55 gal. Brand new to Discus, could use any advice!

[janky]

Hey everybody... I just found this forum and I'm pretty excited, as some of the others haven't been too knowledgeable or straight forward about discus specifically.

We have a 55 gal very lightly planted with some driftwood and a rock/gravel substrate. It completed cycling (amm 0 nitrite 0 nitrate 0) and we currently have a small school of x-ray tetra (7), 1 butterfly pleco, and 3 ghost shrimp. The filter we got is the one that came with it (not sure brand) and I have 1 300watt heater and a backup. I use seachem flourish tabs for the plants and flora sun max plant growth bulbs (the beginner petsmart ones).
I also did a DIY CO2 bottle for the plants, but it will be done and gone long before any discus are put in to the tank.


My girlfriend and I have been obsessed with discuss and are looking to put them into this tank. We are both college students though, so we don't have a lot of money to throw around and we want to do it right (not only to ensure our expensive fish live, but to ensure they're happy and healthy! :D)

I don't see a RO/DI unit as being feasible right now ($200+? Not likely...) and to be honest when I was reading over them it seems pretty confusing to set up. I don't mind storing some water overnight or for a day or two to be conditioned (we have been using "startsafe" or aqueon water conditioner), but I'm not super confident about RO/DI right now.

Also, I feel like 6-10 discus at full growth will be very cramped and unhappy in a 55 gal. We initially planned to purchase only 4. And we may have to either save up and wait to get them all at once, or buy two soon and two later.


If any experts could give me advice or recommendations I would love to hear it! Especially on the RO/DI ordeal and what we can do to ensure good water quality for our fish.

Thanks in advance, now I'm gunna get back to reading up and trying to answer my own questions!! :D

[Skip]

http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showthread.php?27180-Beginners-Information-Index

http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showthread.php?86009-Beginner-s-Guide-to-Getting-Started-with-Discus

[janky]

Thank you. I just finished the one, and am going through the extensive list of articles on the other :)

Is it necessary to always use the ro/di water in wc's? Seems like I could do treated (or aged) tap and be ok?

[strawberryblonde]

Hiyas!

Unless you have a real problem within your tap water there's no need to go RO/DI. Discus do very well on straight tap even if the pH is quite high. They just hate chlorine and nitrates. If your tap has chlorine you'll need to dechlorinate it, which it seems like you are already doing. I prefer using Seachem Safe (powered form) or Seachem Prime (liquid form) because discus require a lot more water changes than most fish and the other brands of dechlor can be extremely pricey. You can buy Prime or Safe in huge containers and you only use a small amount for each water change.

Now about the 55g. No way you'll ever fit more than 5 adult discus in that baby. And 5 is a nice number, so you lucked out! =)

Four isn't nearly as good. Discus are cichlids and are naturally more aggressive than other fish. Not nearly as bad as the African cichlids, but they still insist on establishing a pecking order. One will boss the others around and if there aren't enough of them in the tank to spread out the aggression one will end up getting very badly bullied. Five discus is the correct number.

I'm not sure about your pleco. I don't own any, so I haven't really kept up with which pleco's are ok with discus and which ones aren't ok (some will attach to the sides of discus and suck the slime off of them). So you'll want to research that here on the forums to be sure that they'll live nicely together.

You'll probably want to purchase a small group of corydora catfish. I LOVE the Sterbai cories. They're adorable, stay small and are excellent bottom cleaner who will eat anything they can get their cute little mouths around. The Sterbai's are natural inhabitants of Discus waters in the Amazon so they can handle the higher temps.

Water...the biggest thing you need to know when keeping discus is that they love, love, love clean water and lots of it. I use mine straight from the tap, not aged (pH doesn't shift much at all when my water sits in an aerated bucket for 48 hours) so by using a python system for water changes it all goes quickly and easily. I change water every single day when my discus are sub-adults. You'll probably be buying sub-adults since they are less expensive, right?

Just plan on feeding a variety of hearty, meaty foods several times a day and do a large wc (over 60%) after the last feeding at night.

Foods are the second most important part of raising healthy discus. You can feed discus flakes, discus pellets, frozen beefheart, Freeze Dried Blackworms, etc.

The temp of the water in your tank should be 82-86. Different people here like different temps within those ranges. It's what you feel comfortable with and what temp your discus group thrives best in. I keep mine around 83.

