What do you do with unwanted discus?

[Greenheinie]

I have five discus between two and three years old, but would really like to start fresh with juvies. The fish are great and healthy, but certainly haven't grown out to their full potential. I'm pretty sure nobody would want to buy them even at a low price. What would you do with unwanted discus if you didn't have a second tank to house them in?

[brewmaster15]

You could bring them to a fish club and donate them.:) Theres a couple of Guys at the Norwalk Aquarium Society that would give them a great home I am sure.
-al

[T_om]

Culling is always tough. Have someone that knows quality discus take a look at yours. It is hard, but there is really no point in keeping, or giving away, low-quality discus. If they are fish that have just been raised poorly, or not to their full potential, that is one thing. Just low quality is another.

It is also an unfortunate fact that most keepers of low quality fish "lucky" enough to get a breeding pair out of them, actually allow these fish to breed. They turn a blind eye to the quality of the offspring and foist them off on newbies... thus hurting the quality of the overall population.

Culling is, IMHO, a necessary step in breeding/keeping these fish. And one that is too often overlooked.

Tom

[kendrid]

I have five discus between two and three years old, but would really like to start fresh with juvies. The fish are great and healthy, but certainly haven't grown out to their full potential. I'm pretty sure nobody would want to buy them even at a low price. What would you do with unwanted discus if you didn't have a second tank to house them in?

Put them on Craigslist for a reasonable price. Not everyone is looking for 8"+ "perfect" discus. Just look at the garbage most fish stores sell. I assume yours are better than the fish stores? If so, why not sell them.

[Bill63SG]

Exactly what I did.I even pointed out to one of the buyers what I thought was wrong and why I was geting rid of it.But I sold them pretty cheap,and was honest,so I don't have any regrets.

[AngryBird]

if you selling them, pick a buyer that knows something about keeping discus. Else you could as well cull them instead of them landing on wrong hands. I just sold some of my fishes for lot less but I filtered the buyers and made sure that fishes are getting to tanks that are good for discus.

[Darrell Ward]

I've given away lots of fish over the years, even big boys, mainly to create tank space for new fish. Occasionally, I can sell, or trade them also. Not a huge market for Discus in my area however. Sorry to say, I've even resorted to culling a few as well. "Throwing them out in the yard" as I sometimes say. My wife doesn't think that sounds as funny as I do.

[deepflyball]

I always fulsh them down the stool. Had one that was to big to flush and after many attemps my wife made me put it back in the tank, still there a year and half later Jerry

[Greenheinie]

Thanks for the comments folks. The fish I would say are good quality (I bought them from Discuss Madness as juvies), but I tried growing them out in a planted tank that had CO2 and ferts pumped in. The largest, a BD is maybe a bit over 6", two others are between 5" and 6", a yellow diamond who started laying eggs not too long ago I guess is capped at about 4", and a runty PB who is also small around 4".

They're all healthy and active, but I guess I've gotten to that point where I'm dieing to get a fresh group of juvies and grow them out. I think part of my hesitation towards selling/giving them away is the guilt I'd get from my wife and parents since they all really like the fish.

I wish I had another tank!!!

[mlov1022]

I always fulsh them down the stool. Had one that was to big to flush and after many attemps my wife made me put it back in the tank, still there a year and half later Jerry:D:D That's funny :D:D

[Chicago Discus]

I always fulsh them down the stool. Had one that was to big to flush and after many attemps my wife made me put it back in the tank, still there a year and half later Jerry

Thats the craziest thing I heard all day LOL LOL......

[Cevoe]

Was it a brown?

[tendertouche]

Hi I am new on the site and am not looking into doing the professional breeding, etc. just want to have a beautiful tank for my grandchildren to enjoy. I would love to take them off your hands. Thank you.

[magewynd]

Was it a brown?

See post #8

brown based types - Alenquer, Santerem, Red Cover, Virgin Red, non pigeon blood Golden

[Harry Marsh]

Craig's list always works

Free will be an instant give away

I can usually see getting $20

Think of it as a starter discus for someone new.
That is much better than a pet store

[CliffsDiscus]

I farm out some of my Discus to grow out, and some give it away to friends and last donate it to our local Discus Group,
http://badiscus.3.forumer.com/index.php

Cliff

[krislewis3]

The following is a humane way to cull your fish. Take a container Full of water and put it in the freezer, pull it out just before freezing. Put your fish in the icy-cold water! Your fish will experience an instant, humane death...(the toilet bowl rout is most unpleasant for your fish. We are all Gods creatures!!!!!

[fullmonti]

I understand that selective breeding is how/why there is such a variety of beautiful Discus today & why you may not want to breed any but the best to keep it that way. I do not understand why so many seem so willing to flush less than perfect fish rather than give or sell them at a appropriate price to some one who couldn't afford or didn't care if it wasn't first quality. People adopt three legged dogs & one eyed cats & enjoy them just as much as the more perfect pets, maybe more.

Just my opinion.
Jim

[T_om]

I do not understand why so many seem so willing to flush less than perfect fish rather than give or sell them at a appropriate price to some one who couldn't afford or didn't care if it wasn't first quality. People adopt three legged dogs & one eyed cats & enjoy them just as much as the more perfect pets, maybe more.

Because people that adopt three-legged dogs and one-eyed cats do not breed those animals and produce more three-legged dogs and one-eyed cats. Some discus hobbyists on the other hand will breed any junk fish that just happen to pair up... then sell or give away these low quality fish to unsuspecting newbies.

Removing culls from a selective breeding program is what "selective" means.

Tom

[JenTN]

Because people that adopt three-legged dogs and one-eyed cats do not breed those animals and produce more three-legged dogs and one-eyed cats. Some discus hobbyists on the other hand will breed any junk fish that just happen to pair up... then sell or give away these low quality fish to unsuspecting newbies.

Removing culls from a selective breeding program is what "selective" means.

Tom

+1 adding there is a way to spay and neuter cats/dogs so that the responsible/reputable breeders make sure to sell on a spay/neuter contract so poor quality is not further bred. Also shelters spay/neuter and would never advise people to breed furthering their problem. I don't know of a way to alter fish.

[fullmonti]

I agree don't breed them, just try to fine someone who would enjoy having them in their display tank. It sounds like what you guys are saying is you'd rather flush them than take a chance they may breed & enter the market later.

Obviously people are going to do what they want with unwanted fish, just wanted to add my 2 cents.

[T_om]

It sounds like what you guys are saying is you'd rather flush them than take a chance they may breed & enter the market later.

I can't speak for everyone but that is exactly what I, personally, am saying.

Tom

[Matt0matic]

What do you do with unwanted discus? Sushi!

[Greenheinie]

Wasn't Hitler a proponent of selective breeding? Some of your guys' opinions are a bit overboard. They're freaking fish. Breeding less than grade A discus isn't going to lead to the downfall of the species or hobby.

Thank goodness my mother didn't flush me down the toilet or freeze me to death for the sake of a better looking America!

[fullmonti]

Amen!

[JenTN]

Wasn't Hitler a proponent of selective breeding? Some of your guys' opinions are a bit overboard. They're freaking fish. Breeding less than grade A discus isn't going to lead to the downfall of the species or hobby. <br />
<br />
Thank goodness my mother didn't flush me down the toilet or freeze me to death for the sake of a better looking America!

