Help with PH stability!

[Mep1127]

Hey all

I seem to have an issue with PH. Today when i checked my water parameters I did a pretty big water change ( 50%) because i saw ammonia going up. PH was were I wanted it to be around 6.8 to 7.0. The fish were doing fine but after feeding them one of them was laying on his side a little. So I did another PH test and it was around 6.4! I'm sure hes probably shocked. My guess is i should do partial water changes every hour to bring the PH up slowly? The PH from my tap is around 6.8 - 7.0 and i Don't want my PH to keep yo-yo ing. Not sure if i should add some salt to soothe the shock

[jimg]

check the ph of the tap again. from 6.8 to 6.4 shouldn't make them lay on the bottom, it may darken them for a bit. what are you using for tests? how are nitrites? do you dechlor the tap or age it?

[Mep1127]

I use the api master test kit nitrites are zero. I usually add some prime for big water changes but for small ones i dont add anything. I'm worried about my discus though. I have a good feeling it is something with PH doing this to him, he's been fine all this time eating very well in the past when PH was 6.8ish. In any case not sure why my PH goes up and down and how to make my discus feel better again.

[jimg]

Is this the same fish you posted in another thread the other day? I think your problems are water, not just ph from 6.4 to 6.8 either. I don't think it's cycled for one.

[Orange Crush]

I usually add some prime for big water changes but for small ones i dont add anything.
Always use prime even for little water changes. the chlorine could be effecting your discus negatively among other things.

[Mep1127]

Thanks guys for your posts.... I guess overreacted again (first time keeping discus, already lost two =[ ). I just fed him right now hes eating like usual. Whatever it was he snapped out of it. Although the PH still yo-yos like ive said. I will use prime for all water changes then. I can still use some advice with PH.

Out of curiosity did the PH just change because I did a 50% change at once? Should I have done it in little increments through out the day? How can give the PH a slight boost when its low? I have another community tank whose PH is constant, for whatever reason my discus tank is somewhat unstable when it comes to that.

[Orange Crush]

How hard/soft is your tap water?

[Mep1127]

Is this the same fish you posted in another thread the other day? I think your problems are water, not just ph from 6.4 to 6.8 either. I don't think it's cycled for one.

No different fish..hes doing a bit better though BTW lol. As for cycling I did do a fishless for a few till I discovered that bio spira stuff...I guess there is no shortcut to anything ( thought bio spira was instant cycle in a bottle :confused: )

[Mep1127]

How hard/soft is your tap water?

I dont know the exact hardness of my water but my guess is that its soft. I usually never have to buffer it or anything.

[Orange Crush]

There are at least two reasons that pH can fluctuate (that I know of anyways). It would be nice to know what the kh/gh of your water is so we would know if that is a factor. You say that you have never had to buffer before, in those tanks did you have substrate that was for specifically for plants? Do you substrate in the tank you are having the pH fluctuations in?

[Mep1127]

There are at least two reasons that pH can fluctuate (that I know of anyways). It would be nice to know what the kh/gh of your water is so we would know if that is a factor. You say that you have never had to buffer before, in those tanks did you have substrate that was for specifically for plants? Do you substrate in the tank you are having the pH fluctuations in?

no its a barebottom tank, however my other tank has regular gravel in it if that helps

[Orange Crush]

no its a barebottom tank, however my other tank has regular gravel in it if that helps
I asked because if your other tank had plant substrate that often acts like a buffer and you said you never had to buffer before so I thought maybe substrate might be part of the equation that was missing from this tank with the pH fluctuations. Apparently not.
How big is the tank and how many fish and what size are they?
A very heavy bioload can crash your pH especially if your tank is not cycled and it is overstocked.

[Mep1127]

I asked because if your other tank had plant substrate that often acts like a buffer and you said you never had to buffer before so I thought maybe substrate might be part of the equation that was missing from this tank with the pH fluctuations. Apparently not.
How big is the tank and how many fish and what size are they?
A very heavy bioload can crash your pH especially if your tank is not cycled and it is overstocked.

