RO Here I Come

[Second Hand Pat]

Well, you guys will be proud and the wilds relieved. I just ordered a 100 GPD RO unit from Aquatic Eco-Systems. This is the place Ryan (Dkarc@Aol.com on SD) works at and it's local to me. I asked him for suggestions and ordered the RO unit, an inline TDS meter and a shutoff valve.

It should be here sometime after X-mas.

[Rummy]

Yippee! Please let us know how the whole setup goes and stuff. Also get before and after pictures of the fish. Please, please. I have heard how the fish just shine with the RO.
Is this going for the whole house, or is it dedicated to the fish?

[Second Hand Pat]

Anik, I have one of the house. This one is dedicated to the fish. I have fish pics all over this forum....you need more lol??

[Rummy]

Lol. No, no. Just wanted to see if the fish really do shine more in RO. I've read several times that the fish actually look better when in RO. OK. Just an after shot, then; once they are all acclimated and such.:o
I am still toying with the idea and want to know if it is worth it. I don't trust the water here after hurricanes and water/power outages.
Still chuckling;)

[Second Hand Pat]

Aw no worries, I post pics so often I think folks here are a bit bored with them. You know Anik, you could store water for such things without having to go the RO route.

[dbfzurowski]

Hey Pat,
Planning some breeding??

[Second Hand Pat]

Yes Dominik, the Cuipeua F1s with the Cuipeua adults if I'm very lucky. Think the F1s give me a shot at success.

[Keith Perkins]

Can't wait for the results. :D

[Second Hand Pat]

Can't wait for the results. :D

Me too Keith but the age of the F1s puts me at least a year out. Unless I can figure out how to woo a wild female.

[Rummy]

Aw no worries, I post pics so often I think folks here are a bit bored with them. You know Anik, you could store water for such things without having to go the RO route.
Yep. I have my aging barrel and a 600 gallon cistern for the apartment. Problem is when the water returns, we may have a a couple of days that the water company adds more chlorine to the municiple water and they tell us to add clorox to the cisterns. God only knows what other nasties are on that water. My aging barrel is only 45 gal. Most of the time, I don't think I really need an RO. When I start analyzing those worst case scenarios, is when I really wonder if it is necessary or not. I guess I see it as insurance. Maybe in the north, it is the same as having extra heaters. Don't know.

[Keith Perkins]

Me too Keith but the age of the F1s puts me at least a year out. Unless I can figure out how to woo a wild female.

Personally I'd suggest you try leaving that to one of your male discus...just my opinion you understand.

[Second Hand Pat]

Personally I'd suggest you try leaving that to one of your male discus...just my opinion you understand.

Yea...you know what I mean ;)

[Keith Perkins]

Sorry, I temporarily forgot you spoke in binary. :)

[Second Hand Pat]

Sorry, I temporarily forgot you spoke in binary. :)

and hex, octal and 2s complement. :)

[Second Hand Pat]

RO comes tomorrow :)

[TURQ64]

piece of cake..Don't use the product water for a half hour or so to let anything purge from the unit....

[Second Hand Pat]

Thanks Gary, I will setup the whole thing outside at first to check for leaks, do some testing and like you say flush the system.

[Keith Perkins]

I can almost hear your fish saying "Oh mommy" now. Hopefully things will get busy in the crow nest after this little installation is complete.

[Second Hand Pat]

We shall see Keith, will need to ease everyone in slowly plus need to determine if I add back in some tap or re-mineralize the water.

[Keith Perkins]

I would expect you'll have to do something, though I'm not sure what TDS you shoot for with wilds. My vote would be ROright.

[Second Hand Pat]

If I recall correctly a good target TDS for wilds is about 70. A little research is in order however.

[TURQ64]

works for me...isn't that part of the state limestone bedrock?...plenty of minerals if so

[Second Hand Pat]

works for me...isn't that part of the state limestone bedrock?...plenty of minerals if so

Yup Gary, straight from the Florida aquifer. Over 330+ feet down.

[Jason K.]

Yup Gary, straight from the Florida aquifer. Over 330+ feet down.
Oh how I wish I had that water to work with Pat. Congrat's on the R.O. unit...

[Second Hand Pat]

Oh how I wish I had that water to work with Pat. Congrat's on the R.O. unit...

Jay, great for raising fry in, not so good for maintaining wilds or breeding. Of course with all the fry you have :)

[Second Hand Pat]

So the new RO unit is sitting in the utility room sink with water running through it to flush it. It has a water pressure gauge reading just under 50 psi. The new TDS meter (dual inline once the RO unit is mounted) reads 233 out of tap and currently reading 14 out of the RO unit.

