I'm doing juvies in high tech planted tank, one way to go right? downhill...

[strungout]

Here is my setup, I am willing to take any scorn or ridicule anyone has. This tank is mainly for my enjoyment and thinking. I'm hoping the juvies grow up well and good enough to sell off and replace with new juvies.

30g cube mr aqua
96w t5s 4 x 24 6500k bulbs
AC70 sponge, plenty of carbon, think bag of purigen is in there as well
aquatop uv sterilizer 9 watt
3 up aqua glass diffusers co2
2 microbubble oxygen diffusers
marineland heater degrees 86

fauna
3 red turks so far received from Bill @ inland empire
4 corydoras similaris
blue rili shrimps/aura blue shrimps

flora
syngonanthus belem
syn rio uaupes
syn manaus
erios parkeri, siedobolum??, japan shiga, cinerum, cinerum mini, aussie type 2
marsilea minuta, quadrifolia
hc, ug
riccia
san paolo, ludwigia pantanal, palustris
lindernia india and more.....

maintenance so far..
daily water changes 60 to 80%
pfertz(lab grade) you can tell by how clean it looks
scrub glass, leave subs alone
feed 5-7x++ daily bloodworms live

Its been a week or two, so far so good, don't know when it will sour though....Or how badly they will stunt.

http://i284.photobucket.com/albums/ll14/StrungOut_bucket/IMG_5162.jpg

[Lenin]

Not taking the bait, I refuse

[strawberryblonde]

You posted this 6 days early. =)

[Skip]

yes.. only one way to go..

great planted tank

[Second Hand Pat]

Guys, consider the OP's username....he wants you to join him lol

[wdeleon01]

Guys, consider the OP's username....he wants you to join him lol

+1

[rbarn]

Water temp ?

[strungout]

bunch of bashers abound no input? Just downhill?

86degrees

[tonytheboss1]

:confused: And your point is.... ? "T"

[strungout]

No I wanted to share, and see if people had advice too and maybe this could be a continualed learning experience for me and others. I think it'll work though. Its mainly a time soother for me.

[Second Hand Pat]

bunch of bashers abound no input? Just downhill?

86degrees

Instead of pushing everyone's buttons on this perhaps it would be best to return in six months with results.

[magewynd]

Is your name Brian?

[warblad79]

Just buy guppy or molly.

[strungout]

Instead of pushing everyone's buttons on this perhaps it would be best to return in six months with results.

How bout updating weekly - bi-weekly? fair?

[Chicago Discus]

What is going on in here?

[strungout]

well day one my first mistake already happend I didn't acclimate them well and long enough and they were breathing very heavily. After about 20 they adjusted. Phew.

http://i284.photobucket.com/albums/ll14/StrungOut_bucket/IMG_5188-Copy.jpg

http://i284.photobucket.com/albums/ll14/StrungOut_bucket/IMG_5189-Copy.jpg

http://i284.photobucket.com/albums/ll14/StrungOut_bucket/IMG_5197.jpg

[Chicago Discus]

When I first started keeping discus I had a very nice planted tank with great lighting co2 the whole nine yards went out to my local fish store and bought five Discus about 2 to 3 inches and bought a couple of books to learn how to care for My new Discus. I changed about 30% in my 120 weekly and added all the right stuff for my plants and fed my new discus three times a day with pellets and flakes and the occasional live food. After about a month or so a couple of the discus didn't look so hot so I went back to the local fish store and the nice man behind the counter stated that I was feeding my fish to much so I fed less and the two died. Time went on and I ended up with three really buitiful STUNTED Discus I didn't understand what went wrong until I started doing research on how to properly take care of Discus. IMO Discus and plants are fine just not young discus you really need lots of fresh clean water and daily water changes to properly grow them out. It's just my opinion good luck.............Josie

[aguest]

I change around 50% water everyday. In addition, I remove everything, literally everything, to clean the gravel and put them back again. A planted tank can work!

[strungout]

ty for advice josie, guest you uproot all your plants to siphon/clean your gravel?

