180 Gallon renovation (Discus style)

[Dieselfool]

I've been thinking about setting up a nice discus tank for some time now. A few of months ago I decided to make it happen. I started collecting all the pieces I was going to need. During this time I started selling off all my African Cichlids in preperation to sell my 125 and replace it with the used 180 gallon I bought. Well I finally sold all the Cichlids and the tank, now it's time to start putting this all together. Now, I've never kept Discus before, but have been trolling these forums for quite some time now. So I'd appreciate any advice and opinions on my set up. I'll be documenting everything from start to finish (as if we ever finish. LOL) with lots of pics along the way. Feel free to chime in.
I'll start with the tank that needed to have all the chalking stripped and replaced.

http://i630.photobucket.com/albums/uu22/dieselfool/180%20Gallon%20rebuild/IMG_1060.jpg

http://i630.photobucket.com/albums/uu22/dieselfool/180%20Gallon%20rebuild/IMG_1068.jpg

http://i630.photobucket.com/albums/uu22/dieselfool/180%20Gallon%20rebuild/IMG_1174.jpg

It was a bit nerve racking trying to get it all out without damaging the seal between the glass plates. I then used painters tape to make some nice straight lines and commenced chalking. Now....take your time, make it real nice. Thats it. Ahhh, looks good, now remove tape to reveal a nice straight line. AAAHHHHHHHHH! Rule #1 when chalking, take your time, but do it quickly. When I removed the tape, the 1st bead that I laid down had already started to cure and the top skin pulled off with the tape and made a complete mess of it all. Now wait a couple of days, remove the new chalking and start over.
The finished product.

http://i630.photobucket.com/albums/uu22/dieselfool/180%20Gallon%20rebuild/IMG_1830-1.jpg

http://i630.photobucket.com/albums/uu22/dieselfool/180%20Gallon%20rebuild/IMG_1831.jpg

I'm planning on doing this tank to look real natural, but I don't want to call it a biotope, because I'm going to try to keep my Clown Loaches in this tank as well. I just love the little guys, and really hope they can work with the Discus. Some say yes, some say no. I'll give it a try though.
A couple more pics of various things.
The gear. Going to run the two 5s, and keep the 4 as a back-up.

http://i630.photobucket.com/albums/uu22/dieselfool/180%20Gallon%20rebuild/IMG_1828.jpg

Lots of driftwood. A 55 gallon stuffed full of it. It's been soaking for over two months now and still has lots of tannins comming out.

http://i630.photobucket.com/albums/uu22/dieselfool/180%20Gallon%20rebuild/IMG_1179.jpg

http://i630.photobucket.com/albums/uu22/dieselfool/180%20Gallon%20rebuild/IMG_1177.jpg

150lbs of pool fliter sand. Might need only 100lbs, but thought if I need more, I want it from the same batch, just in case of color differences.

http://i630.photobucket.com/albums/uu22/dieselfool/180%20Gallon%20rebuild/IMG_1822.jpg

http://i630.photobucket.com/albums/uu22/dieselfool/180%20Gallon%20rebuild/IMG_1825-1.jpg

Thats all for tonight. Well.....whadda think?
Al.

[rubinsteinnyc]

where is this driftwood from?

[zchauvin]

I think it will look great. It will surely be filtered well.... 800 gallons worth for a 180g tank!!

[Dieselfool]

From a near by lake. All down on the ground and very much dead and dryed out. My Daughter in-law has had the same stuff in her Angel tank for some months now without any problems.

I'm a firm beliver in over filtering. LOL. Just gonna run the two 5s. The 4 will be a back-up.

[Darrell Ward]

From a near by lake. All down on the ground and very much dead and dryed out. My Daughter in-law has had the same stuff in her Angel tank for some months now without any problems.

I'm a firm beliver in over filtering. LOL. Just gonna run the two 5s. The 4 will be a back-up.

It's OK to over filter, but two FX5's on a 180 discus tank is silly. You'll understand this on your own in time. Also, 50 lbs. of sand is plenty. You only want a very thin layer, just enough to barely hide the glass in a discus tank. A thin layer will be much easier to maintain. I see lots of people on the forums making this mistake. I'm telling you these things out of experience, not to criticize. Discus tanks should be set up differently from Africans. The only things these two fish share are scales,fins, and gills. Good luck on your project!

[DLock3d]

It's OK to over filter, but two FX5's on a 180 discus tank is silly. You'll understand this on your own in time. Also, 50 lbs. of sand is plenty. You only want a very thin layer, just enough to barely hide the glass in a discus tank. A thin layer will be much easier to maintain. I'm telling you these things out of experience, not to criticize. Discus tanks should be set up differently from Africans. The only things these two fish share are scales,fins, and gills. Good luck on your project!

Just out of curiosity. Is there any disadvantage to over filteration? I guess I'm asking what he'll "find out".

[Darrell Ward]

Excessive current, and with proper water changes, filters that never have very much to filter. They basically just circulate water. It's a waste.

[Dieselfool]

Excessive current, and with proper water changes, filters that never have very much to filter. They basically just circulate water. It's a waste.

