Purigen and canister filters

[DiscusBR]

Hi all,

I finally got hold of Purigen for my 80g tank. I also got Seachem's "The bag", the recommended mesh bag to add Purigen to canister filters. I tried to find some information in the archives, but was unable to find specific answers. So please help me:

1. How much Purigen should I add to "The Bag" before putting it in my 2217 Eheim canister filter?
2. How exactly do I add "The bag" to my Eheim 2217 canister filter? Should I put it last at the top, so that water goes through it right before leaving the filter?
3. How exactly do you fit a smaller, retangular bag with Purigen to a canister filter that has a circular shape? Wouldn't water go around the bag and in this way fail to go through Purigen?

Thanks in advance

[nc0gnet0]

1. How much Purigen should I add to "The Bag" before putting it in my 2217 Eheim canister filter?

do not overfill it, it works best if it can move around within the bag itself



2. How exactly do I add "The bag" to my Eheim 2217 canister filter? Should I put it last at the top, so that water goes through it right before leaving the filter?

Yes


3. How exactly do you fit a smaller, retangular bag with Purigen to a canister filter that has a circular shape? Wouldn't water go around the bag and in this way fail to go through Purigen?

If you overfill it, it will do just that.

[DiscusBR]

do not overfill it, it works best if it can move around within the bag itself

Yes

If you overfill it, it will do just that.

Thanks. But how much exactly of Purigen should I add to the bag? Purigen comes in 250 mL jars. How much of that can I add to the bag to maximize effect while avoiding overfilling?

[nc0gnet0]

I can't answer that question in specifics as I have never used "the bag". Just allow room for the purigen to tumble around within the bag.

[DiscusBR]

Thanks. I have added a full jar with 250 mL of Purigen to the bag and put it in the canister filter. I still think, though, that water will go around the bag, since it has a smaller and rectangular shape when compared to the filter. I can't understand why they could not manufacture a bag that would fit a canister filter.

[alpine]

Why do you want to use Purigen ?

Roberto.

[DiscusBR]

Just to try it and see if it fulfills its promisse: "polished water to unparalleled clarity" :)

[joanstone]

I really like Purigen and have used it on and off for years. I didn't like the tint from a big piece of driftwood, after putting Purigen in a filter my water was crystal clear.

[discuspaul]

Hi Mauro,
My experience with Purigen is that it's an excellent product for clarifying/polishing water - Ive been using it regularly for several years, and my planted discus tank is almost always pretty much crystal clear.
I have 2 AC HOB 110's on my tank, and haven't used a canister for a long time, but I've found by checking around that I could get different-sized fine mesh bags from different sources, double them up to ensure the Purigen particles are well contained and don't seep out of the bagging, and more or less fit them to size in my filter compartments.
I'm quite sure you could do the same thing with nylon hose material to suit it fitting your canister compartment, at least to a reasonable degree (but again, double it up).
The purigen should be relatively loose in the bagging, as was already said, and no more than approx 1/2" thickness.
Hope this helps.
Regards,
Paul

[discuspaul]

P.S. - Mauro
I've had good luck containing Purigen in sheer Organza material bags that you can find at a dollar store, or crafts store. They come in several different sizes and shapes, with a tight pull string closure. (these bags are generally used in which to place gifts, souvenirs, etc. for new married couples, for example.)
You can usually also get fine mesh bags in different sizes from PetSmart stores for around $1.00 each, or 2 for $1.99 - don't know if you have PetSmart in Rio though.

I use Purigen in combination with double-layered filter floss
(replaced with new bi-weekly), along with pre-filter sponges on the filter intake tubes, for best results at water clarifying.

[mike046]

U can use nylon stockings

[discuspaul]

That's what I meant when I said "nylon hose material" - LOL

[DiscusBR]

Thanks joanstone, Paul and Mike. Paul, you gave some good alternatives to think about. I might try the lady legs' stuff :)

[alpine]

Just to try it and see if it fulfills its promisse: "polished water to unparalleled clarity"

Nothing polishes and gives clarity to water in a discus tank like proper water changes which are suppose to be done " very often" :)

Roberto.

[Chicago Discus]

Purigen is ok for display tanks but not breeder or grow outs. I have used Purigen in my display tanks with a media bag in a sump and it works very well but its useless with grow outs and breeder tanks. I just wanted to share that for new people with young discus.

[Darrell Ward]

"Water polishing" is pointless, as well as being rather expensive in discus tanks. Tannic acids are useful, and natural for South American fish. That being said, there really is no way to "overdo it", as long as water can flow between, and around the media, it's fine.

[discuspaul]

IME water clarifying and polishing is not at all pointless in planted discus tanks, and where wcs are not being done on a daily basis.
One needs simply to compare the effect and results when using Purigen, floss and pre-filters for several weeks, and then removing those clarifying agents and going without for a few more weeks to see the difference.

