputable people)?

Also, take in to consideration that I'm new and I don't really know what type of strain I really want. (However, I have to admit to being a picky person.)

[ZX10R]

I have bought fish twice hand picking them from a seller and bought fish 3 times online. From my experience I liked hand picking a lot more you get to see what fish you are getting and see how it is acting and eating.

[scottthomas]

Buy from a sponser here and often they are willing to show you pictures of the fish you will recieve before shipping. Also, you will recieve healthy, quality fish. Just explain what you are looking for. They will find the fish you want.

[TURQ64]

Well, my take is: I used to get fish from Mac, but that was a long time ago, ...IMO, you are best off ordering from a reputable sponsor, and then you are guaranteed good service.....Gary

[Jhhnn]

All I'm sure of is that Kenny Cheung has done very well by me. I seriously doubt that I could have made better picks than he's provided- all high quality fish, no runts, stunts or dings among the 25 I've purchased in the last 2 years. They all arrived in top condition, too. Highly recommended.

[ericatdallas]

what's the gas mileage for your car? Working out the math, it comes to be about $22 per hour of driving for me. In your case, I would have to spend $88 one-way or $176 roundtrip.

Now consider the fact that you don't know what you're looking for. So even if you spent $176 to drive there to get your fish and handpick it, you might still be picking a poor quality fish. The sponsors will give handpick high quality fish for you.

Shipping from a sponsor might run you $100-150 but you save wear-and-tear and 8 hours of your life.

For me, saving 8 hours and a little cash at the same time makes it worth it just to have it shipped.

[Skip]

So here's the question. I understand Mac's doesn't have the best rep. But is it better to hand pick from Mac, or to order online sight unseen (from very reputable people)?

if you understand he doesn't have best rep.. then why buy from him!! if you are new.. you don't know what to even look for and what is a quality fish.. trust me.. as a newbie.. (11 months with discus) that has hand picked driven to dallas & waco a few times to pick up some fish. AND getting some fish from HANS.. its fun to visit other fishhouses, .i like the online/sponsor way... but i guess you have make your own decesion, its your money.. good luck

skip

[JustinKScott]

I guess my biggest hurtle at this point is I pictures online don't look like the real fish. Maybe I don't have a good imagination, but I comparing the few discus pictures to seeing them in person is too different to me.

Can I get suggestions of fish you like the best? I'm not looking for help deciding, but more for suggestions of where to start looking.

The nicest looking fish I've seen online is the green tefe. But have no idea what one'll actually look like in person.

Lastly, I've seen the "strains for newbies" thread, but too many of those fish seem to be the same fish different name.

[ericatdallas]

I've never seen a discus in person that didn't look better in person. That's not to say it's true for everyone though.

What is the first Discus you've seen in person? I imagine that's the one that makes you want to get in the hobby right? Start with that strain...

Here's my opinion on how to select strain...

Is this for the display tank in the living room? Ask the wife what colors she wants.

Is this just to watch them? Start with the cheaper strains just to get started.

Is this to eventually breed them? Get a variety and raise them to form a pair. This way, you'll get experience of raising juvies and you save money on buying them.

I've never been to Mac's but I'll bet money his discus will look better in person than what some of the sponors have in their pictures. So it's hard to compare. I don't think any of the sponsors are professional photographers.

I went to Mike Beals a couple of weeks ago and I was in awe at the discus. They look much better in person for sure. I took mine home and it looked even better (more lighting in my tank than in his basement).

Even if you picked any one store, you're going to have a hard time finding a large variety of strains. Maybe you could join the local fish club and see if other members have discus they'll let you see....

[terps]

It's always best to actually see the fish you are buying in person. Then pick out the fish you want. If you don't like anything at the place you are visiting, then don't buy.

Online photos can be deceiving. It's much easier to judge fish by a good quality video instead.

[strawberryblonde]

Here are real live pics of discus from Discus Hans (he's a sponsor). These are all domestic strains. I didn't see them before I purchased, but Hans picks out very nice fish!