Yes I know it'll be way over filtered, but it's the water circulation that I'm looking for. I don't want any dead spots, so instead of powerheads moving the water around I'm just going to set-up the 5s as I already have them. If it seems to be too much flow for Discus, I can always slow the flow down a bit.
As far as the depth of the sand goes, I'm going to need it somewhat deeper as I have a huge amount of driftwood going in and most of it is going to be weighted down by some thick slate attached to the bottom And it's going to need to be covered. And yes I do plan on moving the sand around regularly to stop any gas pocketes from forming.
What does anybody think of this water purifier for doing W/Cs? I've never used it. The guy a bought the tank off of threw it, and a boat load other gear into the deal.

http://i630.photobucket.com/albums/uu22/dieselfool/180%20Gallon%20rebuild/IMG_1834.jpg

[TURQ64]

I'd love to have all those tannins for my Heckel's! Nice pile of driftwood........Looks like an awful puny 'purifier'..but that's JMO....Gary

[Dieselfool]

I'd love to have all those tannins for my Heckel's! Nice pile of driftwood........Looks like an awful puny 'purifier'..but that's JMO....Gary

The instructins say it'll produce 10Gs p/hr.

[CajunAg]

The instructins say it'll produce 10Gs p/hr.

Man, if only that meant money and not gallons of water...

[Dieselfool]

Man, if only that meant money and not gallons of water...

10 g/p/h.....there, fixed it. LOL.

[jcardona1]

I think two FX5s for a tank that size is perfect. Their flow is reduced dramatically when you fill it up with media. Fluval says one FX5 is enough for a 400g tank. I don't buy that for a second. I'd say an FX5 can handle a 135-150g tank, max.

[TURQ64]

You'll be changing many pounds of resin with the little buggar, .....you can lead a horse to water, but....nevermind, the economy needs people buying repeat items....

[rcdriftguy]

nice!

[Darrell Ward]

I think two FX5s for a tank that size is perfect. Their flow is reduced dramatically when you fill it up with media. Fluval says one FX5 is enough for a 400g tank. I don't buy that for a second. I'd say an FX5 can handle a 135-150g tank, max.

If you can't make a single FX5 work great on a 180, then you're doing something terribly wrong! LOL!



You'll be changing many pounds of resin with the little buggar, .....you can lead a horse to water, but....nevermind, the economy needs people buying repeat items....

You got that right. Those things won't filter enough water to fill a "normal" tank, before needing a cartridge replacement. People usually buy them for 10 gal. tanks and such.

[jcardona1]

If you can't make a single FX5 work great on a 180, then you're doing something terribly wrong! LOL!

With the way most folks like to stock their tanks, I don't see the problem with more flow and mechanical filtration. Calling it a silly waste is a little ridiculous.

[Dieselfool]

You'll be changing many pounds of resin with the little buggar, .....you can lead a horse to water, but....nevermind, the economy needs people buying repeat items....

Didn't say I was gonna use it. Just wanted some opinions. It came with the tank. But I'm starting to get the drift that you guys think it might be a tad bit on the small size. LOL.

[Dieselfool]

With the way most folks like to stock their tanks, I don't see the problem with more flow and mechanical filtration. Calling it a silly waste is a little ridiculous.

Thanks J. The more the better in my opinion. I have'm, why not use'm? I can always turn them down if need be, can only turn one filter up so far. LOL.
The only work on the tank I managed today was to get the back painted. Too damn hot for anything else. I even managed to open my wallet with a crowbar and turn on the a/c today.

P.S. How do you do multible quotes in one post?
Thanks.
Al.

[Darrell Ward]

Double and triple the amount of filtration needed is a bit silly in my book, when one good water change would do a much better job in the first place. "Whatever turns you on", as they say... :D

[Len]

I have that same water purifier, and it wasnt worth the effort or messf. It is slowwwwww and the hose pops off the tap attachment and you get water squirting everywhere. I hope yours works better, but until you're sure -- Don't turn your back on it. I'm curious to see all that driftwood in such a large tank. Should look really good.

[Dieselfool]

I have that same water purifier, and it wasnt worth the effort or messf. It is slowwwwww and the hose pops off the tap attachment and you get water squirting everywhere. I hope yours works better, but until you're sure -- Don't turn your back on it. I'm curious to see all that driftwood in such a large tank. Should look really good.

Yeah, doesn't look like I'm gonna use it, judging from the opinions here.

[Dieselfool]

Well, I managed to get some work done on the tank today.

1st. I got stoned.
http://i630.photobucket.com/albums/uu22/dieselfool/180%20Gallon%20rebuild/IMG_0018.jpg

Then I had afternoon wood.
http://i630.photobucket.com/albums/uu22/dieselfool/180%20Gallon%20rebuild/IMG_0021.jpg

But I did manage to get it filled up. Yup, four hrs now and it's still holding water. LOL. Touch wood.
Got the two FX shopvacs up and running as well.

Sorry about the quality of the pics. Water is still a little cloudy.
http://i630.photobucket.com/albums/uu22/dieselfool/180%20Gallon%20rebuild/IMG_0026.jpg
http://i630.photobucket.com/albums/uu22/dieselfool/180%20Gallon%20rebuild/IMG_0027.jpg

And a little mood lighting.
http://i630.photobucket.com/albums/uu22/dieselfool/180%20Gallon%20rebuild/IMG_0033.jpg
http://i630.photobucket.com/albums/uu22/dieselfool/180%20Gallon%20rebuild/IMG_0036.jpg

[DLock3d]

The lighting is sweeeeeeet. I'm jealous.

[strawberryblonde]

Dadgummit, why does everyone else come up with awesome scape layouts without even working at it...huh? huh??? LOL

I swear I've rescaped mine more than ...ummmm, nebbermind, won't continue with where that thought was heading, but anyways, no matter how I arrange my tank it still looks barren. Yours looks SO COOL!!!

