Recommendations on sump build

[mdlman99]

Hey guys, well i just purchased a used 120g tank and stand combo. The tank itself is 48x24x24. The tank purchase came with a wet/dry sump with bio balls (traditional salt water setup). Its an all- glass 120g with duel overflows built in. I want to build my own sump/filtration to be perfect for discus. Planning to get 10-12 discus 3+ size to growout. Going to throw some manzanita wood and possibly some pool filter sand to make it look more natural. Putting 2 Hydor pumps for circulation as well as to keep debris from settling on the bottom of the tank. Going with a fishless cycle.

-Any recommendations on what size tank/sump to use?
-How many/what type of return pumps to use?
-Biomedia?
-Type of heaters to use and what wattage?
-Anything else?

Im in no rush to get discus in there. I want to get this right the first time =)

Thanks for your help! Im hoping I can post pics of the build for you guys. I still have to pick up the tank. I just got the stand and sump ( really heavy!!! ) expecting the tank to be heavier =(.

[Darrell Ward]

I would get a 40 gal. tank, wedge a piece of 4" thick Poret foam across the middle, making a chamber, add 4 to 6 airstones to this chamber, hook to a large airpump, or use multiple smaller ones, and also add Kaldness bio media to this chamber. Also plumb your drains to empty into this chamber. On the other side of the sump, add 1, 250 watt Jager heater, an Eheim 1262 pump, attach 3/4" tubing, add a check valve, tee tubing off to make 2 returns. Fill with water, and start the cycle. Easy. You can do this in 30 minutes or less.

[DerekFF]

Darrell forgets were not all rich lol. He's got solid thoughts though. A 40g would be perfect size and ball valves are a must do. That's a lot of water to move for head pressure if you were planning just 1 return pump. And the beauty of a sump is that you cam make it however you want. Ill elaborate more when I get off this damn phone and onto my comp

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[Darrell Ward]

Not that expensive at all. Much cheaper than a ready made sump filter, plus you have a fluidized bed bio reactor. Way more efficient than most other forms filtration. A 1262 pump with 3/4" tubing is really more than you need for a 120 gal, but it'll work fine without the need to cut it back. I've done it on a 125 gal. without problems.

[mdlman99]

Sounds great guys! Thx for the help, any blueprints on these builds somewhere?

[dbfzurowski]

+1 on kaldness
this is my diy sump
http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showthread.php?91354-55-Gal-Aquarium-in-Wall-diy-sump-stand-overflow-lighting-diy-everything-lol

[Darrell Ward]

+1 on kaldness
this is my diy sump
http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showthread.php?91354-55-Gal-Aquarium-in-Wall-diy-sump-stand-overflow-lighting-diy-everything-lol

Mine works the same, except the Poret foam divides the sump tank, and also act as a mech. filter. Hard to see, but the foam is the dark blue piece on the left in picture. Note the 1 1/2" drain lines under the water line in the media chamber. This cuts down on noise, and the force of the water from the open pipes helps to keep the media tumbling as well. This filter is made from a 55 gal. tank, and handles a 240 gal. tank full of wild Discus.
There really are no blueprints for filters like these, it all comes from the builder's head. The concept is really simple, you add air to the Kaldness media to keep it in constant motion and tumbling, and something to act as mech. filtration. That's it! It's that simple, and way more effective than static bed filters. The media is self cleaning due to the design, and all the added air helps to strip CO2 from the water, and increases oxygen saturation by a ton. This also helps keep larger than normal bacteria colonies thriving, with strains of bacteria not normally seen in a static bed, or so I've been told.

[mdlman99]

If the blue foam acts as the mechanical filter, how often do you take it out and rinse it? Does it filter out fine particles? When and if you take it out won't the media spread out all over the place?

[Darrell Ward]

You only need to clean it about twice a year. Seriously. Ask Hans. He also uses the Poret Form sheets. Amazing stuff! Yes it does filter fine particles enough to keep the water clear. You really can't ask for more, and it's so easy. I pump the water out of the sump, the media just falls to the bottom, then remove the foam. I have a couple of sheets, so I just remove the dirty one, wipe out the sump, and install a clean sheet of foam, and refill the sump. The dirty foam is rinsed out with a garden hose outside.