Yes, Hitler was, as well as God, or Mother Nature what have you. In the wild, the fittest, strongest males compete to mate and the weak, slow, & deformed fry/fish get eaten. In tanks, we dont have that so its our job to help. If you take issue with selective breeding, its hard to justify cramming fish into a tank a millionth the size of their natural habitat. If it werent for selective breeding/collecting, I probably wouldnt want to own Discus. You do realize that you can order a couple pieces of fish for a few bucks at Captain D's? You cannot order humans there. Big difference. The only reason we dont eat Discus is because they taste bad. If you have issue with waste, feed them to a cat, cycle of life.Real life isnt like Nemo, the dad would probably have killed Nemo in reality :-)

[fullmonti]

To me the thing I don't get is, some of you here would rather see a fish that you personally don't care for suffocate in a sea of poop or flop around in your front yard rather than let it live out it's days in some ones tank that would enjoy having it. You don't leave room for the possibility that someone else may truly love something you truly dislike. In that respect that kind of thinking is exactly like Hitler. Just because you think something is substandard you wont let it live some where else, you want it wiped off the face of the earth. Lets face it we are not talking about slow or weak fish, we are talking about perfectly heathy fish you personally don't care for.

I have no problem with selective breeding. I appreciate all work so many have done to come up with these beautiful fish. I just bought a bulldog Discus. I love it! I have heard some say that they hate them. They are a deformity and should be done away with. They are not slow, they are not week, they are not unhealthy. You just don't happen to like them. Funny how when a genetic variation is liked it's called selective breeding & when you happen to not like it you call it a deformity & want it killed.

There ar many flavors of ice cream for good reason. We all don't like the same things. I personally don't care for chocolate ice cream, but if I was in charge & banned it there would be a lot of unhappy people in the world.

We wont even talk about the whole blond, brunet & redhead thing!!!

[T_om]

Wasn't Hitler a proponent of selective breeding?

Thank you for providing proof of Godwin's Law.

Tom

[Skip]

Thank you for providing proof of Godwin's Law.

Tom

HAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!! no kidding!!! LOL

[yim11]

Thank you for providing proof of Godwin's Law.

Tom

LMFAO!

[Greenheinie]

Ha...that IS pretty funny. I never heard of that before. In this case though, I think it's a fair comparison.

Anyway, can somebody close this thread? Let's agree to disagree before things get ugly.

[fullmonti]

Thank you for providing proof of Godwin's Law.

Tom

Very convenient one-liner. Exactly why I didn't use that comparison first. But what about all the other points made, examples given & question ask???

What about statements made about fish should be flushed not because they are slower, weak, or unhealthy, but just because you don't like some part of their color or shape? Even though there are many, thousands in some cases of people who think their color or shape is wonderful. What about a little open minedness to the possibility that there might be more than way to look at things???

[Skip]

Ha...that IS pretty funny. I never heard of that before. In this case though, I think it's a fair comparison.

Anyway, can somebody close this thread? Let's agree to disagree before things get ugly.

why close it..?!

culling is part of the process for breeders.. :)

[fullmonti]

Of course culling is part of the process. If you are a breeder trying to get a bright red fish, all the babies that are a dull orange are going to become feeders. Like many things, it's not always what you say but often how you say it that offends. Comments like that breed or color or type of fish are freaks, ugly or deformities & should all be destroyed seem to narrow-minded at least. Can we leave room for the possibility that others opinions are just as valid as our own. "I personally don't care for that breed/type of fish" will work just fine. Give it a try some time.

Jim

[krislewis3]

Doesn't anyone out there care for the humaine way to cull???? I posted this humane method earlier in this thread!!

[Skip]

Doesn't anyone out there care for the humaine way to cull???? I posted this humane method earlier in this thread!!

i had to cull some small sick fish a few times..

put them in garbage disposal.. turn it on.. QUICK and FAST! :)

[John_Nicholson]

LOL...that was funny.

Now back to the question on hand. Anyone that breeds animals that is not in it to improve the breed needs to get out. If you are not willing to cull the crappy fish then you have become part of the problem and not the cure. Lets compare this to say puppy mills....People are always *****ing about puppy mills....but that is exactly what you are asking people to do here...its idiotic. If it is not a quality fish then kill it.

I understand where you are coming from...it is a place of ignorance. You mean well but in reality you do not have a clue. How many spawns have you raised? My guess would be zero. If I am wrong tell me.....Now go breed/raise/sale several thousand discus and then come back and post when you have some first hand knowledge on the subject.

I am not trying to be a arse but one of the problems anymore is people get on the forum and start throwing out advice/opinions that they have no clue about. I am all for educated opinions...it is the ignorant ones that bother me.

-john

[Greenheinie]

See above post for what I meant about closing the thread before things get ugly.

There's really no need to attack me or others and talk about ignorance and not having a clue. As a longtime member of this board, you should have a little more respect for others, and especially Al. Share your educated opinion instead of bashing others.

[JenTN]

LOL...that was funny.

Now back to the question on hand. Anyone that breeds animals that is not in it to improve the breed needs to get out. If you are not willing to cull the crappy fish then you have become part of the problem and not the cure. Lets compare this to say puppy mills....People are always *****ing about puppy mills....but that is exactly what you are asking people to do here...its idiotic. If it is not a quality fish then kill it.

I understand where you are coming from...it is a place of ignorance. You mean well but in reality you do not have a clue. How many spawns have you raised? My guess would be zero. If I am wrong tell me.....Now go breed/raise/sale several thousand discus and then come back and post when you have some first hand knowledge on the subject.

I am not trying to be a arse but one of the problems anymore is people get on the forum and start throwing out advice/opinions that they have no clue about. I am all for educated opinions...it is the ignorant ones that bother me.

-john

Arse. :-p

[Skip]

every one will handle their discus the way they want.. it just depend how dedicated you are to your principles of breeding

[kensacco]

You could gift them to me! ;)

I'm only half-joking...

[kensacco]

I always fulsh them down the stool. Had one that was to big to flush and after many attemps my wife made me put it back in the tank, still there a year and half later Jerry

I hope you plan on paying for a new monitor for me now....:p

[kensacco]

i had to cull some small sick fish a few times..

put them in garbage disposal.. turn it on.. QUICK and FAST! :)

Umm, ouch!

[fullmonti]

LOL...that was funny.

Now back to the question on hand. Anyone that breeds animals that is not in it to improve the breed needs to get out. If you are not willing to cull the crappy fish then you have become part of the problem and not the cure. Lets compare this to say puppy mills....People are always *****ing about puppy mills....but that is exactly what you are asking people to do here...its idiotic. If it is not a quality fish then kill it.

I understand where you are coming from...it is a place of ignorance. You mean well but in reality you do not have a clue. How many spawns have you raised? My guess would be zero. If I am wrong tell me.....Now go breed/raise/sale several thousand discus and then come back and post when you have some first hand knowledge on the subject.

I am not trying to be a arse but one of the problems anymore is people get on the forum and start throwing out advice/opinions that they have no clue about. I am all for educated opinions...it is the ignorant ones that bother me.

-john

I don't have to have raised a thousand spawns to have a valid opinion as to what a quality fish is "to me". One of the points I was trying to make is, it is very arrogant to think that ones own opinion is the only one that could possibly be correct. What one person would call a quality fish may not be what the next person would call a quality fish, that does not make one of them ignorant, just two different people.

