Starting a new fish tank for discus and angelfish (if they are compatible)

[Lunarwaves]

Hi guys,
I'm really new to the forum, i only joined today, and a few months ago i had a sudden growing lust for fishes and aquariums. recently i found out that i really love discus and are extremely fascinated by them, and today i wanted to know how to set up a tank for them and some info about the nitrogen cycle. Basically, i have a 150 litres tank, which is quite big for me, and its got an internal filter (fluval U3) i was wondering whether i would need an external filter, please help! also i have been cycling the tank for 4 days now, and getting quite impatient and really eager to add some fish in, so i was wondering whether it would be a good idea to add a goldfish which i have in my current old small fish tank into the new big fish tank, to speed up the process of the nitrogen cycle, also would adding some fish poop from my old tank to the new tank also speed up the process, and i was also thinking about adding bacteria enhancer and such as stress ZYME to make the process of cycling the fish tank faster. so please help once again! :P SO i was thinking what kind of substrate i should have for my tank, and how much of it, e.g. if sand is a good idea then how much sand? (2 inches in depth?). currently in my tank i have some small rounded gravel and i don't like them, so if you guys give me a good excuse and tell me that sands good then i can go get sand :P Also is it ok to put plants into the tank as well because this can reduce the amount of nitrate there is in the tank and makes it look prettier, also if i add some rocks to the tank, do they have to be rounded or is it ok for it to be slightly rough. in addition, my fish-tank didn't come with lighting or a lid, do you guys think i need a lid, and what sort of lighting should i get? how many watts and how should i position it? Also one really important thing is is it compatible with angelfish, because i really like angelfish too, if you could give me an answer or a solution that would be great. what are the water requirements for discus? what PH is best for them, and also what temperature is best for them? And for feeding is it ok to feed them pellets? and some frozen blood worms to eat? One last thing, can i get juvenile discus' because i prefer to grow them from a younger age and develop a stronger bond between us :) and it would be helpful is you could tell me how many discus i could put in my tank (100 cm length by 50 cm height and 30 cm depth)

Thank you very much for reading this long thread, and hopefully you'll answer it too, thank you very much for your help! i know its a really long passage, but doesn't that show my passision and enthusiasm for them? so it should be rewarded with high quality answers which you guys provide!!!

Thank you Very much again!! much appreciated.

LW

[Second Hand Pat]

Hey LW, welcome to simply and lets slow down a little. I would like to see you get a little knowledge under your belt while your tank cycles.

Start with this

http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showthread.php?86009-Beginner-s-Guide-to-Getting-Started-with-Discus

and if you are considering juvies then this but would strongly suggest starting with at least 4 in sub adults.

http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showthread.php?35043-The-ease-of-cleaning-bare-bottom-tanks

Take your time and do some reading and research. It will be worth it.

Pat

[Lunarwaves]

Thanks a lot Pat, and thanks for the welcoming, and thanks for the advice :) i will do more research myself too!

[Second Hand Pat]

More than welcome LW. Please take it a little slower. Start with a BB tank and please no plants for now and get your feet under you with the discus. :) Pat

[Lunarwaves]

Pat, what is a BB tank, and should i get a bare bottom then?

[Second Hand Pat]

LW, yes BB is bare bottom and a great way to start the learning process and easest way to learn to keep a clean tank and water. :)
Pat

[Lunarwaves]

thanks again, and sorry if im bothering you, but are discus compatible with angels, and do they need an external filter?

[Second Hand Pat]

LW, I do not have personal experiences with keeping discus and angels together but known other members to do keep them together. I run sumps on my tanks and a AC 110 on the QT. A fluval U3 (in your first post) is an undergravel filter right and if your tank is BB is not necessary. Regarding an external filter you can but many here run sponges filters also. I would suggest posting threads with one or two questions so you get the info you seek.

[Second Hand Pat]

Oops me bad...a fluval U3 is not an under gravel filter but an under water filter :blushing:

[judy]

I keep three angels in with my discus and they do fine together. Years ago, wild caught angels carried capillaria worms which were very serious when discus caught them, but domestically-bred angels-- especially if you get them from someone local-- should not pose that problem. I agree with Pat. While your tank goes through its cycle, read up and learn about the next steps you will be taking. The learning is half the fun! Go bare bottom, use an external or hang-on-back filter, get your fish cabinet stocked with a full set of water test kits. If you want to raise juvies, be ready to do a lot of water changes and some heavy feeding (hence the bare bottom-- you will need to vacuum out all leftovers before they get a chance to foul the water, and that's easiest in a bare bottom tank.
For people using substrate, sand seems to be a preferred medium, but only in a quite thin layer. Waste does not work its way down into the sand substrate as it does with coarser gravels, and is therefore, again, easier to vacuum up. If you wan plants, consider potted plants in a bare bottom or on a thin layer of sand. But wait til the fish are adults before you start with plants.

[Lunarwaves]

thanks for your infor judy, but whats so bad about putting plants in early? isn't it good because it takes in the nitrate which the ammonia eventually gets turned into?

[judy]

Raising juvies is just a lot easier without anything else in the tank, both for vacuuming up detritus and because they need frequent water changes anyway, with or without plants to absorb some of the nitrate.

[Second Hand Pat]

LW, if you have not kept plants or discus I would suggest doing one or the other but not together. Learning curve on both is steep and each require some basic upfront knowledge, practice, patience and time. The needs of the discus and plants may conflict and often require a fine balance only patience and knowledge can teach.

I tried initially to keep low tech plants with adult discus but removed the plants after a short time as I couldn't keep the tank clean enough or the plants alive. So ATM I am still learning the discus side.

[Lunarwaves]

o i see thanks for telling me i will take it easy too

[strawberryblonde]

Pat is giving you excellent advice!

I started out with the idea of a planted tank too a few months ago. I even managed to raise my discus in the planted tank quite successfully for 2 months, but once I moved them to a larger tank and didn't move the plants in with them I realized just how difficult I'd made it on myself for those 2 months!

Plants are a huge pain when you're feeding discus high quality protein foods many times a day. They collect bits of uneaten food and there it sits and rots...ugh! Discus need super clean water and daily water changes, so you end up siphoning all around the plants and then stirring up the leaves to remove as much gunk as possible. It ends up tearing delicate leaves, twisting long slender leaves till they get tangled and ruined, or the plants just sit there and grow moldy food bits at the roots. (Moldy food = sick discus!)

In my big tank I tried using just a sand bottom and two sword plants in pots. The pots worked fine and made cleaning around them much easier, but the sand was still hard to manage. Eventually I sucked out the sand and gasped at how easy it now is to keep my tank spotlessly clean! No more hour long vacuuming sessions! Now I just siphon up the poop and food bits from the end of the tank (I pointed the outflow so that it all collects in one place) and then walk away while the tank drains down. Simple and easy!

I'd also go with Pat's recommendation of sub-adult discus to start out with. Mine were all 4" when I got them and raising them has been a joy. I'm SO glad I resisted the urge to buy a whole tank full of juvies.

Sooooo, long story short, stick with a bare bottom tank to start out and if you want the look of plants, put a couple of swords plants in clay pots (or do what I did and use HUGE coffee mugs). You can put root tabs into the gravel in the pots so you won't even need to use fertilizers.

I also added some bits of driftwood to my tank, but chose tall ones that I could stand straight up in my tank...that way they aren't laying on their sides and collecting yet more poop and food bits.