[joanstone]

http://www.seachem.com/Products/product_pages/Purigen.html
Purigen does more than "polish" water. If that's all it did, I wouldn't bother with it myself (it's pricey) except to ocassionally clear up some tannins that I just don't personally care for. I'm curious about why it would be useless in a grow out tank or breeder tank. That seems illogical (a tank with fish and waste is still a tank with fish and waste) unless you're stating that because it would be redundant due to the high number of water changes hopefully being performed. If that's the case, then I would agree that it's overkill and not necessary, but not really useless.

[Mep1127]

Well i use purigen now for my tank and it does keep my water really clear. I mostly use it as a " safety net " for my tanks nitrite and ammonia levels etc. aside the immense clarity it has done a fair job and keeping those levels in check. It substitutes carbon which is bad for a discus tank and is rechargeable. I dont see why not to use purigen. Cleaned out my filter yesterday and even with all the water changes I do im surprised how much the purigen has absorbed.

[discuspaul]

Well, in a growout or otherwise bare-bottom tank where large daily wcs are being done, and detritus, feces, and uneaten food are being removed with daily vacs, the water is generally kept very clear and clean, so the clarifying and polishing effect of Purigen would be quite limited.
But completely useless - I don't think so.

And Purigen, @ around $25. or so for a 250 ml bottle, which can be re-generated up to around 15 times and still retain some effectiveness - good for a year's usage - expensive ?
Not in my book.

[joanstone]

Good point on the regeneration, I'd forgotten about that benefit. IMO, Purigen and polyfilters are two products that I find effective and have used consistently for years and like to keep on hand.

[juanmar5]

Purigen is ok for display tanks but not breeder or grow outs. I have used Purigen in my display tanks with a media bag in a sump and it works very well but its useless with grow outs and breeder tanks. I just wanted to share that for new people with young discus.

ChicagoDiscus, could you elaborate on the use of Purigen?

[HeidinJohn]

Bump, I'm curious too ChicagoDiscus's opinion.

[Andrew157]

I am also curious what ChicagoDiscus has to say about purigen. I always thought it would be perfect for grow outs!

[drondy]

I use it, I love it!!!

[afriend]

Under the right circumstances, the use of Purigen can achieve rather amazing results. In my opinion, it is best suited for a display tank that contains lots of decorative items and adult discus. Here's what Purigen has done for my 100g display tank containing 10 adult discus:

1) Sparkling crystal clear water.

2) Absolute zero algae and almost no slime.

3) No need to siphon feces because it "dissolves" and is removed from the tank automatically by the filtration system and water exchange.

Thats the good news. The bad news is that to achieve these results it requires much more than just the use of Purigen. Here's how it's done:

To achieve the first objective (crystal clear water) it takes water exchange and a 100ml bag of Purigen. Just place the bag in the filtration system where there is good water motion. When I first tried this I considered my water very clean, but there was a marked improvement. The fish seemed to be "floating in air." If this is all you want from the Purigen, it will do a good job providing it is removed and regenerated when necessary.

The second objective (zero algae) is somewhat more involved to achieve. First, test your water SOURCE for phosphate and nitrate, these must be zero in order for this to work properly. You will not need the 100ml bag of Purigen, but rather a reactor of some sort that will allow water to flow freely around the Purigen beads. Then clean the tank of any existing algae. Lastly, there must be moderate levels of water exchange. When the system is working properly, nitrate in the tank will be reduced to zero (not 5ppm but all the way to zero as measured by an API nitrate test kit). It may require a few days for the nitrate to be eliminated as the water exchanges flush out the remaining nitrate. By zero algae, I mean that there will be no algae even if the lights are always on. My tank has some items in it that have been there for over a year with out cleaning and there is absolutely no algae on them. The decorative items will still need to be removed and washed occasionally during the monthly cleanup, but they they will not smell bad.

The third objective (automatic feces removal) is achieved by adding some additional requirements to those in the above paragraph: There must be a large amount of water circulation in the tank (especially at the bottom of the tank), and tank water TDS must be in the medium or soft range. Also, its important that the mechanical filter (or sump) have quite a large area to collect the non-organic portion of the feces. A very small portion of the feces (perhaps 5%) will remain in the tank. I suspect that this is the portion of the feces that is made up of heavy solids. Fresh feces requires about 3 to 4 hours to "dissolve". Also, I highly recommend that a daily water exchange of about 30% or more be maintained.

I know that all of this may sound too good to be true, but I assure you that it works exactly as I have stated. The end result of all of this is that I have a display tank that is pristine clean and because my system also includes an automated water exchange, I have no daily tank maintenance for an entire month. An automated water exchange is nice, but is not required to achieve the results.

All of this is explained in much greater detail in the SD forum. Go to the main menu and click on "Filtration, Pump, and Plumbing" At the top section unter "Stickies" I have a four part presentation that contains pictures, diagrams, parts list, and videos of my tank and the complete system.