A Tale of Two Sponsors... Discus Origins and HEK Discus

[hekdiscus]

Dear Friends

I'd like to apologize for my absence in the forum, but I was traveling and when I returned I was also very busy with matters behind.

I would also like to inform you that my partnership with Mr. Mark Chen did not work properly, it did not like the quality of my fish, sent in the last load, I did my best, sending fish of excellent quality, but unfortunately he did not like . I would like to ask those who bought the fish if you are satisfied with the quality?

Mark has his own judgment and version for the facts, I can explain here my side of the story. I am an honest person and do not want to create here a controversy with most fights, I think we are adult enough for that.


He says the worst fish I sell to the American market, and the best for Asia. this is not true.
I offer the same fish for both markets, but the choice is up to the importer, not for me to decide what to order., We have fish of different values, some can cost more than $ 100.00 for the fisherman and fish that I pay more expensive and has cost more expensive are sold more expensive it is logical and natural, they come in my company costing over $ 150.00 and are sold expensive, more expensive and are sold faster for fanatics discus.


I decided to stop supplying fish for Mark, (Discus origin)
I just think he is not ready to deal with wild discus, this is the truth.
To import fish you need to get acclimated fish and wait for the fish to adapt and only after a few days is that you can deliver to your customers, Mark hoped that the fish arrived without stress like the pictures in my tank, and this is impossible, the fish were within three days until he gets bags, and should spend at least another 15 days with him, until complete recovery to deliver to customers, but was not made isos. He promised to deliver in the same week of arrival, people were marking the visit to collect the fish that was on your web audience.


And I do not accept work that way it is wrong for any one who understands the transportation of fish know it if someone thinks will make money fast by importing and automatically delivering the fish, this completely wrong,


Who knows Fish knows what I'm talking about, who received the H & K Discus know that we maintain the high quality, just ask who has one of my fish in your tank.

I respect the American public who received me very well here in this forum, I built a good friendship with dozens of people and I know that many are satisfied with my fish.

I will not deceive the public with my fish of low quality and low prices, I have my name to protect.

I was the only vendor to post here the certified sustainable fishery accompanied by the organ of supervision and control of Brazil, I'm the one that works with universities and research with scientists, and to have this activity sustainable for the environment, species, fishermen and companies, it must follow the new philosophy.

Fishing for selling large volumes at low prices will wipe out the species and I will not be part of this cycle wrong.

Who has a fish in the H & K knows that there is a social, environmental and economical to preserve the Amazon, this is the big difference


I show my certificates here, and I doubt others do the same.

I participate in the preservation of the Amazon and its natural resources sustainably, and I will not cooperate with the destruction of our resources


Hudson Crizanto
H&K Wild Discus Brazil

see the documents below:

http://i782.photobucket.com/albums/yy107/HudsonHek/Unini01.jpg

http://i782.photobucket.com/albums/yy107/HudsonHek/discus_piagacu_jornal.jpg

http://i782.photobucket.com/albums/yy107/HudsonHek/Ornamentais_Piagacu_purus.jpg

http://i782.photobucket.com/albums/yy107/HudsonHek/Ornamentais_Piagacu_purus2.jpg

http://i782.photobucket.com/albums/yy107/HudsonHek/AutorizacaoIngressoAmana001.jpg

http://i782.photobucket.com/albums/yy107/HudsonHek/HKImportaoeExportao-Fortaleza.jpg

http://i782.photobucket.com/albums/yy107/HudsonHek/5-5.jpg

[hekdiscus]

I will soon announce a new partnership based on quality, we sell fish with the same quality as always, respecting the amazon, fishermen and forest, sell fish that are helping to preserve the Amazon, we will deliver a certificate for each batch of fish traceability and scientific papers to show the seriousness and difference, who has an environmental conscience know what I'm talking about and know will appreciate it.

Best regards

Hudson Crizanto
www.hek.com.br

[Discus-n00b]

I've been happy with all fish I've gotten from you Hudson. All are healthy and color up very well, nice shapes too. Like I told Mark, I've never done business with discus (importing/selling/etc) and I have no idea what went on behind closed doors or the specific reasons behind the split, so I have no right to comment on that side of things. But being the buyer of fish yours have never personally let me down. Maybe I don't know what to look for specifically, but I know what looks nice to me and I know the basics. Having had some of your fish for 10 months now I know it takes a while for them to show their full potential. I take what I can get in the US, the market hasn't been well represented here for a while with wilds and I respect those that try like Mark and Hans. Maybe that means buying wilds from someone else, but I'm SO glad I got some of yours when I had the chance.

I've been a fan of yours and your fish for a while now Hudson you know that. You are always open and honest and honestly you do the best job taking pics and video of your fish and their habitat to show all of us. Always sad to see your fish not being brought into the states, I hope to see them here again in the future. You set the bar high IMO, and I always look forward to posts in this thread.