I even started siphoning out sand today because I'm sick and tired of it getting in the way of my vacuuming. Pesky little grains, grrrrrr. Now to find me some cool DW and figure out how to stuff it into the tank so that it doesn't collect dirt and crud and also doesn't poke out a discus eye. <sigh>

Oh sorry, started whining for a minute there. Just wanted to tell you that I love the look of your tank so far. =)

[Harriett]

Deisel--
I have a tank set up similar to yours. It's a 180g. I use one FX5 and a Cascade 1200 canister filter. [In my experience/estimation, one 5 is enough for a 125-150g tank on its own only--I generally like to underpopulate and overfilter anyhow, but it did seem one FX5 was just not quite there--I ran it solo for several months]. I built a nice spray bar for the 5--it sits parrallel to and near the bottom of the tank at the back, and produces nice easy water movement up the back wall and across the top. The Cascade spray bar is set close to the surface at one end and shoots down the length of the tank at the surface. All in all, no dead spots and good gas exchange. I have about 150lb of pool sand [this tank was planted for years until recently]. The depth of sand is somewhere between 2-3+ inches, there's plenty of drift wood. I also have a fondness for clown loaches. I started with 6 but when a nearby 80g failed, I threw another 5 in the big tank and they've all been in there for a couple of years now. They never bother the discus, there have been zero issues. Those first 6 loaches are now 11 years old. I clean the sand to its depth with the python; I do an 80% water change once a week and that's it--there are only 7-8 adult discus in the tank along with some wild Leopoldi angels now and it seems good. Decided to do a smaller dedicated plant tank for a while.
Best regards and I hope you enjoy your project!
Harriett

[Dieselfool]

Thanks Harriett. I'd really like to see a pic of that set up if you have one. I also went with the 3 full bags of sand (150lbs), like I said in a previous post, "lots of thick stone that needed to be covered. I'm going to be building a spraybar for the 5 as well. Right now I have it set up with one at each end, spraying across the length of the tank. One side the intake is down low, and output up high, then the opposite on the other end. Trying to create a circular flow. But I think a spraybar will be much better for gas exchange. I'm glad to hear another success story about C/Ls and Discus. I have ten 2"-3" right now and they're very entertaining. They, and six 2"-3" Redhead Geos are currently being housed in my Daughter in-law's 100 Angel tank. I'd really hate to get rid of any of them. So....how about a pic of that tank?

[Justinwong]

lookss like its gonna turn out amazing, cant wait to see the finished product

[Dieselfool]

Dadgummit, why does everyone else come up with awesome scape layouts without even working at it...huh? huh??? LOL

I swear I've rescaped mine more than ...ummmm, nebbermind, won't continue with where that thought was heading, but anyways, no matter how I arrange my tank it still looks barren. Yours looks SO COOL!!!

I even started siphoning out sand today because I'm sick and tired of it getting in the way of my vacuuming. Pesky little grains, grrrrrr. Now to find me some cool DW and figure out how to stuff it into the tank so that it doesn't collect dirt and crud and also doesn't poke out a discus eye. <sigh>

Oh sorry, started whining for a minute there. Just wanted to tell you that I love the look of your tank so far. =)

Thanks Strawberry.

[Harriett]

Thanks Harriett. I'd really like to see a pic of that set up if you have one. I also went with the 3 full bags of sand (150lbs), like I said in a previous post, "lots of thick stone that needed to be covered. I'm going to be building a spraybar for the 5 as well. Right now I have it set up with one at each end, spraying across the length of the tank. One side the intake is down low, and output up high, then the opposite on the other end. Trying to create a circular flow. But I think a spraybar will be much better for gas exchange. I'm glad to hear another success story about C/Ls and Discus. I have ten 2"-3" right now and they're very entertaining. They, and six 2"-3" Redhead Geos are currently being housed in my Daughter in-law's 100 Angel tank. I'd really hate to get rid of any of them. So....how about a pic of that tank?

Diesel--
Hi, so sorry, I haven't ever masterd the posting of photos! PM me your email address and I can try to send you a shot from my cell phone or two--I pretty much explained the set up in my post, though.. I like the idea of your circular flow plan--though the 5 shoots a lot of water around and I would have some concern about blowing the fish around with that system--that's why I arranged mine to run up the back wall and for a smaller canister to spit across the top of the water [gas exchange]...
The largest of my clowns are probably 6+ inches and then the second batch are about 4" I suppose.

The 10 clowns should all do fine in your 180. Do you know they potentially live for 30 years? Largest in a private aquarium I know of are about 12-13" but at 10-11 years, mine are half that size, as said. Which is fine by me!
Geos are fairly aggressive eaters and in those numbers you would want to watch them--esp when they get to breeding size, since they will probably hassle the crap out of each other [males]? Man, do they do a nice job of sifting the sand though! With the circular flow you are setting up, you would probably be able to keep the tank bottom cleaner with them in there, putting the ditrius in suspension.
With the spray bar, remember that the larger the holes in the bar, the slower the current produced, and so the smaller, the stronger the current. I had to redo mine to get what I wanted, in the beginning!
Best regards,
Harriett

[Dieselfool]

Thanks Harriet. I've built spraybars in the past and I've always started out with a small drill bit and just go progressly larger until I get the pressure I like. The pressure that the two output one are throwing right now doesn't seem that strong, in fact, the 1st. tenants in the tank seem to relish playing in the current. Don't think it'll be a problem for adult Discus. As far as the Geos and C/Ls go, they're in my Daughter in-law's 110 Angel tank right now and aren't bothering any of them. In fact the Geos have already spawned once. The lone female had a mouth full for about two weeks but must have spit them early. No babies.

Two days and the water is starting to get nice and clear.

http://i630.photobucket.com/albums/uu22/dieselfool/180%20Gallon%20rebuild/IMG_0041.jpg

The 1st tenants. 12 Black Tetras.

http://i630.photobucket.com/albums/uu22/dieselfool/180%20Gallon%20rebuild/IMG_0044.jpg

[MikeF]

Looking good.
MikeF

[Dieselfool]

Looking good.
MikeF

Thanks Mike. I'm going to pick up the PVC to build my spraybar today.

