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View Full Version : Peruvian Altums...Give me all your info!



chiligum
12-30-2011, 03:13 PM
The more i have been looking, the more i want them.
I know these Angels are not the real Altums but a Scalare lookalike but has anyone kept these and what information can anyone tell me about these fish as i need to know as much as possible and the net just seems to have mainly info on Scalare or Altum and not inbetween.
My tank is only 25.5 inches high so i know that Altums are probably out of the question but how about Peruvian Altums, would they fit?!
There are 5 wild on ebay (uk obviously!) for 19 quid each and it's got me wanting...Thanks for any info anyone has!;)

Discus Origins
12-30-2011, 03:35 PM
You have it backwards, the Peruvian Altums are the real thing, it's the Brazilian or Rio Negro Altums that are perhaps a scalare/hybrid/species. Easy way to tell, real Altums are the hypersensitive quick to die without a cause ones. Just clarifying :)

chiligum
12-30-2011, 04:48 PM
Ha ha ha, cheers geezer!...They have a green tinge on them and aren't the usual silver colour that the usual Altums have.
I read somewhere that the Peruvian wasn't a true Altum but was just given that name, oh well, you live and learn:D

nikond70s
12-30-2011, 05:24 PM
i used to keep peruvian angels/peruvian altums. its easy to tell the difference from a true altum and other wilds. altum just have that special unique body and high fins with thick bars. a lot easier to keep then altums. and they mature very slowly. you wont be able to see there nice colors till there like 1 year old. not as nice as altums but they are still stunning when mature and some do get quite large. like most wild fish they prefer dim light calm environment. they're color stands out more in blackwater with low lighting. and amazon biotope would def make them happy. when i had mine i didnt do anything special to them. to me they were fairly easy to care for. once they adapt they are just as hardy as any fish. i currently keep wild altums...they are one year old and they are very hardy once they adapt. goodluck

chiligum
12-30-2011, 07:18 PM
Thanks for taking the time to give me some info, much appreciated mate!


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Ryan
12-31-2011, 04:28 AM
You have it backwards, the Peruvian Altums are the real thing, it's the Brazilian or Rio Negro Altums that are perhaps a scalare/hybrid/species. Easy way to tell, real Altums are the hypersensitive quick to die without a cause ones. Just clarifying :)

I don't think this is correct, Mark.

True Pterophyllum altum come from the Orinoco basin and the Rio Negro, which puts them in Venezuela and parts of Colombia and Brazil. True altums are usually more brown/yellow in color, have thicker stress bars, and are much larger.

The fish that have been sold for years as "Peruvian Altum" are actually just a Peruvian scalare variant. They have a notched nose like altums, but have characteristics that are notably scalare, including the thinner stress bars and more silvery base color. I've kept wild Peruvian scalare multiple times and they're definitely not altums.

damba
12-31-2011, 05:47 AM
As above they should be referred to as p cf scalare and may be a distinct sp but not altum. You tank height is fine. Treat them like discus as they are a little delicate but lovely. Btw in europe these are being crossed with altums and being sold as tank bred altums. Buyer beware.

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pcsb23
12-31-2011, 06:14 AM
Peruvian altums are a scalare and not an altum. They are beautiful fish in their own right, but 19 each is too rich. As for your tank not being high enough for p. altum, I disagree, it is imo/e. If you want the real deal then David Lai has some.

Discus Origins
12-31-2011, 09:51 AM
I don't think this is correct, Mark.

True Pterophyllum altum come from the Orinoco basin and the Rio Negro, which puts them in Venezuela and parts of Colombia and Brazil. True altums are usually more brown/yellow in color, have thicker stress bars, and are much larger.

The fish that have been sold for years as "Peruvian Altum" are actually just a Peruvian scalare variant. They have a notched nose like altums, but have characteristics that are notably scalare, including the thinner stress bars and more silvery base color. I've kept wild Peruvian scalare multiple times and they're definitely not altums.

You are totally right Ryan, my mistake in geography lol ! Yes I was thinking Orinoco basin but must have had a brain fart as Venezuela/Colombia was what I was thinking but Peru took over as I was typing :)

chiligum
12-31-2011, 11:38 AM
So i was right to begin with then?!...I thought i had read right about them.
I wanted to keep Altums but i'm sure my tank is much too small, it's only a 25.5 inch cube which holds 70 US Gallons. I only want 5 but reading some of the stories about them, i think they may be too dificult to keep, Scalare are bulllet proof IMO but these are a different ball game!
I just thought the Peruvian variety would be hardy like normal Scalare but something a bit different to the everyday fish, so does anybody know if they get the same size as regular Scalare or a bit bigger?
Thanks again!

chiligum
01-01-2012, 07:22 AM
Peruvian altums are a scalare and not an altum. They are beautiful fish in their own right, but 19 each is too rich. As for your tank not being high enough for p. altum, I disagree, it is imo/e. If you want the real deal then David Lai has some.
What would be the minimum gallons though for 5 (plenty of wt etc) and what details can you give me of David Lai? Thanks mate!