[YSS]

I own total of 8 of your fish, Hudson. All from Hans last year. They are all very nice except for one that I paid $80. I guess one of those lesser quality fish, but still a good deal for $80. I guess you get what you pay for. Good luck with your venture in the US. I agree that a market for the very top quality fish is very small in the US. I ordered a few of your angels through Mark. I hope they are just as nice as the high quality discus that you've provided.

[hekdiscus]

I own total of 8 of your fish, Hudson. All from Hans last year. They are all very nice except for one that I paid $80. I guess one of those lesser quality fish, but still a good deal for $80. I guess you get what you pay for. Good luck with your venture in the US. I agree that a market for the very top quality fish is very small in the US. I ordered a few of your angels through Mark. I hope they are just as nice as the high quality discus that you've provided.


I've been happy with all fish I've gotten from you Hudson. All are healthy and color up very well, nice shapes too. Like I told Mark, I've never done business with discus (importing/selling/etc) and I have no idea what went on behind closed doors or the specific reasons behind the split, so I have no right to comment on that side of things. But being the buyer of fish yours have never personally let me down. Maybe I don't know what to look for specifically, but I know what looks nice to me and I know the basics. Having had some of your fish for 10 months now I know it takes a while for them to show their full potential. I take what I can get in the US, the market hasn't been well represented here for a while with wilds and I respect those that try like Mark and Hans. Maybe that means buying wilds from someone else, but I'm SO glad I got some of yours when I had the chance.

I've been a fan of yours and your fish for a while now Hudson you know that. You are always open and honest and honestly you do the best job taking pics and video of your fish and their habitat to show all of us. Always sad to see your fish not being brought into the states, I hope to see them here again in the future. You set the bar high IMO, and I always look forward to posts in this thread.

Dear Friend, I thank all of you to participate in dedication of my post, I'm happy when I see a tank cared for with love and dedication as your case Discus-n00b, it is gratifying to see that people like you have love for fish and well take care, that my friend is priceless ,You are an example of a hobbyist who loves first and foremost hobby , Your post with the details of your tank Awaken the attention of people around the world, even in China I have seen people with pictures of your aquarium.

Keep doing your best my friend

Hudson

[hekdiscus]

I own total of 8 of your fish, Hudson. All from Hans last year. They are all very nice except for one that I paid $80. I guess one of those lesser quality fish, but still a good deal for $80. I guess you get what you pay for. Good luck with your venture in the US. I agree that a market for the very top quality fish is very small in the US. I ordered a few of your angels through Mark. I hope they are just as nice as the high quality discus that you've provided.


Dear YSS

I also could not leave to thank you and I know qu is also evokes a dedicated hobbyist and I'm sure that also takes care of his discus perfectly, do not worry I'm taking care of the angels in quarantine to send to Mark with total quality, first of all the satisfaction of my clients is always first, and I'm sure anyone who owns one of my fish has no regrets behind them there is a beautiful story of dedication and sustainable use of natural resources, a serious work.

Hudson Crizanto

[Discus Origins]

Dear Friends

I'd like to apologize for my absence in the forum, but I was traveling and when I returned I was also very busy with matters behind.

I would also like to inform you that my partnership with Mr. Mark Chen did not work properly, it did not like the quality of my fish, sent in the last load, I did my best, sending fish of excellent quality, but unfortunately he did not like . I would like to ask those who bought the fish if you are satisfied with the quality?

Mark has his own judgment and version for the facts, I can explain here my side of the story. I am an honest person and do not want to create here a controversy with most fights, I think we are adult enough for that.


He says the worst fish I sell to the American market, and the best for Asia. this is not true.
I offer the same fish for both markets, but the choice is up to the importer, not for me to decide what to order., We have fish of different values, some can cost more than $ 100.00 for the fisherman and fish that I pay more expensive and has cost more expensive are sold more expensive it is logical and natural, they come in my company costing over $ 150.00 and are sold expensive, more expensive and are sold faster for fanatics discus.


I decided to stop supplying fish for Mark, (Discus origin)
I just think he is not ready to deal with wild discus, this is the truth.
To import fish you need to get acclimated fish and wait for the fish to adapt and only after a few days is that you can deliver to your customers, Mark hoped that the fish arrived without stress like the pictures in my tank, and this is impossible, the fish were within three days until he gets bags, and should spend at least another 15 days with him, until complete recovery to deliver to customers, but was not made isos. He promised to deliver in the same week of arrival, people were marking the visit to collect the fish that was on your web audience.


And I do not accept work that way it is wrong for any one who understands the transportation of fish know it if someone thinks will make money fast by importing and automatically delivering the fish, this completely wrong,


Who knows Fish knows what I'm talking about, who received the H & K Discus know that we maintain the high quality, just ask who has one of my fish in your tank.