Greenheinie
You may be right. There seems little reason to continue this.

Jim

[John_Nicholson]

LOL...I did not attack anyone. I offered a diffferrent opinion then yours and stated my reasons. The fact still remains that you are lacking in experience. All that I am saying is to gain the experience and then your opinions will be more valid.

Jerry Clower use to have a saying that went something like this.......I travel all around the world and everywhere that I go someone will always come up to me and say they have a plan to make things better. And all of their plans have one thing in common....It never requires them to change anything that they are doing...


Same thing here....you don't raise discus. You don't have thousands of dollars invested in raising discus, but you want to say that it is wrong for people to cull discus of marginal quality. If it had any direct effect on you I think your opinion would change.

Also the definition of ignorance is as follows from Websters " the state or fact of being ignorant : lack of knowledge, education, or awareness ". I was not calling you dumb, it was not a personal atttack, I was simply stating that you did not have the experience to realize that any breeders goal has to be to produce the very best discus that they can. That means culling and culling heavily.

Also I did not post anything that is offensive. If you choice to be offended then that is on you. If you are going to get upset anytime someone has a different opinion then you then you might be happier if you did nto share your opinion. Less chance of you getting your feeling hurt. Now if anyone wants to keep discussing this I am all for it. I am not mad or upset with anyone. I do not take offense just because someone else has a different view then mine...in fact I like to have in depth and spirited discussions. Now we can agree to disagree, become friends, dislike each other, debate it, meet at NADA and discuss it...does not matter to me. Its up to ya'll.

-john

[lipadj46]

A quality fish is easy to quantify, it is not an opinion, there are standards just like with dog breeds. Breeders don't want there culls out there with their names associated with them. Culling is part of the hobby if you don't like it don't breed your fish or join the ranks of those people shoveling deformed crappy fish to those who don't know better.

[dprais1]

I have a couple of fish I'm not very happy with...poor shape, lots of peppering. I know that I am unsatisfied with these fish. When and if it comes time for them to go then they will be humanely destroyed. I was happy with them when I didn't know any better now I do. Why would I sell or give a substandard fish to another person new to the hobby when I realize once they know more they will also be unhappy with the fish.

I personally don't see the point in shuffling problems around and I agree with the issue of breeding. If my fish were to spawn I would have a real hard time destroying all the fry even if the parent fish were poor quality because I've never raised fry before. If I had all excellent fish then it wouldn't even be an issue.

[Skip]

My idea of quality has changed in two years of having discus... Aa does every one else.. If one feels different.. then revisit this thread in 2 years.. :)

[fullmonti]

My feelings are not hurt at all. I have said I understand that culling is part of selective breeding. I am discouraged that I can't seem to get this one point across. For example, I just bought a bulldog Discus & like it very much! I read more than one comment of people saying they are ugly to a deformity & they all should be done away with. Not an exact quote but close enough. When people say they think something is substandard, weird or undesirable & that it should not be allowed to exist. That attitude of, if I don't like it no one should be allowed to have it, even if they think it's the greatest thing they have every seen. That attitude of your judgment of what is or is not quality or desirable is better than the next guys, to the point you want to remove the choice from them, that I find arrogant.

I am self employed so I understand business. I understand wanting to put out a quality product (hate thinking of living things being a product, but thats the way it is). I also understand that sometimes my opinion of what is a quality look isn't the same as my clients idea of what a quality look is. I have no problem giving them what they want. I wish you guys that I assume are breeders, would be a little bit willing to acknowledge that some of the fish you don't care for may be loved by others.

You say there are standards for Discus just like dog breeding. True, also true is there are many many people who would much rather have a mutt because the breeders have breed the brains or personality out of dogs in favor of a certain color or look.

I do appreciate the you are willing to give something more than a one-liner response.

Jim

[Skip]

Yikes... I like my discus round.

Some breeders cull the round ones and keep bulldogs... Yikes..

2 sentences

[fullmonti]

My idea of quality has changed in two years of having discus... Aa does every one else.. If one feels different.. then revisit this thread in 2 years.. :)

Your right my idea of what I want in my tank will probably change over time. My point is, as I change what I think quality is, I doubt I will want to remove those choices from others.

Jim

[fullmonti]

Yikes... I like my discus round.

Some breeders cull the round ones and keep bulldogs... Yikes..

2 sentences

This is a great example of choices. And two sentences too, even better!

Thanks

[fullmonti]

I thought of a better way to illustrate the point I've be trying to make.

Dogs shows! People watch to see all the beautiful dogs. Every one wants to see who wins first place. On a scale of 1-100 the first place dog may have a score of 93 & the third place dog may have a 89. Both beautiful dogs no doubt, with only tiny differences between them. Do you think people all over the world look at their dog & say, Max or Spot what ever wouldn't even get a score of 65, he is a very poor quality dog. I need to shoot him & bury him in the back yard. NO! Because they love max for totally different reasons than why the dog that won first place, won first place.

The Discus rating system that has evolved is much the same, I think. You guys (the ones in the know) have gotten together over time & decided the the shape should be just so, eyes should be a certain size, the color should be just a certain shade, on & on. Any fish that deviates from this list of requirements is deemed unworthy & should be killed. Just like the dog show all that is fine, FOR YOU. My point is not every one knows or cares or agrees with your list of requirements. Show a 100 people a tank with 100 colorful healthy Discus & I'm sure there would be a hand full of fish most would choice. Those would be the price wining very expensive fish that most would like but few could afford. Some fish would be chosen precisely because of a different shape or color or because they had bigger eyes or what ever. Does that make those people ignorant of your list of rules? YES, does that make their choice wrong? I say know, that makes their choice of what they like their choice.

Thats why I say I think the attitude that ones own judgment of what is or is not good quality is all knowing & the only possible choice is very flawed at the very least.

Let me say I think it's great that we have a place like this to share ideas and or argue about things we enjoy or believe in.

Jim

[brewmaster15]

Hi all,
Heres my take on this... You need to draw the distinction between what is a cull and what is your average quality fish and finally what is show quality. A cull is deformed fish....short gill plates, mishapen face, bent dorsal fins...etc. These fish should be culled.. Not just because they are deformed and may breed that genetic weakness and pass it on to other fish, but because often times these fish are also weaker. This means that they pose a threat as carriers of diseases. Inevitably disease takes hold in the weakest members first. Some people will broaden this description to include any offspring that don't have the desired patterns,peppering, and colors they sought.That one depends on the breeder though, some breeders see a bigger picture than others with regards to the potential use of a particular color trait.... I've culled many fish over the years...its something I feel the need to do as a responsible hobbyis and breeder.

Average fish...you can't tell the genetics of the average fish by looking at them.They don't look bad, they don't look great, they just are. Most of the members here probably have many average fish.. I would suspect many would look like the original posters fish here. An average fish may be perfectly fine to breed genetically, but perhaps didn't grow to its full potential because of environmental shortcomings...maybe it was crowded, raised in sub optimal conditions like a heavily planted tank can pose.

Show grade fish... They are just that ..show grade, the cream of the crop...the best representatives possible.

just my thoughts...
-al

[Skip]

Thats why I say I think the attitude that ones own judgment of what is or is not good quality is all knowing & the only possible choice is very flawed at the very least.

Let me say I think it's great that we have a place like this to share ideas and or argue about things we enjoy or believe in.

