ADDING chlorine to disinfect water - dosage????

[shoveltrash]

so I think I've narrowed my *problems* (i.e. cause of Discus death) to contamination of my well water with Iron/Iron bacteria. textbook orange slime developing in water storage barrel - has gotten more pronounced & coincided with the onset of sickness of my Discus :(.

I have put a 13w UV sterilizer in my water storage barrel, but want to add chlorine, just to be sure of disinfection!
does anyone know the effective disinfectant dosage amount of chlorine per gallon?????





funny, searching here all I can find are a gazillion posts about removing chlorine LOL. none about "adding" :)

[TURQ64]

RO, RO, RO your boat....

[Bud]

I want to say a 8- 10% solution?

[Chicago Discus]

RO, RO, RO your boat....
I agree with gary trish RO is the way to go

[shoveltrash]

"RO your boat," yes, I've got my 100gpd unit here ready to be installed.............but RO doesn't remove bacteria, does it?????

thanks Bud - but i'm piss poor at mathematics, so say 55g --- how do I calculate 10% solution? is it really 5gallons? (seems like a LOT)

[Chicago Discus]

"RO your boat," yes, I've got my 100gpd unit here ready to be installed.............but RO doesn't remove bacteria, does it?????

thanks Bud - but i'm piss poor at mathematics, so say 55g --- how do I calculate 10% solution? is it really 5gallons? (seems like a LOT)
Trish the only think I'm afraid of is chasing the chlorine out after you disinfect its going to make your water unstable......

[ShinShin]

I would say a cup or two would be fine.

Mat

[Bud]

Of course that rate is for general equiptment cleaning,I really dont know about water sterilization,but youre going to ariate it out soooo.And a ++++1 to turq!Im running a post on purewater clubs ro systems to get some feed back on quality of their units

[Keith Perkins]

Trish, what you probably really want to do first is make up a bleach solution of a few gallons and lightly scrub all the surfaces of your water reservoir etc. and then switch over to RO if you're worried about bacteria. Empty out the reservoir after your done, let it completely air dry, a quick rinse just to be safe and you're good to go. You sure don't want to make up 55 gallons of bleach solution and you definitely don't want the chlorine getting into contact with your discus.

[TURQ64]

here's some info..
http://www.health.state.mn.us/divs/eh/wells/waterquality/disinfection.pdf

[shoveltrash]

I got Buckeye's premium 100gpd unit - talked to Russ on the phone who was a HUGE help :).

but I REALLY want to cut the RO with tap.......for pH stabilization. so I'm back to having iron bacteria in the water, unless of course that UV sterilizer sitting in my barrel actually does the job (unsure about this).
he only think I'm afraid of is chasing the chlorine out after you disinfect its going to make your water unstable......I didn't realize that chlorine removal destabilizes water?

[Keith Perkins]

here's some info..
http://www.health.state.mn.us/divs/eh/wells/waterquality/disinfection.pdf

Gee, at those concentrations you could fill the whole 55 gallon drum.

[eaglesfan3000]

Call the county to come and inspect your water, they should do it for free. That's what I did when I couldn't get an accurate reading on my PH. Come to find out my high PH test kit is FUBAR and was't reading correctly.

[ericatdallas]

I don't use a well, but I learned about sodium thiosulfate from a friend who said his father-in-law had a well and used it after super-chlorination. Is that okay to do?

I would say +1 to RO filter though.

[joanstone]

http://www.ci.bellevue.wa.us/pdf/Utilities/Iron_bacterial_fact_sheet.pdf

[Bud]

Trish ny math is screwed up (as am I dentel surgery+pain meds)But youd need like 4-5 gals for a 8-10% solution,thats crazy!Think Ill check out that ro supplier you used.THe one I checked out has a uv add on kit for the unit.

[shoveltrash]

http://www.health.state.mn.us/divs/e...sinfection.pdfoy.....all that is making my head spin! :crazy:
I was just going to treat the water for WCs, not the whole well.


since according to this

http://www.ci.bellevue.wa.us/pdf/Uti...fact_sheet.pdf
iron bacteria isn't 'harmful' - but tell that to my dead Discus :(.





!Think Ill check out that ro supplier you used.THe one I checked out has a uv add on kit for the unit.Bud talk to Russ - and tell him that Trish recommended him! :) I preferred to get a separate UV submersible unit, because otherwise you have to monkey around with pumps & specific flow rates for UV effectiveness......

