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Ryan
09-26-2011, 11:22 PM
I've been lurking on reefcentral.com for a while but it's making my head spin. There is so much to take in.

I have a spare 55 gallon sitting around and my cousins wanted me to try my hand at a simple saltwater setup. Maybe a few ocellaris clowns, a flame angel... nothing fancy. I don't really want to get into expensive lighting or coral. Just FOWLR, I guess.

Can anyone give me an idea on a basic starter setup for a 55 gallon? What sort of filtration would you recommend? Do I really need a sump for a tank this size with a fish-only configuration? A skimmer? Suggestions and comments are welcome!

Skip
09-26-2011, 11:38 PM
exactly ryan.. me too!! i would like some fire fish.. figure keep it small and they fish are very colorful and fairly inexpensive :)

Darrell Ward
09-26-2011, 11:39 PM
Some live rock for bio, and a good skimmer is usually sufficient. A sump is a good place to keep the skimmer, heater, other hardware, and can give you better circulation with a good pump, but it's certainly not a requirement.

alleykat0498
09-26-2011, 11:48 PM
The problem with sw is that its 250% more addictive than anything else in the world of aquatics. I started a 10 gal nano tank for just a few fish and somewhere around 10k later I lost 15-20k in corals during hurricane Irene. Nothing in sw is inexpensive. It's a wonderful hpbby, but be prepared to enroll in reefers anonymous within six weeks or so.

I will mention that any saltwater owner should have an RO unit, besides the skimmer its hands down the most important piece of equipment.

Second Hand Pat
09-26-2011, 11:50 PM
Ryan, would you consider a 24 gallon cube? I have a 24 gallon if you would like to try it and it has everything, lights, pump, skimmer and filter. It does lack a stand however. It should allow you to keep a few clowns with some live rock. A bit small for an angel however. I would be willing to let you borrow it and you can get your feet wet.

I will warn you saltwater is addicting. A couple of these are really cool.

http://i925.photobucket.com/albums/ad95/Second_Hand_Pat/YellowHeaded_Jawfish.jpg

Ryan
09-27-2011, 01:04 AM
Thank you for the offer, Pat, but then I'd be compelled to also fill up the empty 55 gallon and I'd be even more poor. ;) I actually just managed to sell some cichlids and move some grow-outs around, so now I have the empty tank. My cousins spend a lot of time here and it'll be a project for us to work on. I'm just not real sure on saltwater basics.

I have a book on clownfish that talks a bit about basic tank setups, but much like the discus hobby, there are several ways to do things. Everything I've read in the clownfish book has been basically dismissed or disagreed with in my read-through of a Salt Tank 101 sticky at Reef Central. I figured some like-minded hobbyists (aka, discus folks) would have some suggestions on what equipment to start with, what I need for cycling, etc. Is live rock and live sand necessary? How much do I need, and how long does it have to sit? Do you feed it like a freshwater cycle?

Skip
09-27-2011, 01:11 AM
can you go bb with salt tank if you have live rock..? instead of live sand

Sean Buehrle
09-27-2011, 01:33 AM
can you go bb with salt tank if you have live rock..? instead of live sand

Absolutely

Get In a local reef club to curb expenses , I've never spent more than 20 bucks on a coral and have had some showstoppers.

Frags can be had for next to nothing.

Best bang for your buck on a skimmer is an octopus brand skimmer, they friggin rock.

I've always liked aquacave to buy reef supplies, he has good prices and fast shipping.

Don't buy someones rock either , buy new from a good supplier like tampabaysaltwater.

Don't under any circumstances use Tapwater, ro/di only.

I want to add to this

Take great care in selecting your lighting to go along with your tank size, reef lighting is pretty intense in some cases and can cause big problems.
Halides get hot and can cause big temp swings especially if you have a canopy. But no other lighting will match it for looks and intensity, reason I say that is because you can't get the shimmering effect with other lights.
Pay attention to what bulb you like and match it to your ballast, some ballasts don't fire all bulbs.
Electronic ballasts rock.

T5 lighting is nice and you can get some good colors out of them, but no shimmer effect.

Ya gotta pay alot of attention to lighting.

Ryan
09-27-2011, 01:37 AM
It looks like I need $500+ worth of live rock just for the 55 gallon? No kidding when they said saltwater was pricey.

pcsb23
09-27-2011, 05:35 AM
I had a reef tank for a while. In the end I just got bored with it :o ....