I respect the American public who received me very well here in this forum, I built a good friendship with dozens of people and I know that many are satisfied with my fish.

I will not deceive the public with my fish of low quality and low prices, I have my name to protect.

I was the only vendor to post here the certified sustainable fishery accompanied by the organ of supervision and control of Brazil, I'm the one that works with universities and research with scientists, and to have this activity sustainable for the environment, species, fishermen and companies, it must follow the new philosophy.

Fishing for selling large volumes at low prices will wipe out the species and I will not be part of this cycle wrong.

Who has a fish in the H & K knows that there is a social, environmental and economical to preserve the Amazon, this is the big difference


I show my certificates here, and I doubt others do the same.

I participate in the preservation of the Amazon and its natural resources sustainably, and I will not cooperate with the destruction of our resources


Hudson Crizanto
H&K Wild Discus Brazil

see the documents below:

http://i782.photobucket.com/albums/yy107/HudsonHek/Unini01.jpg

http://i782.photobucket.com/albums/yy107/HudsonHek/discus_piagacu_jornal.jpg

http://i782.photobucket.com/albums/yy107/HudsonHek/Ornamentais_Piagacu_purus.jpg

http://i782.photobucket.com/albums/yy107/HudsonHek/Ornamentais_Piagacu_purus2.jpg

http://i782.photobucket.com/albums/yy107/HudsonHek/AutorizacaoIngressoAmana001.jpg

http://i782.photobucket.com/albums/yy107/HudsonHek/HKImportaoeExportao-Fortaleza.jpg

http://i782.photobucket.com/albums/yy107/HudsonHek/5-5.jpg

Dear Hudson,

I appreciate the opportunity to work with you, I am sorry you feel this way and I wish you good luck with the next supplier for you in the US. But I do want to clarify a few of your points since you posted this to a wide audience:

'He says the worst fish I sell to the American market, and the best for Asia. this is not true.
I offer the same fish for both markets, but the choice is up to the importer, not for me to decide what to order., We have fish of different values, some can cost more than $ 100.00 for the fisherman and fish that I pay more expensive and has cost more expensive are sold more expensive it is logical and natural, they come in my company costing over $ 150.00 and are sold expensive, more expensive and are sold faster for fanatics discus.'

Offer and ship is not the same thing. This does not mean you send the same fish to US and Asia/Europe, it mean you ship $500-700 quality fish to Asia and $150-300 to US. You promise me you were sending me your best fish, then when I complained about quality you said I needed to pay 30-50% more for better fish?

'I just think he is not ready to deal with wild discus, this is the truth.'

I have been importing fish since 1996, kept wild discus off and on for over 15 years, I also have bred wild discus. I personally have fish from WBSabby, Hudson and Santarem thru different sources and seen the differences...but I guess I could still be new at this :)


'To import fish you need to get acclimated fish and wait for the fish to adapt and only after a few days is that you can deliver to your customers, Mark hoped that the fish arrived without stress like the pictures in my tank, and this is impossible, the fish were within three days until he gets bags, and should spend at least another 15 days with him, until complete recovery to deliver to customers, but was not made isos. He promised to deliver in the same week of arrival, people were marking the visit to collect the fish that was on your web audience. And I do not accept work that way it is wrong for any one who understands the transportation of fish know it if someone thinks will make money fast by importing and automatically delivering the fish, this completely wrong'

You speak of acclimation to bring out quality...I will only say no amount of time will repair broken stress bars, different sizes and bad shape. The only customers to receive their fish within 3 days were 2 people who wanted to come see the facility and pick out their own fish. They were aware the fish would still be stressed. All other orders were acclimated for 14 days before shipping. If I was in this to make money fast I would not have invested $30k in a warehouse facility.

Hudson, I have not posted anything negative about you regarding our business partnership. I will continue to act professional and only clarify the points above and not say anything more. We have one final shipment of angels that you have agreed to send in good faith for the customers who ordered and I also have some credit owed for DOAs and defective fish. I would hope that you stand by your word and complete our last transaction.

[hekdiscus]

Why you should buy a fish quarantine?
look at my analysis of feces of the fish are in quarantine, that is what we do in order to ensure the best quality, only after detecting any parasites or worms is that medicated our fish, with the guidance of our veterinarian. Rodrigo, I need your help, please , translate the contents of this laboratory test results for everyone to understand how to work correctly

http://i782.photobucket.com/albums/yy107/HudsonHek/exame02.jpg
http://i782.photobucket.com/albums/yy107/HudsonHek/exame01.jpg


Hudson

[Larry Bugg]

Hudson,
I had no intention of posting my thoughts or impressions of the group of Wild discus Mark imported from you. In fact, when I made the trip to Mark's place he specificially asked me to not share pubilically what I thought. He felt it was best to let you and him work out your differences and keep it from becoming public. He talked with everyone who had ordered to apprise them of what he thought of the shipment and thought it best to leave it at that. He thought it would be unprofessional to air his issues in public.