Jim

jim.. i understand what you are saying..

but i would like to use another analogy..

car salesman..

do you think the saleman is going to get you the best car possible..?! nope..

they are going give you the best deal that makes them the most money.. BUT at same times makes you think you are getting deal, which you never do.. LOL

BUT if you dont' know any better.. then its your fault..

discus are not cheap.. and if you are going to pay that money, you should get the quality you are paying for.. some people buy the fish in the "WHAT NOT TO BUY THREAD" for the same price if not more, then what Beals, Kenny or Hans have..
do you think that is fair for the discus consumer.. ?

i think its fair, as john, was saying and what you are saying..

we have PUPPY MILL DISCUS BREEDERS and Quality Discus Breeders.. i just want EVERYONE to have a QUALITY FISH.. BUT it really comes down to whether you are educated as a consumer, since there is no one else to blame what ones self.. ie. buying Discus or Cars..

i don't breed discus.. but when i do.. i will have to cull, cuz i won't have the time nor resources to have fish that are not to my liking.. i will just NATURALLY SELECT>.

however, if i see a bulldog.. i will ship it to you :) :) :)

[John_Nicholson]

Jim I am glad that you said the following "I am self employed so I understand business. I understand wanting to put out a quality product". Many, many years ago when someone would get say 6 small discus from me I would often give then 1 or 2 culls. Usually slow growers. I would tell them that in every group of discus someone will be on the bottom so instead of it being 1 of the 6 good discus it would now probably be one of the 2 culls that I had thrown in. Now they were healthy so everyone wins right?....Nope a couple of issue kept popping up. First a year or two down the road they would want to take pictures of their discus and post on the new forums that were popping up. They loved their fish and wanted to help me out by telling everyone where they got their fish. While they were showing the nice ones those 2 damned culls always seemed to be in the background. Now I knew what was going on but potential new customers had no clue. Second problem would arise if the person decided to get out of discus. They were not going to cull their discus ..they would just bag them up and take them to a club auction. While it has changed now back then if there was a discus in the auction 95% of the people there would assume it was from me. From a business stand point it became obvious quickly that the best thing to do with culls ( which includes slow growers ) was to cull them.

This is a issue that also affects other animals....Lets take horses for example. The average American thinks that horses are some sort of noble animal...also the average American has never owned, cared for, or been exposed to horses in any real manner. In the past horses that were old, crippled, unwanted (because of low quality or just too mean to deal with) went to the slaughter house. This put a floor on the horse market. No matter how bad a horse was it could still be sold by the pound. Now a few years ago some well meaning people who had no clue decided that it was wrong to slaughter horse. They managed to get all of the slaughter houses shut down. Great that had stopped the barbaric practice of slaughter in horses. Problem.....what do we now do with all of these unwanted horses....They had made a decision based on emotions, not based on facts or experience....At first the few animal rights organizations that really try to help animals( which by the way is a very, very small percentage of them ) tried to take these horses in. Very quickly they became full and some went broke trying to feed these horse that now have no market value, horses that no one wanted. Quickly most auctions quit taking horse. No one would bid on them and the owners would not pick them up, so now the auction had to feed and care for them. so they now had money issues. So where are we now....most of these unwanted horses are now in some form of neglect. They are in a far worse place now then they would have ever been in the past. Even some state agencies are looking the other way...if they "see" the problem then they have to take action and then they now have to take care of the horse for the rest of its life...a animal that no one wants and has no has no purpose on this planet. All it does is consume resources that could have been better used in other places, for other purposes. So some well meaning but inexperienced people have managed to greatly increase the suffering of horses, caused some animal rights groups to shut down( so its not all bad...LOL ), caused hardships on some of the auction houses, shut down an industry that was making money and providing jobs( both the slaughter houses and many horse breeders ), and have caused some of the limited resources to be allocated to animals that no one will ever want...............Man you have to love a well thought out plan.....

-john

[Skip]

Horse is too big for me to cull in garbage disposal

[JenTN]

Horse is too big for me to cull in garbage disposal

Man Skip, you made me spit out Coke!

[Cevoe]

This is one of the best threads I have seen in a while.
I especially appreciate Nicholson's insight in post 57 but there are a lot of nuggets throughout.

[magewynd]

Flush it. Shipping is expensive too.

Horse is too big for me to cull in garbage disposal

[JenTN]

Anthropomorphism is going to be the downfall of humanity. My mom remembers sneaking to watch her grandmother wring the chickens' necks. That would probably be considered inhumane and child abuse now LOL. Chickens have feelings to and that hoo-hah!

[Skip]

Man Skip, you made me spit out Coke!

+1

[brewmaster15]

Many, many years ago when someone would get say 6 small discus from me I would often give then 1 or 2 culls. Usually slow growers. I would tell them that in every group of discus someone will be on the bottom so instead of it being 1 of the 6 good discus it would now probably be one of the 2 culls that I had thrown in. Now they were healthy so everyone wins right?....Nope a couple of issue kept popping up. First a year or two down the road they would want to take pictures of their discus and post on the new forums that were popping up. They loved their fish and wanted to help me out by telling everyone where they got their fish. While they were showing the nice ones those 2 damned culls always seemed to be in the background. Now I knew what was going on but potential new customers had no clue.
had that happen to me as well...even after explaining to them that I did not ever want to see those fish again and why.
-al

[John_Nicholson]

LOL...Skip your killing me......

-john

[Chicago Discus]

Its funny one guy contacted me and asked me for my Culls I promptly said no. Why would someone want your culls I just think thats weird .......Josie

[John_Nicholson]

Nothing good can come of that. You did the right thing by saying no.

-john

[Skip]

Its funny one guy contacted me and asked me for my Culls I promptly said no. Why would someone want your culls I just think thats weird .......Josie

they think a DISCUS is a DISCUS.. if you buy a cull.. its a cheap way to get a Discus like you see in the BOOKS and INTERNET

[Chicago Discus]

He was like "your just going to kill them anyway" and I kept saying but there is a reason why I'm culling them he just didn't get it LOL

[JenTN]

Its funny one guy contacted me and asked me for my Culls I promptly said no. Why would someone want your culls I just think thats weird .......Josie

It was probably Skip wanting to do some of his weird garbage disposal experiments.

[Skip]

It was probably Skip wanting to do some of his weird garbage disposal experiments.

if they do not FIT *in garbage disposal*.. I must Acquit!

http://cycling-review.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/07/OJ-Simpson-glove.jpg

[Chad Adams]

Its funny one guy contacted me and asked me for my Culls I promptly said no. Why would someone want your culls I just think thats weird .......Josie

Good for you Josie. That was the right decision.

Chad

[Second Hand Pat]

John is totally correct about the issues with horses. Also have the same problem with horses you have with discus or puppy mills. Lots of backyard breeders breeding for money vs quality. Also costs a pretty penny to put down a horse, upwards of $800 between vet and disposal.

[fullmonti]

john

I agree 100% on two of your points.

I am a commercial photographer. Long ago some one wanted me to do a quick & dirty job that was going to be used in a small unimportant publication. So I accommodated them & did the job with the old high speed (crapy) film. They used it in the unimportant pub, but then some how it started showing up every where. I was embarrassed for people to see it & maybe find out I did it. I set limits for my self as to how far I would go in cutting corners for a client after that.