On a side note hubby has agreed to a 150 gallon water storage tank from tractor supply :)

[Keith Perkins]

Merry Christmas to Pat I guess.

[Second Hand Pat]

Merry Christmas to Pat I guess.

Merry Christmas to the fishes Keith. Actually we have been talking about this for six months for no surprises for the hubby. Considering putting the storage tank on the back porch.

[jimg]

So the new RO unit is sitting in the utility room sink with water running through it to flush it. It has a water pressure gauge reading just under 50 psi. The new TDS meter (dual inline once the RO unit is mounted) reads 233 out of tap and currently reading 14 out of the RO unit.

On a side note hubby has agreed to a 150 gallon water storage tank from tractor supply :)Tds will drop to about 6 or so after a few gallons go through. under 50 you should really have a pump. good luck with it

[Second Hand Pat]

Like 65 psi right Jim?

[Keith Perkins]

Yup, 65.

[jimg]

Yup, 65.+1

That is where I keep mine but I was able to raise the pressure regulator due to having town water. You can keep it below 50 as I have for a few years with no problems, just that it will raise the waste to ro ration, wont hurt anything keeping it that low, may even extend the membrane life.

[Second Hand Pat]

Thanks Jim

I setup the RO unit on the back porch and can fill a 44 gallon brute can in a little over 12 hours. I'm pumping that to my inside WC barrows and am transitioning two tanks to the RO/tap mix (50/50 currently). Ph out on the RO unit is 6.4 and tank ph is 7.8 so doing a slow transition downward.

I got a 100 gallon water storage tank from tractor supply and will be setting that up on the back porch (for now) once we fit the tank with a drain/hose bib and I receive the vinyl tubing needed to run the distance between the WC barrow and the storage tank then can pump from the 100 gallon storage tank.

[Darrell Ward]

Cool. PH 6.4 is much better than 7.8. My water is 6.0 out of the faucet, but has a bit of nitrate. Someday, I would like to get RO just to get rid of it. A local company builds these bad boys. I have my eye on one these for "my retirement 5000 gal. dream tank". LOL!

[Second Hand Pat]

Darrell, that's a beast, would need it's own room or shed.

[Darrell Ward]

Yeah, processes 5 gpm, which makes it worth the space, but means most "normal" people have to pump water into it, so I might as well pump clear, mountain creek water into it. No big deal, as it can be backflushed for cleaning. You can get much larger units however, but geeez! LOL!

[nc0gnet0]

Pressure is a bit on the low side, I am amazed that you are getting that much production, just curious, what is the water temperature to the unit? As crappy as my water is here (400 ppm 8.4 PH) I have been blessed with good pressure (75 psi). If you ever need to increase production, you can add an additional membrane and splice it in to double production. I have done that as well as add a second complete unit in which I input the waste water of the first unit into the second unit to minimize my water production.

[Second Hand Pat]

Yeah, processes 5 gpm, which makes it worth the space, but means most "normal" people have to pump water into it, so I might as well pump clear, mountain creek water into it. No big deal, as it can be backflushed for cleaning. You can get much larger units however, but geeez! LOL!

Depends on what you need I guess.


Pressure is a bit on the low side, I am amazed that you are getting that much production, just curious, what is the water temperature to the unit? As crappy as my water is here (400 ppm 8.4 PH) I have been blessed with good pressure (75 psi). If you ever need to increase production, you can add an additional membrane and splice it in to double production. I have done that as well as add a second complete unit in which I input the waste water of the first unit into the second unit to minimize my water production.

Rick, it's a 100 GPD unit and water temp is in the low 70s coming out of the ground. I can put a booster pump on it but waiting to see if it supplies the demand. Good idea on the second unit.

[nc0gnet0]

I see, I never new the ground water in florida was so warm ;) Here it is a pretty steady 55, you get more production with warmer water.

[jimg]

Pressure is a bit on the low side, I am amazed that you are getting that much production, just curious, what is the water temperature to the unit? As crappy as my water is here (400 ppm 8.4 PH) I have been blessed with good pressure (75 psi). If you ever need to increase production, you can add an additional membrane and splice it in to double production. I have done that as well as add a second complete unit in which I input the waste water of the first unit into the second unit to minimize my water production. I added a piggy back membrane like that before but ended up just using 2 separate units with 50+psi. from what I understand you need at least 75psi to piggy back 2 membranes. I am able to adjust my town water with the regulator so I got it at 75 but turned it back down because i wasn't getting all that much more water and with it blasting into the sinks/shower like that too much was wasted by kids in the showers for 45mins!

