Tap or ageing water?

[DavidH]

I would like to re-visit this subject if you guys don't mind!
I know there are opposing thoughts on the subject so trying to get the best or most used method.
How many go straight from tap, of course with adding the proper amount of prime or whatever vs those that age.
I wonder if adding the prime to the tank and then going directly from tank really protects the fish from chloramines, it's hard to imagine that using this method doesn't expose them to the chemicals.
It's seems that it would take a while if not short for the Chloramines to be neutralized.
I do use a big blue with carbon filter, but seems like in 50% water change the water enters so fast that contact time with filter is slight.
What say you?
Thx Dave

[jimg]

chloromines are not strong enough to bother them short term, by the time it could ever be a significant amount, which is not likely, the filters would consume it

[Melissa]

Jim- wouldn't the amount of chloramine present come into play here? If I don't add SAFE to the tank before I start refilling from the tap here in La Jolla... The fish start dropping to the bottom and laying on their sides before my tanks finish filling! There may be something to the OPs original question...
Maybe adding dechlor to the tank then filling from the tap still does expose the fish to some degree to harmful chemicals in the water before the dechlor has a chance to neutralize them...? But probably not enough to see any effect on the fish...

Though, I've heard it said that dechlorinators work almost instantaneously.

I don't really know what I'm talking about- just speculating :). :)

[jimg]

test the tap water for ammonia. I don't think you will even get a reading. the fish show no symptoms at .25 - .50, they shouldn't show any from the ammonium in the tap.

[Melissa]

Ammonia reading outta my tap is 4ppm! Lol

[Melissa]

Sorry- correction! Just tested it and today it's down to 2ppm :P lol

Local water company advised me that within the next few years they will be switching the way they clean the water from using chlorine/chloramines etc. to using ozone.
When I first tested the tap and realized how toxic it was (you can SMELL the ammonia and chemicals) I discovered, according to the water company, there are no determined limitations on, and no known unsafe amount of, those chemicals they use to clean the water out of the tap so they do whatever they please.

I use a double dose of SAFE most days ;) sometimes more to be safe... No pun intended :)

And I've recently started adding the dechlor to my aging barrel instead of adding it directly to the tank to give it a chance to mix and and do it's job. I don't age my water like I used to... I kind of use my 'aging barrel' nowadays to achieve the proper temp first before adding the water to the tank. As I drain the fish tank, my barrel fills up with dechlor added then I use the water immediately.

I think the reason most 'age' their water is not to do with chloramines and such... But to allow micro bubbles to gas off, correct? Something about irritating the gills?

[DavidH]

I just e-mail prime tech support about my question and they said in is pretty much instantaneous and the only thing I would gain by holding would the amount used.
Seeing as treated straight you use the volume of the whole tank!
But of course you have to add prime first.
Dave

[jimg]

there are no determined limitations on, and no known unsafe amount of, those chemicals they use to clean the water out of the tap so they do whatever they please. Tha's messed up!
I speak with the supervising engineer for the water pump/uv station we just built and he swears they/municipalities have extremely strict usa guidelines that have to be followed. The highest amount allowable are usually never added even at the source, so when we get water in our homes it's much much less. you can smell chlorine, but it's likely about .20ppm. I have tested ammonia here we have chloramines and never got a hint of a reading.

[Melissa]

Isn't it insane??
Our tap water has a weird smell to it, I'm pretty sure it's the ammonia.
I'm not sure when, but they're supposed to convert their methods of sanitizing our water to some other method using Ozone... Excited for that.
We get a huge spike on top of the already high amount of chlorine/chloramines in the water when they regularly 'clean' and then purge whatever holding tanks are used in the city's system. Never have any warning for that, so I play it safe and always add more Dechlor than is normally necessary.

It still gets me that of the many many people I talked to to try to get to the bottom of why there's such a large ammonia reading coming out of the tap- nobody could tell me a safe maximum amount or give me an 'acceptable' range that's safe... Pffft that's California for you I guess. As my grandma always says... "The worlds on drugs and nobody's doin' their job!"

[Matt0matic]

I'd been wanting to get a couple 55gal aging barrels set up but it seems like it would be a hassle due to space limitations and pumps/heaters/air-pumps/outlet locations/etc to all do in a room actually used to live, in not a fish room. Anyone have a simple house friendly aging set up? I'd like to see it.

[ExReefer]

I'm a big fan of SAFE, if you use the right amount. For the past two winters now I've had unknown water issues (always filling direct from tap). I aged for a while, but then I figured out my issue. I simply was not using enough SAFE. The amount of SAFE that worked in the summer was not enough for the winter as I believe my water company uses more chloramines in the winter. I nearly doubled the amount of SAFE at each water change and now my fish are thriving. Such a simple solution. Wish I thought of it last winter.