The other point is about the horses. We have horses! When people ask me about my retirement, I say my retirement is eating out in the pasture. We have no problem with horses going to the slaughter house. As long as it is done humanly, which of course some did not. Your right, old, mean, poor & unwanted horse left this world, & left room for the rest to live a better life. We are worse off for the loss of the horse slaughter houses.

Selective breeding is a touchy complicated subject. I said all along I understood some culling is part of the process. It seems to me the Discus powers that be have set a very very narrow set of objective. Most are purely aesthetic & have nothing to do with the ability of the fish to be active & healthy. I hate it! when this is carried out to the point that people say I think this or that about a other wise healthy fish is ugly or what ever, and they should all be killed. To advocate the wholesale killing of something simply because you personally don't like it, especially when you know there are others who do like it that you could sell them to, seems to be narrow minded, unnecessarily hash, & bad business. I like post #51 (sorry warlock to use your post to illustrate a point you may not agree with). Also liked post #55, not to illustrate any thing just because.

I'm glad we got so many to speak up on this subject. I feel there were many good point made, hope you do too. I fear if I say much more I would be beating a dead horse ha ha.

Again glad we have SD. It is great!

Jim

[John_Nicholson]

Narrow minded...hum....I can take that. I promise I have been called a lot worse....LOL.

As a breeder I feel that I have to try and produce a quality animal...how many faults can a fish have before they fall below the quality line? That is a decision that each individual has to make on their own. What I have found though the years are that the ones that hold that mark high seem to stay around and the ones that are willing to peddle in the lower quality ones seem to disappear in short order.

-john

[Skip]

Selective breeding is a touchy complicated subject. I said all along I understood some culling is part of the process. It seems to me the Discus powers that be have set a very very narrow set of objective. Most are purely aesthetic & have nothing to do with the ability of the fish to be active & healthy. I hate it! when this is carried out to the point that people say I think this or that about a other wise healthy fish is ugly or what ever, and they should all be killed.

I like post #51 (sorry warlock to use your post to illustrate a point you may not agree with).

LOL!! just ask the BULL DOG breeders.. they cry EVERY year that there should be a STANDARD they can enter their fish.. lol.. but they can't.. DISCUS powers fill a Discus should look like this..

http://www.outdoorfunstores.com/sports/IMAGES/TR097P.jpg

[fullmonti]

You are quick & funny!

[Skip]

You are quick & funny!

its a slight flaw in my character

[JenTN]

You are quick & funny!

That's what his girlfriend said...

[John_Nicholson]

That's what his girlfriend said...

no she just said quick.....

-john

[Skip]

That's what his girlfriend said...

All three of them .. got to get them water changes in

http://jieli1985.files.wordpress.com/2012/03/cheshire-cat.jpg

[Skip]

no she just said quick.....

-john

well.. sounds like SHE needs to hurry up

[kensacco]

My feelings are not hurt at all. I have said I understand that culling is part of selective breeding. I am discouraged that I can't seem to get this one point across. For example, I just bought a bulldog Discus & like it very much! I read more than one comment of people saying they are ugly to a deformity & they all should be done away with. Not an exact quote but close enough. When people say they think something is substandard, weird or undesirable & that it should not be allowed to exist. That attitude of, if I don't like it no one should be allowed to have it, even if they think it's the greatest thing they have every seen. That attitude of your judgment of what is or is not quality or desirable is better than the next guys, to the point you want to remove the choice from them, that I find arrogant.

I am self employed so I understand business. I understand wanting to put out a quality product (hate thinking of living things being a product, but thats the way it is). I also understand that sometimes my opinion of what is a quality look isn't the same as my clients idea of what a quality look is. I have no problem giving them what they want. I wish you guys that I assume are breeders, would be a little bit willing to acknowledge that some of the fish you don't care for may be loved by others.

You say there are standards for Discus just like dog breeding. True, also true is there are many many people who would much rather have a mutt because the breeders have breed the brains or personality out of dogs in favor of a certain color or look.

I do appreciate the you are willing to give something more than a one-liner response.

Jim

I'm in complete agreement with you Jim, and I can best sum it up this way: I'll be willing to be that I might consider the Significant Others of some of these posters to be 'substandard' by my tastes. Should we cull their children? Morbid, yes, but precisely the point you're trying to get across.

[lipadj46]

I'm in complete agreement with you Jim, and I can best sum it up this way: I'll be willing to be that I might consider the Significant Others of some of these posters to be 'substandard' by my tastes. Should we cull their children? Morbid, yes, but precisely the point you're trying to get across.

comparing culling ugly fish to culling ugly children is getting a bit over the top melodramatic.

[fullmonti]

comparing culling ugly fish to culling ugly children is getting a bit over the top melodramatic.

Probably, but once you get past the melodrama the principle is the same. Every one has there own idea of what ugly is, & what should be done about it. This thread has proven that!

[Skip]

All gingers should be culled for sure

[lipadj46]

All gingers should be culled for sure

I think we can all agree on that point

[John_Nicholson]

"I'm in complete agreement with you Jim, and I can best sum it up this way: I'll be willing to be that I might consider the Significant Others of some of these posters to be 'substandard' by my tastes. Should we cull their children? Morbid, yes, but precisely the point you're trying to get across. "

If you really feel this way...even a little bit you need to seek help from a mental health professional. Comparing a fish with the brain smaller then a pencil eraser to the life of a child is beyond messed up....

-john

[fullmonti]

Note the question mark at the end of the sentence, "Should we cull their children?" It was a question Not a statement of believe.

[John_Nicholson]

I saw the question mark, but still think it is an absurd thing to say or ask.

-john

[Skip]

If you really feel this way...even a little bit you need to seek help from a mental health professional. Comparing a fish with the brain smaller then a pencil eraser to the life of a child is beyond messed up....

-john

i don't have any kids that i know of.. but when i do have some.. if they are not as cute as my NIECES.. i will sell them to the LFS for Store credit.. i don't want stunted or big eye bulldog kids and be that guy with ugly kids and everybody knows it except me..

[John_Nicholson]

i don't have any kids that i know of.. but when i do have some.. if they are not as cute as my NIECES.. i will sell them to the LFS for Store credit.. i don't want stunted or big eye bulldog kids and be that guy with ugly kids and everybody knows it except me..

If that is how you feel I suggest you use a sperm donor......LOL.

-john

[Chad Adams]

I saw the question mark, but still think it is an absurd thing to say or ask.
-john

Totally agree. This is worse than bringing in a Nazi comparison.
The "Shock Value" of the comparison does not even come close to lending value to this discussion.


Probably, but once you get past the melodrama the principle is the same. Every one has there own idea of what ugly is, & what should be done about it. This thread has proven that!
Sorry Jim. I know you didn't say it, but that was way off point and ridiculous.

Chad

[fullmonti]

I have fond this whole topic rather sad & a little scary. The sad part is, there really is no good alternative to some culling & no practical alternative to some other culling. The scary part is, the people who really do feel their opinion/judgement of what is acceptable is the only one that is correct & that any one who has a different set of standards or opinions is wrong and or ignorant. It's also sad if they may actually see that someone else may have a differing view point with some merit, but wont actually admit it.

I really do appreciate knowing that many of you seem to feel this way, that you took the time to talk about it.

