"Queries regarding my first fish tank, preferably a discus tank"?

[bullzi]

Hi all,

I am new to the forum, I have gone through some stickies here and they are really really helpful. I am going to have a new tank soon and have some queries regarding it:

1) Please Introduce your self and tell us what your experience is with fishkeeping, give us as much information as possible as to how long in the hobby, what you have kept in the past and what you currently are working with.

Ans:- I am totally new in fishkeeping, I have no previous experience.

2) If you have no previous experience with keeping discus, have you done any research to properly prepare yourself, e.g. have you read any Stickies in this section of SimplyDiscus, or other material?

Ans:- I have gone through some stickies on beginners guide, I am continuing reading more threads, I have read some threads in other forums, I have ordered Baro', pet manual for Discus.

3) Describe your tank, its size and dimensions, breeding or display. Include how long it has been setup or if it is still being cycled.

Ans:- My tank is a new one, 48 * 20 * 20 - it will be a display tank.

4) Describe the décor for the tank; type of substrate or bare bottom (BB), whether the tank will be planted or a biotope.

Ans:- I am not sure about it, but I have read BB is the easiest way to go.

5) Describe your water changes planned or practiced, percentage and how often. Include if you age your water and use of tap/RO or mix.

Ans:- I am totally confused here. I know people who keep discus change 30-40% water every other day/3 days per week. I also know people who does 200% each day.

6) Describe the type of filtration planned/used for the tank; sponge, HOB and/or sump. Also include the other equipment you are, or will be, using in your tank, e.g. heater, lighting, etc.

Ans:- I have bought Eheim 2217 filter, will also add a sponge filter additionally.

7) If the tank is already setup and running, include the water parameters;

Ans:- Tank is yet to be set up. Water will be from tap. I will buy test kit and post water parameters here.

8) Describe your current or planned stocking levels; number/size of discus and number/type of dither fish. Where did you get your discus from or do you have a proposed source for getting your discus?

Ans:- I wish to keep 5-6 discus max. You suggest if I can add any fish later.

9) Describe your planned or existing feeding regimen. Include what and how often you are feeding on a daily basis.

Ans:- I can feed max 3 times/day. Beefheart/Goatheart really needed as diet for discus to make them healthy happy?

10) What are your goals in this hobby? For example are you looking to keep discus in a planted community tank, or do you hope to become a hobby breeder of Discus? Do you want to raise Discus with the hopes of competing in shows?

Ans:- My goal is to enjoy my discus in leisure hours and make them happy as well.

Hence, please advise can I plunge into this hobby or it is impossible to keep discus for beginners? Also, I will be keeping angel fish for the first 4-5 months, then change to discus. Is it doable?

Thanks in advance.

:)

[bullzi]

No suggestion guyz?

:(

[Second Hand Pat]

Hi Bullzi, welcome to simply :) So you have not kept fish before? and you wish to start with angels before moving to discus?

[BigBruiserAl]

My advise is before even buying the tank let alone fish is to read up and most important understand the fishless cycle

[Ioan C.]

Hi, if you implement the advices and always ask if you have doubts when you do or change something, it is easily possible to begin with Discus.
Act first and ask later can cause serious mistakes!
The first thing You must know is the nitrogen cycle in aquariums.
This is the most important thing you need to know about aquariums, now and in the future.
Before the biofilter is operating properly, the toxins resulting in the water are very dangerous for the fish. Please do not put fishes or other creatures in the Aquarium before the Biofilter is ready to work.
It takes at least 5-6 weeks until all the necessary bacteria colonies are formed in the biofilter, if you're doing everything right. You can buy bacteria to speed up the processes. Then it takes about one-third less time.
If there are only nitrate in water, and no nitrite, the biofilter is ready to work properly.
While the bacterial colony formation, the bacteria must be fed with fish food or ammonia.
The required dose of ammonia is, in the first 1-2 weeks, about 0.5 mg / L. In the next 2-3 weeks it may be increased to 1 mg / L, until the end of the proceses.
During the process, each waterchange extend it by a few days, because with the remote water also beneficial bacteria are removed. The bacteria do not need light, but a lot of oxygen.
Please inquire yourself what you need, before you buy a biofilter!

[Ioan C.]

Ans:- I have bought Eheim 2217 filter,...This is a mistake. It is the best Filter you can buy, but it contains the wrong filter material.
It is not good enough for the bacteria. Everything else except highly porous material is wrong. In the filter should enter only water and ammonium/ammonia and nitrite/nitrate. No solids or other particulates from the water, because these clog the filter material.
It must then be cleaned, and many bacteria get lost.

[bullzi]

Thanks to everyone for your replies.

@ pat,

Yes, I wish to start with angels in a black water biotope and then after 6-7 months I will shift to discus. Is this doable?