Since you brought it up and have asked for those who received wilds from the shipment to speak up I think it is only fair that I do so. You statements make it sound as if Mark is off base and too critical. It also sounds like you are saying Mark doesn't understand Wilds. I have the upmost respect for Mark and I know his intentions were to bring better quality wilds to the US then we normally receive. Mark has been keeping and breeding Wilds for a long time now and he has a eye for quality. I was pleased that he was going to be importing wilds because I felt I would recieve what I was looking for.

When I arrived at Mark's place my initial reaction and response to him was that what I was seeing were not the same discus that I saw in your videos. I am well aware that it takes wilds a much longer period of time to settle in than it does domestics and I'm sure this had some to do with that initial reaction, but not all. Because I had the opportunity to drive and get my wilds in person, I saw the entire shipment that had survived the shipping problems. This gives me the abiltiy to comment not ony on the wilds I received but also the whole shipment. Because I was able to pick my fish from the entire shipment I was able to choose the best of them all. For this reason I am pretty happy with the discus I recieved. Of the 5 I believe that 4 will turn out to be really nice. The 5th one has poor shape but I think the color will end up being quite nice. Two of the ones I received were not what I would consider as large but more of a medium size. Keep in mind that I was first to choose so mine were the best. Here are some of issues that I noticed with the shipment. The entire shipment was suppose to be large but quite a few appeared to be mediums. Of all the Discus that were shipped as Royals I only thought 4 of them measured up to my expectations. One of the two royals I received will probably turn out to be a royal but the striations were quite faint. Some of the others that were suppose to be royals just didn't look to have the potential even after they settle in. Several did not have the shape I thought discus of this quality should have. One of the discus had a very short gill plate and there was one that looked like it had been bitten by a piranha, the wound was healed but the scaring was there. Several of the discus in the shipment had broken stress bars.

Again, this is just my personal impression which you asked for. I know that Mark discussed each of these issues with you and sent you pictures of what his issues were. I'm dissappointed that it has come to this end but I do wish you the best.

My expectation was that the entire shipment would be of the same quality and that just wasn't what I saw.

[hekdiscus]

Dear Hudson,

I appreciate the opportunity to work with you, I am sorry you feel this way and I wish you good luck with the next supplier for you in the US. But I do want to clarify a few of your points since you posted this to a wide audience:

'He says the worst fish I sell to the American market, and the best for Asia. this is not true.
I offer the same fish for both markets, but the choice is up to the importer, not for me to decide what to order., We have fish of different values, some can cost more than $ 100.00 for the fisherman and fish that I pay more expensive and has cost more expensive are sold more expensive it is logical and natural, they come in my company costing over $ 150.00 and are sold expensive, more expensive and are sold faster for fanatics discus.'

Offer and ship is not the same thing. This does not mean you send the same fish to US and Asia/Europe, it mean you ship $500-700 quality fish to Asia and $150-300 to US. You promise me you were sending me your best fish, then when I complained about quality you said I needed to pay 30-50% more for better fish?

'I just think he is not ready to deal with wild discus, this is the truth.'

I have been importing fish since 1996, kept wild discus off and on for over 15 years, I also have bred wild discus. I personally have fish from WBSabby, Hudson and Santarem thru different sources and seen the differences...but I guess I could still be new at this :)


'To import fish you need to get acclimated fish and wait for the fish to adapt and only after a few days is that you can deliver to your customers, Mark hoped that the fish arrived without stress like the pictures in my tank, and this is impossible, the fish were within three days until he gets bags, and should spend at least another 15 days with him, until complete recovery to deliver to customers, but was not made isos. He promised to deliver in the same week of arrival, people were marking the visit to collect the fish that was on your web audience. And I do not accept work that way it is wrong for any one who understands the transportation of fish know it if someone thinks will make money fast by importing and automatically delivering the fish, this completely wrong'

You speak of acclimation to bring out quality...I will only say no amount of time will repair broken stress bars, different sizes and bad shape. The only customers to receive their fish within 3 days were 2 people who wanted to come see the facility and pick out their own fish. They were aware the fish would still be stressed. All other orders were acclimated for 14 days before shipping. If I was in this to make money fast I would not have invested $30k in a warehouse facility.

Hudson, I have not posted anything negative about you regarding our business partnership. I will continue to act professional and only clarify the points above and not say anything more. We have one final shipment of angels that you have agreed to send in good faith for the customers who ordered and I also have some credit owed for DOAs and defective fish. I would hope that you stand by your word and complete our last transaction.
Mark.