This first set of pics is from the morning after they arrived at my house. They were all about 4" in size and very healthy.

They are:
1) Flachen
2) Red Turquoise
3) Blue Turquoise
4) Marlboro Red (Pigeon Blood based)
5) Red Scribbelt (hopefully, it's hard to see the tiny thumbnails..lol)

[strawberryblonde]

And here's what they look like 2 months later. Hopefully this will give you an idea of what some of the strains actually look like once they've acclimated in your tank. Maybe some other folks on here will post pics of their strains too in order to help you find ones you like best.

I love Kenny's strains...come on guys, pics please? =)

[mmorris]

if you understand he doesn't have best rep.. then why buy from him!! if you are new.. you don't know what to even look for and what is a quality fish.. trust me.. as a newbie.. (

Makes perfect sense to me. I think newbies are often dazzled by the colors and miss the finer problems, like poor shape, beaky face and stunted. It would be great if you could take an expert shopping with you, but as that is seldom possible, I recommend going with some of the sponsors. ALWAYS get photos of the fish you are buying, or at least a picture of the fish from the tank yours will be coming from.

[richiethebing]

How big did they get in two months?

[ZX10R]

If you are new to discus then I stick with my first answer pick them out in person. But I only say that if you have a good reliable source to get them from. My first time buying discus I picked them out from a breeder and that was nice because we sat down and I asked lots of questions and he helped guide me on the right path. Not saying any of the sponsors on here couldn't do that either if they have a hour to spend on the phone with someone.

[treker5]

I have never seen a show quality discus in person except from pictures. I'm from the Los Angeles area and I decided to drive up to San Francisco to meet with Kenny (Kenny's Discus) and see what is considered "nice" looking discus. He has an amazing assortment of very, very, "nice" discus and all of his tanks were exceptional clean. He was very professional and took the time to answer all my questions and help me decide which discus I wanted... I brought home eight (hehehe); 1 Albino, 1 Tropical Red, 1RGD, 2 Bulldog snakeskins, 2 Eruptions, and 1 Checkerboard all around 3.5 inches - 4 inches. I personally like to see what I'm buying but from this experience with Kenny I have no problem buying from him online.

[strawberryblonde]

How big did they get in two months?

The largest is 6 1/4 inches, the smallest is 4 1/2 inches. The 3 in between are all over 5 1/2, but not yet 6".

[Skip]

if you don't know what to look for, whats the point of picking it out yourself.. LOL .. you can get a stunted low quality discus.. and you don't know any better.. go with a sponsor or not.. thats up to you :)

[strawberryblonde]

I have never seen a show quality discus in person except from pictures. I'm from the Los Angeles area and I decided to drive up to San Francisco to meet with Kenny (Kenny's Discus) and see what is considered "nice" looking discus. He has an amazing assortment of very, very, "nice" discus and all of his tanks were exceptional clean. He was very professional and took the time to answer all my questions and help me decide which discus I wanted... I brought home eight (hehehe); 1 Albino, 1 Tropical Red, 1RGD, 2 Bulldog snakeskins, 2 Eruptions, and 1 Checkerboard all around 3.5 inches - 4 inches. I personally like to see what I'm buying but from this experience with Kenny I have no problem buying from him online.

That works so long as you live close enough to one of our trusted sponsors to actually go see the fish and buy them. ;)

The rest of us have to rely on the ability of the sponsors to choose good fish for us, or take our chances with local breeders or <gasp> a LFS. (Repeat after me... "No Local Fish Stores...No local fish stores")

I chose to purchase from Discus Hans because he had the strains I like and well, he's dutch! Oh and he's quite a funny guy too. He was very patient with me, spent lots and lots of time answering my emails and I couldn't be happier with my discus. They're very healthy, very pretty and have grown into some really nice shapes.

I've heard tons of good things about Mike Beals and Kenny's discus too. I'd trust them in a heartbeat. =)

[Al M.]

