MY EXPERIENCE WITH STRESS AND DISCUS

[Chicago Discus]

Hello my fellow Discus lovers,

I want to share my experience dealing with Discus that need some sort of treatment or just needs to be moved to a hospital tank. First no matter what the problem is with the fish as soon as I move him to the hospital tank he starts looking worst and this has happened time and time again. Im not really sure what that exactly means but In my observation the fish seems to get really stressed out by one being alone or two the medication that Im giving him. I have learned that fresh clean water is the best method in dealing with Discus that are sick. With that said, stress plays a huge roll I mean HUGE roll in the mortality of the fish. In the past I have been quick to move Discus to a hospital tank when I see signs that the fish is not feeling good in the hopes to treat the problem when in fact I'm creating a bigger problem by moving him to another tank most of the time by himself. What I'm trying to get at is that when we move Discus that are not looking great it adds more stress on the fish causing their natural immune system to weaken and then we start pushing meds in their system causing even more stress to their immune system. Im only sharing this with everyone because I have learned this the hard way and not only has it been very expensive (loosing the Discus or medication)but the stress on myself on loosing the Discus that I have love and care for. So with all that said when you have a Fish thats not looking great don't be so fast to move him to a hospital tank try lots of fresh clean water or try treating the whole tank with all it occupants they do much better together and that plays a huge part in the recovery of your sick Discus. what ever is making the Discus sick has already contaminated the whole tank so treating them all would not necessarily be a bad thing but first give them a chance to recover on their own with lots of fresh clean water. I have had much better results this way. Thanks ............Josie

[farebox]

I have to agree 100% on this one, just the other day had a 4" blue diamond stressed out, turning real dark color at times. Rather than move and try some meds on this fish, I just kept him the 55GA with 4 other discus and did 50% WC daily for a week. Now my good buddy is back to normal and no meds, just good of plain H2O....Thanks
farebox

[Chicago Discus]

I have to agree 100% on this one, just the other day had a 4" blue diamond stressed out, turning real dark color at times. Rather than move and try some meds on this fish, I just kept him the 55GA with 4 other discus and did 50% WC daily for a week. Now my good buddy is back to normal and no meds, just good of plain H2O....Thanks
farebox
I just wanted to share this so new or more experienced Discus keepers can just go back to the basics.......Josie

[1Chuck9669]

Man, I agree, if there is a sick fish the WHOLE tank is probably contaminated. I have found it favorable also to treat my 125g rather than move a single fish to a "hospital tank". Yes, the medications cost more, but I agree the stress is less. I also agree, the best treatment is large and frequent water changes. I have also found that keeping my tank heated to 84 degrees F. keeps my fish healthy. So far I have been able to keep my fish alive for four years (since I got them) and have had no major outbreaks. Of course I haven't added too many additions as far as fish go. I did survive an achor worm infestation when my grandson added fish he hand-caught from our local park. THAT was scary and I lost a lot of tetras in the process but no Discus lost. Have a great night.

[discuspaul]

A very good post !
Couldn't agree more - a simple, but accurate observation, imho.
Stress, of whatever kind, and from whatever source, is the single most propelling kind of cause to weakening, or further weakening, of the immune system in humans, animals, or fish -any living being, with the expected resulting consequences of sickness or ill health of one type or another.
I'm a big proponent of that theory as well.

[nc0gnet0]

I am going to have to respectfully disagree here. Hospital tanks are the absolute best place to treat a stressed and diseased fish. Josie, if moving your fish to a hospital tank is causing him more stress, then there is something amiss with your hospital tank. Low light and low traffic are a must for a good hospital tank, and if the fish is still a bit stressed, then throw in a tacky fake plant for it to hide behind.

Your assumption that one sick fish in a community tank means that all fish are contaminated is highly dependent on what is causing the illness. In the case of parasites, I would tend to agree, but if bacterial, its not neccesarily true. I don't beleive in medicating fish that aren't sick, as no one really knows the long term effects alot of these medications really have on them.


Sick fish are often times the target of increased agression of others, and this makes their recovery in a community tank that more difficult. I beleive the biggest reason that most discus do not recover is that the owner waits too long to begin treatment.

Rick

[yim11]

^ Words of wisdom IMO.

+1

[Chicago Discus]

I agree with your comment about dim lights, low traffic and hiding places but my point was before you start moving the Discus to a hospital tank that he's not use to with lower lights and by himself try to use fresh clean water and daily water changes first because what ever ailment is going on he will have a much better chance of recovery if he were less stressed by the uprooting. Im not saying that theres no place for a hospital tank I'm just saying that putting a Discus in one causes more stress on the fish by moving him away from his routine. If the Discus over time is not improving then transfer him to a hosiptal tank and take it to the next level....Josie

[Chicago Discus]

I think Discus die from misusing and over medicating more than worms and bacteria combined ...............JMO.............. Josie

[pcsb23]

I am going to have to respectfully disagree here. Hospital tanks are the absolute best place to treat a stressed and diseased fish. Josie, if moving your fish to a hospital tank is causing him more stress, then there is something amiss with your hospital tank. Low light and low traffic are a must for a good hospital tank, and if the fish is still a bit stressed, then throw in a tacky fake plant for it to hide behind.