Mark, what you have to learn is to be humble, so you earn more, I'm not the best nor the biggest, but I try to do my best, and you have success because only one who comes here to talk something, I have no one else unhappy, that's a good sign from my point of view.

even though you are a beginner I respect and know that in time you will learn more .... And I wish all luck in the world.

I will not even your post, post and try to prove anything, you're a large company, traditional and old, no need to explain. and not learn anything, you're the guy ......
but I can decide, and I decided not to sell my fish to you, that was my choice.

I'm not going to disrespect the people here that this space visit me and enjoy my work and they know how much I am honest, and who also know my fish, and do not need any proof, I need not report to my audience, my audience is smart enough to know what happened, here we are not in a classroom of children or adolescents, I believe we are among adults.
I hope not to continue with this disrespect for participants simplydiscus forum, because this space dozens of people visit daily and seek new and interesting subjects, I'm not going to continue fighting any child.

Hudson Crizanto

[Second Hand Pat]

I'm at work on the moment but will state that I was also there with Larry and share the same observations that Larry posted.

[hekdiscus]

Hudson,
I had no intention of posting my thoughts or impressions of the group of Wild discus Mark imported from you. In fact, when I made the trip to Mark's place he specificially asked me to not share pubilically what I thought. He felt it was best to let you and him work out your differences and keep it from becoming public. He talked with everyone who had ordered to apprise them of what he thought of the shipment and thought it best to leave it at that. He thought it would be unprofessional to air his issues in public.

Since you brought it up and have asked for those who received wilds from the shipment to speak up I think it is only fair that I do so. You statements make it sound as if Mark is off base and too critical. It also sounds like you are saying Mark doesn't understand Wilds. I have the upmost respect for Mark and I know his intentions were to bring better quality wilds to the US then we normally receive. Mark has been keeping and breeding Wilds for a long time now and he has a eye for quality. I was pleased that he was going to be importing wilds because I felt I would recieve what I was looking for.

When I arrived at Mark's place my initial reaction and response to him was that what I was seeing were not the same discus that I saw in your videos. I am well aware that it takes wilds a much longer period of time to settle in than it does domestics and I'm sure this had some to do with that initial reaction, but not all. Because I had the opportunity to drive and get my wilds in person, I saw the entire shipment that had survived the shipping problems. This gives me the abiltiy to comment not ony on the wilds I received but also the whole shipment. Because I was able to pick my fish from the entire shipment I was able to choose the best of them all. For this reason I am pretty happy with the discus I recieved. Of the 5 I believe that 4 will turn out to be really nice. The 5th one has poor shape but I think the color will end up being quite nice. Two of the ones I received were not what I would consider as large but more of a medium size. Keep in mind that I was first to choose so mine were the best. Here are some of issues that I noticed with the shipment. The entire shipment was suppose to be large but quite a few appeared to be mediums. Of all the Discus that were shipped as Royals I only thought 4 of them measured up to my expectations. One of the two royals I received will probably turn out to be a royal but the striations were quite faint. Some of the others that were suppose to be royals just didn't look to have the potential even after they settle in. Several did not have the shape I thought discus of this quality should have. One of the discus had a very short gill plate and there was one that looked like it had been bitten by a piranha, the wound was healed but the scaring was there. Several of the discus in the shipment had broken stress bars.

Again, this is just my personal impression which you asked for. I know that Mark discussed each of these issues with you and sent you pictures of what his issues were. I'm dissappointed that it has come to this end but I do wish you the best.

My expectation was that the entire shipment would be of the same quality and that just wasn't what I saw. Dear Lary.

Discus improperly handled by the airline and after 03 days in the bags need extra care, and bars are the stress in my videos you will not see the bars because they are without stress

I gave the option to donate the fish to the forum and I return the money with all costs for him, do not understand why he chose to stay with the fish without quality?? why?

[hekdiscus]

I'm at work on the moment but will state that I was also there with Larry and share the same observations that Larry posted.


Dear Friends eggs have been broken, no good talking about who is right or wrong, I tried to support and restore the two fish that arrived dead fish and the other defective in the next shipment no cost to him, but it was not possible, he preferred to use words arrogant and do not build a good business relationship, just destroy it, I have my point of view that he is a beginner, it is his view that my fish are all crap and without quality, and it does not will change.

.

We have no way back

I apologize to everyone for that

[Discus-n00b]

And I wanted to also state that I did not get the chance to drive to Mark's and see the fish in person when they first came in, Mark held them an extra week for me (very thankful for that), so mine came in already looking better then what Pat told me others looked like.

But still I found mine to be what I wanted. Some apparently were smaller then expected but I told Mark size isn't as important as color potential or things like shape to me.

