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DiscusBR
01-06-2012, 08:09 AM
Hi everyone,

I have been facing a bad brown algae (BA) problem and I need help. I have learned here in the forum that BA is common in recently established/cycled tanks, but my 80g has been running for 8 months and the problem has not improved. Recently, I had a 10-day trip. When I came back, the pool filter sand (PFS), the Manzanita branches and the 3D background were all taken by brown algae. Here is a pic that I showed in another thread:

http://i1230.photobucket.com/albums/ee482/DiscusBR/Nov2011/Jan2012149.jpg

Thinking that my PFS might have silicates (a source for BA), I took all sand out the tank and decided to go BB. I also took out almost all Manzanita branches (left only a small one). After a few days, it is clear that the cause of BA was not the PFS or the driftwood. The brown algae came back full force. It has now taken over the tank's bottom glass.

The tank's setup: 80g tank with 3D background, one Eheim 2217 canister filter, two sponge filters, one T5 54W lamp that stays on for 6 hours per day. The tank is accross the room from a window that is always covered by a thin curtain. Thus no direct sun light in the tank.

Water parameters: ph 6.2, ammonia and nitrites 0 ppm, nitrates 5.0 ppm.

I got a phosphate test kit. It shows 0.5 mg/l in my tap water and in my tank water. Is that normal or high? Is that level of phosphate the cause of all my algae problems?

What should I do? I read that some people use RO to get rid of phosphates in the tank. Any experiences? There are also filter media like Seachem's PhosGuard that you can put in the canister filter to clean the phosphate. Has anyone used it?

My 7 discus are healthy now, but the algae problem has been a pain and quite frustrating. Any help is welcome.

Thanks in advance.

Skip
01-06-2012, 10:20 AM
how often do you water change?

DiscusBR
01-06-2012, 10:51 AM
how often do you water change?

Two 60% WCs per week.

Skip
01-06-2012, 11:26 AM
i found that when i let my water changes go.. the brown stuff would grow.. my bristlenose pleco don't really like it..

so i wipe it down and then did more water changes.. then it stays away..
well for me it did :)

ps.. i don't know much about your light..

ExReefer
01-06-2012, 11:38 AM
I used to run one T5HO bulb on my 75G BB discus tank. I always fought brown algae on the bottom of the tank even though my photo period was only 6 hours. T5HO bulbs are just too intense and not needed on discus tanks (unless growing plants). I sold the 75G and picked up a used 125G with two plain old 30W flouescent bulbs and I no longer have alage issues with a photo period of 7 hrs. a day. As a solution, you can raise your light above the tank or block the intensity with some window screening.

Chicago Discus
01-06-2012, 11:43 AM
Up the water changes and the algae will go away........IMO......Josie

DiscusBR
01-06-2012, 12:11 PM
i found that when i let my water changes go.. the brown stuff would grow.. my bristlenose pleco don't really like it..

so i wipe it down and then did more water changes.. then it stays away..
well for me it did :)

ps.. i don't know much about your light..

Thanks, Skip. How often do you need to wipe it down to keep the algae away? Is it brown algae?


I used to run one T5HO bulb on my 75G BB discus tank. I always fought brown algae on the bottom of the tank even though my photo period was only 6 hours. T5HO bulbs are just too intense and not needed on discus tanks (unless growing plants). I sold the 75G and picked up a used 125G with two plain old 30W flouescent bulbs and I no longer have alage issues with a photo period of 7 hrs. a day. As a solution, you can raise your light above the tank or block the intensity with some window screening.

Thanks, ExReefer. That is a possibility and there is a way to test if that is the case. Since I have no plants in the tank right now I can leave the lights off. I will clear the tank once more, leave the lights off, and see what happens.

I have few questions that I would like to hear feedback:

- Is 0.5 mg/l a normal phosphate level or can it be the source of my algae problems?

- Has anyone used RO to control algae?

- Has anyone used Seachem's PhosGuard or a similar product?

Thanks in advance.

DiscusBR
01-06-2012, 12:12 PM
Up the water changes and the algae will go away........IMO......Josie

I was not really willing to do more than two 60% WCs with full wipe downs per week. Something must be wrong if I get a lot of algae in just 3 days.

Discus Origins
01-06-2012, 12:16 PM
Mauro,

Couple of things are standing out to me. First is that this occurred after you were gone for 10 days, second is that there is silicates in the tap water.

Did your fish sitter do WCs while you were gone? I saw pictures of the BA and also all the fuzzy white gunk in the tank that usually results from uneaten rotted food. It appears to be a case of overfeeding not enough WCs while you were gone. If you have taken out the sand and driftwood, been doing 50% WCs daily since you've been back it should have resolved the problem.

Now, if the BA came back worse AFTER doing WCs, this would lead me to believe the cause could be the silicates. Every time you do a WC you're removing some but also adding back in silicates. Eventually you will get a build up in the tank over time and silicates could rise to a high enough level to sustain constant algae growth. In that case adding more tap water would not resolve the problem.

Have you tested the tank water for silicate level? Would need more info for proper advice.

As to your question on RO, yes many use them to remove impurities from tap water such as silicates, phosphates, nitrates, etc that all contribute to algae growth. I've only used the Phosguard once on my reef tank, it was only slightly effective. After I started using RO water didn't have algae problems in that tank.

ExReefer
01-06-2012, 12:22 PM
Do a major WC before the lighting experiment. Keep in mind that even with limited light, you'll get BA if you go too long between WC's. If the water builds up too much nitrate, silcates, etc., BA will grow.

CajunAg
01-06-2012, 12:31 PM
Would adding some sort of simple plant life - life Java moss - perhaps help to starve the brown algae?

Chicago Discus
01-06-2012, 12:34 PM
Im just thing if you do more water changes more frequently it might help......

ExReefer
01-06-2012, 12:39 PM
Would adding some sort of simple plant life - life Java moss - perhaps help to starve the brown algae?

Those plants don't grow fast enough to soak up the excess nutrients. You would need some fast growing stem plants for that to work and unfortunately, more light.

Skip
01-06-2012, 12:41 PM
Im just thing if you do more water changes more frequently it might help......

if he wants to

DiscusBR
01-06-2012, 12:51 PM
Thank you, Mark. Reacting to some of your points:


First is that this occurred after you were gone for 10 days (...) Did your fish sitter do WCs while you were gone? I saw pictures of the BA and also all the fuzzy white gunk in the tank that usually results from uneaten rotted food. It appears to be a case of overfeeding not enough WCs while you were gone. If you have taken out the sand and driftwood, been doing 50% WCs daily since you've been back it should have resolved the problem.

My friend did one 60% WC during my absence, but he did not wipe the background, the glass and the driftwood. The problem got worse during my absence, but I have been fighting BA for more than 7 months. The problem existed before and continued after my absence. I assume that daily WCs will solve any type of algae problem. But I am working with the assumptiong that two 60% WCs per week would be a very reasonable schedule. I don't want to do daily WCs in a display tank.

EDIT: I forgot to add that overfeeding was not the cause of the problem. During my absence I drastically reduced the food ammount.


Now, if the BA came back worse AFTER doing WCs, this would lead me to believe the cause could be the silicates. Every time you do a WC you're removing some but also adding back in silicates. Eventually you will get a build up in the tank over time and silicates could rise to a high enough level to sustain constant algae growth. In that case adding more tap water would not resolve the problem.

Have you tested the tank water for silicate level? Would need more info for proper advice.

That is a possibility. However, I don't have a test for silicates and I assume it would be difficult and very expensive to get one here in Brazil. But I will try.