Your assumption that one sick fish in a community tank means that all fish are contaminated is highly dependent on what is causing the illness. In the case of parasites, I would tend to agree, but if bacterial, its not neccesarily true. I don't beleive in medicating fish that aren't sick, as no one really knows the long term effects alot of these medications really have on them.


Sick fish are often times the target of increased agression of others, and this makes their recovery in a community tank that more difficult. I beleive the biggest reason that most discus do not recover is that the owner waits too long to begin treatment.

Rick
Agree with this ^^^


I think Discus die from misusing and over medicating more than worms and bacteria combined ...............JMO.............. Josie
and with this ^^^

[ExReefer]

This is a good thread.

I've always believed netting a sick fish and keeping him in isolation is stressful and a last resort.

With stressed discus, the first thing I notice is a reduced appetite. If my fish are not pounding their food, it's almost always a result of water quality. My first course of action is to bump up WC's, wipe down the tank, and clean my filters. This remedy works 99% of the time. The key is to really pay attention to feeding habits. The slightest reduciton in feeding aggression, and I know it's time to address the water quality.

However, there are times when I've missed the window to correct the water quality and the stressed/sick fish needs to be removed from the main tank. Again, this is a last resort for me as I believe that initially, the removal of the fish creates more stress, but eventually, the fish typically comes around in isolation.

Some of you might be thinking, why not just keep filters clean at all times and do daily WC's? Well, I would tell you that sometimes life gets in the way.

[DiscusLoverJeff]

Great thread but I am sure moving a sick fish has it's "pro's and con's" if you think about it. Yes, less medication in a hospital tank, but a sick fish as mentioned does not mean all fish are sick and you could be creating a bigger problem medicating an entire display tank.

On the other hand, the probabilty of other fish being sick is also a concern to med the whole tank.

I had a couple F1's dark, no appetite, no stressful breathing just hiding in a corner, I decided to move them to a QT tank using their water from the big tank and adding meds, the next day both died. Not sure the cause and effect here.

But all in all a very good post to learn from and it sure makes you think about the right decision to make. Just don't have regrets on your decision either way like I did. I regretted moving them, but a part of me said it was the right thing to do.

[Chicago Discus]

Great thread but I am sure moving a sick fish has it's "pro's and con's" if you think about it. Yes, less medication in a hospital tank, but a sick fish as mentioned does not mean all fish are sick and you could be creating a bigger problem medicating an entire display tank.

On the other hand, the probabilty of other fish being sick is also a concern to med the whole tank.

I had a couple F1's dark, no appetite, no stressful breathing just hiding in a corner, I decided to move them to a QT tank using their water from the big tank and adding meds, the next day both died. Not sure the cause and effect here.

But all in all a very good post to learn from and it sure makes you think about the right decision to make. Just don't have regrets on your decision either way like I did. I regretted moving them, but a part of me said it was the right thing to do.
well said Jeff, I'm just trying let people know that just because the fish doesn't look so hot don't be so quick to move him into a hospital tank because the stress of the move into a tank by themselves can add to their demise I just wanted to share my experience in the hope that it might help someone......Thanks Josie

[DiscusLoverJeff]

What was your outcome Josie?

How are the fish?

[Chicago Discus]

So far they are all healthy thank God........keeping my fingers, toes, arms and hands crossed its all a learning experience and I'm having a great time with these magnificant creatures...........Josie

[AngryBird]

At first I thought I should be replying to this tread as I dont have a lot of experience in treating sick discus. It was a good point that Josie brought up. I have done that a year back and didnt move the sick fish out of the tank however after a week other fishes got sick to. I was successful in treating them and they all got back to normal in a week. I really dont know if the fishes got better because of medication or because of 90% water change that I did every day.

Here is something interesting: I saw a hospital tank that someone that I know maintains in Boston and I first literally laughed when I saw the tank. Unlike tanks with most sides covered with some plain background to prevent excess light, he had pictures of discus fishes as background on three sides and when I asked that person why he has background with lot of discus pictures he explained that whenever he moves a fish to treat, he didnt want the fish to be stressed and felt that these pictures would make the fish feel better. I dont know whether it really helped but I felt what he did could have made a difference.

Different people do different things and if something works for you.. go for it..