Hmmm, what else do you need to know to be successful at raising and keeping healthy discus. WATER! Lots and lots of clean water! LOL

On a side note, plants can be tricky if you are raising young discus, get easier with sub-adults (3.5" - 4"), and are much much more doable with adult discus. Because of the constant water changes and the need to vacuum heavily when they're young the plants end up taking a beating. Gravel substrate is ok if the discus are over 3.5", but good pool filter sand is pretty and is much easier to keep clean since the food and poop don't sink into the cracks. Pool filter sand is also cheap. =)

Driftwood is a GREAT option for discus tanks. Driftwood is part of their natural habitat and they love it. It also looks great IMO.

There ya go, that's all I can think of for now. Water, good food and more water and you'll do fine.

[SeaDragon]

I totally get where your coming from with the little money to throw around. I'm in HS with a couple Discus tanks and it gets tight. Discus make it worth it though as you will find!
I would recommend getting a good filter (canisters are nice).
Some Prime for conditioning (little goes a long way! So it's been a good buy.).
Then don't skimp on heaters, I've gone through three brands so fair (Fluval, Finnex, and Cascade) that just haven't cut it to keep it at discus temp, or even 78F at times. For the number of discus I'd go with 5 adults, one odd numbers look nice, and two that's 10+gal for each fish to grow nicely.
Finally, never skip water changes! With a planted tank and the added supplements your going to have a up hill battle. So do plenty of water changes.
Plus welcome to the forum! Glad to have you aboard


Sent from my Styrofoam fish box fort using Tapatalk

[Skip]

tap water is just fine

[peglegderek]

i use PO water for my tank but my city water is super hard and has every polutent in the book i dont even drink the stuff!!! RO units arnt that hard to figure out when i first got mine i was kinda comfused but i figured it out very quickly!!!

[redisculous]

hey man,im a discus keeping newbie my self.just found the forum last night as a matter of fact.just wanted to say thankyou as you asked a lot of the questions i was curious about.im setting up my first discus tank.i have a 55gallon with on xlarge jag cichlid(southamerican).hes about a foot long and mean as a suma*****.

i also have a 35gallon.planted with gravel and 1 adult ram,juv pleco and,adult krebensi(dwarf cichlid).i was told these are all compatible tank mates for my new friends.but after reading here am wondering if i wouldnt be better off converting the 55 gallon.I want a breeding pair of an easy to raise variety.i like the idea of seeing them care for their babies a lot.plus we have kids who would also appreciate them and the show.i was thinking of going with 6 3.5 inch of the same variety.hoping they pair off and move the rest to a new tank when the time comes with water out of the original tank....

or i could always buy a breeding pair but they tent to be pricey.

so our goals are much different but the same lol.wish you and your girl the best in your new hobby.
see you around the forum man.

[redisculous]

oh yeah i use reverse osmosis for one of my other hobbies again to avoid high ppms and chlorine/chloramine.
its not hard to set up at all and you can get one (same as mine)on ebay for 115$ and it will last around 12 months with out any filter changes depending on your local water conditions.you just need a female adapter to screw into either your kitchen sink,or garden hose.there is even another way if your handy.you can tap into your pipe with a thing that you just tighten until it opens the pipe and makes a seal.

you may not need on like everyone else is saying but if in the future you go that route for saltwater or discus keeping know its an easy system to use and install.

[Teshi]

Welcome to the forum Janky. Glad to see you found us here. This forum is great for advice on discus. They've already helped me tons.

I made the mistake of only getting 3 fish to start with and will be adding 2 later. But by doing this I've learned that I now need to set up a QT for the 2 new ones I'll be adding in the future. If you can't afford to do this get all 5 fish right away if you can. I really wish I would have done that now. Hind sight.