As to your question on RO, yes many use them to remove impurities from tap water such as silicates, phosphates, nitrates, etc that all contribute to algae growth. I've only used the Phosguard once on my reef tank, it was only slightly effective. After I started using RO water didn't have algae problems in that tank.

I might end up trying RO if nothing else works.


Do a major WC before the lighting experiment. Keep in mind that even with limited light, you'll get BA if you go too long between WC's. If the water builds up too much nitrate, silcates, etc., BA will grow.

Will do it.

DiscusBR
01-06-2012, 12:54 PM
Im just thing if you do more water changes more frequently it might help......


if he wants to

As I said, daily WCs certainly will "solve" the problem, but I was not willing to work on the maintanence of a display tank on a daily basis. I hope that you will not take that as a refusal to take advice.

Skip
01-06-2012, 12:59 PM
As I said, daily WCs certainly will "solve" the problem, but I was not willing to work on the maintanence of a display on a daily basis. I hope that you will not take that as a refusal to take advice.

not at all kind sir :)

Chicago Discus
01-06-2012, 01:04 PM
Do you age your water or straight from the tap? If your water from the tap is ok just use that instead of aging for a few weeks if you can................

DiscusBR
01-06-2012, 01:06 PM
not at all kind sir :)

:confused:

DiscusBR
01-06-2012, 01:07 PM
Do you age your water or straight from the tap? If your water from the tap is ok just use that instead of aging for a few weeks if you can................

I airate and heat the water for 24 hours. I then add Safe just before adding the water to the tank.

ExReefer
01-06-2012, 01:08 PM
Two 60% WC's per week on a tank with ADULT discus and few feedings is no problem.

Chicago Discus
01-06-2012, 01:10 PM
Try just adding right from the tap with a little safe.....it should work.....

DiscusBR
01-06-2012, 01:10 PM
Two 60% WC's per week on a tank with ADULT discus and few feedings is no problem.

Thank you. That is what I thought. I am therefore searching for a solution that does not involve doing WC more frequently than that.

DiscusBR
01-06-2012, 01:12 PM
Try just adding right from the tap with a little safe.....it should work.....

Thanks. But what would be the relationship between letting the water age for 24 hrs and brown algae?

DiscusBR
01-06-2012, 01:21 PM
One of my original questions remains:

- Is 0.5 mg/l a normal phosphate level or can it be the source of my algae problems?

Chicago Discus
01-06-2012, 01:22 PM
Aging with safe and aeration releases all the chlorine gas so I'd don't age and just add safe then tap it gives the chlorine gas a chance to work on bacteria and algae.....

Chicago Discus
01-06-2012, 01:24 PM
Aging with safe and aeration releases all the chlorine gas so I'd don't age and just add safe then tap it gives the chlorine gas a chance to work on bacteria and algae.....

Phosphate does stimulate algae but not at that level.......

DiscusBR
01-06-2012, 01:26 PM
Aging with safe and aeration releases all the chlorine gas so I'd don't age and just add safe then tap it gives the chlorine gas a chance to work on bacteria and algae.....

Got it. However, I am always terribly afraid of poisoning my discus with chlorine or causing ph swings by not aging the water (learned that here in the forum).

Chicago Discus
01-06-2012, 01:28 PM
Honey mine would have been dead years ago......LOL......Josie

jaykne
01-06-2012, 02:32 PM
Honey mine would have been dead years ago......LOL......Josie

Josie, he has a valid point your water may be in a safe stable range to do so, however we are all not so lucky. I live in a small town and the amount of chorine gas they put in my water can change from one day to another, if I did water changes straight out of my tap some days would be fine but others will kill, or stress my fish out to much. On top of that the ph comes out of my tap at 7.3 and after aging will settle at 8.5, the ph swing is not to bad but don't like to put the stress on them always leads to problems IMO.

warblad79
01-06-2012, 04:17 PM
UV sterilizer will get rid some of the algae bloom if you don't want frequent water change

Chicago Discus
01-06-2012, 04:33 PM
Josie, he has a valid point your water may be in a safe stable range to do so, however we are all not so lucky. I live in a small town and the amount of chorine gas they put in my water can change from one day to another, if I did water changes straight out of my tap some days would be fine but others will kill, or stress my fish out to much. On top of that the ph comes out of my tap at 7.3 and after aging will settle at 8.5, the ph swing is not to bad but don't like to put the stress on them always leads to problems IMO.

Thats good point, discus br does your PH swing after you age your water and if so how much.......

DiscusBR
01-06-2012, 09:32 PM
Thats good point, discus br does your PH swing after you age your water and if so how much.......

I have never compared the before and after. But jaykne's point is important. I don't trust the consistency of tap water here in Rio de Janeiro.

DerekFF
01-06-2012, 09:54 PM
Aging with safe and aeration releases all the chlorine gas so I'd don't age and just add safe then tap it gives the chlorine gas a chance to work on bacteria and algae.....

No...otherwise people wouldn't use safe/prime

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk

TNT77
01-06-2012, 10:03 PM
No...otherwise people wouldn't use safe/prime

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk
Actually aeration and even light will remove chlorine..it's the chloramines that safe/prime is needed for in aged water.

judy
01-06-2012, 10:48 PM
Try a phosphate reducer combined with overdosing Excel.

jaykne
01-07-2012, 01:14 AM
Actually aeration and even light will remove chlorine..it's the chloramines that safe/prime is needed for in aged water.

I age and use aeration before I use my water but also use prime to be safe, if the water department overdoses with the chlorine gas does not all come out before water changes. The fun of living in a small town LOL.

TNT77
01-07-2012, 01:16 AM
I age and use aeration before I use my water but also use prime to be safe, if the water department overdoses with the chlorine gas does not all come out before water changes. The fun of living in a small town LOL.
If it doesn't burn your nosehairs out its not enough chlorine. :D

Orange Crush
01-07-2012, 02:55 AM
Amazon swords are great plants for discus tanks and they suck up the nitrates and produce a lot of oxygen....

DiscusBR
01-07-2012, 10:31 AM
Great discussion here about aging water, chlorine, chloramines and the use of Safe/Prime.


Try a phosphate reducer combined with overdosing Excel.

Thanks, Judy. Can you please explain what is a phosphate reducer?


Amazon swords are great plants for discus tanks and they suck up the nitrates and produce a lot of oxygen....

That is an idea. In the new setup of my tank I am planning to add some anubias and one big Amazon sword.

Any other ideas on how I can reduce the brown algae issue?

jimg
01-07-2012, 10:43 AM
I didn't read through all the posts but what lights and how long also what foods and how much play a big role. brown diatoms will occur almost regardless of phosphates,silicates etc. especially on newer tanks and bright lights

DiscusLoverJeff
01-07-2012, 01:14 PM
After reading this great thread I can say this about BA, it usually starts with overfeeding and poor filtration as well. What are you running in you filter? Also, poor water movement can also come into play.

I had the same issue a few months back and I got rid of my BA in 2 weeks. I added a second filter, increased water movement, and continued my 50% water changes 3 times a week. I also introduced pressurized CO2 into the tank as I have plants. My lights from my T5 are on 10 hours daily but I only run 2 of the 4 bulbs. My tank cleared up nicely.

As far as phosphates go, .5 is not bad but too much phos can be a good cause of this problem as well. I was dosing KH2PO4 which contains phos and I cut it out all togther. Now, I dose in smaller abouts and use Excel to help control algae.

Good Luck!

Jeff

judy
01-07-2012, 02:06 PM
Great discussion here about aging water, chlorine, chloramines and the use of Safe/Prime.
Thanks, Judy. Can you please explain what is a phosphate reducer?