I've been to Macs, it was quite awhile ago, I did not go home with anything...... I have and would order fish again from Kenny and Mike Beals any time and trust they're jugdement to hand pick fish for me........that sould say something about all of the three sellers...... tough to hand pick fish if theres nothing that you want to pick.

[j_li8]

I have done both but I like to hand pick myself. Part of it is, like yourself, i am very picky. The other half is that I am spoiled by having Mr. Kenny Cheung only a few minutes drive away. :D If you tell him what you want he will do his best to fill your request. By that i mean, for what ever strain you select, if shape, size, pattern, etc. is most important to you that is what he will look for in selecting your fish.

[Sean Buehrle]

Hans sent me these fish on friday sight unseen and im really happy with them, ive had them 4 days and im betting they lay eggs tomorrow.

They wont leave that cone alone and thier spawning tubes are out.

Problem is that the fish are so big they are shoving the cone all over the tank. I need a bigger cone or suction cups. LOL.

I didnt have any problem trusting hans to send nice fish, cause they are all nice.
Its hard taking an accurate pic of fish with a phone, but believe me they are kicka$$ in person.

Just pick a reliable sponser and have em shipped, save your gas money.

http://tapatalk.com/mu/4badb28a-97eb-cfb3.jpghttp://tapatalk.com/mu/4badb28a-9871-aa19.jpghttp://tapatalk.com/mu/4badb28a-9b41-4982.jpg


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[Skip]

sean.. are these the german leopards?

[Sean Buehrle]

sean.. are these the german leopards?

Yep what do you think? I love em, they are pretty friendly too. Im trying to take some accurate pics so as to not get hans mad at me, LOL they are going to spawn pretty soon.


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[Skip]

i have some F1 German Leopards.. i am growing out.. can't wait for the spots to show up.. :)

[Discus-n00b]

Buy from a sponsor here no doubt, hands down. You can't handpick yourself, but you can express what you would like to see in a fish to the sponsor. In many cases I've had Kenny advise me on fish to choose and he was never wrong. He's even gone as far as suggesting lower priced strains because it was more of what I was looking for, he wasn't pushing me into a sale for the highest priced item. I've had fish from Hans, Kenny, and Dan (Elite Aquaria) and have been happy with them all. I trust them. You may pay a bit for shipping (enough for another discus or two) but its worth it to buy quality. Not sure what kind of car you drive, but a 4hr trip is at least one tank of gas in my Jeep. And that one tank of gas is at least 50% of what the shipping would cost. Not to mention, I can have my fish delivered right to my door without having to go anywhere. Just a personal preference.

[AKRON AWOL]

not to go too off-topic here but does anyone here know of a very reputable breeder near northern chicago?

[Skip]

not to go too off-topic here but does anyone here know of a very reputable breeder near northern chicago?

BILL

[zimmjeff]

do what warlock says. always.

[roclement]

This is such a a easy question! I can't believe we are on page two of the thread!!! :)

If you have a reputable seller near you that can save you on shipping while providing you with good quality fish and the pleasure of browsing their stock personally, go with it.
If you do not have that near by, order from a reputable seller on-line that will make you happy!

Never buy fish from a shady place just because you like seeing them in the tanks, even if they look healthy and eat in front of you...who knows what they are now exposed to, I don't care what they tell you about the source or how they are great at what they do!

I can't believe that with the internet and such a great resource as this forum, people STILL go to LFS or to bad breeders/sellers! (not directed at the OP)

Rodrigo

[kevin joseph]

you cant go wrong with the sponsers and there are a bunch of great breeders on this forum selling amazing fish. if you cant hand pick from those choices order from them.

[JustinKScott]

Well. Never mind.

My wife returned from Portland with 4 new juvies from the LFS. 2BT & 2BlueSnakeskin.

[Sean Buehrle]

LOL

Well pal looks like she took control of the situtation and got you off the fence. Ask her if you can post some pics now : )


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[Keith Perkins]

Well. Never mind.

My wife returned from Portland with 4 new juvies from the LFS. 2BT & 2BlueSnakeskin.