[Orange Crush]

BN plecos are okay all others are risky as they may try to attatch to your discus.
Discus can adapt to a variety of water conditions (hardness, pH etc.) as long as it is consistant, pH and TDS fluctuations are hard on them.
Unless they are going into a tank with no other fish they need to be in a QT tank for 6-8 weeks so it is best to buy all of the discus at once from one source (I highly recommend one of the sponsers here on the forum, I have read about too many newbies getting from LFS only to learn they spent more and got crappy fish; not saying all discus from LFS are bad but it is hard to know what to look for when you are starting out and LFS jack up the price so you would most likely pay more for the same quality if they are good discus anyways).
Discus need 10 gal each, if you want as many as 6-10 find a used tank on this forum, Craigslist, etc. so you can spend your money on good fish.
Sub-adults/adults are what you want in a planted tank but they cost more. Maybe get a large used tank, go BB and buy younger discus. BB is much more cheap since you don't have to buy anything except the bare necessaties. Young discus are more of a challenge because they need to be fed a lot more often, get water changes at least once per day, and are much more sensitive to water quality.
If you do a new tank for them I highly recommend doing a fishless cycle, discus are very sensitive to ammonia etc.
Lately, I have been reading a lot of people saying that 5 discus is okay, I personally have no experience to say it is not but I have attatched a thread I started before I got my discus and it convinced me to get 6 not 5.
http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showthread.php?92844-of-discus-in-75-gal
I hope none of this has scared you away from wanting them, not my intent since I think they are great fish to have but, I think being an informed consumer can help avoid a lot of unneeded expense and PITA experiences. :)

[Darrell Ward]

My advice? Remove the gravel, and throw away the plants. Buy a group of 6 juvi discus, feed them 3 times a day, change 50% water daily, and have fun. A 55 gal. is a small tank for discus, but it can be done if you keep up the water changes.

[janky]

Hiyas!

Unless you have a real problem within your tap water there's no need to go RO/DI. Discus do very well on straight tap even if the pH is quite high. They just hate chlorine and nitrates. If your tap has chlorine you'll need to dechlorinate it, which it seems like you are already doing. I prefer using Seachem Safe (powered form) or Seachem Prime (liquid form) because discus require a lot more water changes than most fish and the other brands of dechlor can be extremely pricey. You can buy Prime or Safe in huge containers and you only use a small amount for each water change.

Now about the 55g. No way you'll ever fit more than 5 adult discus in that baby. And 5 is a nice number, so you lucked out! =)

Four isn't nearly as good. Discus are cichlids and are naturally more aggressive than other fish. Not nearly as bad as the African cichlids, but they still insist on establishing a pecking order. One will boss the others around and if there aren't enough of them in the tank to spread out the aggression one will end up getting very badly bullied. Five discus is the correct number.

I'm not sure about your pleco. I don't own any, so I haven't really kept up with which pleco's are ok with discus and which ones aren't ok (some will attach to the sides of discus and suck the slime off of them). So you'll want to research that here on the forums to be sure that they'll live nicely together.

You'll probably want to purchase a small group of corydora catfish. I LOVE the Sterbai cories. They're adorable, stay small and are excellent bottom cleaner who will eat anything they can get their cute little mouths around. The Sterbai's are natural inhabitants of Discus waters in the Amazon so they can handle the higher temps.

Water...the biggest thing you need to know when keeping discus is that they love, love, love clean water and lots of it. I use mine straight from the tap, not aged (pH doesn't shift much at all when my water sits in an aerated bucket for 48 hours) so by using a python system for water changes it all goes quickly and easily. I change water every single day when my discus are sub-adults. You'll probably be buying sub-adults since they are less expensive, right?

Just plan on feeding a variety of hearty, meaty foods several times a day and do a large wc (over 60%) after the last feeding at night.

Foods are the second most important part of raising healthy discus. You can feed discus flakes, discus pellets, frozen beefheart, Freeze Dried Blackworms, etc.

The temp of the water in your tank should be 82-86. Different people here like different temps within those ranges. It's what you feel comfortable with and what temp your discus group thrives best in. I keep mine around 83.

Hmmm, what else do you need to know to be successful at raising and keeping healthy discus. WATER! Lots and lots of clean water! LOL

On a side note, plants can be tricky if you are raising young discus, get easier with sub-adults (3.5" - 4"), and are much much more doable with adult discus. Because of the constant water changes and the need to vacuum heavily when they're young the plants end up taking a beating. Gravel substrate is ok if the discus are over 3.5", but good pool filter sand is pretty and is much easier to keep clean since the food and poop don't sink into the cracks. Pool filter sand is also cheap. =)

Driftwood is a GREAT option for discus tanks. Driftwood is part of their natural habitat and they love it. It also looks great IMO.

There ya go, that's all I can think of for now. Water, good food and more water and you'll do fine.