[jimg]

amount of SAFE that worked in the summer was not enough for the winter as I believe my water company uses more chloramines in the winter there are no more chloramines added in the winter than summer it's the micro bubbles in colder water.

[Pardal]

I preffer to aged the water because of more stable ph, plus cheaper when you do daily WC. I use prime only for emergencies . On the other hand most dechlorinators work instanstly and the time exposure will not affect the fish, in anycase is actually good for the fish as it cleans them somewhat. for example although not exactly the same topic when I used to breed angels I let the eggs run under the tap water overflowing for a while and it was really good as was not need for blue methilene.
However I do recomend to test your water though if you are going to delay in pouring the respective amount of dechlorinator.

Julian.

[JamesHe]

I add tap wate directly to the tank and add dechlorinator to the tank too.
Dechlorinator will react to chlorine/chloramine instantly. don't worry about the short exposure to the tap water, the consentration level is very low after mixed with tank water, no harm to the fish.

[Melissa]

Wondering for those of you who do fill from tap straight into the tank- how do you control the temperature?
In our house the water temp. fluctuates and can go from freezing to scalding within seconds LOL I would be too scared to fill directly into the tank...

[Orange Crush]

Wondering for those of you who do fill from tap straight into the tank- how do you control the temperature?
In our house the water temp. fluctuates and can go from freezing to scalding within seconds LOL I would be too scared to fill directly into the tank...
I hold a thermometer under the running water until it gets to the right temp and stays there for a minute or so (to make sure that the water will not keep getting warmer) then I fill the tank while keeping an eye on the thermometer that is in the tank so i can adjust if something happens.
When I am using the python to take water out of the tank I have the sink water on as cool as possible so I do not use up any hot water (we have a smaller sized water heater). Also, I do not allow anyone to use water when I am changing water as that can also cause my water temp to change.

[Rummy]

Doesn't hot water from the tap expose the fish to more lead and such?

[jimg]

Doesn't hot water from the tap expose the fish to more lead and such? it can depending on how old the pipes are, but again very minute amounts.

[jimg]

Anytime I change water no matter what type of water I'm using I check every few minutes with my hanna dist 5. I have had heaters fail in storage tanks plus I just recently had my tap change from 480ec to 80ec in one day, had I not been checking it might have caused problems.

[ExReefer]

there are no more chloramines added in the winter than summer it's the micro bubbles in colder water.

We can agree to disagree on this because there is no way to know for sure unless I test daily. My local water report is done annually so it's value to me is very little. Every category on the report has a range. I tend to believe that at certain times of the year, chloramines are on the high side of the range and this has a direct impact on the fish if I don't use more SAFE. I do believe that the microbubbles play a part in stressing the fish, but I don't think it's just about microbubbles.

[jimg]

We can agree to disagree on this because there is no way to know for sure unless I test daily. My local water report is done annually so it's value to me is very little. Every category on the report has a range. I tend to believe that at certain times of the year, chloramines are on the high side of the range and this has a direct impact on the fish if I don't use more SAFE. I do believe that the microbubbles play a part in stressing the fish, but I don't think it's just about microbubbles.the problem with the micro bubbles is that is what the gasses/chems attach to then get on the fishes gills and cause disruptions. the reason we notice more in the winter is simply because the water is colder and holds more o2. like i have said many times before there are strict guidelines they have to follow. the chems are electronically controlled.they do not add more or less of one due to an increase in bacteria. at least where I live anyway. I am sure there are some behind the times areas that do not follow, but that is extremely few
The annual reports are also not based on what is tested 1x a year, most are based on averages of multiple tests, most done daily.

[deepflyball]

I have as nice a groupe of discus as most anyone and have never aged my water. I use double the recomended dose for prime. You people that test water every day lol. I havent tested in more than a year. in fact i only test when spawning, and thats just for water hardness. Jerry

[Damaskeno Bryant]

Hello,

Thanks for sharing your valuable suggestion, if you want to give really a good surprise,My water seems to be quite white lately as well. I dont notice it doing water changes, but i do notice it if i am filling a glass of water or my cats water dish. I have even tried running the water for a minute before filling his dish and it still is cloudy in his bowl. I have not had any problems due to it .

Nice to meet you
Romen esko

[jimg]

You people that test water every day lol do you have municipal water? do you mix ro with tap or other elements? do you have wilds? some have fine water some have questionable. I'd say you are very lucky.lol

[dprais1]

I've been aging my water for about 24hrs before filling my tank. Prime-aerated-heated. What do you all suggest filling my barrel with cold water or warm water?

I've been using warm water so the temp just needs to 'lower' versus the heater in the barrel working like crazy for the first 8 hours just to get it to a decent temp.
Any thoughts?