I'm still no clearer on this LOL.
maybe I'll just stick with RO (all of the "+1s" are swaying me). but I'll need to buffer it & add minerals <sigh>.

[Sean Buehrle]

All this sounds dangerous.

If I had your problem.

I would invest in a dedicated line running from the well line like being t'd off and use a whole house filter with an inline carbon filter.
Then run that to a couple hundred gpd ro filter.

Wouldn't be that hard or expensive to do.
I've had really good results with purewaterclub. Com ro filters.

They are cheap and kick butt.
I've recomended them to quite a few people and so far they have delivered.
Mine since July is still pumping out 6 Tds water.
I paid 99 bucks delivered for 100 gpd.
Good luck.

[shoveltrash]

I agree, the chlorine thing sounds dangerous to me too. dunno why I thought it might be a simple fix, just a splash of chlorine to kill bugs, then voila! <feelingverystoopid>
I've already got a whole house filter, but no carbon. one more thing to look into. off to check out purewterclub dot com! thanks Sean.

[ericatdallas]

Trish, Scott293 ordered his from purewaterclub too... I am looking at a unit there as well. Seems to have good prices but I hear they have poor customer service. They have good reviews on eBay, but they offer 'discounts' on their website. I'm debating the dual system w/ tank or w/o tank. I know that's ridiculous but I don't want to spend extra money if we don't use it, but I also don't want to get stuck with not having it if we need it <sigh>

At least I have my aging barrel setup. Dang, it's handy. No more worries about microbubbles, chlorine, and temperatures being off. I have to setup a second barrel, but just having a 55G is a helpful. It also is strategically located in the room so I no longer have to use multiple hoses and maneuver my hose to fill my tanks.

[Bud]

Alright!Ive been checking out purewaterclub for my filter too .And because no-one wants to answer my post but accually answers it on Trishs(probly cause shes prettier!:) )Im gonna order that sucker when Im done here.And although they have good prices(with uv sterilizer and upgraded 6 gallon holding tank with sink faucet alil over 2 bills),I noticed all the pre filters only go down to 5 mics,(others go finer),they dont seem to sell there own pumps?And yes I believe all service is done online.O well guess you can buy better prefilters somewhere else.Cant beat the deal!

[Sean Buehrle]

Alright!Ive been checking out purewaterclub for my filter too .And because no-one wants to answer my post but accually answers it on Trishs(probly cause shes prettier!:) )Im gonna order that sucker when Im done here.And although they have good prices(with uv sterilizer and upgraded 6 gallon holding tank with sink faucet alil over 2 bills),I noticed all the pre filters only go down to 5 mics,(others go finer),they dont seem to sell there own pumps?And yes I believe all service is done online.O well guess you can buy better prefilters somewhere else.Cant beat the deal!

You can buy filter packs from the filter guys.
I suggest buying a chlorine test kit too.
They are 15 bucks and are the correct chlorine test kit to use for aquarium use.
They test for any amount of chlorine which chlorine test kits used in pool applications do not.
While its true that carbon filters remove chlorine, unless you are testing your ro water you are just guessing when to replace the carbon.
I've seen chlorine kill whole hobbiests fish rooms.
Chlorine scares me more than anything, your fish look fine for a couple hours, you hit the sack and wake up to dead fish.

Buy the correct tool for the job.

[Bud]

Yikes!Tryin to freak us out eh?Ill be aging in ro/tap mix in a 90 gal barrel,my ph starts at 6.6 ends at 8.2!!!Will it still swing that much(CO2 gassing)?????!!!!!

[Sean Buehrle]

Nope no scare tactic, just a heads up.

[joanstone]

Could you direct me to the information that lead you to believe that this is what killed your fish. I'm not disagreeing with you, I'm truly interested. I'm fairly certain that my well water has iron bacteria in it, yet I've never experienced any problem with my fish (I have a lot of fish) nor have I read anything to indicate that it's harmful to fish. BTW, I agree- I would probably get an RO unit one way or another anyway though.

[shoveltrash]

Joan I have done ENDLESS research on the variables that could have caused problems with my Discus.
your well water may indeed have iron bacteria, but I'm betting that every time you empty your water storage container it doesn't leave a slimy orange residue on every surface.
this has progressively gotten worse. in fact the last time I did a water change there were slimy "floaties" in the water as well (and this is filtered x 2, softened water).
my Discus were fine for 4+ months, perfect in fact. then a slow degradation in eating & behavior, then the swim bladder problems, then death.
I'm betting in small amounts iron &/or iron bacteria aren't harmful. anything like that in excess probably is......
interesting that my Angelfish were unaffected though.


ok Sean you've scared me off chlorine completely!!!! LOL
thanks :). I'm also gonna source a plumber to check out this option: "I would invest in a dedicated line running from the well line like being t'd off and use a whole house filter with an inline carbon filter. Then run that to a couple hundred gpd ro filter." but for now I'll set up my RO under the kitchen sink & go from there.