[Chicago Discus]

At first I thought I should be replying to this tread as I dont have a lot of experience in treating sick discus. It was a good point that Josie brought up. I have done that a year back and didnt move the sick fish out of the tank however after a week other fishes got sick to. I was successful in treating them and they all got back to normal in a week. I really dont know if the fishes got better because of medication or because of 90% water change that I did every day.

Here is something interesting: I saw a hospital tank that someone that I know maintains in Boston and I first literally laughed when I saw the tank. Unlike tanks with most sides covered with some plain background to prevent excess light, he had pictures of discus fishes as background on three sides and when I asked that person why he has background with lot of discus pictures he explained that whenever he moves a fish to treat, he didnt want the fish to be stressed and felt that these pictures would make the fish feel better. I dont know whether it really helped but I felt what he did could have made a difference.

Different people do different things and if something works for you.. go for it..

Thats really interesting but I'm not sure they can see pictures never thought about it maybe someone that knows how well they can see can chime in.........I really hate backgrounds with pictures on them or fake rocks I just like solid light colors.......just my preference.....Josie

[Rummy]

I have heard several times that for treating koi, an extra fish is kept in the company of the ailing fish in order to decrease the stress levels associated with being alone. That would probably work for discus as well. But more experienced people may need to correct me on that statement.
I do agree with Josie. Sometimes, just prudently watching the fish and maintaining/improving proper animal husbandry is all it takes. Obviously, that cannot work across the board for every single fish.

[nc0gnet0]

Koi are a bit of an enigma, and I have witnessed some interesting behavior from them. On three seperate occasions in the past three years, I have had one of my koi jump out of the pond and laying on the grass in the dead of summer. Luckily each time I spotted them (after the fact), laying on the grass and near death. After I placed them back into the pond, some of the others from the group would swim along side the ailing koi, gently nudging it along to keep it swimming.

[Rummy]

Koi are a bit of an enigma, and I have witnessed some interesting behavior from them. On three seperate occasions in the past three years, I have had one of my koi jump out of the pond and laying on the grass in the dead of summer. Luckily each time I spotted them (after the fact), laying on the grass and near death. After I placed them back into the pond, some of the others from the group would swim along side the ailing koi, gently nudging it along to keep it swimming.

Wow! I didn't know they showed that behavior. Good to know.

[shoveltrash]

great discussion, thanks Josie.

This is a good thread.

I've always believed netting a sick fish and keeping him in isolation is stressful and a last resort.
+1



I think the trend in general in today's society is to throw drugs at a problem.......JMHO. but that's a bit o/t!

[Disgirl]

Koi are a bit of an enigma, and I have witnessed some interesting behavior from them. On three seperate occasions in the past three years, I have had one of my koi jump out of the pond and laying on the grass in the dead of summer. Luckily each time I spotted them (after the fact), laying on the grass and near death. After I placed them back into the pond, some of the others from the group would swim along side the ailing koi, gently nudging it along to keep it swimming.
I have had this exact experience with my koi!
Barb

[discgo]

It has been recommended to me to not isolate a sick discus in the hospital tank, but to always give him a "buddy." The best buddy being the lowest fish on the tank's pecking order.
Rod

[Chicago Discus]

It has been recommended to me to not isolate a sick discus in the hospital tank, but to always give him a "buddy." The best buddy being the lowest fish on the tank's pecking order.
Rod
I have definitely learned this the hard way moving fish to a hospital tank and pumping them with meds is extremely stressful and I have seen it time and time again on this Forum when people move their Discus from the main tank and start extreme medication in a hospital tank most of the fish don't make it. Taking a weakened Discus and putting him through all that is just asking for trouble. I think the buddy system is a very good idea.....Josie

[JenTN]

great discussion, thanks Josie.

+1



I think the trend in general in today's society is to throw drugs at a problem.......JMHO. but that's a bit o/t!

Agreed! Next thing we know, fish wont spawn & we'll be crushing up Viagra in their tanks!

[ExReefer]

Isolation is stressful. There is no question. I've done the isolation thing with massive daily WC's and seen fish bounce back. They even start eating again in isolation, but not aggressively. Within a day of moving the isolated fish back with the group, that same fish will pound their food. These fish hate being alone and thrive in large groups (with the exception of pairs).

I recently combined two groups of discus. My group went from 5 to 9 discus. The feedings in the large group are entirely different now. The fish that used to be timid are now attacking food. Just when I think some of them won't take another floating FDBW, they will race over to the worm just so the other fish can't have it. I can see why raising them in large groups is advantageous.

[strawberryblonde]

I've only had one experience with discus and a hospital tank, and it didn't end well for the discus, but that doesn't mean that it wouldn't work for others. I think I'm on the fence here. LOL

My discus had issues from the day he was plopped and dropped into my tank and died within 2 weeks. Since then I've become a HUGE proponent of clean fresh water to cure most ailments. My gorgeous guys now live in a 115g tank and I still change out 80% of their water every other day. (can't tell you how nervous it made me to reduce water changes to every other day and drop it to "only" one wc on those days!).