[Discus Origins]

Dear Lary.

Discus improperly handled by the airline and after 03 days in the bags need extra care, and bars are the stress in my videos you will not see the bars because they are without stress

I gave the option to donate the fish to the forum and I return the money with all costs for him, do not understand why he chose to stay with the fish without quality?? why?

Oh dear Hudson, you say no more discussion, yet you want to continue to speak negatively.

Why? Because as I told you, I did not want my money back....I want quality fish to sell. I have a business with rent, cost of tanks, utilities, employees. I pay you money, you give me same money back, how does a business survive with zero profit?? I sell the fish because I explained to the customers and they agree to accept the fish, not because the were top quality, but they were better quality than any other local vendor.

You agree now they were bad and you wanted them donated to forum? Why so you look like the good guy in this and leave me looking like the bad person? That is your idea of a good partnership? Please, hope the public is more educated than to think you are an angel.

You are now on possible your 3rd supplier for US. Hans no longer does business with you, HIS decision. You decided not to ship me fish AFTER I gave you second chance to make things right. You realized that you couldn't sneak anymore bad fish past me so you didn't want to do another shipment. Why did you send me email to 'start over new' when you returned from Europe only to come back and and go back on your word and change your mind? Lets make sure everyone knows the story.

I hope that you will practice some humility and not continue to post on this subject. I have every single email saved between us from 2 months before the shipment when you promised everything to now when you blame everything on me. I did not start this and only respond to what you post.


Dear Friends eggs have been broken, no good talking about who is right or wrong, I tried to support and restore the two fish that arrived dead fish and the other defective in the next shipment no cost to him, but it was not possible, he preferred to use words arrogant and do not build a good business relationship, just destroy it, I have my point of view that he is a beginner, it is his view that my fish are all crap and without quality, and it does not will change.

Hudson, how was next shipment going to happen if you decided not to ship me fish? That is my question.....and how did I receive defective fish if you only send top quality?

[hekdiscus]

Oh dear Hudson, you say no more discussion, yet you want to continue to speak negatively.

Why? Because as I told you, I did not want my money back....I want quality fish to sell. I have a business with rent, cost of tanks, utilities, employees. I pay you money, you give me same money back, how does a business survive with zero profit?? I sell the fish because I explained to the customers and they agree to accept the fish, not because the were top quality, but they were better quality than any other local vendor.

You agree now they were bad and you wanted them donated to forum? Why so you look like the good guy in this and leave me looking like the bad person? That is your idea of a good partnership? Please, hope the public is more educated than to think you are an angel.

You are now on possible your 3rd supplier for US. Hans no longer does business with you, HIS decision. You decided not to ship me fish AFTER I gave you second chance to make things right. You realized that you couldn't sneak anymore bad fish past me so you didn't want to do another shipment. Why did you send me email to 'start over new' when you returned from Europe only to come back and and go back on your word and change your mind? Lets make sure everyone knows the story.

I hope that you will practice some humility and not continue to post on this subject. I have every single email saved between us from 2 months before the shipment when you promised everything to now when you blame everything on me. I did not start this and only respond to what you post.



Hudson, how was next shipment going to happen if you decided not to ship me fish? That is my question.....and how did I receive defective fish if you only send top quality?


Mark respects the forum, and be done with it.
will not do anything to know who is right or wrong.
Eggs have been broken........

[hekdiscus]

"Simply friends,
*
I understand that this is getting past the point of being constructive and in danger of getting out of hand, and that is not what I had in mind when I posted this morning. I take my work and my reputation very seriously and sometimes wear my emotions on the tip of my fingers...
*
I assure you that I sent Discus Origins the best possible fish, at the price points he chose to order, period. There was no subterfuge involved, or bait and switch tactics; he asked for certain fish and received them.
*
Upon receiving them and not being happy with what he got, he contacted me and I asked him to have patience with them and, after holding them for a few days, we would talk about what to do next, Mark inferred that I sent him poor quality fish*so I offered him a full, 100% re-fund of the cost of shipping and fish, as well as a 20% bonus on top of it all with one condition; send the fish to those who ordered, at no cost other than shipping.
*
My intent was to assure that those who ordered the fish would get them, I asked that the receivers of the fish make a donation to Simply Discus on my behalf instead of paying the price of the fish.
*
Let me make this clear, I offered to re-fund the fish plus shipping, and an extra 20% on top of it all, and was willing to give the fish away for free with the only beneficiary being Simply Discus. Are those the actions of someone that is not serious about his business?
*
I also made the decision of not continuing the relationship with Discus Origins, and that is a right I have. I want a partner in the US that wants to work with me in growing the market there, a relationship built on mutual respect and a common goal.
*
I wish Mark all the best and continued success in his new ventures.
*
Sincerely,
*
Hudson"

[hekdiscus]

Sounds like no angels .... :(
Dear friend, I will keep my word and I will send the angel fish, after quarantine, all healthy and in perfect condition, I will not fail to meet my end customers, who are you, even though the Mark to receive the fish.
the problem happened to him and will not affect my relationship with my clients and friends of the forum, you can not be harmed because of my problem with Mark

[Discus Origins]

I offered him a full, 100% re-fund of the cost of shipping and fish, as well as a 20% bonus on top of it

I retract my prior post about the offer not existing...in going back I found you did make the offer, I apologize Hudson for the mistake. It was lost in all the emails and looking back I should have accepted your offer as financially I would have been in a better position.