pcsb23
01-01-2012, 09:13 AM
What would be the minimum gallons though for 5 (plenty of wt etc) and what details can you give me of David Lai? Thanks mate!Your 70 gallon tank will be plenty, I'd put 6 to 8 in there .... http://www.discusforthediscerning.com/page8.htm for details on David's altums

Ryan
01-01-2012, 09:38 AM
Sometimes wild Peruvians can be rough on each other. I raised out six in a 55 gallon and they beat the heck out of each other until they started to get sickly and die, one by one. Eventually I had to upgrade them to my 150 gallon community where the additional size and distraction from tankmates seemed to curb some of the conspecific aggression. Just keep your eye on them and be mindful of how they're treating one another.

chiligum
01-01-2012, 12:20 PM
Well if they're a bit more aggressive,they sound like they're not so wimpy and won't keel over and die like the Altums might then:)


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Aquanero
01-08-2012, 07:34 AM
I currently have a group of six F0 Peruvian Sclare and they are doing fine. I've had them for a couple of months now housed with five Mesonauta egregius, I agree with with Ryan's comment, a comunity setting in a large tank tends to curb any conspecific agression. Mine are a little less then silver dollor size eat well and act/look very healthy. I've had no trouble getting them to eat NLS Thera +A 1mm pellets which is thier staple diet. They seem to enjoy slightly subdued lighting a lot of wood and tall plants to swim and hang in and generally act peacefull with and ocasinoal chase if terrotories are breached. They were a little rough looking when I first got them but they are filling out and growing nicly.

chiligum
01-09-2012, 02:12 PM
Cheers Tom, I have a single Altum and am thinking about various Scalare strains just for a bit of contrast in my tank.

bonsai dave
01-15-2012, 04:54 PM
Here are a few pictures of my wife's Peruvian Atlums. We have had them for a year now. They are in a 90 gallon community tank.
http://i1006.photobucket.com/albums/af181/bonsaidave78/beth%20tank/DSC_4351.jpg
http://i1006.photobucket.com/albums/af181/bonsaidave78/beth%20tank/DSC_4330.jpg
http://i1006.photobucket.com/albums/af181/bonsaidave78/beth%20tank/DSC_4331.jpg

http://i1006.photobucket.com/albums/af181/bonsaidave78/beth%20tank/DSC_4368.jpg
http://i1006.photobucket.com/albums/af181/bonsaidave78/beth%20tank/DSC_4374.jpg
http://i1006.photobucket.com/albums/af181/bonsaidave78/beth%20tank/DSC_4378.jpg

chiligum
01-22-2012, 09:37 AM
They are beautiful fish!
I've just managed to get hold of 5 more Altums so I might not have any more room left for any more fish.
Those wilds are a thousand times better looking than the domestics IMO!


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Majones32004
02-10-2012, 09:54 PM
Bonsai Dave,

May I ask where you made your purchase of your Peruvians? I have a group of 24 of these but none of them really display the yellow markings found on the 1st, 2nd, 4th, and 5th pictures. I have been trying to find this variant for a while now.

Darrell Ward
03-16-2012, 04:46 AM
Snookn had some of these Peruvian angels recently. He gets them from time to time. I got a group of 8 from the latest bunch. One died the first day, but the rest have been doing great. They appear to still be young, so they may develop more color later, I don't know. I've never had them before, but they are cool fish. From looking at different pictures on the net, they do seem to come in slightly different shades, with silver always as the main color. Perhaps this is due from fish collected in different areas, with slightly different genetic makeup, and water parameters.

pcsb23
04-12-2012, 08:54 AM
Snookn had some of these Peruvian angels recently. He gets them from time to time. I got a group of 8 from the latest bunch. One died the first day, but the rest have been doing great. They appear to still be young, so they may develop more color later, I don't know. I've never had them before, but they are cool fish. From looking at different pictures on the net, they do seem to come in slightly different shades, with silver always as the main color. Perhaps this is due from fish collected in different areas, with slightly different genetic makeup, and water parameters.Still one of the nicest angels out there, for me they are second only to Altums, lovely fish Darrell.

Darrell Ward
04-12-2012, 10:02 PM
I agree. Thanks Paul.

Second Hand Pat
04-12-2012, 10:22 PM
Wow Darrell, didn't know you had these little beauties. They are gorgeous.

CrazyAngels
04-13-2012, 02:18 AM
Darrel, I also agree with Pat, I sure hope they grow nice and big for you. I hope to see an update on them in about 6 months, I can only imagine what beauties they can become. Best of luck, specially if they end up pairing up for you.

Darrell Ward
04-13-2012, 01:03 PM
Thanks. Pat, we just moved to a new house last weekend. All my tanks and fish are still at the old house. Feeding and water changes are done after work at the moment, until all the tanks and fish are moved. Not what I had in mind, but I now have a fish house! At least temporary. LOL!