Recently had a big problem crop up in the tank. My spawning pair finally produced fry without my even noticing it. Sadly, the tiny female went into attack mode during the night in trying to defend the new babies and when I woke up in the morning the damage had been done... she was covered in bruises, had a huge gash on her forehead and 5 of my other discus looked equally bad. I still had no clue what was causing the aggression in the tank at that point and it wasn't till I sat and watched what was happening for an hour or so that I finally saw the itty bitty fry trying to attach to the father.

The fry were eaten, of course, but by the time it was over the stress on the mated pair, plus the bites, bruises and general injury causing mayhem had taken its toll on all the fish (ever seen a school cardinals literally hiding in corner on the bottom of the tank for 24 hours?)

My cure for all of them was water changes and low lighting. No one was eating, so I just tossed in a small amount of flake food for the cards and cories and ignored every other food for 3 days. Water changes were 80% every single day for a week, temps were 86 and nothing at all was added to the tank.

All my discus recovered, even the little female who was laying on her side gasping for the better part of the week. My marlboro still has some dark coloration on her head from a massive head banging on the side of the tank, but she's bright eyed and eating like a pig again.

So yep, I'm still on the fence as far as hospital tanks go. If I ever really need one, I'll use it, but only after I've done massive water changes and am really sure that the fish isn't recovering and needs medication.

[Chicago Discus]

I've only had one experience with discus and a hospital tank, and it didn't end well for the discus, but that doesn't mean that it wouldn't work for others. I think I'm on the fence here. LOL

My discus had issues from the day he was plopped and dropped into my tank and died within 2 weeks. Since then I've become a HUGE proponent of clean fresh water to cure most ailments. My gorgeous guys now live in a 115g tank and I still change out 80% of their water every other day. (can't tell you how nervous it made me to reduce water changes to every other day and drop it to "only" one wc on those days!).

Recently had a big problem crop up in the tank. My spawning pair finally produced fry without my even noticing it. Sadly, the tiny female went into attack mode during the night in trying to defend the new babies and when I woke up in the morning the damage had been done... she was covered in bruises, had a huge gash on her forehead and 5 of my other discus looked equally bad. I still had no clue what was causing the aggression in the tank at that point and it wasn't till I sat and watched what was happening for an hour or so that I finally saw the itty bitty fry trying to attach to the father.

The fry were eaten, of course, but by the time it was over the stress on the mated pair, plus the bites, bruises and general injury causing mayhem had taken its toll on all the fish (ever seen a school cardinals literally hiding in corner on the bottom of the tank for 24 hours?)

My cure for all of them was water changes and low lighting. No one was eating, so I just tossed in a small amount of flake food for the cards and cories and ignored every other food for 3 days. Water changes were 80% every single day for a week, temps were 86 and nothing at all was added to the tank.

All my discus recovered, even the little female who was laying on her side gasping for the better part of the week. My marlboro still has some dark coloration on her head from a massive head banging on the side of the tank, but she's bright eyed and eating like a pig again.

So yep, I'm still on the fence as far as hospital tanks go. If I ever really need one, I'll use it, but only after I've done massive water changes and am really sure that the fish isn't recovering and needs medication.

cool story thanks Toni Im of the rule that lots of clean water goes a long way :)

[gerrard00]

I think of water changes like exercise. You can try popping pills and powders, but there's no substitute for elbow grease. One of the good things about a hospital tank is that you can do large water changes so much more easily then in a display tank.

[Chicago Discus]

I think of water changes like exercise. You can try popping pills and powders, but there's no substitute for elbow grease. One of the good things about a hospital tank is that you can do large water changes so much more easily then in a display tank.

I totally agree but all my tanks get daily water changes so waters not the issue in my house, If their in a hospital tank I just use the hospital tank to add meds that I don't want to give everyone.............

[ZX10R]

I don't like moving fish or setting up a hospital tank but when you have one large tank and lots of fish in there it only makes sense. You always treat meds to the amount of water so for me that would be 140 gallons total. To treat that with meds for a extended time and put the other fish (plecos, tetras, and other discus) thru the stress of meds doesn't make sense to me. I would rather pull one fish and treat it if it dies then it dies but I only lost one fish not take the chance of something going wrong and loosing a entire tank of fish. Most of the time when I had sick fish I tried the WC thing nonstop then by the time I realize the fish isn't getting better and pull it the stress, meds, and from waiting to long to pull it do it in. I know meds should be a last choice but sometimes it is better to do it right away when the fish is still strong enough to handle the stress and meds then wait until it is weak and on its last leg.