Wow, thanks for all the info!
I like the raphael cats, but the lfs said they wouldn't much care for the high temp or pH.
Also, my tap water doesn't fluctuate in pH. I tested it (24 hours aerated - same exact results) recently. So I guess that means I'm ok to just dechlorinate it and keep up on the WCs.


I totally get where your coming from with the little money to throw around. I'm in HS with a couple Discus tanks and it gets tight. Discus make it worth it though as you will find!
I would recommend getting a good filter (canisters are nice).
Some Prime for conditioning (little goes a long way! So it's been a good buy.).
Then don't skimp on heaters, I've gone through three brands so fair (Fluval, Finnex, and Cascade) that just haven't cut it to keep it at discus temp, or even 78F at times. For the number of discus I'd go with 5 adults, one odd numbers look nice, and two that's 10+gal for each fish to grow nicely.
Finally, never skip water changes! With a planted tank and the added supplements your going to have a up hill battle. So do plenty of water changes.
Plus welcome to the forum! Glad to have you aboard


Sent from my Styrofoam fish box fort using Tapatalk

Thanks!! Sounds great! Yeah, I've heard a lot of good things about prime. It may be in my near future :)


oh yeah i use reverse osmosis for one of my other hobbies again to avoid high ppms and chlorine/chloramine.
its not hard to set up at all and you can get one (same as mine)on ebay for 115$ and it will last around 12 months with out any filter changes depending on your local water conditions.you just need a female adapter to screw into either your kitchen sink,or garden hose.there is even another way if your handy.you can tap into your pipe with a thing that you just tighten until it opens the pipe and makes a seal.

you may not need on like everyone else is saying but if in the future you go that route for saltwater or discus keeping know its an easy system to use and install.

Thanks for all the info man. I have a redirect thing (its like a DIY python) that I can use for water changes, but I haven't set up the tubing yet. If I set up an RO Filter I wonder if I'll have to do some "custom fabricating" to get it to work lol.
That, or go back to the 5 gal bucket manual changes


BN plecos are okay all others are risky as they may try to attatch to your discus.
Discus can adapt to a variety of water conditions (hardness, pH etc.) as long as it is consistant, pH and TDS fluctuations are hard on them.
Unless they are going into a tank with no other fish they need to be in a QT tank for 6-8 weeks so it is best to buy all of the discus at once from one source (I highly recommend one of the sponsers here on the forum, I have read about too many newbies getting from LFS only to learn they spent more and got crappy fish; not saying all discus from LFS are bad but it is hard to know what to look for when you are starting out and LFS jack up the price so you would most likely pay more for the same quality if they are good discus anyways).
Discus need 10 gal each, if you want as many as 6-10 find a used tank on this forum, Craigslist, etc. so you can spend your money on good fish.
Sub-adults/adults are what you want in a planted tank but they cost more. Maybe get a large used tank, go BB and buy younger discus. BB is much more cheap since you don't have to buy anything except the bare necessaties. Young discus are more of a challenge because they need to be fed a lot more often, get water changes at least once per day, and are much more sensitive to water quality.
If you do a new tank for them I highly recommend doing a fishless cycle, discus are very sensitive to ammonia etc.
Lately, I have been reading a lot of people saying that 5 discus is okay, I personally have no experience to say it is not but I have attatched a thread I started before I got my discus and it convinced me to get 6 not 5.

I hope none of this has scared you away from wanting them, not my intent since I think they are great fish to have but, I think being an informed consumer can help avoid a lot of unneeded expense and PITA experiences. :)

Thank you for the expert advice. The pleco part scares me a little. I have a butterfly and just ordered a gold nugget :(
Yeah, I did find a local breeder in the Seattle area. I found him through google, but I haven't even checked here yet. I will look into that further

I would definitely love to have a bigger tank and do more discus, but I'm in an apartment so there are spatial/load bearing concerns towards anything over a 55. Plus I can't bring myself to get rid of the gravel, tank, plants, etc that I've already purchased. I'd feel like I just pissed away tons of cash lol

[dprais1]

I have had discus for about two weeks. With all the water changes I quickly discovered that gravel is an evil evil enemy. Sand has worked out fine, I think the less the better in the tank. Keeping discus is about the discus after all. I keep my driftwood vertical to cut down on 'dead spots' (you know what I mean when you lift up a piece of wood or rock that has sat on the bottom of the tank for a while and all that crap starts flying around in the water)

Prime is what I started using to treat my h2o and it saves me a ton of money.

good luck to you (and me)

[Orange Crush]

Yeah, I did find a local breeder in the Seattle area. I found him through google, but I haven't even checked here yet. I will look into that further
I live in the Seattle area, who did you find?