[TexasDiscus!!]

Like to see what happens.

[aguest]

Yup.

[Skip]

dang those fish are small.. :)

great clear pics!!!

[Lenin]

dang those fish are small.. :)

great clear pics!!!

Yeah I would grab those and place them in a BB 10 gallon and start raising them at least to 3" before placing them in a big tank

[strungout]

dang those fish are small.. :)

great clear pics!!!

Yeah they seem stunted already:mad:

3/23 update feeding video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-NHT00HXMU8

[judy]

I read some of your other posts. You have barebottom tanks. Put these poor little guys on one of those and grow them out before you try keeping them in the planted.

[Lenin]

Video is private, can't see

But they're not stunt, they look like they'll start to grow but you need to place them in a BB tank with a sponger filter and grow them about 3-4 months then you can place them in that big tank. Right now you're in a crossroads, they will have a future if you decide to follow what everyone here is telling you.

I actually got some that size a while ago and they grew to be beautiful flachens. Blue as the sea and very round

[Skip]

not stunted.. just young..

very little room for error in their development..

[strungout]

I really want to see how it goes, I already got all the hard maintenance down. But you guys are guilting me and I will think of this decision very hard, nothing but good could come out, but I just love looking at this tank all the time, its so awesome and the fish compliment it well.....

Don't they seem very happy too by the way they swim and eat?

[Lenin]

OK, so I said my 2 cents, I'm out.

[strungout]

I guess maybe last update, today:

I'm not sure if they're any bigger, but they're eating constantly.
http://i284.photobucket.com/albums/ll14/StrungOut_bucket/IMG_5384.jpg
http://i284.photobucket.com/albums/ll14/StrungOut_bucket/IMG_5387.jpg
http://i284.photobucket.com/albums/ll14/StrungOut_bucket/IMG_5372.jpg

I got these fish 3/22, this is 5th day

[Samsmobb]

I think it'll work just keep at it, don't listen to people b.c everyone thinks it only works one way, it can work anyone as long as you do the hardworking.

[judy]

I think it'll work just keep at it, don't listen to people b.c everyone thinks it only works one way,
The experienced people on the forum are sharing their knowledge based on many years of working with discus, and, yes, the best way to raise juvies is the one way. Assuming, of course, that you want large, healthy, happy discus...

[Harriett]

I really want to see how it goes, I already got all the hard maintenance down. But you guys are guilting me and I will think of this decision very hard, nothing but good could come out, but I just love looking at this tank all the time, its so awesome and the fish compliment it well.....

Don't they seem very happy too by the way they swim and eat?