[Chunks]

Great job so far! Love the scape! Are you planing on having any plants?

I have to builed a spray bar soon so please post details about it, to others this might be old hat but I'm keen to know details. I have to build a spray bar for my 2000gph sump pump.

[calihawker]

Great job! The verticle driftwood idea is something I havent seen before. Very cool. Looking forward to your completion. That looks like a steel framed stand? Could I perhaps get a good pic as I am making one for my tank? Thanks!

Steve

[Dieselfool]

Hey Chunks. Building a spraybar is really quite straight forward. Your going to need 3 90 degree elbows. If you use threaded, as in the pic below, your going to need the threaded male adapters to conect them together. If you use the glue together pieces, them you'll just need to buy a little bit more of the pipe to be used as the actual spraybar, and cut peices to join the elbows. The rest of the pipe you buy will be cut to your desired length and capped on the end. Now get out your trusty drill, and drill a straight line of holes along the lenght of the pipe and "vola" you have a spraybar. A word of caution, (the voice of expearence here) start drilling holes smaller then you think you'll actualy need, if there's too much pressure, then just move up to the next size drillbit. You can't "undrill" a hole. LOL. As seen in the pic below on the left side, you'll also need a barbed adapter for your pump output hose to be clamped to. And unseen on the right side of the 90s, is the invisable straight piece of pipe with a line of holes drilled in it and a cap on the end. LOL.

Hope this helps.
http://i630.photobucket.com/albums/uu22/dieselfool/IMG_0061.jpg

Hey Cali, there is actualy a wood stand under this tank that the previous owner had built.

[Darrell Ward]

Great job so far! Love the scape! Are you planing on having any plants?

I have to builed a spray bar soon so please post details about it, to others this might be old hat but I'm keen to know details. I have to build a spray bar for my 2000gph sump pump.

You're gonna need a ball valve on that pump to throttle it down unless that tank is huge. A good quality 2000 gph pump should create large currents in tanks up to around 400 gals or so.

[Dieselfool]

You're gonna need a ball valve on that pump to throttle it down unless that tank is huge. A good quality 2000 gph pump should create large currents in tanks up to around 400 gals or so.

This would probibly be a good investment. Although I had a Mag18 (1800gph) in my sump on my 125, and I ran it wide open all the time. Mind you that was with African Cichlids and not Discus. 1800 gph was not the true flow. The manuel stated that it pumped 1425 gph at a 4' head, then add in the multiple 90 degree turns and it was really down to about 1200 gps. I did a somewhat un-scientfic experement with a 5 gallon bucket and my watch to get the gph. But yes, for the $10 it will cost for a ball vavle, it's a worthy investment.
Al.

[Chunks]

Thanks guys for the help. This really helps, the concept of building a spray is fine, I have already had to do a bit of PVC pipe work with the return piping so the construction part should be fine. What do you think to the idea of having more than one line of holes? For example having one line of holes face down into the tank and another set face straight ahead? The more holes will dissipate the flow right? Same amount of flow but with less force?

Should I run the bar across the back of the tank at the top or across the side at the top? Thank you for your picture, from what I gather by the way the 90deg elbows are facing is that yours is going to run along the top on the side, hence shooting water down the length of the tank. I guess I have answered my own question, but still whats best? Spray bar on the back or on the side to prevent dead zones?

Thats enough for now, sorry to hijack your thread.

[Dieselfool]

Thanks guys for the help. This really helps, the concept of building a spray is fine, I have already had to do a bit of PVC pipe work with the return piping so the construction part should be fine. What do you think to the idea of having more than one line of holes? For example having one line of holes face down into the tank and another set face straight ahead? The more holes will dissipate the flow right? Same amount of flow but with less force?

Should I run the bar across the back of the tank at the top or across the side at the top? Thank you for your picture, from what I gather by the way the 90deg elbows are facing is that yours is going to run along the top on the side, hence shooting water down the length of the tank. I guess I have answered my own question, but still whats best? Spray bar on the back or on the side to prevent dead zones?

Thats enough for now, sorry to hijack your thread.

No worries about hijacking here Mate. The more info passed back and forth on these forums, the better it is for everybody. I've earned a wealth of knowledge about Discus trolling these threads for the past few months. If you want more holes, ie: different directions, but want to keep the flow fast, just make them smaller. I had them flowing in different directions on my 125. As far as placement of the bar, it all depends on how you want the flow to go and if you need surface adjitation to promote a good gas exchange. I have 2 FX5s running on this tank, with one at each end, one with the intake up high, and the output down low, and the opposite on the other side. Trying to create a circular flow patteren. The bottom output blows all the dirt to the one end of the tank, making it easier to vaccum it all out. And the other ouput up high on the other side is rippling the surface, giving a good gas exchange.

[gabloo]

I love ur sand, I can't find anything like that at where i live. Very nice setup too! Can't wait to see with discus.

[Dieselfool]

I love ur sand, I can't find anything like that at where i live. Very nice setup too! Can't wait to see with discus.

Thanks Gabloo. I can't wait either.....but I have to.