I checked out the purewater dot com site, kinda wish I'd found that sooner, BUT, *customer service* means the world to me. I'll pay more $ for good support, which I got via telephone with Buckeye. and their system was reasonable.

I'm debating the dual system w/ tank or w/o tank. I know that's ridiculous but I don't want to spend extra money if we don't use it, but I also don't want to get stuck with not having it if we need it <sigh>I ended up ordering one with tank, like you I was debating this.....but I'd rather 'have it if I need' so to speak.



because no-one wants to answer my post but accually answers it on Trishs(probly cause shes prettier! )poor Bud!!!!!!
more (((HUGS))) :D

[joanstone]

That water certainly sounds disgusting. How long have you lived there and what's the water like in the rest of your house? With water like that how can you use it for anything? Laundry, washing dishes, cooking, brushing your teeth?? Have you had a water expert over for a consultation on how to effectively deal with this? I understand it's hard to completely eradicate, but I would be interested in remedying the situation for my whole house.

[shoveltrash]

I've lived here one year.......the water only develops the orange film when 'sitting.' as in ageing - in a barrel.
never had this problem prior to ageing my water. but I had to age, because pH from tap is 7.3ish and aged pH is 8.3!
the other place this film is noticeable is inside the clear housings of my pre & post water softener filters. I'm guessing because there is residual buildup?

I need a *unbiased water expert*. however FINDING one who isn't just trying to sell you their particular product (!) is a challenge. my current 'water expert' told me that I needed a whole house UV system, which would eradicate any/all bacteria. I'm just not sold on this, yet (esp when his UV system costs $900+!!!).
it really is driving me bonkers. the county will test water, for a BIG fee. each individual test costs just less than $100 (1 for bacteria.....1 for minerals...etc).
the softening system does a good job of removing the 'hard minerals,' but obviously dissolved iron is sneaking thru.

Joan how do you know you have iron bacteria?
have you tested for iron itself? I've got a iron test kit on order......it'll be interesting to see the results!

edited to add: prior to the last water change for the Angelfish, I used my new submersible 13w UV filter in the water storage barrel, ran overnight. the water was clearer!

[TURQ64]

I'm trying to hang back on this one, but I'm curious..Why are the Angel's healthy, and not the Discus, if it's an 'iron thing'..?..I generally find Discus 'tougher' than Angelfish, when their immune systems are in check.. do a google search under 'iron filters'..if you own the home, probably worth it..renting, well, an RO unit travels..

[joanstone]

I guess I would still have my water tested. Since you've only been there for a year, do you have water test results from when you were having your house inspected prior to sale? If so, you should just have to test for the bacteria and anything else relevant that they didn't do. I know iron bacteria is a test you generally have to request. Oops, I just saw that you have a kit on order. If you have already tested for the usual checklist of items, that should probably do it but I would want a pretty complete run down on my water if my water looked like that. We bought our house 2 1/2 years ago and having a very thorough water test was a key point for me. We had a contract on one house that fell through because of the results of the water test. It had arsenic, radon and a host of other nasties in it. Have you talked to well drillers? I would be doing that to see what their take on it is. I know it's hard to completely eradicate. They may be able to point you toward a reputable source to solve your problems as well. Do you have a hot water tank or is your system on demand? There must be a nasty build up in your toilet and HWT if you have one. I do not know whether I have the bacteria for sure-I'd never heard of it until now. It's definitely in the water in the areas near my house. I see water like you describe in many areas here. I do get a slight build up of brown slime in my water collection/mixing barrels, but since I use RO with some tap mixed in it's not a lot. I started noticing it when I started adding tap water in to mix with RO instead of stuff like equilibrium or ro right. That's what first made me think I might have it. I use that water for my reef tanks and discus. I do use straight well water in other tanks though with no build up. Maybe I don't have it, but I might look into testing for it.