Jim

[Chad Adams]

I have fond this whole topic rather sad & a little scary. The sad part is, there really is no good alternative to some culling & no practical alternative to some other culling. The scary part is, the people who really do feel their opinion/judgement of what is acceptable is the only one that is correct & that any one who has a different set of standards or opinions is wrong and or ignorant. It's also sad if they may actually see that someone else may have a differing view point with some merit, but wont actually admit it.
I really do appreciate knowing that many of you seem to feel this way, that you took the time to talk about it.
Jim

Jim,
I think you're a real good sport and I believe you think things through. What would be great is for this to be a topic of
discussion some night at the show in Atlanta in June. Things would go much better person to person I believe. I look forward to seeing
you at my house on the 29th buddy.

Chad

[lipadj46]

Jim,
I look forward to seeing you at my house on the 29th buddy.
Chad

Hope you don't have ugly children...

[Skip]

Hope you don't have ugly children...

now that is some funny stuff!! LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!

[fullmonti]

Hope you don't have ugly children...

TO LATE!

[fullmonti]

On a lighter note
























Do You Know What Spike Says?



























http://i673.photobucket.com/albums/vv100/fullmontitog/spike-1.png

BULLDOGS RULE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[fullmonti]

Jim,
I think you're a real good sport and I believe you think things through. What would be great is for this to be a topic of
discussion some night at the show in Atlanta in June. Things would go much better person to person I believe. I look forward to seeing
you at my house on the 29th buddy.

Chad

Thank You!

Yep CU there.

[fullmonti]

That fish cracks me up!

[strawberryblonde]

All gingers should be culled for sure

Oh no you DIDN'T say that!? Humph!!

[Chad Adams]

I have the most beautiful children in the world.

and... I would never compare them to discus.

Chad

[John_Nicholson]

Oh no you DIDN'T say that!? Humph!!


LOL.

-john

[MostlyDiscus]

Classic example of breeders(some advanced) vs hobbist. Half of the posts should be in the breeder section and the other half should be warlocks bed room. John as always you crack me up. Too many times folks come over and want to buy discus and get a discount. I tell them that certain ones are not for sale(after they seem to pick them for the bag) and then they ask why not? "its a cull and will be destroyed after you leave". "oh well if your going to kill it can I buy it for half price"?(or ask for free) NO NO NO NO NO a thousand x NO. The reason there are 5 no's is due to the fact that some folks stay for an hour and buy 1 fish every ten minutes and inbetween ask to buy the culls for more and more money. The fact that culling comes up here and should be in the breeder section is a valid point. Out of all the breeders here how many have raised 4 generations of a simular line without crosses? If so I would love to see the offspring. This guy wanted a change(or step up his game plan) and rather than killing his pets he wanted to offload them in a caring way. Al had the best idea IMHO.
Pets are loved, breeders breed. GL finding a home for your pets. For the record I have gotten too 3 generations and culled most of the 3rd Generation because I was so unimpressed with the results. Just saying, Ed

[MostlyDiscus]

P.S. I love gingers. You are loved SB

[Skip]

P.S. I love gingers. You are loved SB

suck up!

[fullmonti]

I half way expected that when I came back there would be a red circle with a diagonal line through the pic of Spike.

[fullmonti]

http://i673.photobucket.com/albums/vv100/fullmontitog/Dspike.jpg

Better?

eye too big still?

[John_Nicholson]

I half way expected that when I came back there would be a red circle with a diagonal line through the pic of Spike.

I started to but you are such a nice guy that I stopped.....LOL.

-john

[Chicago Discus]

I have the most beautiful children in the world.

and... I would never compare them to discus.

Chad
+1 I totally agree Chad...

Comparing children to discus is just strange where do some of these comments come from................Josie

[John_Nicholson]

Classic example of breeders(some advanced) vs hobbist. Half of the posts should be in the breeder section and the other half should be warlocks bed room. John as always you crack me up. Too many times folks come over and want to buy discus and get a discount. I tell them that certain ones are not for sale(after they seem to pick them for the bag) and then they ask why not? "its a cull and will be destroyed after you leave". "oh well if your going to kill it can I buy it for half price"?(or ask for free) NO NO NO NO NO a thousand x NO. The reason there are 5 no's is due to the fact that some folks stay for an hour and buy 1 fish every ten minutes and inbetween ask to buy the culls for more and more money. The fact that culling comes up here and should be in the breeder section is a valid point. Out of all the breeders here how many have raised 4 generations of a simular line without crosses? If so I would love to see the offspring. This guy wanted a change(or step up his game plan) and rather than killing his pets he wanted to offload them in a caring way. Al had the best idea IMHO.
Pets are loved, breeders breed. GL finding a home for your pets. For the record I have gotten too 3 generations and culled most of the 3rd Generation because I was so unimpressed with the results. Just saying, Ed


Thanks Ed, but I am afraid that sometimes people miss my attempts at humor...LOL.

-john

[JenTN]

+1 I totally agree Chad...

Comparing children to discus is just strange where do some of these comments come from................Josie

What do you mean? Hans sent me both my children, and they just love Al's fdbw!!! Culling kids is hard though, reaaallly stops up that garbage disposal. Think hunger games is a much better idea.

[John_Nicholson]

What do you mean? Hans sent me both my children, and they just love Al's fdbw!!! Culling kids is hard though, reaaallly stops up that garbage disposal. Think hunger games is a much better idea.

Good movie and even better books....I am on the last one now.

-john

[JenTN]

Good movie and even better books....I am on the last one now.

-john

Haven't seen the movie, just finished the first book today. Loved it.

[fullmonti]

I started to but you are such a nice guy that I stopped.....LOL.

-john

Hey I don't mind some one making a little fun of me & my ways. Long as I know it's all in fun, I can live with knowing on some level you may mean some part of it. I poke fun at my best buddy all the time. Even though much of the time he doesn't know what to make of it.

Jim

[Skip]

Hey I don't mind some one making a little fun of me & my ways. Long as I know it's all in fun, I can live with knowing on some level you may mean some part of it. I poke fun at my best buddy all the time. Even though much of the time he doesn't know what to make of it.

Jim

BRO MANCE!!

http://i3.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/original/000/007/089/bromance.jpg

and you wanted this THREAD CLOSED!

[John_Nicholson]

Skip sounds to me like your jealous...LOL.

-john

[Skip]

Skip sounds to me like your jealous...LOL.

-john

NO!

http://i.istockimg.com/file_thumbview_approve/9476981/2/stock-photo-9476981-little-girl-pouting.jpg

[MostlyDiscus]

NO!

http://i.istockimg.com/file_thumbview_approve/9476981/2/stock-photo-9476981-little-girl-pouting.jpgLMAO

[JenTN]

Haha..this is so funny. Went to Home Depot for a piece of pipe. Guy asks if its for plumbing...I say no..mom tells him its for fish. So we have a 15 minute disccussion on how Discus breed ( me telling him this is my first attempt). He asks how many in a spawn, how much they sell for, I can see $$$ in his head as hes calculating lol. I tell him they arent cheap fish to start and you have to cull hard. He says CULL???? HOW?? I say cat, sharp knife, etc. He looks @ me like Im crazy, tells me Im.running a fish mill, like a puppy mill lol.

[dprais1]

I have thinking about this thread a lot these past few days. I'm thinking what has the exact proportion of protein, fat, carbs, etc that a discus needs? A chopped up discus.