[Dieselfool]

Well, it's been three weeks now since filling it up and things seem to be going fine. I've got 19 Black Tetras in and I added my 6 Red Hump Geos in last week. I've been checking the ammonia levels every few days. Unfortunately I can't be around to test it every day as I'm a driver and I sometimes don't make it home for a couple/few days. Is it possable to have missed the ammonia spike while being on the road? I'm using a Master test kit of unknow age, from Aquarium pharmaceuticals and it says to check the color against the chart immediately after mixing. I have yet to get an immediate color change, however, when I let the testtube sit for 10 or 15 min, I get a very distinct yellow color develop in the bottm of the tube? Other than that, things seem to be moving right along. The spraybar has been built and installed, my next project is going to be inline waterheaters to hook up to the FX5s and get those ugly heaters out of the tank. Should be starting these tomorrow.
Al.

[Dieselfool]

I finished my inline heater for my FX5 today. I will say I cannot take credit for this design. It mostly comes from Jose, from a thread in MFK started by Mastiff.

Assembled.
http://i630.photobucket.com/albums/uu22/dieselfool/180%20Gallon%20rebuild/IMG_0078.jpg

Broken down for better viewing.
http://i630.photobucket.com/albums/uu22/dieselfool/180%20Gallon%20rebuild/IMG_0077.jpg

[Herbicidal]

OK, 'bout time for some new pictures with some fish in the tank. :) Nice job BTW. Looking forward to seeing some Discus in there too.

[Plumkin]

Yes lets see some new pics

[Dieselfool]

Yes lets see some new pics

No Discus in there yet. Just put the Clown Loaches in a few days ago. Gotta let the Bio build before the Discus. It's been 5 weeks, (I think) since I filled it and it's taken on a nice tea color.

[Plumkin]

is that from the drift wood?

[walt3]

looks good. i would love to have a 180. my 75 has a ehiem 2217 that is rated for about 150 gallon tank. i didnt want to wonder so i put it on my 75. however as stated, i do 1/4 water changes daily so the filter doesnt really work to hard.:) the flow is pretty good but not to aggresive. i bet if you do frequent water changes one of those filters would totally work for a 180. now if it was a oscar tank... both plus the little guy! lol. :) looking forward to pics as it gets going! walt.

[Dieselfool]

Yes Plumkin, the color is from the driftwood. When I first soaked all this wood for three months in a 55 gallon, it would take about 2 or 3 days for the water to change color after a water change. Once I put it all in the 180, it took about 3 weeks before I could really noticed it changing color. As far as the 2 Fxs go Walt, I have them more for water movment than filtration. I know it's over filtered. But I have them, why not use them instead of using powerheads for water movment. Right now I have 19 Black Tetras, 10 3" Clown Loaches, and 6 3" Redhump Geos in there and the bottom is perfectly clean except for 1 corner where the dirt seems to collect. Luckly it's the back corner where it can't be seen to easy. As far as pics of any new Discus goes, it's probibly going to be another few weeks before I buy any. I want to do this right as it's my 1st. time with Discus. So I want this to be up and running for a couple of months to be sure everything is pefect before putting $500 worth of fish in there. Believe me, it's killing me waiting, I'm online almost every day looking to see who's selling what, but I want to do this right. so I'm forcing myself to have patients.
Al.

[Second Hand Pat]

Al, you targeted which discus you want and how many. I have six tefes in the 230 and they love it.

[walt3]

never seen a tank with vertical braces like that. who makes it and is it old or new? looks pretty cool. like a tank for a super power big fish. looks strong! :)

[Dieselfool]

never seen a tank with vertical braces like that. who makes it and is it old or new? looks pretty cool. like a tank for a super power big fish. looks strong! :)

Hmmmm, not sure what you are refering to Walt. If your refering to the 1st. few pics when I was re-sealing the tank, then those would be the top braces. Tank is on it's front while being re-sealed.
Al.

[Dieselfool]

Hey Pat. I believe I'm going to be going with some wilds as well. Probibly six to start with. Most likely Hudsons. Had a tour of Upper Canada Discus a few months ago, and really liked them. I gave Bob at UCD a call and he invited me right over for a tour. I was most impressed I must say. He's got a top notch operation going on, and it's only 15 min. from me. He gave me the low down on the Hudsons, and hooked me up with a couple of "must read" threads on this site. But like I said before, I want everything to be up and running for awhile before making the BIG investment. So it's at least a few weeks away. I'm already looking for a new tank to sit on the stand I'm already using. You see, there's been a small mishap with the 180. Seems the dog has taken an intrest in my fish as well. He sometimes jumps up at the fish as they swim by. A few days ago I found 3 big scratches going from top to bottom at a slight angle. So if I can find maybe a 220 with the same footprint as my 180, I'll buy it. But if not, I'm hopping to find a nice clean, used 180 at a good price and swap them out.
Al.

[Dieselfool]

Al, you targeted which discus you want and how many. I have six tefes in the 230 and they love it.

Oh yeah, FYI.... I've been following your Biotope thread. You have some real beauties there. I hope mine turn out half as nice as yours.
Al.

[Second Hand Pat]

Thanks Al, I have had a 180 and love it. But I tell ya, I love the height of the 230. A pain to clean (especially for me as I'm a 5 foot female) but the fish love it and they look so awesome in it.

[Chunks]

Seems the dog has taken an interest in my fish as well. He sometimes jumps up at the fish as they swim by. A few days ago I found 3 big scratches going from top to bottom at a slight angle.

Oh man how frustrating... I hope you love that dog because I would be most upset with it to say the least...

[Dieselfool]

Oh man how frustrating... I hope you love that dog because I would be most upset with it to say the least...

It's not even my damn dog! It's my Son and Daughter in-law's dog. My house is a duplex and they rent the bsmt apt off me. Sometimes my 3yr. old Grandson sneaks up the stairs and the dog follows him. Boy.....the things you let slide for your kids eh? LOL.
Al.

