filter Kaldness bio media question

[MPETERS]

Hi,

I just started the 280 gal and have a question about the filter. I am using a 75 gal tank which is divided by 4" foam. In the input side I have 2 cu. ft of Kaldness bio media and four 10" air stones. With the filter running the kaldness if floating, as it should, however it seems that none of it is moving in the water stream. I am not sure how much, if any, should be moving in the water stream. I hope my question makes sense, I just don't know how the kaldness should move in the water stream if at all.

Thanks,

Mike

[Darrell Ward]

Yeah, it should move and tumble, hence "moving bed filter". Having said that, kaldness tends to want to float at first until bacteria starts covering it. It will turn tan or brownish over time as it becomes fully "cycled". Still you want it to tumble as much as possible. In my 55 gal. sump, I have six air stones, one at each corner, and two in the middle, zip tied to 1/2" sand filled pvc pipe, to hold them in place on the bottom. I also have the drain pipes coming from the overflow boxes drain underwater directly into the media. This also helps stir the media up quite a bit. After thinking about this in the past, a large air stone "disc" should also work very well in this application, as long a you have a lot of air being pumped into it. Also, I run about 1/2 cubic foot of kaldness media in my 55 gal. sump. It easily supports 20 discus. You may have to remove some of the 2 cubic feet of media at first to get it to tumble properly, and slowly add more over time. You can also move the foam closer to the sump wall to make your chamber smaller. This can help the airstones tumble the media better. my chamber is only about a foot wide, from the foam to the sump wall.

[jlcoop277]

I'm gonna be running a 55 sump with kaldness in the near future and had a question, are either of you running any mechanical filtration prior to the water entering the kaldness?

[Darrell Ward]

At first I ran a piece of Poret Foam above my kaldness to prefilter. I gave up on it because it made it too noisy for my tastes. Running the drain pipes directly into the media cuts way down on the noise, helps stir the media, and I only need to clean the sump out about once every six months anyway. It's really not a problem. The foam divider works very well as mech. To clean the sump, I use a net to remove the kaldness, put it in a bucket of tank water, pull out the foam (which can be cleaned outdoors with a water hose),and pump out the sump. A shop vac cleans out the sump tank. A wipe with paper towels, and it's put back together, refilled, and you're done.

[MPETERS]

Hi,

I was pretty sure things were not quite right. I am running this pump http://www.jehmco.com/html/lph45.html and four of these http://www.jehmco.com/html/lph45.html (10" long and 1 1/8 dia). I have also added a mag 12 that I had around. Still no movement. I will remove about half of the media and see what happens. I also have my drains at the bottom of the sump.

To answer the question, no I do not use any pre filter before the water goes into the sump.

Thanks Again,
Mike

[MPETERS]

Hi,

Well I only have about 3" of media in half the sump and still no action. I will wait and watch it over the next few weeks and see what happens.
Wish me luck,
Mike

[Darrell Ward]

Try making your compartment smaller by moving your foam. My compartment is only 12" wide, and the water just boils, and you are pumping in more air than me. You can also raise your drains some off the bottom, that will also help. Keep playing with it, you'll get it going.

[jlcoop277]

Ive been using micron filter socks for a good while now, so once I switch to the kaldness I will not need to have those?
Would you mind posting a pic?

[Darrell Ward]

You won't really need the socks. It will only add to maintence, and noise. Here's a picture from some time back. Not much to see, as it's a very simple setup...

[MPETERS]

Hi,

Well I moved my foam in as much as I could, about 4". The drain from the tank won't let me move it any more. No change. I think I will try some different air stones, the ones I am using put out very fine bubbles, I am also wondering about the pump if it is working as it should. I will talk to the vender Monday. I turned off the mag pump for now. Still the same. I will continue to try different things.

Thanks,
Mike

[Darrell Ward]

Well then, changing ends of the sump could be a possibilty. I mean, moving your filter chamber to the other end, and return pump to the end where the filter was. That may get your drain out of the way, although you may have to extend the drain pipe. It sounds like your chamber may be too large, if with all that air, you are still not getting tumbling action.

[Dkarc@Aol.com]

The bio-chamber should only be filled 50-60% MAX total volume with the Kaldnes media. Also, for small applications I have found that around 0.25CFM of air is suitable per ft³ of media to mix the media (0.15CFM/ft³ for larger applications). Of course that is also dependent upon the actual chamber dimensions/design. Keep in mind, when the media is brand new it will primarily float (i.e. minimal movement of the media will occur). Once the bacteria grow on it, it will add a little bit more weight to the media and it will move MUCH easier. This can take up to a month or two to see this happen. Dont fret, just load the media into the bio-chamber at the correct fill level and just make sure you have sufficient aeration going to the media.

The air pump you have is fine for this system, as it puts out more than enough air. The air diffusers you have are oversized drastically. That air pump can comfortably handle 2 of those air diffusers. Additional diffusers spread out the air flow and will reduce the "turbulance" in the bio-chamber. Try cutting back to just 2 diffusers and see how that works for you.


-Ryan

[Darrell Ward]

That's good advise. Ryan also helped me with my air flow when I first set mine up.

[jlcoop277]

Darrell you have a 55g sump right? What do you have taking up the other 3 foot of tank?

[Darrell Ward]

Yes, it's an old 55 gal. tank. It contains the filter, which takes up about 16" or so, 2-250 watt Jager heaters, and 2- Eheim return pumps, one for each of the 2 return lines. It allows some space to keep extra bio media and sponge filters cycled for quick tank setups. The larger sump area also allows for more total water volume.

[MPETERS]

Hi,

Thanks for all the advise. I have cut down to 2 diffusers which helped a little bit but not much. I understand that each diffuser will do about 20 LPH. I will have to add back some Kaldnes media, which, by the way Ryan, I brought from Aquatic Eco Systems. I think from the advise I have received it would be better to add it after the bacteria starts to grow, is this correct?

Again thanks for all the help.

Mike

[Dkarc@Aol.com]

Hi,

Thanks for all the advise. I have cut down to 2 diffusers which helped a little bit but not much. I understand that each diffuser will do about 20 LPH. I will have to add back some Kaldnes media, which, by the way Ryan, I brought from Aquatic Eco Systems. I think from the advise I have received it would be better to add it after the bacteria starts to grow, is this correct?

Again thanks for all the help.

Mike

Our basic instructions for our commercial bio-reactors is to add half the media now, and the other half in several weeks. So yes, add half of the media now, and the remainder in several weeks.

-Ryan

[MPETERS]

Hi,

Thanks Ryan, I will do that.

Mike

[Darrell Ward]

When I set mine up, I did it with less than half the media. I had an established tank with a big fish load, so I dumped the media I had been using into the bottom of the sump to help seed the Kaldness, and threw a few more handfuls of Kaldness in every couple of weeks. It cut way down on the "floaters" that way.

[MPETERS]

Hi,

I have a 150 that has been set up for the past 12 years, however, it is filtered by two Fluval 404's. Would it help if I took some water out of that tank and put it in the new one??

Thanks,
Mike

[Darrell Ward]

No, but if you took bio media from the filters and placed it in your sump it would.

[MPETERS]

Hi,

I can sure do that. I will take the bio out of one of the filters and put it in the sump. Hopefully one day I will get this thing working as it should. Thanks,

Mike

[MPETERS]

Hi,

Well my Kaldness is now "rock'n and roll'n", lots of movement. Thanks for all the help. As soon as my manz. sinks (it is soaking now) I will complete my aquascaping and should be ready for fish (not discus yet). Can't wait.

Thanks Again,
Mike