I would definitely love to have a bigger tank and do more discus, but I'm in an apartment so there are spatial/load bearing concerns towards anything over a 55. Plus I can't bring myself to get rid of the gravel, tank, plants, etc that I've already purchased. I'd feel like I just pissed away tons of cash lol
Keep the 55 for your plants, plecos, etc. and get a bigger tank for the discus you want but, put it in a different area. Think about how much some of the bigger furniture you have weighs. Just put it on a wt. bering wall and it should be fine. Happy, healthy discus and no wasting of the stuff you already have.

[dprais1]

One more thing that I learned....get a good thermometer. I had my tank at about 76 because my heater wasn't calibrated correctly. I lost one fish this way and i have one that is still recovering.
It sounds like a no-brainer, and it is. I just never got one .

[janky]

I live in the Seattle area, who did you find?


Keep the 55 for your plants, plecos, etc. and get a bigger tank for the discus you want but, put it in a different area. Think about how much some of the bigger furniture you have weighs. Just put it on a wt. bering wall and it should be fine. Happy, healthy discus and no wasting of the stuff you already have.

it was "Mac's" discus breeder. I went to King discus in seattle as well, but I wasn't thrilled (mostly because of pricing). Have you heard anything about mac's?
I hate to ignore advice from people smarter and more experienced than me, but I absolutely can not get a bigger tank right now - at least not without selling my old one, along with the stand, and then finding a new one, paying more and buying a bigger stand. We are completely maxed out on space here in the apt :(
I would love to, and when we move to a bigger place I definitely will... but for now, the 55 is all we can do.

If anything, I will consider other fish instead of discus... but me and the girlfriend have been pretty set on them, so that'd be a difficult choice as well. (albeit, better than scrapping my whole setup and starting over).

Are there any breeders in the area you could recommend? Or do you think maybe I should pass on trying to keep discus for now?
I'm willing to scoop out most (almost all?) of the gravel, but I'll need to leave some for the plants. I'm also meticulous about water changes on this tank and our little 10 gal bedroom tank. Once a day, and if something is off (water discoloration, test levels, etc) then more as needed.




One more thing that I learned....get a good thermometer. I had my tank at about 76 because my heater wasn't calibrated correctly. I lost one fish this way and i have one that is still recovering.
It sounds like a no-brainer, and it is. I just never got one .

Thank you! I have a heater that works like a champ, and a back up just in case. I have two thermometers on opposing ends of the tank :)

[strawberryblonde]

If the 55 is all you can handle for now, then plan to stick with just 5 discus plus the cory cats for clean up and a little entertainment. (they are SO cute!)

A bigger tank is really nice, but 55 will work just fine. I actually purchased 5 4" discus for my 54g with no plans to expand. (got super lucky with my 115g on craigslist or I'd still be in the 54)

My reasons for choosing to spend a little more for the 4" sub-adults were because I had gravel and a few plants, as well as the odd design of the tank which made cleaning a bit more difficult. 4" discus are a lot more forgiving than the smaller juvies and sub-adults.

They are more expensive, but on the plus side, you don't have as many worries about deaths! They don't eat as often, you can get away with one huge wc per day and a good scrubbing of the gravel at each wc. I also do what I call Sunday Super Scrubs. I do it on ALL of my tanks regardless of the size.

I prep in the morning, get out all my cleaning goodies, pull out the driftwood and plants (my plants are in flower pots), then scrub down the sides really well, drain out half the water to remove most of the nasties that I stirred up, refill it and then start vacuuming the bottom while I drain out another 75%. While that's draining I scrub the driftwood, clean the filters and then put everything back in. Refill with water and voila, a pristine tank! I got in the habit of doing it that way because I have high phosphates in my tap water and brown algae grows like weeds...ick..ugly. By doing the Sunday Scrub and then keeping up with my daily WC's of 60% with normal substrate cleaning I can keep the tank looking great and no ugly algae.

I'm pretty sure you can handle things in your tank so long as you keep up the water changes and buy larger discus instead of babies.