[shoveltrash]

I'm trying to hang back on this one, but I'm curious..Why are the Angel's healthy, and not the Discus, if it's an 'iron thing'..?..I generally find Discus 'tougher' than Angelfish, when their immune systems are in check.. do a google search under 'iron filters'..if you own the home, probably worth it..renting, well, an RO unit travels..
Lord, do not "hang back"!!!!! let it all hang out! LOL
NO IDEA why these stinkin' Angels are so hardy! they were raised from dime size to adulthood in this water, perhaps that's it?
I've searched iron filters and WOWZA they are high this is the cheapest thing I can find: http://www.google.com/products/catalog?client=safari&rls=en&q=iron+filter&oe=UTF-8&um=1&ie=UTF-8&tbm=shop&cid=6193567901531338394&sa=X&ei=J0YcT86yFMre0QHVgpHZCw&ved=0CJMBEPMCMAA#ps-sellers
and then there is this:
http://www.watervalue.com/greensand/5616aif-10-mg.html
and hey-ho it recharges itself with PP! interesting.
and after corresponding with Martha here (thanks Martha!), I realize that it probably requires an oxidation system....since the iron is evidently evading traditional filtration.
from Ask.com "Ferrous iron, also called clear-water iron, is not yet red and rusty because it has not been exposed to oxygen long enough. It fully dissolves in water, therefore evading filtration. Install an oxidation-filtration system. There are several kinds but they share the common strategy of oxidizing (rusting) the iron in order to be able to filter it out of the water."


since I own the home, I should invest in this.........I've already spent so much money on stinkin' WATER :crazy:. revising the softening system, adding more filtration, la la la la.......

Joan I have the form printed out to send in to the county. I may go tuesday and talk to them about it. altho not sure when I'll have time for all of this - Mother in hospital, & work, all takes up my time :(.

[Ardan]

A water softener removes minerals, but replaces them with sodium I believe. If you then run that water through an RO you will have pure water and will have to add back minerals, but that may be the best option if the well water is definately a problem. The minerals would have to be added in a water barrel and allow the ph to stabalize. Probably would be a good idea to test for bacteria for your own health. I had a friend who periodically had to bleach his well due to bacteria. He since moved. I would think a carbon filter would help remove the bleach (sodium hypochlorite).
http://www.apswater.com/article.asp?id=38&title=Chlorination,_Chlorine_and_Sodium_Hypochlori te
article that may help
hth
Ardan

[jimg]

like I mentioned to you before, so much easier/cheaper to bring a water sample to a local lab. they will give you a bottle and directions just tell them what additional concerns may be. around here I believe the last sample I sent for my well next door was $35.00 or somewhere around that. that will take the guess out of what will work for you or if you actually even have a water problem.
Call you town hall or local health dept for lab info if you can't find one

[Sean Buehrle]

like I mentioned to you before, so much easier/cheaper to bring a water sample to a local lab. they will give you a bottle and directions just tell them what additional concerns may be. around here I believe the last sample I sent for my well next door was $35.00 or somewhere around that. that will take the guess out of what will work for you or if you actually even have a water problem.
Call you town hall or local health dept for lab info if you can't find one

That's a good idea.

[shoveltrash]

application has now been sent to the 'official' county water inspector office......ouch the fee is high :(. but hey, getting it tested by a professional will help me sort things out. altho I'm betting that I know what the results will be. I just hope it won't take forever, as government agencies typically do. once they receive my application/payment, fingers crossed they'll come out soon to get the sample for testing.



A water softener removes minerals, but replaces them with sodium I believe. If you then run that water through an RO you will have pure water and will have to add back minerals, but that may be the best option if the well water is definately a problem. The minerals would have to be added in a water barrel and allow the ph to stabalize. my water softener removes minerals & replaces them with potassium chloride, instead of sodium. my short term plan is to run this water thru RO & add minerals as you mentioned.
after water testing results, then I'll have more of a *plan of action*. but I'm betting that I'll need to shock the well (kill bacteria), and install a oxidation iron filter system. ugh.

one thing at a time!

thanks for all the advice :)

[jimg]

application has now been sent to the 'official' county water inspector office......ouch the fee is high . but hey, getting it tested by a professional will help me sort things out. altho I'm betting that I know what the results will be. I just hope it won't take forever, as government agencies typically do. once they receive my application/payment, fingers crossed they'll come out soon to get the sample for testing.

I'm surprised they come out to do the test. Usually around here we go to the lab get a bottle take a sample and bring it back to them. Same as an inspector would do when your buying a house and getting an inspection. At least you will know the bacterial counts and heavy metals etc