The tank below is (or was) a 300 litre tank, around 75 US gallons. Had some 75Kg of live rock and coral sand. The sand wasn't massively deep either. I had a T5 216watt (4x54) fixture over the top. It is a juwel tank and still had the built in internal filter (right side) and I added an external cannister too (if memory serves it was a horrid rena xp3) and I also had a large powerhead in there too with a sponge on the intake to stop the shrimp and smaller critters getting mashed. I did use a skimmer, which was a hob type, and it worked ok. I didn't dose anything.

Much of the soft polyps developed from the live rock, but the others were added over time. I did have an anemone for a while and it was very happy for most of the time (15 months or so) then decided to go walkabout and that was it ...

I started from scratch with this tank and "cured" the live rock, which basically means sticking it in sea water with a high current and a filter. The filter gets cycled from the curing process. Live rock acts as a de-nitrator I believe - I never saw nitrates or for that matter phosphates. I did around 33% to 50% w/c every 3 weeks and topped up using straight RO water. Always made the sea water with RO and synthetic salts too. Maintenance was really quite simple, a wipe down just before water changes and an occasional blast between the live rock (using the powerhead) to flush and detritus out.

It was suggested that we started with green chromis as these are a "good starter" fish - yea right! Unless you like them don't get them, they are the marine equivalent of convicts imo (apart from the breeding!). Safe to say I don't like them. I really liked the anthias though, these are lovely fish.

Sean Buehrle
09-27-2011, 06:57 AM
It looks like I need $500+ worth of live rock just for the 55 gallon? No kidding when they said saltwater was pricey.

Yep startup sucks

In my opinion the rock is what makes a reef tank or fowler.

I could look at some nice shaped coraline covered rocks all day long.

YSS
09-27-2011, 07:59 AM
I have a very basic SW set up. The most expensive part is the liverock. But you can get away with it by mixing baserocks with live rock. Same with live sand. I have a heater and a couple of HOB filter and powerheads for water movement, and a 200W CF light fixture. You can slowly add the live rock one at a time if you want more.

I have a few soft corals, 2 clowns, 1 fire fish, and 1 royal gramma. I also have bunch of inverts. I do 4G water changes everymonth or two in a 36G tank. At the moment, lowest maintenance tank I have. I love it, but I don't go overboard with it. Good luck with it. My clowns spawn now and then. It's pretty cool.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DtjIXvt7KaM

Second Hand Pat
09-27-2011, 08:50 AM
It looks like I need $500+ worth of live rock just for the 55 gallon? No kidding when they said saltwater was pricey.

Ryan, this is why I offered the cube as a starting point and the offer is open ended. You can always add rock over time and start with a base rock as the bottom layer and add the pretty rock on top. I got a lot of my rock from these guys and they also have a base rock if you are interested in that.

http://sealifeinc.net/catalog/index.php?cPath=25&osCsid=342c468971eb62ec6a6f3bbe373402c7

I also have a 36 inch T5/MH 150 lighting fixture and in sump skimmer if you want to try those with the 55. My hubby build a DIY wall mount for the lighting fixture so it could be raised off the top of the tank to reduce heat buildup like Sean mentioned.

http://i925.photobucket.com/albums/ad95/Second_Hand_Pat/DIY%20Wall%20Mount/013.jpg

Anyway, happy to help anyway I can.

Pat

TURQ64
09-27-2011, 09:04 AM
No such thing as a simple salt tank....think 'cashflow' always.....And unless you can guarantee captive bred stock, you become a major planet violator....

ExReefer
09-27-2011, 11:56 AM
Absolutely

Get In a local reef club to curb expenses , I've never spent more than 20 bucks on a coral and have had some showstoppers.

Frags can be had for next to nothing.

Best bang for your buck on a skimmer is an octopus brand skimmer, they friggin rock.

I've always liked aquacave to buy reef supplies, he has good prices and fast shipping.

Don't buy someones rock either , buy new from a good supplier like tampabaysaltwater.

Don't under any circumstances use Tapwater, ro/di only.

I want to add to this

Take great care in selecting your lighting to go along with your tank size, reef lighting is pretty intense in some cases and can cause big problems.
Halides get hot and can cause big temp swings especially if you have a canopy. But no other lighting will match it for looks and intensity, reason I say that is because you can't get the shimmering effect with other lights.
Pay attention to what bulb you like and match it to your ballast, some ballasts don't fire all bulbs.
Electronic ballasts rock.

T5 lighting is nice and you can get some good colors out of them, but no shimmer effect.

Ya gotta pay alot of attention to lighting.

Some really good advice here! Based on my user name, you know I was a reef guy. Spent about 8 years keeping a reef tank and made lots of mistakes.
After years of insisting my tap water was "good enough", I switched over to RO/DI and my tank flourished. I should have listened to others' advice from the start, but I was trying to keep it low budget.