[Apistomaster]

I am jumping in rather late in this discussion but since I have views about Discus keeping that are different from many I thought I would share a few of them.
I like to have enough filtration/watercirculation that is about 10 to 12 times the nominal volume of the tank per hour. I direct the return flows from the two filters, a wt/dry and an heim 2217 so they are deflecting off the side of the tank or a substantial obstacle like a piece of wood. The flow through rate is large but there are no significantly strong flows as to annoy the Discus or force them to fight any current.
I also split the flows so there is on return at each end and this tends to cancel any unwanted currents. I feel that most filter manufacturers exaggerate so if they say the filter is good for a 180 gal tank I read that as good for a 90 gal to 125 gal tank at most.
You can't really have two much filtration. More filtration means each filter can run that much longer between cleanings than they otherwise would.

By now you probably have found your tap water is fine for domestics but if I read right, it sounds like you may be planning to try wild Green Discus. Not my first choice for a beginning Discus keeper. They really do better when kept in soft acid water and for that you need to have RO water available and adjust it to the correct parameters.
I think Symphysodon haraldi(Blue/Browns) are easier and more forgiving of mistakes than Greens and Heckels.
The water purifier that came with the used tank is not up to the job. A brand new one can purify as little as 25 gals to 125 gal depending upon how high the Total Dissolved Solids(TDS) is present in your tap water. I used one long ago when I was living in an apartment and want to breed a few Killiefish and Apistogramma nissenji so I didn't need a lot of pure water. I served it function since it was not a very permanent address.

You may want to moderate the tannins released by that much wood by using activated carbon for a few months. Right at first the wood may contribute so much tannins it will be hard to see the fish.
I think your tank layout is a very nice one for Discus and hope to see them swimming in their new home soon. Two more cents of advice. If you are starting with wild Discus you might want to have some live black worms on hand during the first months and then as part of their weekly diet.

[Dieselfool]

Better late than never, LOL. Any and all advice will be considered. Yeah, I agree with you on the manufacturer's claims and I'm a firm believer in over filtering. Like I said in a previous post, got the 2 FXs, why not use them? I don't think the current will be a problem for 3" + Discus. I'm currently housing a 3" Angel that got beat up, and he has no problem swimming in the currents. As far as getting wild caught fish goes, I'm starting to think that they might be a somewhat large investment for a 1st. timer keeping Discus. I've been checking around my local area and there seems to be quite a few local breeders, some with good reputations among the local discus people. All are with an hours drive from me. Does anybody else think this might be a wise way to go? Maybe get some expeirence with cheaper fish 1st.? Tannins?.......well I'm beginning to like the natural look of the tank. The tank has been up and running for 8 weeks now and it was getting very dark in there, a little too dark for me. So I did a 50% water change about a week ago and it really lightened it up quite a bit. Even the non-fishy people that visit say that it looks real nice and natural. Thanks for the complements.
Al.

[Harriett]

Al, you have written that you are reconsidering going 'wild' on your first foray out in Discus keeping. Seems like you are drawn to the more natural beauty of wilds than the eye candy that is available in domestics. If so, why not take a serious look at some good quality blue or red turqs and or maybe some blue fish? If you have breeders up there, surely you can lay hands on these. They are generally a bit less expensive as well but the most natural looking of the domestics and really beautiful, IMO. Just a suggestion for your research. I am enjoying this thread, I like your approach very much.
Best regards,
Harriett

[Dieselfool]

Thank you Harriett. Your right, I really do like the looks of the wilds best. (right now) LOL. But the ones I really want are gonna cost about $100 each. And I really want to start out right, and the gereral consenses with most is to have at least 5 or 6 for them to be comfortable. A sizeable investment for a 1st. timer. So the reds and blue Turqs are a deffinet possibility. I've got a local guy here whom I've done biz with in the past (spent $100s on Africans from him) and never had a problem. Here's a couple of pics he sent me today of his stock. Wadda ya think?
Al.

http://i630.photobucket.com/albums/uu22/dieselfool/DSC_0195.jpg

http://i630.photobucket.com/albums/uu22/dieselfool/DSC_0197.jpg

[NewETown]

Hi Diesel,

Great thread! I'm just now seeing it and thought I'd post to say those fish look awesome. The local breeder/supplier that you have a long-standing relationship is extremely helpful (as I'm sure you're aware) for any hobbyist regardless of experience level. Those fish also look pretty good! The tanks they're in look clean and they seem health, no visible marks or damage or anything. I'm actually switching back to discus after keeping africans for a while (so, kind of similar to you I think?). Anyways, I'd say definitely go with your local fish. It's always easy to setup another tank for wild fish down the road... barring family/money/living space constraints ;).

[Dieselfool]

I think a problem may have just arose. Been emailing back and forth with my guy tonight. Seems all his fish are in R/O water. I've just been using tap water. He says I can acclimate them using "the drip method". Not sure how to do this. Anybody? He also suggests trying Peat. Don't know how hard my water is at this point, just mainly been checking ammonia and nitrites since I filled it. I have worked a deal with him for 8 Discus about 4" or so, but because of conflicting work schedules we won't be able to hook up till next Mon. Anything I can do before that?
Thanks.
Al.

[nwehrman]

So long as your not breeding the tap is fine. What he is suggesting is to drip your current tank water slowly into their transport water so they can adjust over an hour usually. But depending on your tap and his RO might not be needed.

Find out the ph and Tds of your water and his is - that will tell us more about what method to use.

[Dieselfool]

Quick question.....does anybody think the fish in the bottom right corner of the 1st. pic looks stunted? Seems a little off to me after reading about eye to body size raitio.
Thanks.
Al.