[nc0gnet0]

Interesting, I doubled my water output piggybacking them, but I do have 75 psi. No kids here so the shower isn't an issue.

[Darrell Ward]

Well, that's good and all, but I hate waiting all day for tiny amounts of water to run through tiny tubing. Industrial size baby! :)

[Second Hand Pat]

Well, that's good and all, but I hate waiting all day for tiny amounts of water to run through tiny tubing. Industrial size baby! :)

And spendy :)

[Darrell Ward]

And spendy :)

LOL! That's why I'm still saving.:)

[Second Hand Pat]

LOL! That's why I'm still saving.:)

For a while I bet ;)

[jimg]

Well, that's good and all, but I hate waiting all day for tiny amounts of water to run through tiny tubing. Industrial size baby! :)I was trying to find pics of the two 3000w uv sterilizers that were put in a treatment plant the co i work for just built to go along with your ro system!
That is something!

[Darrell Ward]

That's what you call "nuking it"! LOL!

[jimg]

here ya' go! one you can see the other is next to it, the silver part with the black end is the chamber

http://i965.photobucket.com/albums/ae137/jimgalb/IMG00421-20110817-1339.jpg

[Darrell Ward]

Dang! :)

[Second Hand Pat]

here ya' go! one you can see the other is next to it, the silver part with the black end is the chamber

http://i965.photobucket.com/albums/ae137/jimgalb/IMG00421-20110817-1339.jpg

Serious water treatment

[Second Hand Pat]

So playing with RO/RO reject mixes...RO TDS is about 11, PH 6.4 :). RO reject TDS is about 240, PH 8.2. So mix about 10% RO reject water in a 33 gallon Brute, TDS 30, PH 7.4. :( I think.

Seems to me to get the TDS up about the 50-70 range the PH will be pretty high. Wondering if I need a different approach?

[Second Hand Pat]

So tested gh and kh, each required four drops so both 71.6 ppm.

[pcsb23]

Pat what are you using to measure the pH of the RO?

[Second Hand Pat]

Pat what are you using to measure the pH of the RO?

Paul, I have an API master kit which comes with a pH and high pH tests. These are liquid tests.

[pcsb23]

Paul, I have an API master kit which comes with a pH and high pH tests. These are liquid tests.OK just curious :)

Over the years I have tried re-mineralising it with RO waste and filtered tap water and tbh it hasn't been the most successful thing I ever did. I get way better results using re-min salts in terms of water params and results with the fish etc. The waste contains a concentrate of rejected minerals and other stuff like nitrates and phosphates, whole point of RO is to remove this stuff. I guess what I am saying is try some re-min salts and see how that goes.

[Keith Perkins]

From Paul's lips to my tanks. :D

[Second Hand Pat]

Thanks Paul, that was the rethink part and looking for inputs. Like you sort of leaning towards the reconstituted RO.

[Second Hand Pat]

From Paul's lips to my tanks. :D

Thanks Keith :)

[Darrell Ward]

I think you'll find, (unless you're lucky) that finding a "magic number" amount of water to add back to RO that makes it stable every batch is difficult. IMO, much better to add something like RO Right to straight RO water. In this way you can get the very same "cloned" result every time. Also, people saying it costs to much to use such products is just plain BS unless a person is homeless. Products like RO Right are dirt cheap when you figure cost per gal.

[Second Hand Pat]

So against everyone's (overall) advice I am adding about 10% RO reject water to my RO product water. My resulting water parameters are Ph 7.4, TDS 30, GH 4 dGH or 71.6 ppm, KH 4 dKH or again 71.6 ppm in the WC barrows. Have two tanks (75 QT and 75 w/sump with two pairs) totally transitioned and transitioning the two larger tanks (230 and 100)...so far, so good. Had one of the breeding pair's eggs make it to eyeball stage prior to being eaten (75 w/sump) and have had two wild Tefe spawns in the 230 (TDS 120, Ph 7.4).

So far I am liking the results. Also while the 230 is still transitioning feel that the Tefe's have a better overall look (could have talked myself into this) :)

To compare, prior to RO the tap was Ph 8.2 (7.8 in tanks) and TDS 230s. GH and KH are 161 ppm for comparison.

[Darrell Ward]

Little doubt that changes in water parameters triggered the spawning activity. Whatever works, but I'm still of the opinion that better, and more stablized results can be had with remineralized RO.:) Hard to argue with spawning activity however.