LOL, or at least that's what they called them at the LFS. Good luck with the fish and the marriage. :)

[TURQ64]

Simple..Have her join the forum to ask questions about raising HER Discus!......Gary

[Skip]

yes.. those are HER fish. LOL

[Sean Buehrle]

Im just razzin ya, hey at least she got you some fish. Looking forward to seeing them .


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[JustinKScott]

Well here they are! My new discus!

They are out of the bag! I'm extremely happy with their personality. None of them are hiding or shying away from me & already are eating bloodworms & prime reef!

I did decided not to qt them. I thought it was riskier based on the short notice & my qt tank is taking care of a sick angel.

My original turq immediately took to them. They are like one happy family!!!

[JustinKScott]

More pix!

Looking do honest opinions of them & suggestions for helping them along.

They'll be primarily on prime reef flakes, beef heart. I'll get an auto feeder for the flakes 4x day. Hand feed the beef and BW.
Tank params: Temp 82F, daily WC, 6.6ph

[Sean Buehrle]

LOL

They are just happy as clams down there in those plants aint they?

Well thats cool, they look great and will be having a blast in thier new home.

Keep an eye on them because of the no qt and possible stress induced illness. Hopefully everything will turn out good.


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[geodehunter]

Looking good!!! Have fun enjoying your new discus. :)

[MK48]

In my opinion, purchase in-person is always benefit comparing with mail order if driving distance is still within one or two hours. you can save bundle in shipping cost and you get to pick your own fish. The sponsors pictures are always pretty and sometimes can be deceiving. From the same group of fish, there are variation in quality. you might not be the lucky one to receive the best one. During shipping from Asia to here, some discus are in stress, some are not. Some might die after couples of days or stop eating. If you buy it in-person, you can observe and make you best judgement. Sponsors are in business to make profit.

[AKRON AWOL]

yeah I agree, sure they probably do sell high quality fish but it's just not the same as you seeing it in person and picking it out youself :)

[Skip]

During shipping from Asia to here, some discus are in stress, some are not. Some might die after couples of days or stop eating. If you buy it in-person, you can observe and make you best judgement. Sponsors are in business to make profit.

hmmm.. strong words.. have you experienced this issue..

[strawberryblonde]

Well of course the sponsors here are in business to make a profit...and so are the local fish store owners! The sad part, in my experience, is that most local fish store owners don't take proper care of the discus they receive and then mark up the prices to ridiculous amounts in order to make a profit.

We have a LFS an hour from where I live that sells discus. They advertise that they get fish from Discus Hans, even though they don't have any of his strains in their tanks. They sell 2.5" - 3" skinny discus for a $60 - $70 each!

For me it was a no brainer. I was not about to pay that kind of money for fish who looked like skinny footballs. So I researched the sponsors here on this forum and chose the one who had strains that I liked. I spent $50 - $60 each on 4" discus who are nicely shaped, fat and very healthy. It was totally worth it for me. I got personal attention, lots of help, answers to my questions and wonderful followup service from my sponsor. He's awesome!

So if you're one of the lucky ones and have a local fish store nearby with really good discus at reasonable prices, go for it! But don't knock the sponsors on these forums who work so hard to provide high quality fish at reasonable prices.

[ZX10R]

hmmm.. strong words.. have you experienced this issue..

I have but won't name any names

[JustinKScott]

Guys Stop!! This is a happy day! discus-day!! Yeah!

No matter where you get baby animals, you'll have the good and the bad in the litter. That's true of sponsors and LFS.

Over dinner, my wife told me some of the reasons she bought discus yesterday.

Firstly, TheWetSpot (LFS) apparently doesn't import discus, they have their own local breeder. Although that statement doesn't mean the fish are going to be perfect, it makes me feel better that they didn't come from some Discus-Mill.

The LFS is feeding them several times a day, and feeding live black worm, beef heart, and flakes.

They are aged where they shouldn't have color & they don't have color.

None have chipped eye.

What do you think? Their eyes don't look too big to me..