[BABYJIZAY]

Discus Hans suggested to me to stop using the drip process and just put the fish right into the tank after letting the bag float and match temperature. Ever since I started doing this vs drip, I have not lost one fish. If you can't trust Hans advice, who can you trust?!!

[BABYJIZAY]

PS - LOVE this thread. So fun to watch the process. It is invigorating as the final product.

[cjr8420]

Quick question.....does anybody think the fish in the bottom right corner of the 1st. pic looks stunted? Seems a little off to me after reading about eye to body size raitio.
Thanks.
Al.
id say a bunch look stunted/rough.but if the price is right they can still turn into nice fish.if u want quality its not cheap.im growing out some quality discus from quarter size to save some money and am doing an awesome job of stunting them myself
but ive learned alot of do's and donts along the way.learn with the cheap ones so if u have loss 200$ in fish dont hurt as bad 600-1000$ in fish.the bigger the better small ones a very fragile.and i heard the same thing if fish go to higher ph plop and drop

[Dieselfool]

Discus Hans suggested to me to stop using the drip process and just put the fish right into the tank after letting the bag float and match temperature. Ever since I started doing this vs drip, I have not lost one fish. If you can't trust Hans advice, who can you trust?!!

I understand that I should listen to the masters in this hobbie, but I'm just not too sure about the plop and drop method only because of my water quality. As of now my water is
P.H=7.8
Ammonia=0
NitrIte=0
But the hardness is at 250ppm. Wouldn't this be somewhat of a drastic jump from RO water?
Thanks.
Al.

[Dieselfool]

Thanks BabyJ. Should be picking out some fish tonight, or tomorrow night.
Al.

[cjr8420]

I understand that I should listen to the masters in this hobbie, but I'm just not too sure about the plop and drop method only because of my water quality. As of now my water is
P.H=7.8
Ammonia=0
NitrIte=0
But the hardness is at 250ppm. Wouldn't this be somewhat of a drastic jump from RO water?
Thanks.
Al.
from what i understand discus can handle going to hard water from ro without issues its going from hard to ro that will give the fish shock. i dealt with the issue once plop and drop worked for me but u still not sure pm one of the masters and get info str8 from them or slowly add ur water to bag so they not jumping from str8 ro to str8 tap.i think of it as geting smacked in the face i would rather get 1 hard smack than 10 regular smacks for an hour str8 i think either way u ok hth gl

[Cambik]

I am by no means an expert but am choking in since I got seven fish from Hans and did the plop and drop with them. My water is the same as your but my hardness is over 250. I had no issues. Fish are perfectly healthy. In fact Hans suggest doing this to get them out of the shipping water asap.

Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk

[Dieselfool]

Man!!!!!! What to do, what to do? Been playin with airlines tonight. Got it all set up for about a gallon an hr. and I can't decide which way to go with this. Hmmmmmm. Plop n drop, or drip. As far as getting them out of they're shipping water, these fish aren't comming in shipping water. They came off the plane this morning and were put into the importers R/O this morning. Then my guy wants to let them sit for a day to make sure they're okay, then I pick them up. And as far as the slap in the face analogy goes, one hard slap might be easier to take the ten light ones, unless of course that one hard smack knocks you out. LOL.
Al.

[NewETown]

I've never done a drip method on any fish I've ever purchased. The only time I would do a drip method is for salt water fish, the water parameters for them matter more (from what I understand) and they don't handle change as well as fresh water fish. Think about it this way, Discus and other South American that live in rivers experience a constant flow of water. If there is a big rainstorm up stream they are going to get hit with the fallout from that storm, it will be sudden and could have a major impact on water quality. IME fish are tough little guys (I'm not advocating testing the limits) and a little "smack" in the face isn't going to cause problems to healthy stock.
-Everett

[Dieselfool]

Well the fish should be here this evening. Think I'm going to drip them. Let the flaming begin. LOL

[Dis82]

hey Diesel, where are you getting your fish from? Is your LFS importing discus from hans? Im in hamilton so im curious to know. In the future i would love to get some wild caught, what did you end up ordering?

Goodluck getting the fish in :)

[jlcoop277]

I've dripped all of my discus thus far. I have hard water and a high Ph and no problems.

[Dieselfool]

New pics.
Wanna guess what's in the box?

http://i630.photobucket.com/albums/uu22/dieselfool/180%20Gallon%20rebuild/IMG_0294.jpg

I don't want to mess with them too much tonight, so pics of the new guys in the tank should wait till tomorrow.
Here's a few tank shots from tonight. Sorry about the quality of the pics.

The Alpha Male Geo and his Mrs.
http://i630.photobucket.com/albums/uu22/dieselfool/180%20Gallon%20rebuild/IMG_0315.jpg

http://i630.photobucket.com/albums/uu22/dieselfool/180%20Gallon%20rebuild/IMG_0304.jpg

Some of the Clowns out playin. I've got a few oddbals in there.
http://i630.photobucket.com/albums/uu22/dieselfool/180%20Gallon%20rebuild/IMG_0326.jpg

http://i630.photobucket.com/albums/uu22/dieselfool/180%20Gallon%20rebuild/IMG_0337.jpg

http://i630.photobucket.com/albums/uu22/dieselfool/180%20Gallon%20rebuild/IMG_1085.jpg

FTS.
http://i630.photobucket.com/albums/uu22/dieselfool/180%20Gallon%20rebuild/IMG_0346.jpg

Okay, okay. Just a couple of real quick shots of the new guys. More tomorrow for sure.
http://i630.photobucket.com/albums/uu22/dieselfool/180%20Gallon%20rebuild/IMG_0353.jpg

http://i630.photobucket.com/albums/uu22/dieselfool/180%20Gallon%20rebuild/IMG_0352.jpg

[Second Hand Pat]

Al, looking forward to some more pictures. What type of geo is that?