Why not take all the culls and add them to our food processors and skip the cod or salmon in our recipes? This benefits the hobby in so many ways. gets rid of the poor quality, strengthens the good quality, improves our financial situation and will prevent that 'fishy' smell in the garbage disposal.

[Skip]

i don't think you want the bones to get in there..

[dprais1]

good point

[fullmonti]

I have thinking about this thread a lot these past few days. I'm thinking what has the exact proportion of protein, fat, carbs, etc that a discus needs? A chopped up discus.

Why not take all the culls and add them to our food processors and skip the cod or salmon in our recipes? This benefits the hobby in so many ways. gets rid of the poor quality, strengthens the good quality, improves our financial situation and will prevent that 'fishy' smell in the garbage disposal.



I too have continued to think about all of this (no big surprise there). Your right if culled fish could inter the food chain it would seem to make more sense, & not be such a waste.

By the way when I said we are worse off for the loss of the horse slaughter houses. I should have added, I never heard any one ever say I think all those spotted horses are ugly & they all should be taken to the slaughter house.

[JenTN]

I too have continued to think about all of this (no big surprise there). Your right if culled fish could inter the food chain it would seem to make more sense, & not be such a waste.

By the way when I said we are worse off for the loss of the horse slaughter houses. I should have added, I never heard any one ever say I think all those spotted horses are ugly & they all should be taken to the slaughter house.

My culls will go to my sisters cat ;-)

[dprais1]

If I ever decide to breed discus I'm going to get a nice Mata mata turtle to take care of the job.

[T_om]

i don't think you want the bones to get in there..

Um, I have never heard of a fish in the wild insisting on boneless fillets when dining on other fish. Exactly how are fishbones going to hurt a fish whose natural diet includes other fish?

Tom

[Skip]

Um, I have never heard of a fish in the wild insisting on boneless fillets when dining on other fish. Exactly how are fishbones going to hurt a fish whose natural diet includes other fish?

Tom

Tom last time I checked. Fish in wild dont eat bh mix either..

Re read what my answer was addressing.. Questiion was adding culled discus in a mix.. to feed discus

[plecocicho]

Feeding siblings to the omnivore fish, which never eats its kind in nature can be very dangerous, from inffection of various fish parasites to the mad cow disease syndrome. Just dont do it!

[Skip]

Feeding siblings to the omnivore fish, which never eats its kind in nature can be very dangerous, from inffection of various fish parasites to the mad cow disease syndrome. Just dont do it!

http://www.thecaribbeantradingco.com/product_images/y/mad%20f_medium__51604.jpg

[fullmonti]

You must have a large stock photo file on the ready? Not to mention never being far from the computer.

[Skip]

google images.. its easy..

http://www.oneandfour.org/images/DirkCaveman.jpg

[lipadj46]

http://i470.photobucket.com/albums/rr70/donlipa/nerd.jpg

[Skip]

http://i470.photobucket.com/albums/rr70/donlipa/nerd.jpg

HEY!!! THATS ME!!!!!!!!!!!!

[lipadj46]

exactly lol!!!! one of the funnier episodes too.

[T_om]

Feeding siblings to the omnivore fish, which never eats its kind in nature can be very dangerous, from inffection of various fish parasites to the mad cow disease syndrome. Just dont do it!

Are you saying that Discus in nature never eat smaller Discus? Please give a reliable cite for that remarkable assertion.

Tom

[John_Nicholson]

Are you saying that Discus in nature never eat smaller Discus? Please give a reliable cite for that remarkable assertion.

Tom

Hell parents eat fry all the time.....I think his is just a overreaction to the mad cow scare.

-john

[Cevoe]

Soylent Green

[plecocicho]

I meant adult juvenile discus, not fry eating. Fry eating doesnt have anything with cannibalism per se, like its developed between many predators such as pike or piranhas. My evidence lies in their mouth. Discus mouth is relativelly small and almost teethless. They can eat only things that fit in their mouth, so they are micropredators. sam symptoms were found also by new guina cannabalist. Besides that, why iare no freswater filets in discu mixes? Because of disease transmittion. Its a stupid idea. you have a wide array of saltwater fish, whcih could be used in iyx instead of discus.

[John_Nicholson]

Since I cook my bh mix I have no issues with disease transmission.

-john

[Eddie]

Fertilizer

[krislewis3]

Amen!!!!!!!!! God made lesser animals too!!!! We need to respect all of Gods creatures!!!!

[JenTN]

Fertilizer

I tell you what, my plants have NEVER looked so nice since I started using tank water & dead fish as fertilizer!

[mhx]

clist or give to your LFS

[OCD]

Soylent Green

ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha
slipped that one in there didn't ya....
:D:D:D:D

[LizStreithorst]

I have not yet slogged thourgh this entire thread but this is right on the money.

BTW, the way I kill mine is to slap them down on the concrete. If they flop, I stick a knife in their head. Then I chop them up more and feed them to the plants. As you can see, I have no heart. I'm good at giving back to nature, though.


LOL...that was funny.

Now back to the question on hand. Anyone that breeds animals that is not in it to improve the breed needs to get out. If you are not willing to cull the crappy fish then you have become part of the problem and not the cure. Lets compare this to say puppy mills....People are always *****ing about puppy mills....but that is exactly what you are asking people to do here...its idiotic. If it is not a quality fish then kill it.

I understand where you are coming from...it is a place of ignorance. You mean well but in reality you do not have a clue. How many spawns have you raised? My guess would be zero. If I am wrong tell me.....Now go breed/raise/sale several thousand discus and then come back and post when you have some first hand knowledge on the subject.

I am not trying to be a arse but one of the problems anymore is people get on the forum and start throwing out advice/opinions that they have no clue about. I am all for educated opinions...it is the ignorant ones that bother me.

-john

[LizStreithorst]

Wow. I finally slogged through the whole 10 pages. What a great thread. Perhaps the best I have ever read on Simply. John Nicholson and Ed Most are my heros.

[T_om]

Amen!!!!!!!!! God made lesser animals too!!!! We need to respect all of Gods creatures!!!!

I regret to inform you that you have used up your monthly allotment of exclamation points. Please refrain from using exclamation points until 20 May, 2012. Thank you.

Tom

[John_Nicholson]

I regret to inform you that you have used up your monthly allotment of exclamation points. Please refrain from using exclamation points until 20 May, 2012. Thank you.

Tom

LOL. That was great.

and Liz love you too sweetheart.

-john

[Eddie]

I have not yet slogged thourgh this entire thread but this is right on the money.

BTW, the way I kill mine is to slap them down on the concrete. If they flop, I stick a knife in their head. Then I chop them up more and feed them to the plants. As you can see, I have no heart. I'm good at giving back to nature, though.

I used to slap them down too, like the great Jim Quarles but that took too much effort and my shoulder started bothering me. LOL

[krislewis3]

WOW......someone had lunch with the Dali Lama!!!'

[kensacco]

Good thing I don't feel this way in practice. Regardless, my point is the same. Beauty and 'quality' are in the eyes of the beholder. How about this perspective: Unless you're keeping only 'wild caughts', then you are going against everything you say about the hobby. The only truly 'quality' discus would be a naturally occurring strain.

[yim11]

Good thing I don't feel this way in practice. Regardless, my point is the same. Beauty and 'quality' are in the eyes of the beholder. How about this perspective: Unless you're keeping only 'wild caughts', then you are going against everything you say about the hobby. The only truly 'quality' discus would be a naturally occurring strain.