I don't know what they have available where you are, but there are two types. One is a liquid you add that precipitates the phosphate out of solution in the water, and you use that after checking to make sure your carbonate hardness is high enough to handle it-- use of this liquid will lower the Kh quite quickly. The advantage is it works instantly. You can see the white cloud of phosphate develop and settle to the bottom of the tank (it stays bound up and so never returns to the water).
The other is a green sheet you buy and cut to fit your filter. It acts as a mechanical filter while absorbing phosphate,. Because my tap phosphate is never lower than 1,0, I use the sheets always, and occasionally bump it down further with the liquid. One on the market is call Foz-down, I think,

DiscusBR
01-07-2012, 11:28 PM
I didn't read through all the posts but what lights and how long also what foods and how much play a big role. brown diatoms will occur almost regardless of phosphates,silicates etc. especially on newer tanks and bright lights

I am starting a test with the lights today. I wiped down the whole tank and I will leave the lights off for few days. I will report if it made any difference in terms of algae growth. As I explained, I don't consider overfeeding to be a possible cause to this particular problem. It is also not a new tank, has been established for 8 months.


After reading this great thread I can say this about BA, it usually starts with overfeeding and poor filtration as well. What are you running in you filter?

The tank has a Eheim 2217 canister filter with all the traditional media (no carbon) and two sponge filters. I assume that is more than enough for a 80g.


Also, poor water movement can also come into play.

I can see this as a possible cause of problems. I don't think the canister spray bar and the two sponge filters provide enought water movement. I know discus don't like too much water movement, but after I end the test about the possible effect of lights I will add a small powerhead in the back of the tank.


I had the same issue a few months back and I got rid of my BA in 2 weeks. I added a second filter, increased water movement, and continued my 50% water changes 3 times a week. I also introduced pressurized CO2 into the tank as I have plants. My lights from my T5 are on 10 hours daily but I only run 2 of the 4 bulbs. My tank cleared up nicely.

Nice to know about your good results. I have no plans of adding another filter or CO2, though.


As far as phosphates go, .5 is not bad but too much phos can be a good cause of this problem as well. I was dosing KH2PO4 which contains phos and I cut it out all togther. Now, I dose in smaller abouts and use Excel to help control algae.

I will try to get Excel, which was also soggested by others.


Good Luck!

Jeff

Thanks. I will need it.


I don't know what they have available where you are, but there are two types. One is a liquid you add that precipitates the phosphate out of solution in the water, and you use that after checking to make sure your carbonate hardness is high enough to handle it-- use of this liquid will lower the Kh quite quickly. The advantage is it works instantly. You can see the white cloud of phosphate develop and settle to the bottom of the tank (it stays bound up and so never returns to the water).
The other is a green sheet you buy and cut to fit your filter. It acts as a mechanical filter while absorbing phosphate,. Because my tap phosphate is never lower than 1,0, I use the sheets always, and occasionally bump it down further with the liquid. One on the market is call Foz-down, I think,

Thank you, Judy. That is very interesting and useful info. I can't use the first option because my water is extremelly soft. I will look for the green sheet type, though.

DerekFF
01-09-2012, 01:43 PM
Actually aeration and even light will remove chlorine..it's the chloramines that safe/prime is needed for in aged water.

Im saying no to the idea that the chlorine/amines will have any effect on algae or bacteria in the tank.

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk

jimg
01-11-2012, 07:14 PM
I am starting a test with the lights today. I wiped down the whole tank and I will leave the lights off for few days. I will report if it made any difference in terms of algae growth. As I explained, I don't consider overfeeding to be a possible cause to this particular problem. It is also not a new tank, has been established for 8 months.
Keep us updated... I am not just meaning over feeding, some foods are high in phosphates too.

4discus
01-13-2012, 01:15 AM
I heard Brown algae is from not enough light??? I changed my single florescent to a single T5 - 5000K and although the problem is not completely gone it is much more manageable. I run the lights about 10 hours a day on a timer.

DiscusBR
01-13-2012, 07:18 AM
Sorry for the absence. Enjoying a small vacation here :)


Im saying no to the idea that the chlorine/amines will have any effect on algae or bacteria in the tank.

I would tend to agree with that, although I am no expert on the topic.


Keep us updated... I am not just meaning over feeding, some foods are high in phosphates too.

I am running the lighting test and I will post some results here in few days. Thanks for the clarification. One of the flakes I use states it is low phosphorous. The other does not contain information about phosphate levels. But I see your point.


I heard Brown algae is from not enough light??? I changed my single florescent to a single T5 - 5000K and although the problem is not completely gone it is much more manageable. I run the lights about 10 hours a day on a timer.

I hear a lot of contradictory information about the relationship between brown algae and lighting. Nice to know that your problem improved, but my test is showing a different result. Will report on it later.

h2osanity
01-13-2012, 02:42 PM
Otocinclus will clean that up.

judy
01-13-2012, 03:51 PM
re: "I heard Brown algae is from not enough light??? I changed my single florescent to a single T5 - 5000K and although the problem is not completely gone it is much more manageable. I run the lights about 10 hours a day on a timer. "

I think you heard wrong, or incompletely. Algae blooms of any sort are a result of something out of balance in the water-- not enough light or too much light COMBINED with something else-- like high phosphates or nitrates or poor circulation or insufficient C)2 or too much CO2 or too much or too little fertilizer...
What will cause many types of algae to recede is a break in the lighting cycle-- four hours on, two off, two on. as algae requires a longer photo-responsive period to thrive than plants do. I found when I set my lights to go off for two hours in the afternoon that even the tiny amounts of most types of algae I could see evaporated withing days.
Black brush algae, now-- another story.
Otos will suck up the brown stuff, but won't correct the base problem. And then you are stuck with otos that will quite possibly begin attacking the slime coat on the discus and hurting them quite badly.

TNT77
01-13-2012, 03:52 PM
Otocinclus will clean that up.
Also the discus slime coats.

pH7
01-13-2012, 06:06 PM
Also the discus slime coats.

I've heard siamese algae eaters (real ones, not flying foxes--their impersonators) are better suited to algae removal, and I'm inclined to believe it. I've had some, and they were very good at keeping my tank clean. The big advantage is supposed to be that they leave discus slime coats alone. I've heard similar things about bushy nose plecs (ancistrus).

~pH7, Aquarium Ninja

Orange Crush
01-13-2012, 08:15 PM
SAE get really agressive when they are adults. Otos however eat algae well and are very good in community tanks that do NOT have discus....

4discus
01-13-2012, 08:55 PM
re: "I heard Brown algae is from not enough light??? I changed my single florescent to a single T5 - 5000K and although the problem is not completely gone it is much more manageable. I run the lights about 10 hours a day on a timer. "

I think you heard wrong, or incompletely. Algae blooms of any sort are a result of something out of balance in the water-- not enough light or too much light COMBINED with something else-- like high phosphates or nitrates or poor circulation or insufficient C)2 or too much CO2 or too much or too little fertilizer...
What will cause many types of algae to recede is a break in the lighting cycle-- four hours on, two off, two on. as algae requires a longer photo-responsive period to thrive than plants do. I found when I set my lights to go off for two hours in the afternoon that even the tiny amounts of most types of algae I could see evaporated withing days.
Black brush algae, now-- another story.
Otos will suck up the brown stuff, but won't correct the base problem. And then you are stuck with otos that will quite possibly begin attacking the slime coat on the discus and hurting them quite badly.