RO/DI and a good skimmer make the reef hobby pretty easy. Going BB with live rock helps too, but it looks unnatural.

Skip
10-08-2011, 10:24 PM
ok.. this is what i want..

Firefish.. no coral
bb
20 gallon tank.. have aquaclear filter..
i have coralight.. that takes 18" blubs..

what do i need to start? :)

Skip
10-08-2011, 10:25 PM
ok.. this is what i want..

Firefish.. no coral
bb
20 gallon tank.. have aquaclear filter..
i have coralight.. that takes 18" blubs..

what do i need to start? :)

RAVEN
10-09-2011, 12:01 AM
Be carefull, your little tank might turn into this if you have any addiction problems.
http://i1018.photobucket.com/albums/af308/hasbro/th_MVI_0595.jpg (http://s1018.photobucket.com/albums/af308/hasbro/?action=view&current=MVI_0595.mp4)

Skip
11-18-2011, 10:25 AM
ok.. i am doing it.!!

i have a 29 or 37.. i only really want fire fish.. small little 3" fish.. don't want any reef stuff.. i want to get DRY ROCK and some live sand and then let the tank sit for a couple of months.. it seems like a safe thing to do..

judy
11-18-2011, 11:22 AM
I went from a 10 gallon nano to a 125 with 40 gallon sump for two protein skimmers and a refugium. Addicting--? Hell, yeah. As much as discus or more so...
For your 55 gallon, live rock and live sand both will provide the most stable biofiltration. Get some base rock, as has been mentioned, and mix it with the LR, and get a few cups of live sand to mix with some bagged stuff, and your price point will be somewhat reduced. With live sand, you won't have to clean it. The life slithering around in it will keep the sand clean, and of you get a sand-sifting goby, that'll do the job on the surface, as well as providing a constantly changing, intersting sandscape.
The only additional equipment that is absolutely necessary is a good protein skimmer, powerheads for current (three in your tank would be good) and a good light. The 3watt CREE LED light banks that have finally shown up on the market (it took forever to get good LED lights for reefs) are the best lights, even for the price, which can be up there. They last for a decade, run nice and cool (and therefore are quiet-- no noisy fans) and provide great quality light-- and you will weaken and end up getting some corals. A FOWLR tank gets boring real fast. If you do go for a FOWLR, the light isn't as important-- and you can grow coral with T5HOs-- four over the 55 would be good. Maybe start with two and go to four if you move on to corals.

Skip
11-18-2011, 11:49 AM
FOWLR = FISH ONLY WITH LIVE ROCK.. LOL>. i get it


yes, i think it would get boring.. BUT i need start basic then move up.. :)

i can get a good light later.. since the ROCK and LIGHTS are the most expensive part

there is a pretty good CORAL ONLY place here in austin, only open on sat. 1-4pm.. so i want to check that out..

i do have an empty 75 and 125.. they could be good salt.. but i DON"T want to start with them..

i do need to save a LITTLE.. since i do have some FUTURE plans in the works with my soon to be Better half :) lol

dadecountyalan
11-18-2011, 11:50 AM
my dream tank is a 120 fowler tank. just fish and live rock. with all different types of angel fish. to me those are the most beautifull fish out there. but for now im going to stay with my discus

judy
11-18-2011, 12:09 PM
ok.. i am doing it.!!

i have a 29 or 37.. i only really want fire fish.. small little 3" fish.. don't want any reef stuff.. i want to get DRY ROCK and some live sand and then let the tank sit for a couple of months.. it seems like a safe thing to do..
If you use your HOB filter as a small HOB refugium by filling it with live rock rubble, it is much cheaper than live rock and will seed the rest of your rock and sand quite quickly...

Skip
11-18-2011, 12:11 PM
If you use your HOB filter as a small HOB refugium by filling it with live rock rubble, it is much cheaper than live rock and will seed the rest of your rock and sand quite quickly...

do you need to worry about any nasty bugs? by mixing the source

judy
11-18-2011, 01:15 PM
Unlike with freshwater, almost never are there nasties. The more varied the rock source, the more varied the potential population of good bugs, bristleworms, even copepods and amphipods (tiny snacks for fish). If you have room in the HOB and can out a small light over top of it, you can also keep chaetomorpha, a very good macroalgae, which will provide a home for those pods and for phytoplankton (great for corals if you should get one or two). The only nasties you might accidentally import are hitchhikers like gorilla crabs (evil eaters on small fish), which skulk about in the dark. But that's very rare.

alleykat0498
11-18-2011, 01:20 PM
SW is worse than smack!