I think you can do this. The tank, from what I can see, looks fine. The hardest thing in this situation is that you have tiny fish that need to eat constantly. you have the obstacle of having plants to clean around and a substrate that needs to be kept extremely clean, because naturally plant debris and ditrius from the whole seet up is going to land there and potentially create a bacteria problem. Which is why people like to do this hobby in BB tanks. However, it can be done doing what you are doing.
I used to do juvies in the planted tank and eventually, after raising a batch BB, I found it WAS way easier to do that route. I then switched to raising in a BB the first year and then putting them in a planted tank. The planted tank grew great and the fish grew great and it was less work for me.
The first time I did a discus tank ever, it was a large high tech planted tank. The fish grew fine, and in fact some of the largest discus I ever grew were from that first set up. But it was a whole lot of work and I did have some health issues, honestly. They were correctable but who needs it.
What you need to remember is that although the plants will take up and use some of the poop etc to grow, you need to keep the tank as clean as possible, and that is a taller order, but doable. So when you clean, REALLY clean. Plant your plants in ways so you can get around them in all directions to syphon. Gently put the python over and on the plants themselves to clean the substrate and any dead plant material. Looks like the kinds of plants you put in there will allow that. Watch out for plants with teeny needle shaped leaves, they are trickier to keep happy and can make a holy mess inthe tank.
Be sure you have PREFILTERS on your filters and clean them daily--this is a big tip, so remember this one!
Although you need to feed your discus babies 6+ times a day for optimal growth, do it smart. Do not feed beefy/fishy foods that will rot quickly. I would suggest earth worm flake, beef flake, a good mix of flakes and pellets--do your homework on the best brands; some live food like CBW or better, FDBW [see Al]. You can feed frozen bloodworms which they will snap up quickly. Work out a method to feed so the food stays in one area, either a floating ring or a cone with some enlarged holes. Do not have any plants below it. Have enough of a clean up crew that they will go after any of the extra food. PAY GOOD ATTENTION when you feed so you feed enough but there are no left overs in 10 minutes. The discus will be at the top of the food chain if you do it right with fish in the tank. They will eat under the ring/cone, and whatever falls to the substrate will be grabbed by the clean up team. You would do well to get MTS [Malaysian Trumpet Snails] which are a small variety of snail that do not like to come out to hang on the glass [unless they are too hot], but stay in the substrate and keep it aerated. The do NOT eat plants. If you don't overfeed, they won't multiply out of reasonableness and they are an indicator if you DO feed too much.
I would lower the temp to 84 and when the discus are full grown, lower it to 82. Plants will be happier and bacteria will slow down.
About your UV sterilizer however you have it hooked up, remember that it's all about the DWELL time. If the water shoots through it SLOWLY, it will help keep bacteria down. If the water shoots through quuickly, it's a waste. I had one and never used it.
You have to have a balance between keeping water clean but keeping enough nutrients in the tank for the plants to thrive. I would use undergravel fert pellets so that you can change a lot of water.
You have an awful lot of light going on in that thing and if it were me, I would lower it a bit--to keep up with that much light you need a hella lot of ferts and growth or it will be an algae plague. A little less light, a little less nutrient bomb, a little easier on the CO2.
I would tear the tank down every 3 months and clean it to within an inch of it's life with juvies.Take the fish out of the tank because you will make a mess--put them back in when you finish and the water clears so they don't have particulates going through the little gills material. and get stressed out from it. A 5 gal bucket with an air hose is fine for 24 hours or more. I did that every 6 months when I had adults in there. I would get bored anyhow and want to fiddle with the set up. grow plants that will cling to wood and not have to be in the substrate, also so you can move the wood and do your work.
Just some thoughts and tips.
I was a little wordy, hoping this helps.
Best regards,
Harriett

[Teshi]

Harriett,
I really liked your reply! Instead of saying it can't be done... you state a great way and all the work on how you "COULD" do it if you have the time, patience and dedication! It does sound like TONS more work. I guess that is why everyone suggests a BB tank for us beginners. I started out with subtrate because I really liked the look. It took 2wks and it was gone. I do love the ease of the BB tank.

[strungout]

Thanks for advice esp Harriett, its been a lot of work already. I am going to xfer bb tank as soon as I get it and cycled. I really don't want to mess with siphoning the substrate or tearing down after 3 months and the tanks only high enough to grow them to a certain point. I'm cutting as my 100g is my main focus n breeding of my PE's and TT's. I'll keep updated till I xfer.

question: is blackworms a good staple diet for both juvies and adults then supplemented with others?

[strungout]

Also anyone recommend some nice fish for this tank? I was thinking badis, or galaxy rasbs.

[Harriett]

You can get freeze dried black worms {FDBW} which are the easiest food in the world to deal with and are a great source of safe protein--your fish will love them. Al [Brewmaster] sells them. Or you could get live black worms, watch the banners here for the sellers. I have fed both. Without question, live blackworms make your fish euphoric but of all the various ways of keeping live worms in good healthy shape for more than a few days and not risking health issues in my fish, to say nothing of the big PITA it was to deal with them, I quit and just went for the FDBW.
Live worms are pricey and if they are a regular part of the discus diet, you need to have plenty of change in your pocket.
I rather like ordering 6 months of dried food and not having to even negotiate any problems.
That's my take.
Best regards,
Harriett


Thanks for advice esp Harriett, its been a lot of work already. I am going to xfer bb tank as soon as I get it and cycled. I really don't want to mess with siphoning the substrate or tearing down after 3 months and the tanks only high enough to grow them to a certain point. I'm cutting as my 100g is my main focus n breeding of my PE's and TT's. I'll keep updated till I xfer.

question: is blackworms a good staple diet for both juvies and adults then supplemented with others?