I think your right Judy because it didn't completely go away....I was going to try Two Little Fishies Phosban next.

judy
01-14-2012, 12:54 AM
My SAE got six inches big, but never did get aggressive. I sold him, which was a mistake. Now I have some Black Brush algae on my driftwood again, and every place in town that says it has Siamese algae eaters actually has flying foxes--which I have now had to point out to four totally different store clerks, explain to them how to tell the difference, and explain to them that flying foxes don't eat BBA -- and definitely get VERY aggressive when they grow up!

DiscusBR
01-15-2012, 09:48 PM
So, I finished my week-long experiment and I can now report the results: the cause of my problem was lighting.

So last Sunday (Jan 8) I did a 60% water change and cleaned all the brown algae in the tank (including the 3D backgrond and the bottom's glass). I then left the lights off and did another 60% WC on Wednesday (did not clean the tank). Today, after 7 days, I can report that I can see brown algae in some spots, but nothing, NOTHING compared to what I had before. When I was leaving lights on for 7 hours/day for a week, ALL my background and ALL the surface of the bottom's glass would be covered by brown algae.

The tank has an AquaticLife lighting fixture with one 54W T5HO lamp. It is impressive that one 54W lamp that was on for 7 hours/day would cause the algae boom. The fixture comes with two 54W lamps and I was using only one! So ExReefer was right:


T5HO bulbs are just too intense and not needed on discus tanks (unless growing plants)

I have therefore finally eliminated other possible culprits: silica in my pool filter sand; the stainless nails and the wood used to fix my Manzanita branches; the phosphate level in my tap water. The main problem was my lighting. I am sure other factors contributed to the problem (I plan, for example, the increase the water circulation in the tank with a small powerhead), but I need new lighting and I need recommendations.

What lighting would be ideal for a 80g tank with very few "hardy" plants (Anubias) that don't need a lot of lighing? LEDs? Regular bulbs? Any suggestions?

Thanks in advance.

peterrabit
01-16-2012, 12:13 AM
It doesn't sound like algae to me.
It sounds like ciano bacteria which can be blue green or brown.
Get erythromycin and treat as per the instructions.
If you have a large tank, over 50 gallons, you may want to buy it bulk, by the pound.
Some, but not most, online aquarium suppliers stock it.,
Good luck.

Orange Crush
01-16-2012, 12:28 AM
If it is cyano then get a lot of water movement and O2 going in the tank because cyano hates those conditions..... However, your 1st pic does not look like cyano to me. Cyano is very blue/green not brown and has bubbles in it.

DiscusBR
01-16-2012, 07:57 AM
It doesn't sound like algae to me.
It sounds like ciano bacteria which can be blue green or brown.
Get erythromycin and treat as per the instructions.
If you have a large tank, over 50 gallons, you may want to buy it bulk, by the pound.
Some, but not most, online aquarium suppliers stock it.,
Good luck.

Thanks, but I looked at some pics and mine does not look like cyano. Moreover, there were never bubbles in the tank and the algaeīs color clearly looks like diatoms.


If it is cyano then get a lot of water movement and O2 going in the tank because cyano hates those conditions..... However, your 1st pic does not look like cyano to me. Cyano is very blue/green not brown and has bubbles in it.

Thanks. In terms of O2, I have two sponge filters powered by an air pump. I will, though, increase water circulation as you recommend.

So, what about lighting configuration? What lighting would be ideal for a 80g wild discus tank with very few "hardy" plants (Anubias) that don't need a lot of lighing? LEDs? Regular fish tank bulbs? Please advice.

Bud
01-16-2012, 10:51 AM
Why buy another light when you could raise,diffuse,or change spectrum of the light?I have compacts on my 75,and it hangs from the ceiling,looks kind of cool and always have light to see in bedroom.They diminish quickly each couple inches of movement,mines 26" away from top!

judy
01-16-2012, 12:30 PM
Why buy another light? Just put a two-hour break in your light cycle.

DiscusBR
01-16-2012, 12:34 PM
Why buy another light when you could raise,diffuse,or change spectrum of the light?I have compacts on my 75,and it hangs from the ceiling,looks kind of cool and always have light to see in bedroom.They diminish quickly each couple inches of movement,mines 26" away from top!

Thanks, that makes sense and was already suggested by someone else. Since the tank is in my living room where the TV is, my tendency has been to think that a higher lighting fixture would not be the best alternative. But I now think I will give it a try.

One question: If I want to have a few low-light plants in my tank (Anubias), how high can I go with my single 54W T5HO lamp fixture?

DiscusBR
01-16-2012, 12:35 PM
Why buy another light? Just put a two-hour break in your light cycle.

Another good suggestion. The only problem is that the timer I have does not give me that option. Maybe I will get another one.

4discus
01-16-2012, 01:36 PM
Thanks, that makes sense and was already suggested by someone else. Since the tank is in my living room where the TV is, my tendency has been to think that a higher lighting fixture would not be the best alternative. But I now think I will give it a try.

One question: If I want to have a few low-light plants in my tank (Anubias), how high can I go with my single 54W T5HO lamp fixture?

From what I have read anubias are low light plants. A guide line is about 1-2W per gal with low light plants. I also read to keep in mind T5HO lights are doubled in your watt calculations.

judy
01-16-2012, 01:38 PM
Anubias can handle high light just fine. They're called low-light plants because they also do well in low light. They just grow faster in high light.

4discus
01-16-2012, 02:05 PM
I agree but just a thought....when your plant grows faster remember you will need to recalculate your CO2 and nutrient levels to balance not to mention make sure the rest of your plants are high light to match...

judy
01-16-2012, 02:14 PM
I reviewed the thread and it looks like there is no mention of whether or not you currently have any plants. What's your set-up right now? BB and no plants? You mentioned using Two Little Fishies Phosban and that will work to keep your phosphates down nicely, if you keep on top of it. Fast-growing plants nicely uptake other excess nutrients that can fuel brown algae (some even use up a little nitrate-- but not much, really). Slow growers like anubias are pretty much useless for that, though. If your brown algae is a result of excess nutrients combined with the light it needs to take advantage of those nutrients, you would not have to concern yourself with fertilizing any fast-growing plants you might add.
Just remember if you do add plants: four hours lights on, two hours off, four hours on. Plants need the four hour photsynthesis period.

DiscusBR
01-16-2012, 02:42 PM
From what I have read anubias are low light plants. A guide line is about 1-2W per gal with low light plants. I also read to keep in mind T5HO lights are doubled in your watt calculations.

(...) when your plant grows faster remember you will need to recalculate your CO2 and nutrient levels to balance not to mention make sure the rest of your plants are high light to match

Thanks. I did not know that you needed to double the calculations when using T5HO lamps. I am not going to use CO2. I am planning a low-tech tank with few "hardy" and low-light plants.


Anubias can handle high light just fine. They're called low-light plants because they also do well in low light. They just grow faster in high light.

Thanks.


I reviewed the thread and it looks like there is no mention of whether or not you currently have any plants. What's your set-up right now? BB and no plants?

In post # 7, I mentioned that the one-week experiment with no lights was possible because I had removed the plants (they were all covered by brown algae). The tank is currently BB with no plants, but I will change that after the algae issue is under control.


You mentioned using Two Little Fishies Phosban and that will work to keep your phosphates down nicely, if you keep on top of it. Fast-growing plants nicely uptake other excess nutrients that can fuel brown algae (some even use up a little nitrate-- but not much, really). Slow growers like anubias are pretty much useless for that, though. If your brown algae is a result of excess nutrients combined with the light it needs to take advantage of those nutrients, you would not have to concern yourself with fertilizing any fast-growing plants you might add.
Just remember if you do add plants: four hours lights on, two hours off, four hours on. Plants need the four hour photsynthesis period.

