Anyone using a water softener without ro?

[fredfry]

I have read where some are using water from a water softener without ro with success.
I have also read where some actually had the fish jump from the tank to escape the water.
I am just getting started by doing research and have no fish yet.

Thanks Fred

[Ike]

Hey Fred,

I'm very interested in hopefully getting a response from someone with experience in water softeners and aquariums. The water in my area is very hard, 500ppm+, and I would be able to add a softener, but I'm worried the salt/sodium from the softener might be detrimental to the fish or actually achieving soft water.

[ericatdallas]

What are you trying to accomplish. First, I don't have experience with RO or water softeners, but I've been around here enough to know that some here grow out their Discus in very hard water (RO reject water in some cases).

My tap water has 350-400ppm and I have no problems with it. 500ppm does seem pretty high.

Breeding is the biggest issue with hard water though, and you'll need an RO filter for that.

Again, this isn't from experience but hopefully it's a quick answer for you while some of the more experienced guys get around to answering your question. I plan to breed soon so I'm adding a RO unit, not even considering softener using salt.

If you do a search, this question has been asked many times though and the answer above is the typical response.

[Ike]

Hey Eric,

I've got R/O but it only makes so much at a time. In preparation for a breeding pair(s) I would really like to find out if adding a water softener to the house itself would be a more effective way to have a mass amount of soft water, while also saving my fixtures/shower heads and things. Or If the water from a water softener actually is not good for the fish.

[fredfry]

Thanks for the reply eric.

I too have read that some people do grow up juvies in hard water, but breeding is something else and ro is required.

I guess what I am asking is my water too hard for raising juvies?
I don't have a tds meter but I have checked my water hardness with api test kit.

Tap water

gh 431
kh 185
ph 7.9

Softener water

gh 0
kh 190
ph 7.9

Thanks Fred

[Laurent]

If you are talking about ion-exchange water softening, I think the answer depends on how hard the water is you are starting with. In my case, with moderately hard water ((varies between 90-110 ppm), I use tap water straight out of my whole-house ion-exchange softener without problem. Have done so without issue for 3 years with my adult discus (not wilds!).

My guess is that if you start with 500pm+ hardness, the nacl level might be too high for discus straight out of the ion exchange softener.

[Laurent]

Ooops. You posted while I was typing the above, so most of my last post is besides the point.

I don't think you will have any problems growing out juvies in your tap water as described. I would not attempt to use the softener water, because you will have a very high concentration of just salt in that water.

[ericatdallas]

Thanks for the reply eric.

I too have read that some people do grow up juvies in hard water, but breeding is something else and ro is required.

I guess what I am asking is my water too hard for raising juvies?
I don't have a tds meter but I have checked my water hardness with api test kit.

Tap water

gh 431
kh 185
ph 7.9

Softener water

gh 0
kh 190
ph 7.9

Thanks Fred

If it's growout, I don't think it'll be a problem. Most anecdotal evidence points that hard water (due to calcium and magnesium) is good for Discus growth. Also, most research for food fish show that calcium in the water helps the fish develop better and grow faster.

I grew my Discus out from 1" using my water which is pretty hard.

[Apistomaster]

I have kept and successfully bred wild S. haraldi in tap water with a pH of 7.6 and dGH of 15 degrees.
I had excellent hatches and fry survival rates.
Most domesticated strains of Discus are very adaptable.
The only time I would bother using extremely soft acid water is when I am trying to keep and breed Green Discus or Heckel Discus. I gave up trying to breed Heckels as have most people who have tried but the Greens will breed but only do well in moderate to very soft water.

I recommend using an RO/DI unit for wild green Discus and Heckel water.
You can achieve the same results using two stage cationic and anionic cartridges which are refillable but I think the bottom line cost per gal is going to be about the same with either method.
The ion exchange resins are rechargeable using strong acids and bases depending on the exchange resin so most people exchange it at a water quality control equipment specialists since mose home hobbyists are not in a good position to deal with the toxic waste byproducts involved in recharging ion exchange resins.

I recently replaced my old RO/DI unit with a Typhoon III from www.airwaterice.com and this 150 gpd unit comes with a lot of nice bells and whistles for only about $280.
You get an in-line TDS meter and a hand held TDS/EC meter plus all the tubing, fittings and an auto-shut off valve and float switch for your RO water storage container(s).
It is a heck of a good deal for all you get. Here is all their product information:
http://www.airwaterice.com/product/1EXTREMETYPHOONIII/EXTREME-TYPHOON-III-150-GPD-RODI-with-Gauge-TDS-Alarm-Dual-TDS-Meter.html

[gwrace]

We are on a private well system and tried using the water out of the softener. We never had very good results. I now process the water from the softener through an RO unit then re-add the minerals that I want. The fish have flourished and I usually have several pairs on eggs at any given time. The softened water makes the RO filters last a long time.

[shoveltrash]

ok, so I'm an exception here........
I have a whole-house softening system, that I cannot bypass (bought the house with this attached to the well). we have VERY hard water, in fact I just tested GH of the straight well water (only piped to my horse barn), and it's off the charts - took 19 drops for the API test fluid color change, and the conversion chart only goes to 12 drops!
caveat: I'm VERY new to Discus, and did not know any better about the salt-softening system when I started. however my AF have done great this past year with the softened water, and SO FAR (4 months), my Discus are doing fine too. the term "fine" is pretty subjective, but they are growing, have voracious appetites, and have remained healthy.

interesting that you posted this Fred, because I'm going to start a separate thread of my own on this same subject - with detailed water parameters.
I don't have much choice in the matter of "softened water" or "straight well water," because of my whole-house system :(.
you are lucky that your tap water is so good! good luck to you :)