Altums in tap?

[zchauvin]

Anyone keep altums in tap water before? Please share if you have :)

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[hedut]

I did have Altum angles from Gulf Coast Discus straight from the tap

[dawrtw]

I bought my from Kraig Koontz one of the sponcers here. Mine only get tap water. They have grown beyond my expectations. They eat like crazy and are housed in a 220 gal with my discus and Congo tetras.

[zchauvin]

Awesome, I'm planning out and setting up a mini amano private tank and plan to keep maybe 4-6 with about 60 dither fish.
Glad to know since I don't have ro. Any problems or losses when acclimating?
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[illumnae]

I hope when you refer to a "mini" tank, it's figurative and not literal. Altums need fairly large tanks (up to 2.5 feet in height to grow optimally, but no less than 2 feet in height). I wouldn't keep altums in anything less than a 3x2x1.5 tank, and even so that's a tight squeeze for adults.

[zchauvin]

Lol its 75g, amanos tank is close to 1500 gallons....

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[hedut]

you could buy some ketapang leaf, I lost 3 out of 7 but I do extra quarantine. And again you should ask the seller better is it F1 or wild and in my opinion wild you should do extra quarantine meaning give some medication or deworm fish. And if wild in my opinion you should buy some ketapang leaf for softer the water for few weeks to get use to tap water cause that what I usually do to wild discus :) and good luck:). if you have any question feel free to drop me pm.

[illumnae]

Altums are notoriously difficult to acclimate, especially fresh from import. I've been having fairly good success over the past few years since I first started keeping altums (my first batch are over 3 years old now). What you really need to take note of is that altums, having come from extreme blackwater conditions, do not have the immune system that we can expect from domestic fish. In particular, their resistance to bacterial infections is particularly abysmal as bacteria do not thrive in under pH 5 conditions where the altums spend their lives.

While the altums can eventually be comfortable in tap water (my first batch were raised on tap water from day 1 of purchase. I only got my RO filter last year), you need to eradicate common aquarium bacteria and then slowly let them build up their resistance to it. Columnaris is the #1 altum killer, and many many people have reported entire batches wiped out due to columnaris. I personally have experienced severe losses while trying out different ways to acclimate altums over the past few years.

I've posted this on a couple of forums now, and will reproduce it here. It's a write-up I did on what I have found to be the most effective way for me to acclimate newly imported altums. It's by no means the only way, nor would I say it's the most effective way - it's just what has worked for me. I can't guarantee that it will work for you too. This post was created for a local forum, so medication brands recommended are in a local (Singapore) context, and you may see some local slang used - apologies for that!


I'm no expert, but based on my research done, the main reason for altums dying so easily is that they arrive in bad shape. The reasons for this are as follows:

1. Altums are a true blackwater species of angelfish. what this means is that where they come from, their water has no detectable TDS and pH is definitely below 5. This is very different from the water that they are kept in after capture, during storage, export, LFS tanks and finally our own tanks.

2. This leads to the next problem, where on top of different water quality, altums are kept for days/weeks in holding facilities to be sorted by size before they are shipped over 50+ hours to our shores. Water is not changed much during the holding period, and not at all during the transit. Imagine the amount of filth in the water by the time they arrive.

3. By the time they reach our shores, the altums are in really bad shape. Due to their fragile nature by this time, and the reputation for being "weak" that they have, many hobbyists tend to do excessive "drip acclimatization" for them before transferring them to their tanks. This is actually bad for the altums. As mentioned above, there is a huge amount of filth in the water that the altums are bagged in. This filth translates to ammonia. As many would know, ammonia is not as toxic in pH below 7. Due to the filth in the water, and the increased amount of carbon dioxide exhaled by the fish over transit, the water in the bags is rather acidic. However, when we open the bags to do dripping, oxygen rushes in and gas exchange takes place. Further, the water from hobbyists' tanks in usually is neutral and not acidic. What this means is that the gas exchange removes carbon dioxide, making the water less acidic. At the same time, the water pH is also rising due to the slowly increasing amount of neutral pH water being dripped in. In other words, the ammonia already in the water is becoming more and more toxic with each passing moment. The altums are subjected to an extremely long time in such toxic water while the hobbyist waits for the "drip acclimatization" to complete.

4. Columnaris. Google it. This disease is the bane of altum angels. After the long process described above, any altums that have not been fatally affected by the above toxic environment would be severely weakened. You can imagine that the number of altums that make it this far is already very few. However, most people only know of the dreaded "altum disease". Fins start rotting and white slime starts appearing on the bodies of the remaining altums. Most people don't know that weakened altums are particularly succeptible to columnaris. Most people don't even know what this disease is. It's actually a bacterial infection. The bacteria exists in the water of our tanks all the time. However, only weak fish will succumb to it and fall sick. This is why you can have other healthy fish unaffected in the same tank, while 1-2 weak fish (or in this case all the altums) are affected by the disease. Most people see the altums' symptoms and merely treat for normal fungus (as they think the white slime is fungus) or fin rot. Without proper medication and treatment, the already weak altums eventually succumb to columnaris and die off.

As a result of the above combined factors, it's a very sad fact that most of the thousands of altums imported worldwide to not live past the few months following their capture.