Thanks. A lot of important information here. In the short term, I will take a few measures: I will increase the water circulation with a small powerhead; I will lift the lighting fixture higher; I will follow your proposed lighiting schedule (4 hours on, 2 off, 4 on). Hopefully that will bring the algae under control. If problems continue I will try to get Two Little Fishies Phosban, which I am sure will be either impossible to find or too expensive here in Brazil. What about using Excel? Do you all recommend? Another question: would Amazon swords qualify as a "fast-growing" plant. I might add a big one to the tank. Would that help?

Thank you all!

4discus
01-16-2012, 03:34 PM
I reviewed the thread and it looks like there is no mention of whether or not you currently have any plants. What's your set-up right now? BB and no plants? You mentioned using Two Little Fishies Phosban and that will work to keep your phosphates down nicely, if you keep on top of it. Fast-growing plants nicely uptake other excess nutrients that can fuel brown algae (some even use up a little nitrate-- but not much, really). Slow growers like anubias are pretty much useless for that, though. If your brown algae is a result of excess nutrients combined with the light it needs to take advantage of those nutrients, you would not have to concern yourself with fertilizing any fast-growing plants you might add.
Just remember if you do add plants: four hours lights on, two hours off, four hours on. Plants need the four hour photsynthesis period.

Glad you asked...I need some help with my tank but I'm not forum literate so I dont know If I post a new thread or jump in someone else's question.
I did have brown algae but I changed my lighting and the new lighting appears to have fixed the brown algea but now I see a ?blue green or green algae starting up. I believe its blue green algae Crayno bact) caused by low CO2 or unbalance between light and CO2. Its bright green and slimy. I assume when I changed the lights the tank became unbalanced between the co2 and light???? In your experience does this sound correct? Do I need to medicate the algae first then find balance? Or will it disappear by itself as I find bal. I read this stuff creates its own food because its a bacteria.?.?. Before I buy the phosban I would like to see if I can fix the root of the problem if possible.

Heres what I got going on:

46 Gal tank
T5HO 5000k 1-light at 39w
HOB 400 gal per hour and no charcoal--(wanted good flow:)
4 discus Cobalt-red turquoise-white butterfly and PB snakskin
83 degrees
1" Gravel sub (but will be switching to pool sand)
Med Planted tank anubias and java fern
Driftwood
Low tech tank-no CO2

Did I forget something?

I have used since day 1 the timer to run the lights about 3 hours in the AM (so I will change that to 4), off in the afternoon and back on Late afternoon. They run about 10 hours.

Thanks in advance

Orange Crush
01-16-2012, 03:57 PM
I reviewed the thread and it looks like there is no mention of whether or not you currently have any plants. What's your set-up right now? BB and no plants? You mentioned using Two Little Fishies Phosban and that will work to keep your phosphates down nicely, if you keep on top of it. Fast-growing plants nicely uptake other excess nutrients that can fuel brown algae (some even use up a little nitrate-- but not much, really). Slow growers like anubias are pretty much useless for that, though. If your brown algae is a result of excess nutrients combined with the light it needs to take advantage of those nutrients, you would not have to concern yourself with fertilizing any fast-growing plants you might add.
Just remember if you do add plants: four hours lights on, two hours off, four hours on. Plants need the four hour photsynthesis period.

Plants use up a lot of nitrates. I have one tank in which I never have to change the water because it is heavily planted and the nitrates stay at <5
You do have to fertalize fast growing plants. Anubas (slow growing) however do not like fertalizers all that much and do better with low light and no ferts or CO2.

If you want to use plants that compete for the nitrates that algae utilizes then you will want fast growers like Amazon Swords.

judy
01-16-2012, 04:27 PM
Swords are medium for growth-- floating plants like the ones I've listed grow the fastest.

judy
01-16-2012, 04:29 PM
Glad you asked...I need some help with my tank but I'm not forum literate so I dont know If I post a new thread or jump in someone else's question.
I did have brown algae but I changed my lighting and the new lighting appears to have fixed the brown algea but now I see a ?blue green or green algae starting up. I believe its blue green algae Crayno bact) caused by low CO2 or unbalance between light and CO2. Its bright green and slimy. I assume when I changed the lights the tank became unbalanced between the co2 and light???? In your experience does this sound correct? Do I need to medicate the algae first then find balance? Or will it disappear by itself as I find bal. I read this stuff creates its own food because its a bacteria.?.?. Before I buy the phosban I would like to see if I can fix the root of the problem if possible.

Heres what I got going on:

46 Gal tank
T5HO 5000k 1-light at 39w
HOB 400 gal per hour and no charcoal--(wanted good flow:)
4 discus Cobalt-red turquoise-white butterfly and PB snakskin
93 degrees
1" Gravel sub (but will be switching to pool sand)
Med Planted tank anubias and java fern
Driftwood
Low tech tank-no CO2

Did I forget something?

I have used since day 1 the timer to run the lights about 3 hours in the AM (so I will change that to 4), off in the afternoon and back on Late afternoon. They run about 10 hours.

Thanks in advance

If the algae slides off in sheets when you pull it, you have cyano fur sure. That is an excess nutrient issue for sure: you need more frequent and larger water changes. If 93 degrees is right, that is far too high. 82 to 82 is optimum. You can use a med to kill the cyano; make sure you do a very large WC afterward. I always have a sheet of cyano growing on the outflow of my Aquaclear filters, but nowhere else. I just wipe it off with a paper towel when I do a WC.

Orange Crush
01-16-2012, 04:50 PM
Swords are medium for growth-- floating plants like the ones I've listed grow the fastest.

If by "medium" you mean 1 foot in a month :)

4discus
01-16-2012, 05:29 PM
If the algae slides off in sheets when you pull it, you have cyano fur sure. That is an excess nutrient issue for sure: you need more frequent and larger water changes. If 93 degrees is right, that is far too high. 82 to 82 is optimum. You can use a med to kill the cyano; make sure you do a very large WC afterward. I always have a sheet of cyano growing on the outflow of my Aquaclear filters, but nowhere else. I just wipe it off with a paper towel when I do a WC.

Thanks. Oh, that 93 is a typo--its 83 degrees.

Orange Crush
01-16-2012, 06:22 PM
If the algae slides off in sheets when you pull it, you have cyano fur sure. That is an excess nutrient issue for sure: you need more frequent and larger water changes. If 93 degrees is right, that is far too high. 82 to 82 is optimum. You can use a med to kill the cyano; make sure you do a very large WC afterward. I always have a sheet of cyano growing on the outflow of my Aquaclear filters, but nowhere else. I just wipe it off with a paper towel when I do a WC.

That is scary that you continue to have cyano, it can kill your fish. It is caused by an excess of ferts, food and light. Also, old bulbs and lamps will produce the lower wavelengths that will foster Cyanobacteria blooms.
Antibotics are the best way to completely cure an aquarium of cyanobactera. A week treatment of products such as Maracyn or erythromycin will cure the aquarium completely of this bacteria. Also keep your lights off during this week or as much as posible and remove any that you can before you start medicating.

judy
01-16-2012, 06:50 PM
To clarify: it is not in the tank. It is on the plastic lip that returns water from the AC filter. And I occasionally suspect it is not cyano, but an interesting type of sheet algae. it also grows on the inside on the glass lids in spots... and Cyano seems more "dissolvy." I don't have an excess of anything, or old bulbs.