[semperfimrn1]

looks awesome

[Dieselfool]

G'moning Pat. Those are Red Hump Geos. I have 6 in there, but started with 7 and 1 bought the farm for some un-known reason. Got 4 males, 1 female and 1 I'm not too sure of just yet. They're only at 3+", and the 2 in the 1st. pic have already spawned 3 times. The last 2 times they made it to the free swimming stage, then I guess someone got a good meal. I did want to get some Geos, just not this soon. However was at my LFS 2 months ago and they offered to sell me the last 7 as they wanted to clear out the tank. They were listed at $15 each, and they told me that if I take all 7, they'd let'em go for $5 each. Well...couldn't pass that up could I?

Thanks Semper.

Dis82, ordered the Discus through a importer up here. These aren't wild caught, there domestic bread from one of their supplyers across the pond somewhere. Just couldn'd bring myself to pony up the $ for W/C my 1st. time out. But I will get some, if this all works out okay. I know it seems like a lot of trouble when there are so many local breedrs around, but I have bought many fish (mostly Africans) from this guy in the past without any problems. And I got one heck of a deal too. I ended up ordering 4 Red Turqs, 2 Pigeon Blood and 2 Cobalt Blue they called them. I haven't been able to get a real good look at them yet as they were packed in that blue medicine stuff, and I had my lights down low to ease the stress level when I put them in the tank. So we'll see soon.
Al.

[Dis82]

Glad things are working out so far, sounds like it was a good deal on the discus. Good call on the turqs they are nice fish. Ive got 2 red turqs and 4 pigeon bloods. I got mine from Cam's in Mississauga and I think they were from Thailand. Looking forward to some pics :)

[Dieselfool]

Glad things are working out so far, sounds like it was a good deal on the discus. Good call on the turqs they are nice fish. Ive got 2 red turqs and 4 pigeon bloods. I got mine from Cam's in Mississauga and I think they were from Thailand. Looking forward to some pics :)

My guy says they order from Thailand too. I believe I got 4 Red Turqs, 2 Blue Cobalt, 1 Pigeon Blood and 1 I'm not sure of yet.

So far so good. They've all been out swimming, but they tend to hide a bit. But when they're out, they don't scatter when I go near the tank. They just kinda slowly swim in behind the wood then they come back out in awhile. When I saw a few of them pecking at the sand and some of the wood, I lightly fed the tank. But they wouldn't touch the flake or shrimp pellets. So I tried a little blood worms and I saw most of them eat that. They're a little smaller than I anticapated. Was told they'd be 3-4". The biggest one I have is only 3" across the body, from top to bottom, not including fins. They seem a little thin, but I kind of expected that after shipping. So far I'm happy with them.
A few pics and once again I'm sorry about the quality. I'm no photographer.
Al.

http://i630.photobucket.com/albums/uu22/dieselfool/180%20Gallon%20rebuild/IMG_0401.jpg

http://i630.photobucket.com/albums/uu22/dieselfool/180%20Gallon%20rebuild/IMG_0400.jpg

http://i630.photobucket.com/albums/uu22/dieselfool/180%20Gallon%20rebuild/IMG_0399.jpg

[dacevedom]

Very nice pics, fish looks very good and now im jelous of that tank :bandana:

[Maria Ashton]

Thanks for sharing, look forward to seeing how it all comes together. I bought a second hand tank with its occupants and its lovely but I think it would have been better on many fronts to start from scratch. Are you going for community or pure Discus?

[Maria Ashton]

sorry just seen your pics which for some reason hadnt loaded on my machine. Looks really cool.

[Dieselfool]

Hmmmm, seems when you change the name of the photo album on Photobucket, it closes the link to all pics I've posted here. I still have all the pics at least. I just don't remember which ones went with what posts. And there doesn't seem to be an edit button on each post to go back and re-installl the pics. Anybody know how I'd do that?
Thanks.
Al.

Oh, a few from last night.

http://i630.photobucket.com/albums/uu22/dieselfool/180%20Discus%20tank/IMG_0415.jpg

http://i630.photobucket.com/albums/uu22/dieselfool/180%20Discus%20tank/IMG_0410-1.jpg

http://i630.photobucket.com/albums/uu22/dieselfool/180%20Discus%20tank/IMG_0408.jpg

http://i630.photobucket.com/albums/uu22/dieselfool/180%20Discus%20tank/IMG_0406.jpg

http://i630.photobucket.com/albums/uu22/dieselfool/180%20Discus%20tank/IMG_0405.jpg

[jlcoop277]

It's looking good, I'm about to do something similar with my decor.

[Second Hand Pat]

Evening Al, look like they are settling in nicely :) Love the tank :)

[Dieselfool]

I'll put up a couple of the 1st. pics.

FTS.

http://i630.photobucket.com/albums/uu22/dieselfool/180%20Discus%20tank/IMG_0346.jpg

Night lighting.

http://i630.photobucket.com/albums/uu22/dieselfool/180%20Discus%20tank/IMG_0033.jpg

[Dis82]

Looks good Al, congrats.

[Dieselfool]

Thanks guys/girls. Working on getting some video up in a few days.
Al.

[Dieselfool]

Well it's been 8 days and thing were all okay until today. Now things are not looking so good. See my post in the disease/sickness thread. Maybe one of you kind folks can help me out?
Thanks.
Al.

[Eclipes]

nice =]

[Herbicidal]

How's things with the Discus? :confused: Last post I saw over on your thread in the Disease and Sickness section was from 9/22. I hope they are doing better!!!