55 gal w/ 3 discus all in the 3 to 3.5 range I have an fx5 running with matrix, purigen and some filter pads

[Orange Crush]

My best GUESS is that your water is very soft and your tank is not cycled. It would be helpful if you could test the kh and let us know what that is. In the meantime since your tank is having ammonia issues I recommend doing a lot of water changes to keep that as close to 0 as possible. Since you do not want to shock them from pH fluctuations, I would think that doing at least a few partial water changes per day would be best so that the pH does not change much from water change to water change. But you will have to do water changes as often as necessary to keep the water parameters good.

[Mep1127]

My best GUESS is that your water is very soft and your tank is not cycled. It would be helpful if you could test the kh and let us know what that is. In the meantime since your tank is having ammonia issues I recommend doing a lot of water changes to keep that as close to 0 as possible. Since you do not want to shock them from pH fluctuations, I would think that doing at least a few partial water changes per day would be best so that the pH does not change much from water change to water change. But you will have to do water changes as often as necessary to keep the water parameters good.

alright ill see if I buy a kit 2mm for kh. ammonia is not terribly high around 0.25ppm but I like to have all my parameters in check. I guess my filter is not mature ( safestart didnt instant cycle Ias it claims). ill do small changes of water throughout the day instead of large ones. ill be updating tmm. thanks for your help

[jimg]

safe start/dr timms will cycle the tanks I found about 70+% of the time. problem is you cannot do wc's or tank cleanings because your taking it back out. like i said before that small ph change will not bother them nor will .25 ammonia in a ph of 6.8 or below. slow down on feeding,make sure water is the same during wc's you could take some of the substrate out of the other tank andf add it to this one. and keep your hands out of the tank!

[DiscusLoverJeff]

It might not be such an issue with a PH swing as with a difference in your TDS. From all reports on threads, TDS is more important for discus than PH. It could of been a big change in TDS that caused the reaction.

Do you test TDS?

[judy]

ammonia is not terribly high around 0.25ppm but I like to have all my parameters in check. I guess my filter is not mature ( safestart didnt instant cycle Ias it claims). ill do small changes of water throughout the day instead of large ones. ill be updating tmm. thanks for your help

you are definitely still cycling. that ammonia level should be zero in a cycled tank. make those frequent water changes larger rather than smaller.

[Mep1127]

It might not be such an issue with a PH swing as with a difference in your TDS. From all reports on threads, TDS is more important for discus than PH. It could of been a big change in TDS that caused the reaction.

Do you test TDS?

that I don't test for...it seems that I need to go out and get more tests lol

[PAR23]

Hi there Mep........Is that S. Huntington Suffolk county????? If so, I'm not too far away. The pH out of tap is around 7.5 which increases to 8.0 after being aged. TDS is 90-100. I don't know what our kH/gH is, never had to really. I do age my water but never had any pH swings like what you have described or swings at all. Something else is going on in your tank and I'm with the others, the tank is cycling. Even though I age my water, I still add Safe during every WC. My paranoia.

[Mep1127]

Hi there Mep........Is that S. Huntington Suffolk county????? If so, I'm not too far away. The pH out of tap is around 7.5 which increases to 8.0 after being aged. TDS is 90-100. I don't know what our kH/gH is, never had to really. I do age my water but never had any pH swings like what you have described or swings at all. Something else is going on in your tank and I'm with the others, the tank is cycling. Even though I age my water, I still add Safe during every WC. My paranoia.

yes it is, suffolk county lol. my tap is 6.8 to 7....not sure why it changes so much in my tank. I condition with prime. perhaps aeration is my problem, I know more oxygen in the tank means a higher PH and maybe thats why my.other tank is so stable,.the surface is always agitated. CO2 usually decreases PH. ill see if air pumps help

[PAR23]

If you aerate your water, the pH should go up as CO2 is gassed off. The drop in pH is likely effects of a tank not completely cycled. Once cycled, your pH will stabilize.

[Mep1127]

If you aerate your water, the pH should go up as CO2 is gassed off. The drop in pH is likely effects of a tank not competely cycled. Once cycled, your pH will stabilize.

alright I see... its a "young" tank. discus have been doing good so far, luckily I have time to monitor them. they've been there for 2 weeks going on 3...so I guess a few more weeks should do it. Thanks to everyone for feedback.

[judy]

Just a note here for future reference... you should always cycle a tank BEFORE adding fish-- especially discus.

[Mep1127]

Just a note here for future reference... you should always cycle a tank BEFORE adding fish-- especially discus.

agreed, nothing bests an old fashioned cycle... safestart = crap