Orange Crush
01-16-2012, 07:13 PM
If you have algae then you have an excess of something or it would not be capable of growing. I would take a sample and a pic to your LFS to see what type of algae it is and if it cyano I would medicate your tank....

judy
01-16-2012, 08:37 PM
Reply to Orange Crush PM'ed. Now, back to the original poster-- I would not raise your lights higher. I would just make sure you do a lot of water changes and keep your water in top condition, once you have killed off the cyano. Splitting up your photosynthetic period is the easiest route to follow and will probably be more effective than raising your lights, especially if you are planning on putting plants back in the tank.They won't be happy with lights that are too high. remember algae of any sort is a result of nutrient/light imbalance. Correct each issue (remove nutrients with large, more frequent WCs and break up the photosynthetic period so algae cannot use the light) and you solve the problem. I prefer not to medicate unless it is absolutely necessary and there is no other less invasive solution.

DiscusBR
01-17-2012, 07:41 AM
I would not raise your lights higher. I would just make sure you do a lot of water changes and keep your water in top condition, once you have killed off the cyano.

Just to clarify: I am fighting brown algae, not cyano. As explained, my schedule is two 60% WCs per week. This should be sufficient to any display tank with adult discus. I have no plans to increase the frequency of the WCs. I should be able to control the algae problem with that schedule.


Splitting up your photosynthetic period is the easiest route to follow and will probably be more effective than raising your lights, especially if you are planning on putting plants back in the tank.They won't be happy with lights that are too high. remember algae of any sort is a result of nutrient/light imbalance. Correct each issue (remove nutrients with large, more frequent WCs and break up the photosynthetic period so algae cannot use the light) and you solve the problem. I prefer not to medicate unless it is absolutely necessary and there is no other less invasive solution.

Thanks. I will split the lighting period (4 hours on, 2 off, 4 on). I am nevertheless getting contradictory advice as far as raising the lighting fixture is concerned. I have three pending questions and I appreciate any input people might have:

1. Would raising the lighing fixture a few inches help with algae booms or not? EDIT: Instead of raising the fixture, I am now considering blocking part of the light with regular kitchen aluminium foil (fixture has one 54W T5HO lamp). Any takes?

2. Has anyone had good experience with using Two Little Fishiesī Phosban reactor when fighting algae problems?

3. Would people recomend the use of Seachemīs Excel to control brown algae?

Thanks in advance

judy
01-17-2012, 12:42 PM
1. No. Raising the lights is pointless, IMO.
2. Yes, though in a saltwater tank in my case. You must keep the media current, though; you can't put it in and forget about it for three months.
3. Yes. Excel contains a mild algaecide, and is frequently used by frustrated planted tank owners in overdose (double the recommended dose) to clear bothersome algae that hasn't responsed to any other methhod of removal. The bonus is that its form of carbon benefits the plants you do want to keep. However, a fairly large number of people report that use of Excel causes their vallisneria plants to melt... it never has done that to mine, though.

4discus
01-17-2012, 06:00 PM
Wrong thread.

judy
01-17-2012, 06:47 PM
Sorry, am replying to the OP's thread, not your sub-thread. To start a new thread, go to the discussion board you want to post in and click on (eg. planted/show tanks and Biotpes) and click on Post New Thread at the top.

4discus
01-17-2012, 06:56 PM
Sorry, am replying to the OP's thread, not your sub-thread. To start a new thread, go to the discussion board you want to post in and click on (eg. planted/show tanks and Biotpes) and click on Post New Thread at the top.

My bad -- Im posting on the wrong thread...but thanks for the info.

DiscusBR
01-18-2012, 07:44 AM
Going back to the original topic about the brown algae problem:


1. No. Raising the lights is pointless, IMO..

I have put regular kitchen aluminium foil inside the fixture to block part of the 54W T5HO lampīs light. I assume it will help with the algae issue and my wilds will enjoy the less intensive light. There is no danger in using foil inside a lighting fixture, right?


2. Yes, though in a saltwater tank in my case. You must keep the media current, though; you can't put it in and forget about it for three months.

I am running an expeirment in the next few weeks: I am reducing light with aluminium foil as described; I will change the lighting schedule (four hours on, two hours off, four hours on); I will increase water movement with a powerhead; I will start using Flourish Excel (thanks about the hints about its use). If problems persist, I will get a Phosban reactor, replacing the media periodically as suggested.

Does that sound like a good plan?

judy
01-18-2012, 02:11 PM
Be very careful with the foil around the fixture-- aluminum conducts electricity and all you need is for it to touch a live wire to blow out your lights permanently. If you must block light, why not use something that is inert that you can just put on the canopy--a piece of dark plastic or the like...

DiscusBR
01-18-2012, 02:34 PM
Be very careful with the foil around the fixture-- aluminum conducts electricity and all you need is for it to touch a live wire to blow out your lights permanently. If you must block light, why not use something that is inert that you can just put on the canopy--a piece of dark plastic or the like...

Thanks. So far so good. The few foil pieces are touching only the lamp, no wires around. The problem with other materials like plastic is that they might melt with the lampīs heat.

Do other aspects of the plan look ok?

judy
01-18-2012, 04:18 PM
yeah-- but with foil wrapped around the light itself, you're keeping the heat in and I wonder what would happen to the glass tubing, which is pretty darn thin. I can't remember if you have one fluorescent tube or two. If two, why not just remove one and cap the sockets off? (Not with foil, though!)

DiscusBR
01-18-2012, 07:02 PM
yeah-- but with foil wrapped around the light itself, you're keeping the heat in and I wonder what would happen to the glass tubing, which is pretty darn thin. I can't remember if you have one fluorescent tube or two. If two, why not just remove one and cap the sockets off? (Not with foil, though!)

Some info: the AquaticLife fixture came with two 54W T5HO tubes, but long ago I took one of them out. I have therefore one fluorescent tube. I have not wrapped the bulb with foil. I have put some small foil sheets between the lamp and the transparent plastic cover of the lighting fixture. The foil is barely touching the tube.

judy
01-18-2012, 07:22 PM
okay, this is very helpful-- one fluorescent tube over an eighty gallon is definitely not an excess of light by any means, even if it's a 10,000K light and not a 6,500K. If anything, in a planted tank it would be insufficient for anything but very low light plants. You absolutely do not need to reduce the amount of light.

DiscusBR
01-18-2012, 08:06 PM
okay, this is very helpful-- one fluorescent tube over an eighty gallon is definitely not an excess of light by any means, even if it's a 10,000K light and not a 6,500K. If anything, in a planted tank it would be insufficient for anything but very low light plants. You absolutely do not need to reduce the amount of light.

But here are the facts: When I was leaving the single 54W T5HO lamp on for 7 hours per day, in a week brown algae would take over my 3D background, the heaters, the Manzanita branches and the pool filter sand. When I left lights off for a week during my experiment, very little algae developed. There is clearly a relationship between lighting and my algae problem. Most likely it is not the only cause, but it is definetely an important factor.

judy
01-18-2012, 09:45 PM
The algae can feed off the limited light you have because another parameter is out of whack-- probably the water changes have not been large enough or frequent enough-- or the water you use has a high nutrient load already, coming out of the tap, which means the algae have whacks to feed on. Have you tested your water out of the tap (or whatever water you use-- I am guessing it is not RO or distilled) for nitrates and Total Dissolved Solids?
Whenever I have had an algae bloom of any sort, inevitably it disappeared with a few days of doing a massive water change using pure distilled water-- my nutrient levels were the problem, not the light level.