I will be exiting this thread and respect Hudson's space.

[hekdiscus]

Here you will not answer any more subject related to Mark.
This space was created to be used for growth of the hobby and not for fighting and problems between the sponsors, I will ask the staff of the administration to withdraw all of this forum posted by both parties and give an end to this history of child wanting prove who is greater than another.

I assume I'm the dwarf's story and Mark is the Giant

Mark please shut her mouth and word of this post, you will not Modifies what I think about you.

Hudson

[brewmaster15]

Hi all,
I have split this thread out of the Amazon section where it really did not belong and have moved it to the review forum. I chose the name of the thread as I did because this is an exchange between two sponsors and sellers on the Forum that unfortunately did not work out.

I wish Both sponsors all the best, and hope that this is over and put to rest so they can both Continue on with their business plans.

Regards,
Al

[jimmyjoe]

To all that has been affected by this turn of events about the quality of wilds that were sent to us from Hudson of Heks Discus. I didn't want voice my displeasure but was urged to by what I said to Mark earlier on, I was not given the choice to choose my wilds when they came in. So just like some have said they got to choose the pick of the litter you might say, I am happy with my wilds let me say that up front. I was disappointed though in what was delivered and what I was expecting from what we had to pay for these discus. The quality in my eyes was not there, from the tank shots to the video's I do not see the same quality in what I received. I hope that one day we that are receiving the quality discus can actually say we have some quality discus in our tanks. Again I want to say that I was expecting better from you Hudson, I wonder what the people or market that gets the better quality discus are paying compared to what we had to pay for these. This is just my opinion, thank you .................Jim in Ohio

[Kingdom Come Discus]

First I would like to say, I am so sorry this did not turn out well for Hudson or Mark. I was getting my hopes up for those RSG. I can only hope to see Mark bring some top quality RSG into the States in the near future.

I would also like to add I was very happy with all 20 of Hudson's fish I received from Han's last year. Were they the best of the Wilds available to the world? Of course not. Not when a high quality wild fish in Japan are selling for a average of 58,000 yen right now. Yes over $700.00. I have seen the best of the best listed in Japan for 300,000 yen, nearly $4000.00 and you better believe the fish was sold. Last year in my quest for show fish I was offered three of the top winning spotted fish from Malaysia for $1200.00 each. These were fish which had already won big in various show in Asia.

I know first hand how it feels when one suddenly realizes they may not be able to deliver the fish which they promised. This sick feeling is only multiplied by 10 when you have taken deposits for pre-orders and have had many who trusted you well enough to have paid in full upfront. After the scare last spring I made up my mind to never sell fish again on a pre-order basis. There is just way to much that can go wrong. Also I, have made it a point to only pay the importer for half of the shipment total until the fish which were ordered have arrived and have turned out to be what was promised, (this tactic may prevent me from ever bringing fish back into my fish room), but I would rather not deal with that level of stress again.

Not all suppliers are going to stand behind the fish they ship, in fact I believe most would not, especially by offering a full refund.

Good luck to all involved and I can't wait to see the Angels when they arrive.

[Discus-n00b]

To be honest, its hard to judge if you don't see them in person....not sure you can judge without seeing them. I like both of these guys very much, I have nothing against either and I would buy fish from either again in a heartbeat. But to make such comments nikon, is IMO, not correct especially on the grounds that you were looking at pictures. Granted, Mark, Pat, and Larry who saw them all in person rather then a select group, would be a better judge then me....not one of mine had a bad shape. Mark I'm sure did some quality control before shipping, but still it wouldn't be fair to say they all have bad shapes, or all are small. 2 of mine rival my Piwowarksi JUMBO Red Turqs that I have who are at least 6-7". The pictures most saw were from Hudson's QT tanks, not like his planted display tank with fish in there for 9+ months. Just like the pictures sent to Hans before.

Yes one of mine was on the small size, but the shape and potential of them look to be very good based on the ones I received from Hans. Which by the way were not the prettiest, perfect fish at first either. I can put size on them, no problem. I know with Hudson's fish I'm getting healthy, quality (IMO), and a true location of the fish. These fish eat and are colorful very soon after coming out of the bag, not like an LFS wild that stays dark for weeks and hides in the corner.