[tolga]

Hi Darrel, thank you for sharing this with us. Are the Poret Form Sheets positioned pre Kaldness or post Kaldness? From your explanation and the photo, it lookes as if the incoming water from the main tank enters the Kalness chambers first and goes through the foam section. would it be alright if it was the other way around? i.e. the incoming water going through the foam section and becoming mechanically filtered before getting in contact with the kaldness media? would there be any need to add a final section with fiter wool in order to polish the water? I also wondered about the air bubbles. Are they loud? For my new system which is still at the planning stage I was thinking of using an oxydator unit which is a simple non electrical unit producing a continuous supply of pure oxygen. The idea would be to place the Oxydator after the mechanical chamber and immediately before the Kaldness chamber and place two or three powerheads inside the Kaldness chamber use these instead of air bubbles to keep the media tumbling. I thought that this would be infinitely quiter and result in high redox values. i came to this view after I tried to make sense of the way in which pure oxygen was being added on a continous basis in the filtration system that has been designed by Piwowarski. Do you think it could work? Thanks again
Tolga

[mdlman99]

Awesome! i will definitely get all the parts needed to get this sump going. Ill post more with updates, thx a ton!!!

[Darrell Ward]

Tolga, water is piped into the media chamber unfiltered, and the water makes it's own way through the 4" thick Poret Foam. A pre filter is not needed. I had a pre filter when I first set this up, but it only added noise, so I removed it without problems. With the drain pipe from the tank under the waterline in the media chamber, there is hardly any noise. The airstones make no noise really either, the noise is very slight. Mostly just hear the slight hum of the pumps. If the drain pipe is above the waterline, it makes all kinds of spashing noises that I hate. I have no idea about using pure oxygen as I don't have any experience using it.

[mdlman99]

do i want the 30ppi foam? Only place i could find it was on swisstropicals. What size sheet would i need for a 40 gallon long sump?

[tolga]

Darrell, Thanks for your helpful response. This is a very impressive system. it's so simple yet so effective.

[Darrell Ward]

do i want the 30ppi foam? Only place i could find it was on swisstropicals. What size sheet would i need for a 40 gallon long sump?
Yeah, I used 30ppi, 4" thick foam from swisstropicals. Honestly, I don't remember exactly the size of the sheet I ordered, it was a year or so ago. Best thing to do I guess, is get your sump tank first so you can get the exact measurements. I cut mine about one inch wider than my 55 gal. sump with a big knife and framing square, so that it would tightly wedge inside the tank.


Darrell, Thanks for your helpful response. This is a very impressive system. it's so simple yet so effective.
No problem. The system works much better than other methods of sump filtration I've used.

[Craigmax]

Darrel, I'm contemplating your same setup as it seems simple and quite effecient. Swisstropicals offers 45ppi foam. Would you go with that over 30? Thanks

[CajunAg]

I use Seachem matrix in my sump, which is just a 20gal with baffles to channel the water flow. I use a filter sock at the water outlet into the sump (which is below the water level to minimize noise) and have three Jager heaters hooked up to a Digital Aquatics Reefkeeper Lite. Every drop of water is channeled through the media chamber, and I have a Mag 9.5 to pump it back to the tank. With my setup, I just change the filter socks at each water change and rinse the media every other month or so.

[mdlman99]

I copied darrells build except that I added a filter sock. During every water change I rinse out the sock and that's it. I think its a good setup, my wilds seem to like it :)

[boxhead1990]

i went with a 3 chsmbered set up that i need to get some filter socks for on my 120 the 2 baflles are set up so water goes under then over and i have 3 kg of ceramic noodles in the middle section and 2 300 watt heaters in the last chamber with a cheap 2000litre an hour pump for return its simple (more work involved then other sugestions above) but it works a treat and i run a external durso style overflow without a weir when the back was painted you couldnt see it but now that its not painted it stands out but is pretty damn quiet compared to how it was set up


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