DiscusBR
01-18-2012, 10:34 PM
The algae can feed off the limited light you have because another parameter is out of whack-- probably the water changes have not been large enough or frequent enough--

The issue of WC regime was discussed extensively in this thread. I agree with ExReefer's position in post #21: "Two 60% WC's per week on a tank with ADULT discus and few feedings is no problem." I should be able to control the algae with that WC regime.


or the water you use has a high nutrient load already, coming out of the tap, which means the algae have whacks to feed on. Have you tested your water out of the tap (or whatever water you use-- I am guessing it is not RO or distilled) for nitrates and Total Dissolved Solids?

I age my tap water for 24hrs. It has 0 nitrates and is very soft: KH and GH close to 0 (never used a TDS meter).


Whenever I have had an algae bloom of any sort, inevitably it disappeared with a few days of doing a massive water change using pure distilled water-- my nutrient levels were the problem, not the light level.

I have done massive daily WCs. Brown algae would come back as soon as I stopped with them. Since my water is extremely soft, no plans for now of using distiled water.

Orange Crush
01-18-2012, 10:52 PM
The issue of WC regime was discussed extensively in this thread. I agree with ExReefer's position in post #21: "Two 60% WC's per week on a tank with ADULT discus and few feedings is no problem." I should be able to control the algae with that WC regime.

I have done massive daily WCs. Brown algae would come back as soon as I stopped with them. Since my water is extremely soft, no plans for now of using distiled water.

Perhaps 60% 2x's a week could be enough but if you algae problems then you need to think about doing it more often.
You mentioned that you did daily WCs but it came back when you stopped doing it that often. Sounds like WCs 2x's a week is not helping with the algae problem but daily WCs does. :)

DiscusBR
01-18-2012, 11:04 PM
Oh well, here we go again... (sorry if I sound impatient). If any tank in this planet has an algae problem, daily 60% WCs will "solve" the problem. It is obviously a false solution, since it does not address the imbalance that is causing the problem (too much silicates, phosphates, nitrates, lighting, or whatever).

judy
01-18-2012, 11:56 PM
Yeah, exactly -- but I think most folks would agree a single T5HO over an eighty gallon tank cannot possibly be too much light...
And if daily large WCs was clearing it up, then that has to indicate it is water quality in some way, yes? The most immediate thought might be overfeeding. If it was a planted tank, too much fert or too much CO2, or inconsistently dosed CO2 could be the deciding factors. But if you rule that out, then it has to be overfeeding or some other source of pollution... you removed your sand substrate, so it's not that. The only other factor would be your filter-- is it regularly cleaned? Re-reading the thread, I see mention of the Eheim canister filter-- these can be invisible fiith factories: when was the last time you cleaned it out? We haven't asked you that yet.
I know this is maddening, but I really think it's not your light, it's the water quality that is the problem.

Orange Crush
01-19-2012, 12:29 AM
Yeah, exactly -- but I think most folks would agree a single T5HO over an eighty gallon tank cannot possibly be too much light...
And if daily large WCs was clearing it up, then that has to indicate it is water quality in some way, yes? The most immediate thought might be overfeeding. If it was a planted tank, too much fert or too much CO2, or inconsistently dosed CO2 could be the deciding factors. But if you rule that out, then it has to be overfeeding or some other source of pollution... you removed your sand substrate, so it's not that. The only other factor would be your filter-- is it regularly cleaned? Re-reading the thread, I see mention of the Eheim canister filter-- these can be invisible fiith factories: when was the last time you cleaned it out? We haven't asked you that yet.
I know this is maddening, but I really think it's not your light, it's the water quality that is the problem.

+1

4discus
01-19-2012, 01:51 AM
Oh well, here we go again... (sorry if I sound impatient). If any tank in this planet has an algae problem, daily 60% WCs will "solve" the problem. It is obviously a false solution, since it does not address the imbalance that is causing the problem (too much silicates, phosphates, nitrates, lighting, or whatever).

Have you read these articles?

Here's a link to a couple of Links to algae articles that may help?

http://www.guitarfish.org/algae#diatoms
and
http://www.aquariumslife.com/headline/brown-diatom-algae-control/

They also make a Diatom Filters but I have not used one so I dont know if they work or not.
It sound like your on track but your probably right in the fact we are missing a root cause somewhere here. How old are your T5 bulbs? At first glance your lights sound correct. What is the spectrum on the bulb?

2drtahoe4x4
01-19-2012, 05:25 AM
How tall is your tank? If its 30" and your only running 1 T5HO bulb this is probably putting you at the low end of low light. On top of this if the bulb is old that would lower things even more. Speaking of which what is the K rating of your bulb? You may find that increasing your photoperiod will actually help your algae problem. Or using both bulbs for a shorter photoperiod may work. Using both probably puts you at the low end of medium light or right at medium.

DiscusBR
01-19-2012, 08:00 AM
Thank you all for your input.


Yeah, exactly -- but I think most folks would agree a single T5HO over an eighty gallon tank cannot possibly be too much light...

Well, it appears that there is no consensus about that. Here is what ExReefer said in post # 5: “I used to run one T5HO bulb on my 75G BB discus tank. I always fought brown algae on the bottom of the tank even though my photo period was only 6 hours. T5HO bulbs are just too intense and not needed on discus tanks (unless growing plants). I sold the 75G and picked up a used 125G with two plain old 30W flouescent bulbs and I no longer have alage issues with a photo period of 7 hrs. a day. As a solution, you can raise your light above the tank or block the intensity with some window screening.”

I followed his advice and I am blocking the intensity of the T5HO lamp with foil.


And if daily large WCs was clearing it up, then that has to indicate it is water quality in some way, yes? The most immediate thought might be overfeeding. If it was a planted tank, too much fert or too much CO2, or inconsistently dosed CO2 could be the deciding factors. But if you rule that out, then it has to be overfeeding or some other source of pollution... you removed your sand substrate, so it's not that.

It is not a planted tank and I have never used CO2. I think now that feeding might be the problem. I did not consider the possiblity of "overfeeding" because the fish were consuming the food quickly with few leftovers. But I might need to reduce the frequency of the feedings. I give them Tetra bits in the morning, then two feedings with flakes (automatic feeder) during the day, and then I give them frozen dried bloodworms at night. Does that sound like overfeeding? Should I change from two to one feeding during the day? Suggestions?


The only other factor would be your filter-- is it regularly cleaned? Re-reading the thread, I see mention of the Eheim canister filter-- these can be invisible fiith factories: when was the last time you cleaned it out? We haven't asked you that yet.
I know this is maddening, but I really think it's not your light, it's the water quality that is the problem.

I have one 2217 Eheim canister filter. It is less than one year old and I clean it every two or three months. The last time I cleaned it was five weeks ago. So I donīt see a possibility of problems here.


Have you read these articles?
Here's a link to a couple of Links to algae articles that may help?
http://www.guitarfish.org/algae#diatoms
and
http://www.aquariumslife.com/headline/brown-diatom-algae-control/
They also make a Diatom Filters but I have not used one so I dont know if they work or not.
It sound like your on track but your probably right in the fact we are missing a root cause somewhere here. How old are your T5 bulbs? At first glance your lights sound correct. What is the spectrum on the bulb?

Thanks for sharing the articles. I will check them. My T5HO lamp is new (one year old). The spectrum is 6,000K. As I said before, if nothing helps I will purchase a PhosBan reactor.