So based on this "perspective" (and I use that term very loosely here), the only "true" dogs are grey wolves, the only true cats are lions, tigers, cougars. Shall I go on or do you see the point?

[kensacco]

So based on this "perspective" (and I use that term very loosely here), the only "true" dogs are grey wolves, the only true cats are lions, tigers, cougars. Shall I go on or do you see the point?

Your point that man's will and desire should supercede nature? It's crystal clear.

[TNT77]

Your point that man's will and desire should supercede nature? It's crystal clear.
Unless you are living in a mud hut with no man made devices at all...living off only what you can gather from nature I don't think you can really argue about mans will superseding nature. When it comes to domestic strains of animals that is the bottom of the list of what man has done to this planet.

[T_om]

Beauty and 'quality' are in the eyes of the beholder.

Sigh. I respectfully disagree. There have been many, MANY very closely vetted scientific studies regarding beauty in humans... across many cultures and races. And there is, indeed, an inherent "standard" for beauty in human beings.

As for either wild or domestic animals, there are certainly standards there too. There are mis-shaped or otherwise deformed members of any species group. From Clydesdales to Cuttlefish. These are not thus categorized merely on a whim.

But the entire argument grows tiresome.

Carry on.

Tom

[fullmonti]

Tom every thing you just said is true. Even the part about it growing tiresome. It is also true odd & mis shaped humans are loved in some ones eyes just the same. Just because a thing doesn't fall within the popular view of what it should look like, doesn't mean it doesn't have value to some.

[yim11]

Tom every thing you just said is true. Even the part about it growing tiresome. It is also true odd & mis shaped humans are loved in some ones eyes just the same. Just because a thing doesn't fall within the popular view of what it should look like, doesn't mean it doesn't have value to some.

You just won Skip and I $20!!!! THANKS!

[fullmonti]

I said I would not bring it up, not that I would never make a comment. And it was a short polite comment. And I knew that would come.

[fullmonti]

Apparently there was some kind of wager made? I hope there was couple of laughs had from it? Because what a fish looks like shouldn't be this big a deal.

Good-night all

[krislewis3]

WOW.......I think all you guys must be lunching with the Dalai Lama!!!!!!!

[Bill63SG]

Apparently there was some kind of wager made? I hope there was couple of laughs had from it? Because what a fish looks like shouldn't be this big a deal.

Good-night allWhat a fish looks like shouldn't be that big a deal?And your on a discus board?

[Eti]

Thank you for providing proof of Godwin's Law.

Tom

I can not believe that Hitler was mentioned in a discus forum...

[John_Nicholson]

Been a long time since I read this entire thread....still one of the best ever.

-john

[fullmonti]

Most of us have a few subjects they consider ill-advised to inter into a serious discussion about, because there is little chance of it ending well. Most commonly religion & politics. The selective breeding, culling, & the hows & whys of Discus is not Nearly as universal nor have the human consequences as those. Just the same you can talk about it all you want, in the end little to no good seems to come of it.

Jim

[Poco]

Been a long time since I read this entire thread....still one of the best ever.

-john

I don't know how I missed this thread, it is entertaining for sure.

Thanks to all who gave me a good laugh :)

[sammy]

I can't imagine anyone would have any problem at all giving healthy discus away - certainly around here I have taken a few in and still have them - I've even taken in some that were not all that healthy - just ask on the board and someone will help you out with them.

[pauline]

I don't know how I missed this thread, it is entertaining for sure.

Thanks to all who gave me a good laugh :)

+1.

[Susie]

There are many good articles on euthenizing fish online. I prefer to use oil of cloves. If you follow the correct protocol, your fish dies quietly in its sleep. If you want directions, I'll be glad to help you out.

I have also had to operate on one of my angelfish. Oil of cloves did a good job of putting it to sleep so I could cut off it's bubble lips. It was getting so it couldn't eat. The fish has lived a happy life for another year and is still going strong.

[krislewis3]

I've given away lots of fish over the years, even big boys, mainly to create tank space for new fish. Occasionally, I can sell, or trade them also. Not a huge market for Discus in my area however. Sorry to say, I've even resorted to culling a few as well. "Throwing them out in the yard" as I sometimes say. My wife doesn't think that sounds as funny as I do.

Oh...how could you!!

[krislewis3]

I always fulsh them down the stool. Had one that was to big to flush and after many attemps my wife made me put it back in the tank, still there a year and half later Jerry


NEVER flush your fish...it's just NOT HUMAINE!!!!

[pgrhodes1]

Boy, this gives me a new perspective of this site. I guess to most it's just a business Maybe after a while you lose compassion and even the joy of raising these beautiful fish. I truly hope I never become so callous that flushing a living thing down the toilet, or throwing it out to die, is funny.

[Bill63SG]

Boy, this gives me a new perspective of this site. I guess to most it's just a business Maybe after a while you lose compassion and even the joy of raising these beautiful fish. I truly hope I never become so callous that flushing a living thing down the toilet, or throwing it out to die, is funny.

:)
http://i1200.photobucket.com/albums/bb328/Bill63SG/m_leak022_zpsba8850d2.jpg (http://s1200.photobucket.com/user/Bill63SG/media/m_leak022_zpsba8850d2.jpg.html)

[Skip]

Dang bill.. i hate when i forget to bring in my discus from outside.. LOL

[Wes]

Bill, At least you left it a breathing hole.http://i1143.photobucket.com/albums/n622/xeriod/frozen_zpsdd8e79f8.jpg (http://s1143.photobucket.com/user/xeriod/media/frozen_zpsdd8e79f8.jpg.html)

[Skip]

Wes.. that.. is .. FUNNY!

[Bill63SG]

Bill, At least you left it a breathing hole.http://i1143.photobucket.com/albums/n622/xeriod/frozen_zpsdd8e79f8.jpg (http://s1143.photobucket.com/user/xeriod/media/frozen_zpsdd8e79f8.jpg.html)

LMAO

[a volar]

LOL........

[Skip]

NEVER flush your fish...it's just NOT HUMAINE!!!!

very true!! you need to REALLY LOVE YOUR FISH!! ALOT!

http://media.veryfunnypics.eu/2013/08/funny-picture-you-will-never-love-anything-as-much-as-this-girl-loves-her-fish.jpg

[Wes]

Wes.. that.. is .. FUNNY!
Skip, Bill had this picture as his avatar for a couple months. I could not figure out, from the small picture, what it was. I would look at it all the time trying to figure it out. So me and this fish have some history. http://i1143.photobucket.com/albums/n622/xeriod/aa_zps52fcc352.jpg (http://s1143.photobucket.com/user/xeriod/media/aa_zps52fcc352.jpg.html)

[kirkp]

I always fulsh them down the stool. Had one that was to big to flush and after many attemps my wife made me put it back in the tank, still there a year and half later Jerry

Just spit coffee all over myself

[Skip]

Just spit coffee all over myself

Kirk.. it was a very Nice BD.. but it was Slow grower.. about 5" inches.. LOL

if it does not fit, you must acquit.
http://www.newgre.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/glove.jpg

[aquadon2222]

I've got the same problem. I've got a couple of fish that are just not happy campers - they hide all the time, don't feed with the rest of the gang, slow growing and frankly they're just plain ugly.