@BigBruiser

I have been doing some reading for the last 1.5 months and I have also read a couple of books regarding aquarium basics. I have gained some knowledge regarding N2 cycling. I have a couple of friends who are in fishkeeping for long time. They suggested me to add fish food only everyday for a couple of weeks before adding any fish and test for water parameters. Then I can add 3-4 fish in my 4 feet tank if the parameters are ok.

@Ioan C

I bought the filter as suggested by my friends, it has got some biofilter media packed within it, if needed, I can always buy ceramic rings from the market additionally. Is Eheim that bad of a filter? What filter do you suggest? Also, I have read that cleaning filter in tank water won't kill beneficial bacteria, hence, I will only do cleaning in that way.

[strawberryblonde]

The eheim filter is fine. I think Ioan was explaining that the media included with the eheim isn't the best for discus.

Most people around here try to make cleaning the tank and filters as simple as possible, so we fill the filter with strictly bio media. That would be ceramic rings or bio balls, poret foam, etc. Then you just put a prefilter on the intake tube and voila, lots less need to clean the filter since lots less crap ends up in it. =)

I purchased a sponge pre-filter for about $10 for my canister filter after 1 month of swishing out the media every 3 days. Oh let me tell ya, that was one of the BEST investments I ever made. After the pre-filter went on the intake I only had to swish the canister bio media once a month.

Oh and yep, you're absolutely right, swish it in tank water in order to keep the bacteria alive and kicking. The other alternative (which I use since ALL my tank water goes straight out to the garden) is to fill a 3 gallon bucket with tap water, then dechlorinate it and swish the media in that. It works just as well.

[bullzi]

^

hey thanks for the reply, I think I should get a pre filter also for my Eheim.

:)

Also, please pour in with more suggestions to help me out with my fishkeeping adventure.

:)

BTW, what size of container I need to change my water and how frequently?

[BigBruiserAl]

Thanks to everyone for your replies.


@BigBruiser

I have been doing some reading for the last 1.5 months and I have also read a couple of books regarding aquarium basics. I have gained some knowledge regarding N2 cycling. I have a couple of friends who are in fishkeeping for long time. They suggested me to add fish food only everyday for a couple of weeks before adding any fish and test for water parameters. Then I can add 3-4 fish in my 4 feet tank if the parameters are ok.



Thats a terrible way to cycle a tank, whoever told you to that i would question any further advise. Allow me to explain, the way you suggested will end up in a fishless cycle and will cause harm to any fish. Please read up on FISHLESS cycles with ammonia that a safe way and you can rest assured even with messy fish like discus you can sleep at night knowing there getting ammonia poisoning.

[bullzi]

^

I cannot read your post meaningfully, can you please be a bit clearer? Also, the fish food will rot and eventually end in producing NH3?

[BigBruiserAl]

Sorry ill try again. If you add fish food it will produce ammonia but you cant get a consistent level of ammonia, also the bactetria you want will not grow fast enough or strong enough to support a big fish like discus using just fish food. That method is not wrong as such it was used 10-15 years ago when we didt have the knoweldge of todays fish keeping. Discus want their water A1 which means no Ammonia or nitrite at all this will take a long time using fish food or prawns as the catalyst. My best advise is get a bottle of ammonia (i use 9.5% strength) read up fishless cycle which invloves a few Ml of ammonia to the tank for approx 30 days after which you can safely stock any size fish without worry. Hope thats a bit clearer i didt want to go through the whole cycle as there are far better writes ups all ove the web :)

[bullzi]

^

Hey thanks for all of your effort in answering my queries. I have got the idea. I will do the way as you have described by adding NH3 directly into the water.

BTW, I am not going to add Discus rightaway. I will build a black water biotope for angel fish at the moment, I will add discus may be 6-7 months later.

:)

[strawberryblonde]

Using Ammonia for a fishless cycle is very effective and the best way, just be sure that it's pure ammonia and doesn't have any detergents added. I get it at Ace hardware, but I'm sure other stores also carry it.

Another option is to purchase a seeded sponge filter from your angel breeder or your discus breeder when you purchase the fish. You've already said that you are planning to use a sponge filter in addition to the eheim, so it's just one more easy step to having a cycled tank in a hurry.

I purchased 2 seeded sponges from my LFS when I bought my cory's and german rams. He pulled them directly from the QT tanks that the fish were in, bagged them in some of the tank water and poof, I was done. Never had a bit of trouble with my tanks.

I meant to ask you if there's a reason that you are going to do an angel tank first. It's very possible to just start right off with discus. I did it last April. Jumped in with both feet and purchased 5 discus from Discus Hans (a sponsor here on the forums). They have been very healthy and easy to raise! I chose to buy 4" discus in order to make my job easier since it was my first time raising a whole group of them.

If you put angels in the tank first, you will need to QT the discus when you do buy them in order to be sure that the angels and discus aren't carrying any pathogens that would be harmful to either group.