With the above points in mind, this is my experience in how to successfully keep altums:

1. Purchase them as soon as possible once they hit the LFS. If possible, take them in their original bags as they arrive in the LFS. The less they are transferred around different bags, the better.

2. Skip the drip acclimatization. Prepare a tank beforehand that is properly cycled with pH and TDS as low as possible. Keep it heated. When you bring your altums home, open the bag quickly and immediately net them out and put them in your prepared tank. Don't go through the drip process.

3. Proper quarantine is essential - treat for Columnaris! Medicate them properly. Prevention is better than cure. Don't wait until they show signs of disease before you start treating them. What I do is that immediately upon release into my tank, I will start a full course at full dose of API Furan-2, which is an effective cure for Columnaris. Follow the instructions on the box. Don't overdose or underdose. FOLLOW INSTRUCTIONS! This full course will take approximately 1 week. During this time, make sure your water is in tip top condition!

4. During this period of time, make sure the altums are eating. The proper time to train them to eat pellets is not now. If they only eat live food, give them brine shrimp/bbs. If they're willing to take frozen bloodworms, give it to them. They have been starved for ages since capture - you need to get them feeding and fattened up so they have the energy to kickstart their lives again.

5. When you complete the Columnaris treatment, the altums should have regained some weight and should be healthier. If you're lucky, their fins would have started to grow back. This is when you start treating them for other parasites. Take note that most altums are wild caught. There may be some farmbred ones now as claimed, but I'm not certain. Wild caught fish carry with them a host of parasites. Ultimately, you want to treat them for internal parasites using the compounds praziquental and metronidazole. This will take care of flukes, worms, protozoa and bacteria. There are various medications out there that contain one or more of these compounds. Make sure you have both. Most people use metronidazole and neglect praziquental. Don't do that. They serve different purposes and both must be used. Jungle Labs Internal Parasite Guard contains both compounds. Alternatively, EIHO brand sells them separately. Don't use other strong stuff like iodine or acraflavine or some other antiseptic. Remember, we're dealing with weak fish here. Even diluted, such antiseptics may or may not work. Use the compounds I mentioned above.

6. Finally, round it all up with a session of external parasite removal. This one is usually not essential, but do it if you're "kiasu". I see altums sometimes with flukes or "pimples" on their bodies. They're external parasites and easily treated. I use Jungle Labs Parasite Guard for this and have no experience in other medications.

7. By now, your altums should be happy and healthy. Feel free now to heave a sign of relief. Usually if the altums make it past this quarantine, they would have been in your tanks for at least 3 weeks. The danger period should be over. Treat them carefully for the next couple of months, and thereafter they will be extremely hardy. My 3 year old altums are very very hardy and resilient! Just take note. When adding tankmates, do make sure that they're properly quarantined and "clean" of parasites as well, or your past 3 weeks of work would have been wasted!

8. Just an additional tip since I've typed so much. How to best train altums to eat dry food. First, I find that hungry altums are willing to try all kinds of food. As fish food does smell attractive to fish, a suitably hungry altum would generally try out and learn to eat dry food if that's all you feed them. However, if you have a particularly finicky batch of altums, all you really need to do is to add in other fish that are already eating dried food. Altums are cichlids, which are one of the smartest fish around. They will watch the other fish eat the food, deduce that the food is edible, and proceed to eat it hungrily. I've used this method on various sorts of wild cichlids including apistogramma, discus and uarus and it has always worked. I managed to get heckel discus eating NLS just 3-4 days after they touched down in Singapore (I took them the day after the exporter landed them here). On day 1, they refused everything except frozen bloodworms and live brine shrimp. By day 3, they were fighting for the NLS.


Sorry for the long rambling post! Just sharing my experiences after having successfully raised a few batches of altums after my initial painful and expensive "learning process" 3 years ago. My altums from 3 years ago are still with me!

In addition to the above, I have found that if you use a UV on the QT tank, you will not need to start the Furan-2 treatment immediately. This is on the assumption that you have already cleared the QT tank of all bacteria that may be lurking in the water by way of the UV. In this case, you would observe the altums on a daily basis and only treat once they show signs of columnaris developing (white patches on body, disintegrating fins/tail etc.). Once the symptoms appear, don't hesitate, start treatment early! The earlier the better.

Don't introduce tankmates in the first month or 2, even after you've QT'ed them for a couple of weeks. New fish bring the risk of introducing disease - and remember, altums come with zero resistance to common aquarium diseases. I've wiped out a batch of stable post-medicated altums due to the introduction of just 3 juvenile eartheaters as tankmates for them after the "standard" quarantine. In this case, let the quarantine stretch out over 1-2 months - the longer the better.

I hope the above helps in your acclimation process and you don't experience the heartache of losses that many would-be altum keepers experience. I would recommend you go with wild altums and not tank-bred ones. I still have my doubts as to whether the tank-bred ones are "true" altums or hybrids, for one....and for another if you closely observe the tank-bred ones, you will find a number of physical defects such as broken bars, or bars that are not "cleanly" defined.

[Darrell Ward]

Good information. I would also agree that the tank housing Altums should be larger than a 75. One has to remember adult Altums get larger with their huge fins than average adult Discus.

[hedut]

that's good info

[zchauvin]

Suppose I'll stick with 60 tetras.....

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