Finally, no Discus in their tanks were NOT scared of anything. This is obviously true, because none have gone into hiding in my tank. Some are bigger than my discus, and he is already a part of their community. They immediately (~15min after they were in my tank) started eating flakes and beefheart! No one was afraid of my 2.7w/g t5ho lights!

The few steps I did take when introducing them is:

1) I did 50% WC on each discus bag every 25 minutes until the ph matched. This gave everyone plenty of time to see each other but not be able to touch each other.
2) I re-scaped my aquarium before releasing them, bc I wanted the tank to look new and unfamiliar to everyone especially my original discus. I was trying to squash territory claims.

One more photo of the entire 80g tank! The plants are all new so they will grow up soon enough. They have co2, ferts, and plenty of light.

[ZX10R]

Guys Stop!! This is a happy day! discus-day!! Yeah!

No matter where you get baby animals, you'll have the good and the bad in the litter. That's true of sponsors and LFS.

Your right sorry about your thread getting of course and I agree with you 100%. I am not so sure I am sold on the eye to body ratio thing until they get older. I can show you a picture of my blue diamond when I got him and his eyes look huge compaired to his body. But he grew out and is now around 6" so when it comes to juvies to me time will tell what they grow up to be. Hope you enjoy them they can get addicting ;)

[Bud Smith]

Another view
Heres the rub
Do I buy off of a local LFS and maybe get one or two extra discus because of not paying shipping or do I buy off of a high quality vendor on line and pay shipping and maybe not buy as many as I want
Usually newbies will ask themselves this question - money is always an issue especially when you are first starting out in the hobby
My experience - buy off of a highly reccommended vendor by those who have alot of experience in the hobby -be able to see a pic of the discus you want to buy or see the discus in person - deal with a vendor who will discuss all aspects of my purchase before and after - a vendor who will seems to really care about the hobby and who is polite and professional
Now with that being said - there are no LFS in my area that meets that criteria - the only place I have found vendors who do meet that criteria is through this forum - I have the luxury of only driving a hour and half to Mike Beal's house
I have went both ways and I have learned - do not sacrifice quality for money

[ericatdallas]

Some might die after couples of days or stop eating. If you buy it in-person, you can observe and make you best judgement. Sponsors are in business to make profit.

Yeah, the analogy might go amok here, but it's similar to why people buy Toyota and Honda over some other car brand. Or why people pay a premium for BMW, Mercedes, etc. Sometimes it's the name that's the draw, but it's the consistent quality and reputation of good customer service that keeps them in business. If Toyota suddenly made crappy cars or you saw BMWs littering the side of the road, those companies would stop profiting. It's why some people buy Apple instead of eMachines. Some of it is perceived superiority, some of it is actual superiority, and others it's consistent quality of service and responsiveness to customer needs. But perceived quality has to be backed with actual quality over time and that's what the sponsors have demonstrated here.

There was a sponsor here that got thrashed (won't go in the reasons if it was right or wrong, mainly b/c I neither followed it or understood the complaints but also b/c it's not relevant either) but that sponsor withdrew their support for this forum (and I think most people know who I'm talking about). It's a tough crowd here. All the sponsors here have to worry about their fish being posted on here and waiting for the "OMFG, where did you get that fish? What's wrong with <insert fish part here>? It can't be from <insert sponsor>!"

The reason the regulars here idolize the sponsors is because time-after-time they consistently deliver quality of product and service. That's not to say you can make everyone happy or never make a mistake. Look on eBay, people will have 50,000 positive comments and a handful of negative. That's a pretty good track record. If the sponsors were selling on eBay, I would bet money they would be in the 99th percentile.

Speaking from experience, the sponsors care about their business. They're not here to make a quick buck but want to making a living off their business for the long-haul. Speaking from anecdotal evidence (from hanging out in this board for a while) you can see the same thing.

Of course, if there is a sponsor (or -any- reputable seller, because there are some that aren't sponsors) in the local area, go and visit them.