[janky]

If the 55 is all you can handle for now, then plan to stick with just 5 discus plus the cory cats for clean up and a little entertainment. (they are SO cute!)

A bigger tank is really nice, but 55 will work just fine. I actually purchased 5 4" discus for my 54g with no plans to expand. (got super lucky with my 115g on craigslist or I'd still be in the 54)

My reasons for choosing to spend a little more for the 4" sub-adults were because I had gravel and a few plants, as well as the odd design of the tank which made cleaning a bit more difficult. 4" discus are a lot more forgiving than the smaller juvies and sub-adults.

They are more expensive, but on the plus side, you don't have as many worries about deaths! They don't eat as often, you can get away with one huge wc per day and a good scrubbing of the gravel at each wc. I also do what I call Sunday Super Scrubs. I do it on ALL of my tanks regardless of the size.

I prep in the morning, get out all my cleaning goodies, pull out the driftwood and plants (my plants are in flower pots), then scrub down the sides really well, drain out half the water to remove most of the nasties that I stirred up, refill it and then start vacuuming the bottom while I drain out another 75%. While that's draining I scrub the driftwood, clean the filters and then put everything back in. Refill with water and voila, a pristine tank! I got in the habit of doing it that way because I have high phosphates in my tap water and brown algae grows like weeds...ick..ugly. By doing the Sunday Scrub and then keeping up with my daily WC's of 60% with normal substrate cleaning I can keep the tank looking great and no ugly algae.

I'm pretty sure you can handle things in your tank so long as you keep up the water changes and buy larger discus instead of babies.

Yeah. Sounds good... I understand it will be some work. Although, i've never been a fan of corys, as much as I hate to say that. I love the plecos lol :D
Is there a huge difference between the two as far as algae consumption is concerned? I'd love to just have the 2 plecos... but I'm not terribly against adding a cory or two if it'd make a substantial difference...
I just worry about bioload and over-stocking at that point. Especially with a school of 10 tetras and 5 discus!!

[Orange Crush]

If you cannot get a bigger tank (I understand the space issue, I would love to have more tanks, lol) then get 5 discus but you will need to get rid of the subtrate, plants and plecos since they are not BNP and the gold nugget will get between 6-14". You are just not gonna have the room for a school of cories (they need to be in shoals of 5 or more) and they are not really algae eaters, pleco are but yours are not compatable with discus. The substrate and plants mean you have probably more like 45-50 gal of water in your tank not 55 gal.
What kind of tetras are they? If you get rid of everything else in the tank you could have room for them with the discus.
It sounds like you are going to have to make a tough decision between what you have and what you want because the two are just not compatable. I have discus in a BB tank by themselves and they are a bunch of picky butt drama queens that stress easily. You can do what you want but it will be difficult to have healthy discus in the set up you have.
About Mac's, he is not a breeder, read through this old thread of mine that I started when I was looking for discus around Seattle, it will help.

http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showthread.php?92460-Where-to-get-quality-discus

[Orange Crush]

Btw I got my discus from Kenny and I have no regrets at all. :D

[janky]

Thanks for the info. I can do a bit of an overhaul and get the gravel out. The plants I have are anubias and cryptos so they're really small, I can't imagine them displacing that much water - if anything the rock structure and driftwood I have would be the majority of the displacement. I only have the butterfly pleco now, and we were going to order the gold nugget... maybe I will have to cancel that idea. I could probably find a good home for my pleco, but I like that lil guy :(
The tetra are x-ray tetra so, they're fairly small - I'd say my biggest one is pushing 2 inches.

Thank you for the link. I'll do some research

[strawberryblonde]

Ok, so don't order the gold nugget, he's gonna be a discus pest for sure. Have you thought about keeping the anubias by planting it on the driftwood? It works quite well! You can also put the crypts into flower pots and grow them in the tank that way.

My other solution for a huge bunch of crypts that I was given along with my craigslist tank was to cut the feet off of pantyhose, fill them with a mix of gravel and sand, add a root tab and then plant the crypts in those. I used a rubberband to close the top of the "squishy plant pot" and then placed them in crevices and divots in my driftwood. It worked really well and kept my crypts alive and healthy until I could find another tank for them to call home. I miss those crypts. LOL

So then, if it was me the rocks would be out pronto. They end up slimy, hide food under and around them and displace water volume. Then I'd scour the Planted Tank thread here on Simply Discus to see some pics of how other people decorated their tanks with plants in pots and with driftwood.