[rbarn]

No I wanted to share, and see if people had advice .

Dont do it ?
Only put adults in planted tanks ?

Wondering how you plants are doing at 86 degrees. Mine always melt at much over 80-82.

[strungout]

temp is like 84 degrees but heater is set to 86, I think all the co2 I pump in and oxygen for respiration keeps em from melting.

I'm now going to fill my bare 30 gal acrylic tank all the way and let it cycle for 2-3 days before I transfer the discus.

Picture updates:

You can see I've gotten algae, with daily water changes and irregular dosing its hard to keep a nutrient balance. Or with the o2 being pumped in not enough co2. The babies I think have grown but I see them daily so I don't know. No matter, I'm going to transfer them, focus on getting rid of the algae, might go metricide 14, raise these juvies and so on...

http://i284.photobucket.com/albums/ll14/StrungOut_bucket/IMG_5430.jpg

http://i284.photobucket.com/albums/ll14/StrungOut_bucket/IMG_5431.jpg

http://i284.photobucket.com/albums/ll14/StrungOut_bucket/IMG_5437.jpg

http://i284.photobucket.com/albums/ll14/StrungOut_bucket/IMG_5434.jpg

http://i284.photobucket.com/albums/ll14/StrungOut_bucket/IMG_5433.jpg

http://i284.photobucket.com/albums/ll14/StrungOut_bucket/IMG_5436.jpg

http://i284.photobucket.com/albums/ll14/StrungOut_bucket/IMG_5439.jpg

http://i284.photobucket.com/albums/ll14/StrungOut_bucket/IMG_5438.jpg

http://i284.photobucket.com/albums/ll14/StrungOut_bucket/IMG_5441.jpg

[Orange Crush]

I'm now going to fill my bare 30 gal acrylic tank all the way and let it cycle for 2-3 days before I transfer the discus.
Do not put discus, esp your juvies in a tank that is not cycled. They cannot tolerate the ammonia and nitrItes at all.

[strungout]

how long you suggest? 3 days?

[Orange Crush]

how long you suggest? 3 days?
It takes about 4-8 weeks to cycle a tank using cheap hardy fish or preferably a fishless cycle.
Do you know anything about the nitrogen cycle? "new tank syndrome"? It kills most fish and those that survive have more health problems and shorter lives. It is "fish torture" which is why I recommend "fishless cycling".
Do some reading on it please.

[strungout]

Wow, didn't know it took so long...Might I speed up the cycle by adding pure 100% established water from another tank? Filter is established already too.

[Orange Crush]

Wow, didn't know it took so long...Might I speed up the cycle by adding pure 100% established water from another tank?The water has almost no BB but does have stuff you do not want (nitrAtes, waste, etc.). If you want to speed up the cycle you should use esablished BB colonies in your substrate and filter media. Keep in mind that if these come from a different tank than what the discus are in now then you are exposing them to potential illnesses that they may not have an immunity for.
Make sure when you transfer the substrate/filter media you do not expose it to water that has not been treated with dechlor or you will kill the BB. Also, do not leave the subs/f. media out of water for very long.
This will speed it up but it will still take awhile (depends on how much BB there is). Test for ammonia, nitrItes daily. When you get to 0 on those, test to see if you have nitrAtes. If you do then your tank is cycled and ready for your discus.
I would still do a fishless cycle with this method.

[strungout]

Ro Water shouldn't have any nitrates though...

[Orange Crush]

Ro Water shouldn't have any nitrates though...
Not before you put it in tank but once it has been in tank you will get nitrAtes.
However, my point is that water from another tank will not do anything to "jump start" another tank because you need BB to do that and it is pretty much non-existant in water. BB attatch themselves to objects like substrate and filter media. Water will have more bad stuff than stuff you need to cycle another tank. If you read about the N cycle all of this will make sense to you. Please, please, please read about it.