How tall is your tank? If its 30" and your only running 1 T5HO bulb this is probably putting you at the low end of low light. On top of this if the bulb is old that would lower things even more. Speaking of which what is the K rating of your bulb? You may find that increasing your photoperiod will actually help your algae problem. Or using both bulbs for a shorter photoperiod may work. Using both probably puts you at the low end of medium light or right at medium.

My tank is 20” high and the bulb is new. As mentioned, the K rating is 6,000. I am completely lost in the discussion of the best lighting configuration for a low-tech 80g tank with few hardy plants (Anubias). In my experiment, less lighting meant fewer algae. You are saying algae might decrease with more light. I am confused.:confused:

judy
01-19-2012, 12:42 PM
Thank you all for your input.
Well, it appears that there is no consensus about that. Here is what ExReefer said in post # 5: “I used to run one T5HO bulb on my 75G BB discus tank. I always fought brown algae on the bottom of the tank even though my photo period was only 6 hours. T5HO bulbs are just too intense and not needed on discus tanks (unless growing plants). I sold the 75G and picked up a used 125G with two plain old 30W flouescent bulbs and I no longer have alage issues with a photo period of 7 hrs. a day. As a solution, you can raise your light above the tank or block the intensity with some window screening.”
I followed his advice and I am blocking the intensity of the T5HO lamp with foil.
I am sure if you break up your light cycle and eliminate the cause of the nutrient pollution, you will be absolutely fine.



It is not a planted tank and I have never used CO2. I think now that feeding might be the problem. I did not consider the possiblity of "overfeeding" because the fish were consuming the food quickly with few leftovers. But I might need to reduce the frequency of the feedings. I give them Tetra bits in the morning, then two feedings with flakes (automatic feeder) during the day, and then I give them frozen dried bloodworms at night. Does that sound like overfeeding? Should I change from two to one feeding during the day? Suggestions?
Are these adults? If so, two feedings a day would do nicely. And feed a bit less at each feeding...


I have one 2217 Eheim canister filter. It is less than one year old and I clean it every two or three months. The last time I cleaned it was five weeks ago. So I donīt see a possibility of problems here.
Agreed, that sounds like it would not be the problem.



Thanks for sharing the articles. I will check them. My T5HO lamp is new (one year old). The spectrum is 6,000K. As I said before, if nothing helps I will purchase a PhosBan reactor.
My tank is 20” high and the bulb is new. As mentioned, the K rating is 6,000. I am completely lost in the discussion of the best lighting configuration for a low-tech 80g tank with few hardy plants (Anubias). In my experiment, less lighting meant fewer algae. You are saying algae might decrease with more light. I am confused.:confused:
yeah, 6000k and 20 inches is definitely not the problem, I am absolutely positive. I've been running planted tanks one way or another for 25 years and it is almost always the water quality with algae problems in them-- sometimes quite specific, as in too much iron supplement for your swords sparks BBA.
And it wouldn't hurt to have a phosphate reduction aspect in your filtration in one form or another in any case... phosphates being the big algae yummy-food.

DiscusBR
01-19-2012, 01:29 PM
Thank you for the feedback, Judy. I have 7 adults in the tank. I will start feeding them twice a day. In terms of a a phosphate reduction component in my filtration, I am now considering bying a PhosBan Reactor. I have created a thread in the "tanks/equipments/suplies" section asking specific questions about it. Anyone with experience with this type of reactor please go to:

http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showthread.php?93570-PhosBan-Reactor-puzzles

DiscusBR
01-19-2012, 10:16 PM
Today I started another experiment. After a wipe down and a WC, I am implementing the follwing changes:

1. I have added a powerhead in the back of the tank to increase water circulation;
2. I am blocking part of the light of the T5HO lamp with foil;
3. I am changing the lighting schedule (four hours on, two hours off, four hours on);
4. I am starting to add Flourish Excel (in their recommended dose).

Hopefully this will help with my brown algae problem. I will report the results later.

DiscusBR
01-19-2012, 10:33 PM
Oh, and I almost forgot another change;

5. I am changing from 4 to 2 feedings per day.

DiscusBR
01-25-2012, 09:03 PM
After another week-long experiment, here are results of the 5 measures: they worked!! No brown algae in the tank for a whole week, in which I did not do wipeouts. Unprecedent!! I am very excited with the results (knock on wood...).

It is hard to know what helped, but looking back I think that increased water circulation due to the introduction of the powerhead was a major factor. Previously, brown algae was stronger in the tank areas with less circulation: the background and the right side of the tank, which was opposite to the filter's intake. And I guess Flourish Excel was another major factor.

judy
01-26-2012, 01:02 PM
Good job!

DiscusBR
01-26-2012, 08:11 PM
Good job!

Thank you, Judy, for your generous feedback and thank you all members who contributed to this thread. I learned a lot from all of you.

DiscusBR
02-04-2012, 09:26 PM
16 days after adotping the 6 measures, I am happy to report that my brown algae problem has been solved. I still get algae in my 3D background, but very very little when compared to what I had befofe. And my sand is white after all these days, which is quite unbelievable. As I said, I think more water movement was a key factor. And I guess Flourish Excel was aslo important.

boxhead1990
02-13-2012, 11:45 PM
phosguard is only a temp fix to phosphate problems rowaphose is s better product phosguard is only meant to be used for a few daysand then thrown away rowaphose can be used for months


Sent from my iPhone

Trier20
02-24-2012, 07:38 PM
less light more wc's

DiscusBR
02-24-2012, 09:58 PM
I came back from a two-week trip today. During my absence, a friend came and did one 50% WC. I fed the fish once a day and left lights on for 4 hours/day. Those who read the beginning of this thread know that when I did this in the Christmas/New Year break my tank was completely covered by brown algae. Horrible sight, as the pic shows. This time I got some brown algae in the background and in the sand, but nothing compared to the disastrous situation I found back then. So the measures were quite effective.

However, I want to get rid of the algae problem completely and I brought a Phosban 150 reactor from my trip. I just installed it. I hope it will be the final solution.

xschug3
07-18-2012, 01:08 AM
Has the phosban 150 reactor helped? I read through this whole thread because I have virtually the same problem you have. I also use PFS as substrate and have a canister filter and have 2 TFHO 54watt bulbs on my 84 gallon tank. I have bad brown (rust) algae. I have always thought the tank circulation was poor using the Fluval 405 canister filter. I will try increasing my flow using a powerhead. I hope that does the trick. I don't even have fish in the tank because I don't want to add fish with such bad algae problems. I leave the lights on for 6 hours per day. I learned a lot from this thread....

DiscusBR
07-18-2012, 12:53 PM
Yes, the Phosban reactor helped. With increased water cirulation after the introduction of a powerhead, use of Flourish Excel, weaker lighting (one instead of two T5 HO 54w bulbs), and the Phosban reactor, I have solved my brown algae problem.

xschug3
07-23-2012, 10:44 PM
DiscusBR, thanks for the reply. How did you set your light up to use only 1 bulb?? I've tried using only 1 bulb but when I remove 1 bulb, the other will not work. Both bulbs must be plugged in to complete the circuit for them both to work.

I'm hesitant to wrap the bulb in foil to block the light because I don't want the bulb to overheat and burst.

Thanks for your help!

DiscusBR
07-23-2012, 10:57 PM
DiscusBR, thanks for the reply. How did you set your light up to use only 1 bulb?? I've tried using only 1 bulb but when I remove 1 bulb, the other will not work. Both bulbs must be plugged in to complete the circuit for them both to work.

I'm hesitant to wrap the bulb in foil to block the light because I don't want the bulb to overheat and burst.

Thanks for your help!

Sorry, I can't help you with that. Mine worked fine with just one bulb.