I started a ten gallon fowlr and six months and thousands later...
http://img.tapatalk.com/6c7fcfa4-92be-ef41.jpg
And
http://img.tapatalk.com/6c7fcfa4-92fa-3540.jpg
And then
http://img.tapatalk.com/6c7fcfa4-936b-df4c.jpg
And then of course
http://img.tapatalk.com/6c7fcfa4-9399-b6e6.jpg

Search for a local reef club and save yourself tons of $ on everything from rock to equipment and sometimes livestock.

judy
11-18-2011, 01:56 PM
local clubs are a godsend for saving money... everything from equipment to cheap, good live rock to coral and fish. here is this addict's money-sucking tank...

http://s1235.photobucket.com/albums/ff438/waytiuk/?action=view&current=MVI_0226.mp4

Skip
11-18-2011, 01:58 PM
there is a website for AUSTIN REEF CLUB>. i am getting contacts now :)

DerekFF
11-20-2011, 01:42 PM
Skip I think rather than a local reef club you need a local aquatics anonymous addictions club ;-)

nwehrman
11-20-2011, 02:39 PM
Lol - that's pretty funny!!

Second Hand Pat
11-20-2011, 02:50 PM
Skip I think rather than a local reef club you need a local aquatics anonymous addictions club ;-)

His gf is visiting over x-mas. Maybe she can help.

Skip
11-20-2011, 08:52 PM
would one of these work on a 20g?! or should i get 2 of these fixtures..?
they are only 40 with shipping :)



Coming with 48W Power Output in total. It combines with 1 x 24W T5 HO 12,000k Fluorescent Lamp and 1 x 24W T5 HO Actinic Blue Lamp in an ultra-sleek unit. The latest 24" Aquarium Light is an excellent choice for saltwater, reef, or freshwater tropical aquariums. Furthermore, its durable German Anodized Aluminum Reflectors engineered to intensify light output. Come and get appropriate level of light and natural environment for your aquarium with this sleek and high-quality light right now!

Features:

Brand New in Box Ready to Be Operated Upon Arrival
Internal Highly Efficient Fluorescent Ballasts
Standard T5 Sockets
German Aluminum Reflector for Maximum and Optimal Lighting Effect
Non-corrosive Powder Coated Aluminum Housing
Acrylic Shield to Protect the Light from Splashing
One On/Off Switch to Control the Lamps
Well-ventilated Design with Thermovents on Both Ends of the Fixture
Mounting Brackets Conveniently Flip up
Suitable for both Natural Freshwater and Saltwater Aquarium
CE Certificated
Specifications:
Voltage: 110V
Power: 48W
Dimension: 24"L x 4 3/4"W x 2 1/4"H
Dimension with Legs: 25"L x 6 3/4"W x 5 1/2"H
Height with Legs Jacked Up: 9"
Power Cord: Approx. 91 1/2"
Package Content:

1 x 24"Aquarium Light Fixture
1 x 24W T5 12,000K Fluorescent Lamp
1 x 24W T5 Actinic Blue Lamp
2 x Flippable Brackets
Please Note: Remove all package around the light and bulbs before power on.

To Keep in Mind: The lighting choices and time vary in reference to different species, so please research the species you want to keep so that you can choose the most appropriate fixtures. And a good range of time would be anywhere from 6 to 12 hours. Fish only setups could range from 6 to 12 hours, reef tank setups and freshwater planted aquariums could range from 10 to 12 hour photo periods. Leaving the lights on for longer time periods could contribute to nuisance algae growth, higher tank temperature and quicker tank water evaporation.

judy
11-20-2011, 09:26 PM
I'd be inclined to get two. These specs sound a lot like the Current fixture I used on my 33 hex when it was a nano reef, and the lights worked very well.

Skip
11-20-2011, 09:35 PM
I'd be inclined to get two. These specs sound a lot like the Current fixture I used on my 33 hex when it was a nano reef, and the lights worked very well.

thanks judy.. thats what i was thinking :)

judy
11-20-2011, 10:29 PM
great-- this way, you can add corals when you get bored with Just Fish!!
Oh, you are gonna go so bankrupt....:bandana:

Skip
11-20-2011, 10:31 PM
great-- this way, you can add corals when you get bored with Just Fish!!
Oh, you are gonna go so bankrupt....:bandana:

what kind of corals or non fish will this kind of light support or not support?

judy
11-21-2011, 12:11 AM
Oh, loads... large polyp stony corals, zoas, mushrooms, star polyps, open brain, leather corals, green clove polyps, bubble corals, acanthastreas, bubble corals (kept higher up), galaxia, Borneman's or sand anemones, maxi-mini anemones... tons. a good local reef club will get you going with frags-- small pieces-- that are inexpesnive and grow quite quickly, given good water conditions. Just make sure the fish you stock are reef-safe. Some fish eat coral.