[strungout]

I put six puffers into the 30g with a very established filter. Hopefully this will speed things along. I'm not sure if the juvies grew or not, I cannot tell, but been water changing and feedings daily.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w75cxJtYDa4&feature=youtu.be

[LizStreithorst]

Was that you posting on Tropical Fish Forums? User name jrman83?

[strungout]

No does he have my tank or what? Link?

[strungout]

Update:

http://i284.photobucket.com/albums/ll14/StrungOut_bucket/IMG_5559.jpg

http://i284.photobucket.com/albums/ll14/StrungOut_bucket/IMG_5556.jpg

http://i284.photobucket.com/albums/ll14/StrungOut_bucket/IMG_5552.jpg


http://youtu.be/Qh-oU1d5RFc

[roundfishross]

growth should be very evident at this stage .25 " per week is average. get them feeding heavily or they will stunt VERY quickly

[strungout]

Ya I think they're growing. I'm going to try and get them bb soon n keep due on feedings.

[strungout]

Was that you posting on Tropical Fish Forums? User name jrman83?

??

[Harriett]

Dont do it ?
Only put adults in planted tanks ?

Wondering how you plants are doing at 86 degrees. Mine always melt at much over 80-82.

Some plants are more finnicky and will not grow well at 80-82. LOTS of plants will, though.
If you stick to crypts, swords, more common stuff, you can do it. The way I did it was to start the plants in the tank first. I acclimated them at 78 degrees and very slowly over a period of weeks just pushed the tempp up a little until I got to 82-83. Never had a problem after that.
There are lots of plants that will work that way, but it is clearly trial and error.
Best regards,
HArriett

[Harriett]

if you have an established filter, it should only take a couple days. you can help it along by adding a teaspoon of plain ammonia, no additives, into the tank and the bacteria will generate a stronger cycle. Watch your levels. I have done this lots of times, often with out even adding ammonia, and the tank catches up with itself in a couple days.
Starting with a new filter in an new tank is a different thing entirely.
Harriett

[strungout]

The deed is done, they have been transfered. I feel a huge burden uplifted. Now I can focus on my planted tank on actually growing the plants prime as this has been the best I have been able to grow so far. The juvies will be much easier to care for. I hope they like it better.

I also put some emmersed moss tied to wood in with em. Going old school, not sure if it'll grow in over 80F.

http://i284.photobucket.com/albums/ll14/StrungOut_bucket/IMG_5569-1.jpg

http://i284.photobucket.com/albums/ll14/StrungOut_bucket/IMG_5576-1.jpg

no light on this setup just indirect sunlight
http://i284.photobucket.com/albums/ll14/StrungOut_bucket/IMG_5584.jpg

preggo blue rili
http://i284.photobucket.com/albums/ll14/StrungOut_bucket/IMG_5585.jpg

pantanal just cut to let sideshoots grow out.
http://i284.photobucket.com/albums/ll14/StrungOut_bucket/IMG_5586.jpg

[Orange Crush]

There is going to be soooo much food and poop that gets trapped in the moss that will be next to impossible to vacuum out. I would re-think using that plant in a discus tank if I were you.

[strungout]

I'll try it out, figure something out like lightly siphoning it or using current with hand onto it while siphoning excrement coming off..iono. If it gets outta hand...then ya

[PaulD]

Hi all!
I'm new to discus I have 125g heavily plants. How big discus should I put in it? And how the water change?

[Skip]

Hi all!
I'm new to discus I have 125g heavily plants. How big discus should I put in it? And how the water change?

6'..

[nc0gnet0]

6'..

LOL, you selling some 6 footers skip? ;)

[Skip]

LOL, you selling some 6 footers skip? ;)

TEXAS SIZE!

[JenTN]

LOL, you selling some 6 footers skip? ;)

He's measuring in man inches ;-)

[Orange Crush]

He's measuring in man inches ;-)
:D