After that I'd do a little rescape on my tank, say bye-bye to the goldfish and hello to discus. =)

Well dang it, forgot to answer the question about Cory's! They're not algae eaters per se. They do a FABULOUS job of cleaning the substrate. Any stray bit of food....they find it! You could easily keep a small school of 5-7 in your tank. Remember though that not all Cory's can handle the heat. I know for sure that Sterbai's work. Not sure about any others cause I just love the Sterbai look.

[janky]

I'm thinking I may just consider a different stock. My second choice was angels/gourami/and rams. That may be a lot more feasible.

TBH, in a best case scenario, the most I'd be willing to do is not order the gold nugget, keep the butterfly, scoop out the majority of my gravel, and leave a thin layer of it for the plants to grow.
Even then, that is going to be a LOT of work, especially with some light living stock already in the tank!

If that sort of set up would not work for 5 discus, I will probably just go with my "2nd choice" stock instead. It's frustrating... I hear so many mixed opinions. Of course, the lfs, amateurs, and "breeders" will tell me I can get like 10 of them in there with gravel no problem... but when I discuss it with people who are experienced and actually keep them regularly, I hear that I'd basically have to scrap my whole set up and start over :(

I'm very confused.

[Orange Crush]

LFS and breeders want your business and not all of them are honest/knowledgable, they don't mind you having to buy more because you killed your first batch from listening to their BS. Not all are like that but, that is why I like most of the sponsers on SD.
Since your butterfly will only get 5-6" he might be less likely to attatch to discus but I have never had one so don't quote me on it. I would not add cories since you already have the pleco and tetras. Personally I prefer to be on the safe side since I paid almost $500 for my 6 discus that were 4-5". BTW have you looked at the prices for good quality discus in the size/strain you want? That might help you decide what to do. lol
I had gravel in my 75 gal but then removed it all and put the plants in pots with the gravel. It looks like it takes up a lot of room because the terra cotta pots are 4-5" tall but I used only about 10-15% of the gravel that was in the tank. You would be surprised how much room the gravel uses in a tank. Also with the plants in pots the tank is much easier to clean. I will be putting my discus in this tank soon.

[janky]

Totally agree on LFS/Certain breeders. For me, cost is an issue. I'm not at a point in life where I can spend 5-600 on fish. I like the look of discus overall, regardless of breed - so that opens my options! I would LOVE to have a pigeon blood, turk, red melon, or one of the all white albino ones, but not at $80-$120 per fish when I need 5 of them (At least!)
This limits me to juvies or lfs and basic marlboro or blue diamond strains mostly (around $40-$50 each). I don't have too much issue with lfs so long as I know what *I'M* doing and don't let them sway me into the BS lol... also, this ensures I'm not getting hit with another $30-40 in shipping. I know, I know.. I'm being cheap!
I saw that Kenny had a package deal on altum (sp?) that was 6 for $210 shipped. They seem like a smaller strain too, which would be perfect for my setup! Although I'd want to ask him about 5, as I'd be out of space with 6 - and I'd prefer to have at least 2-3 different ones instead of all the same.


I can shovel out ALMOST all of my gravel, but I will still leave some around the corners and a real, REAL thin baser layer as my plants are small (anubias and crypto). If the plants struggle I have no problem moving them, or putting the struggling ones in our 10 gal (limited space).
I'm not huge on cory's, although I do appreciate strawberry's suggestion and it seems practical. I'd much rather keep plecos, as they're my favorite fish next to the discus/angels! :D If I can only have one, so be it.

I think I'll attempt cleaning out my substrate when I get home and see how it goes. Maybe I can put it on CL for like $10 since I have another bucket of unused blue gravel in addition to the stuff I'm using in my tank.


Here's a picture of my setup (although it's a crappy one on an old 3.0 mp cell phone cam...)

[janky]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v648/jankyjay/0313120851.jpg

Needed 10 posts, lol...

[Orange Crush]

Anubas grow well attatched to wood, no need for gravel.