DerekFF
11-21-2011, 02:08 AM
In an effort to save you money (even though the simple act of owning a marine tank is a drainer) id recommend that you get fish that are coral/reef safe when you start. That way when you decide to get corals or make a reef tank you wont have spent $100's on fish that you can't have in your tank anymore. Sure sure the lfs will take them back but at a dirt fraction of what you bought them for obviously. Just trying to save you money so you can buy corals!!!!

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk

judy
11-21-2011, 12:16 PM
and you will want to buy corals... here's a vid of my reef...

http://s1235.photobucket.com/albums/ff438/waytiuk/?action=view&current=MVI_0226.mp4

Skip
11-21-2011, 12:38 PM
and you will want to buy corals... here's a vid of my reef...

http://s1235.photobucket.com/albums/ff438/waytiuk/?action=view¤t=MVI_0226.mp4

that is SWEET!!! what size is that?

judy
11-21-2011, 02:24 PM
125 gallons with a 40 gallon sump/refugium. I passed the ten thousand dollar mark long ago (the LED Vertex lights alone were $3300). Am still buying corals-- and have to sell some periodically to make room for new ones!!:D

Skip
11-21-2011, 02:32 PM
125 gallons with a 40 gallon sump/refugium. I passed the ten thousand dollar mark long ago (the LED Vertex lights alone were $3300). Am still buying corals-- and have to sell some periodically to make room for new ones!!:D

GOOOD LORD! WOW!

judy
11-21-2011, 03:06 PM
oh, yeah. even live rock here runs six bucks a pound at the cheapest, retail-- really good fiji can go for ten bucks a pound. so 300 lbs of rock or more-- about two grand (or more). plumbed custom tank, stand and sump, another two grand (i am NOT handy that way-- self-done it would be much cheaper) . then pumps, sump light, more rock for the sump... another five hundred or so... and you're up to almost eight grand and haven't even started on the live sand, the fish, and the coral... hoo-wa.

nwehrman
11-21-2011, 03:10 PM
It is a beautiful tank though....

ExReefer
11-21-2011, 03:14 PM
oh, yeah. even live rock here runs six bucks a pound at the cheapest, retail-- really good fiji can go for ten bucks a pound. so 300 lbs of rock or more-- about two grand (or more). plumbed custom tank, stand and sump, another two grand (i am NOT handy that way-- self-done it would be much cheaper) . then pumps, sump light, more rock for the sump... another five hundred or so... and you're up to almost eight grand and haven't even started on the live sand, the fish, and the coral... hoo-wa.

Let's not scare anyone off here. I agree, it can be an expensive hobby, but you can be smart about it and purchase used items and trade coral frags, etc. You don't need to purchase everything new. Get to know local reefers and get stuff at 50% discounts or more. Just like discus keeping, there are many people jumping in and out of reef keeping and will have nice equipment, coral, etc. to sell off.

Skip
11-21-2011, 03:17 PM
Let's not scare anyone off here. I agree, it can be an expensive hobby, but you can be smart about it and purchase used items and trade coral frags, etc. You don't need to purchase everything new. Get to know local reefers and get stuff at 50% discounts or more. Just like discus keeping, there are many people jumping in and out of reef keeping and will have nice equipment, coral, etc. to sell off.

hey Reefer.. whats your opinion on the light described in post #32

judy
11-21-2011, 03:56 PM
Let's not scare anyone off here. I agree, it can be an expensive hobby, but you can be smart about it and purchase used items and trade coral frags, etc. You don't need to purchase everything new. Get to know local reefers and get stuff at 50% discounts or more. Just like discus keeping, there are many people jumping in and out of reef keeping and will have nice equipment, coral, etc. to sell off.
Totally true. Much of my cost was because I bought the hardware all new. And because it's big. And some of my livestock and corals costs have been amortized over the years, since I started off with a ten-gallon nano and as stuff grew and I became ever more lustful, the tanks grew. And a lot of people go into reefing and get out of it after awhile because they find upkeep and continuing costs onerous... so there are always great used deals and home-grown coral frags around for sale.
Having said that, though, it drives me nuts when I post a coral for far less than half what it would cost retail, and somebody comes by and wants to knock my price down by half again!

Skip
11-21-2011, 03:59 PM
i found a whole group in austin of Salt water people!! its like SD but for Salt!

just not as Fun as SD!!