I've said it before, maybe I'm in the minority I don't know. But like I said, I've got nothing against either of these guys (Hudson or Mark) and I'm not going to get into the politics or their personal business dealings. I'm all about the fish. I am happy with the fish I received, just like I was when Hans brought them in and I'm very happy with the service from Mark.

I'll be sure to take pictures of these in 10 months to make some people see, "ugly ducklings" as some might consider them can turn into pretty awesome swans. First impressions shouldn't always hold true for wilds, they change so much. If anyone has any that look bad like this that they want to get rid of let me know lol ;);). This one is new, and the 2 on the right as well. Maybe I'm crazy I don't know, I'll go put my glasses on.
http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c172/clemmatt/centerbar1.jpg

With that being said, I look forward to staying in contact with Hudson and hearing about his adventures in the Amazon and see all of his great pictures. And I also look forward to what Mark has in store for the US wild market in the future. Thanks Hudson for sending me fish that I am thrilled to have in my tanks, and thank you Mark for making that possible and being a trustworthy, honest, easy and great vendor to work with. Thumbs up to both, even if the partnership did not work out. :thumbsup:

[hekdiscus]

Hello
I've been out and returned only in the Amazon today. ( in Santarem )
Now , in the next month I will return to provide the best discus for the U.S. market, provided as always, high quality,
but now with a new partner and professional manner, the customer will be able to choose H & K Discus there in the United States, and will not depend on a request, nor to remove the fish after arrival. I wanted to give this topic closed, but since he has opened ......

Wait for H & K North America said the price and pictures of fish tanks there in the United States, a unique way to guarantee that you will buy this right and this will avoid mistakes.

Best regards

Hudson

[Discus Origins]

[QUOTE=hekdiscus;827857]Hello
I've been out and returned only in the Amazon today. ( in Santarem )
Now , in the next month I will return to provide the best discus for the U.S. market, provided as always, high quality,
but now with a new partner and professional manner, the customer will be able to choose H & K Discus there in the United States, and will not depend on a request, nor to remove the fish after arrival. I wanted to give this topic closed, but since he has opened ......

QUOTE]

Hudson,

I have not posted regarding this subject since Al moved the thread to this section. I can not control if members want to give their feedback or opinion. Please do not involve me in 'reopening the topic'. To me the topic is closed and I have moved on to different partnership. May you be successful with your new partner in the US and I wish you lots of luck.

[hekdiscus]

[QUOTE=hekdiscus;827857]Hello
I've been out and returned only in the Amazon today. ( in Santarem )
Now , in the next month I will return to provide the best discus for the U.S. market, provided as always, high quality,
but now with a new partner and professional manner, the customer will be able to choose H & K Discus there in the United States, and will not depend on a request, nor to remove the fish after arrival. I wanted to give this topic closed, but since he has opened ......

QUOTE]

Hudson,

I have not posted regarding this subject since Al moved the thread to this section. I can not control if members want to give their feedback or opinion. Please do not involve me in 'reopening the topic'. To me the topic is closed and I have moved on to different partnership. May you be successful with your new partner in the US and I wish you lots of luck.

Mark, if I posted it bother you that is your problem, I'm just telling people that follow my work for me a professional is a wholesaler who buys larger volumes and otherwise different from yours with a few boxes, please respect my opinion, I will send 20 or 30 boxes for the United States and with attractive prices as well, because the wholesalers for the condition is much better, and also best for Discus lovers, everyone will gain from this, the competition is good for everyone.

Hudson

[Discus-Hans]

[QUOTE=Discus Origins;827911]

Mark, if I posted it bother you that is your problem, I'm just telling people that follow my work for me a professional is a wholesaler who buys larger volumes and otherwise different from yours with a few boxes, please respect my opinion, I will send 20 or 30 boxes for the United States and with attractive prices as well, because the wholesalers for the condition is much better, and also best for Discus lovers, everyone will gain from this, the competition is good for everyone.

Hudson

Now this all starts to irritate me Hudson with all the talk about high quality, bigger orders, do you want me to post the pictures of some of the Discus I got in last shipment????????? And I didn't make small orders.

Hans

[pcsb23]

Folks, please only post 1st hand experiences as per http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showthread.php?83559-Feedback-...ALL-READ-THIS!!!!! and http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showthread.php?55403-PLEASE-READ-BEFORE-POSTING

Thanks.

[hekdiscus]

[QUOTE=hekdiscus;828079]

Now this all starts to irritate me Hudson with all the talk about high quality, bigger orders, do you want me to post the pictures of some of the Discus I got in last shipment????????? And I didn't make small orders.

Hans
Go ahead ..... Hans