You can avoid the QT process on the discus if you buy them first, and then QT any other new fish that you add at a later time. For me it was cory's and rams that needed QT.

[bullzi]

^

I started thinking like I will begin with discus first but soon my thoughts changed when I heard I have to make water changes 100%/more than 100% everyday from a local guy who keeps discus for a long time. I work in IT sector and without any experience, it would be a nightmare for me to make daily water changes (not to mention that I have to prepare the new water separately). Hence, I thought of starting with a bit more hardy fish, the angels, get used to the maintenance work a bit and then shift to discus. What do you say?

[Second Hand Pat]

You can tell if the ammonia has detergents by shaking it. If it foams then it has detergents or surfactants.

[bullzi]

^

Hey thanks a lot for the info, I will keep it in mind.

:)

[strawberryblonde]

Ahhhh, it's true that you need to do massive water changes each and every day when you are raising juvenile discus, but if you purchase sub-adults, you can reduce the size of the water change considerably!

I purchased 4" discus. They were a whole lot easier for water changes than the smaller discus. With a reasonable feeding schedule, you can do 50% wc per day with these bigger guys and still have the fun of watching them grow out into adults.

It's completely up to you which way you want to go though, ok? Raising angels can be fun too. =)

[bullzi]

^

Hmmm, even 50% waterchange daily can be a hassle for me to start with, I just want to get used to this job first, that is why starting with angels. If 50% water change each other day was suitable, I would have had no issues at all.

:)

[BigBruiserAl]

like you i work in IT and i do 14hr days, i change my water every 4th day i also check my water stats evey 4th day before water change everything normal here :)

[Orange Crush]

it would be a nightmare for me to make daily water changes (not to mention that I have to prepare the new water separately). Hence, I thought of starting with a bit more hardy fish, the angels, get used to the maintenance work a bit and then shift to discus.
No matter what size you get there may be a time where you will need to do daily changes (water quality issues, illness, etc). Also, it is best to do daily water changes no matter what size you get.
If you are not up for doing it now, are you sure that you will be in the future? If not, then discus are not for you.

[bullzi]

@BigBruiser

I hope your wc routine works out for me too.

:)

@Orange Crush

I have said it would be a nightmare for me to do daily water changes right from the beginning as I have no previous experience and I may mess up with things most probably. When I am used to using siphons and pumps, it will be a lot easier/less time consuming for me to do the maintenance work. As simple as that.

Also, not all of the discus keepers do daily water changes except for breeders/guyz who are rearing up discus.

[Orange Crush]

I have said it would be a nightmare for me to do daily water changes right from the beginning as I have no previous experience and I may mess up with things most probably. When I am used to using siphons and pumps, it will be a lot easier/less time consuming for me to do the maintenance work. As simple as that.

Also, not all of the discus keepers do daily water changes except for breeders/guyz who are rearing up discus.
Actually, a lot of non breeder discus keepers do daily water changes. From what I have read on the forum the newer a person is at keeping discus the less likely they are to do daily water changes but then they get sick fish and learn that wc's is the most important thing in keeping discus happy and healthy. They are very finicky about their water (the discus not the owners, lol). People who have been discus owners for a long time are much more likely to do daily wc's because they know it works. The ones who are most sucessful are the ones who do the most wc's.

I have had discus for only 2.5 months but I do daily wc's because after being on this forum, I listened to the "old timers" advice.

That said, I understand it will be a struggle when you are first learning, it takes much more time to keep up tank maintenence than I ever expected even with heartier fish like guppies, mollies, danios, etc. I am glad that I learned on fish who could survive my mistakes.

I just wanted you to think about whether you are going to be willing to do all that is necessary to keep discus healthy, it is a LOT more work than other fish; especially if you do not buy adult discus.

[bullzi]

^

Thanks for the advise. I will definitely do whatever is needed to make my fish happy. And I also do not want to let my fish die for careless activities of mine, that is why I am not jumping into discus right from the very beginning as I know they need special care.

As you have said earlier, a lot of non breeders also do daily wc. But not all of them make daily water changes and still have happy healthy fish. As I have read, if you feed your discus daily with BHM/GHM, you may need to do 100% wc daily. WCs also depend on how often you feed/what you feed isn't it? And also what I have read in various forums/articles, under feeding is better than over feeding?

Also I will be buying adult fish, I am not gonna grow up juveniles.

[Orange Crush]

As I have read, if you feed your discus daily with BHM/GHM, you may need to do 100% wc daily. WCs also depend on how often you feed/what you feed isn't it?
Yes, the amount of wc's depends on several factors but I still think the best way to take care of discus no matter the age, tank, set up ect. is to do daily wc's. It keeps it simple and will help to prevent many sick discus.

Less than ideal water quality will be the cause of many problems and excellent water quality will be the cure of many problems, including illness.

[bullzi]

^

Hmm, ok

:)