[ericatdallas]

I have went both ways and I have learned - do not sacrifice quality for money

+1, but definitely as a newbie, I made those same decisions about to buy mail or in person. I was reluctant to buy from the LFS because of costs more than quality and it was actually and LFS that told me not to buy the one they had on stock. The guy even pointed out to me what was wrong with the discus and told me that if I really wanted one, that I should wait until he gets a new shipment next week. While I was waiting, I found Mike Beal's website -but- he didn't have fish in stock at the time. Did more search and I found a local breeder. I don't regret buying from the local breeder but I learned a lot about raising juvies and lost a lot, but fortunately the local breeder was much cheaper.

Right now, I have fish from local breeder, one from a sponsor via a member of this forum, one from a sponsor, and I have plans to order more from sponsors once I have room (and I'm comfortable with doing it without seeing the fish). I haven't had a bad experience from any of them. I do know had I bought it from the LFS (I have another thread with pictures) I probably would be disappointed at myself for buying from LFS (especially since they charge 2-3x what the sponsors charge even with shipping considered).

A great resource is your local fish club and craigslist. IMO, the local club is a great place to start b/c people are going to treat fellow members right if you take the time to talk to the seller.

[richiethebing]

I did mail order and it was ok.

[alan j t]

i have seen macs discus, almost the same price as simplys sponsors, but simply discus sponsors are worth it.

[YSS]

I live close enough to Hans so I drive there when I get fish from him. But I ask him which fish I should get and he picks them out for me. He is the expert and he knows better. You may think you know what you are doing and think you are picking out the best discus, but if you are not a seasoned discus pro, you are sadly mistaken. By the way, those fish look like Stendker discus, but I could be wrong.

[scottthomas]

Hans sent me these fish on friday sight unseen and im really happy with them, ive had them 4 days and im betting they lay eggs tomorrow.

They wont leave that cone alone and thier spawning tubes are out.

Problem is that the fish are so big they are shoving the cone all over the tank. I need a bigger cone or suction cups. LOL.

I didnt have any problem trusting hans to send nice fish, cause they are all nice.
Its hard taking an accurate pic of fish with a phone, but believe me they are kicka$$ in person.

Just pick a reliable sponser and have em shipped, save your gas money.

http://tapatalk.com/mu/4badb28a-97eb-cfb3.jpghttp://tapatalk.com/mu/4badb28a-9871-aa19.jpghttp://tapatalk.com/mu/4badb28a-9b41-4982.jpg


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Nice, I didnt know Hans had leopards?

[Skip]

i think the leopard line is a BETA VERSION of fish for now :)

[farebox]

Trust an simplydiscus sponsor for sure if buying online, I'm a newbie too and have been burned a few times for receiving lesser quality fish,from the LFS and online (whom will not name here). Recently made my first purchase from Hans, and totally satisfied. If you live in Austin, TX. contact HAW: http://www.houstonaquariumwarehouse.com .
On the way back from LA., stopped off in Houston to check out the fish. Really impressed and got 2 very nice fish for an good price, which ended pairing, spawned twice already since getting May 19th. Get good quality fish and you'll have less problems to deal with. The fish will be happy and a joy to keep.
farebox

[ericatdallas]

Trust an simplydiscus sponsor for sure if buying online, I'm a newbie too and have been burned a few times for receiving lesser quality fish,from the LFS and online (whom will not name here). Recently made my first purchase from Hans, and totally satisfied. If you live in Austin, TX. contact HAW: http://www.houstonaquariumwarehouse.com .
On the way back from LA., stopped off in Houston to check out the fish. Really impressed and got 2 very nice fish for an good price, which ended pairing, spawned twice already since getting May 19th. Get good quality fish and you'll have less problems to deal with. The fish will be happy and a joy to keep.
farebox

Houston Aquarium Warehouse is a sponsor and ships, so you don't have to live in TX to buy fish from them. I also see him sell/advertise on Aquabid.
http://forum.simplydiscus.com/forumdisplay.php?78-Gulf-Coast-Discus-%28Daniel-Villasenor%29-Houston-Texas