You will pay more for discus at a LFS and they will not be as good. Almost all LFS cannot keep up the water quality/feeding sched that discus need and they buy from breeders and mark up the price.
In the Seattle area King's and Mac's are the only stores that I know of that sell discus.
I know shipping costs a lot but it is prob about the same amount that a LFS marks up their cost of discus.
I buy almost everything from The Fish Store because LFS need our business but I would never buy I discus from one.
Lately I have been reading about a lot of newbies buying what they thought were good deals for discus at LFS but then they post pictures and they look stunted, thin, poorly shapped, peppered. Next they are posting in the disease section.
I am really not trying to stop you from getting discus, I want you to have discus and be successful. At least you are smart enough/care enough to do your research and be open minded to what people have to say so, I have no doubt that you will be successful when you get them. :)
I bought my discus from Kenny and I could not be more happy with them!!!

[janky]

Yeah, I appreciate your help! I did notice almost all of the discus at King's were heavily peppered along the face/nose. I don't know what that really is or means... is it a sickness? Some of their fish looked... "unhealthy" to say the least.

I'm actually in the Tacoma area, and WildSide has a few in, along with blue sierra in renton or midway in kent (fish looked sick) - but again they're really limited to the basic blue diamond and marlboros. I've never seen a heckel, turk, checker, pigeon, etc outside of when I went to Kings, and those were almost all peppered.

I'll probably check out Mac's, and if nothing seems legit I will be contacting Kenny this month or next.
I've been working a little extra this month, and picking up hours at my second job - over spring break I will be home so I'll have plenty of time to work and put together extra funds. Perhaps this adventure is postponed until next month if I do decide to go discus... just to get my finances straightened out, that way I can buy 5 at once, and have them shipped if need be.

Did you ever end up checking out Mac's selection? I got an email back from him, but he said I could keep TEN in a 55 gal with gravel :/ not sure if he's just trying to make a sale or what but I would not attempt putting ten 8 inch fish in a 55 gal... no way.

If he has good selection though, that saves me shipping and I still get to pick from a variety! :D

[judy]

from the looks of your tank, you do not need substrate at all. attach the anubias to driftwood, put crypts in a small pot. get rid of the gravel completely. It will not do you any good with discus. it will only make things problematic. those of us who've been there know that for sure.

[Orange Crush]

I never did check out Mac's because what a couple of people said - that the stock is very limited and he gets it from a breeder. I decided to skip the middle man and price increase that goes with that and get discus that I knew were top notch from Kenny.
When you are starting out it is hard to know what a quality discus is so I played it safe and bought from a sponser here. They are vetted by all of us who have bought from them, if they selled crap they would not be a sponser here.

[janky]

Allright, so 2 hours of digging and total water changes. Here's what my tank looks like now almost completely bare-bottom

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v648/jankyjay/photo.jpg


Strawberry was definitely right; there was filth EVERYWHERE from the plants and rocks. The water was near brown with muck... disgusting!!!

I have very little rock in there now, in sorted little islands surrounding my driftwood and the plants around them. There is a lot of clear glass at the bottom now, and I can tell this will be easier to maintain and keep clean for the discus :D

What do you guys think?

I will also be sending Kenny a PM soon, but I want to get my finances sorted, keep running parameter tests to be sure, and get everything ready for the new inhabitants!

[Orange Crush]

Looks cool but what you have left is what will be the most difficult areas to clean and will trap a lot of gunk. You left what cannot be vacuumed without moving everything around with each water change. Doable but a PITA. You do not need gravel.
However, maybe you could leave it and once you get the discus you will know why most people do BB tanks. Sometimes nothing beats first hand experience and maybe you will not mind the extra work. Everyone is different in what they are willing to do. Just remember though if it does not stay really clean you will have sick discus.

[janky]

Yeah. I should probably explain that the rocks are piled AROUND the wood and rock cave. It is bare bottomed underneath, and I could easily move the wood or rock when cleaning. I only kept the gravel to keep the plants in and I think it looks kinda cool this way - I'm not really a fan of just having pots chilling in the tank by themselves. I definitely don't mind if those 3 parts require some extra attention in cleaning, as this will be a lot easier than a WHOLE TANK full of gravel! :D

At least now I feel a little better about keeping them...worst case scenario, I hate it, find it intolerable, and end up figuring out how to plant my plants on the wood itself or moving the ones that can't be into my 10 gal

Thanks orange (and everyone else) for giving me insight when I am so new to this... I appreciate it.