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View Full Version : "Micro bubbles" even in aged water?



Sasha
03-31-2012, 04:44 PM
I use a mix of aged, circulated and heated well water and RO water. Recently no matter how many water changes I do my water looks slightly cloudy. When I look closely, I see thousands of tiny clear/white specks floating throughout the water. Upon reading through the Forum, it sounds as if I have these "micro bubbles" that some any talk about with winter water. However, the issue is primarily with people who use tap water and do not age it vs. me who uses well and RO water mix that is aged and circulated.

I also experience a dusty white film that sometimes coats the bottom of the tank, especially around any left over food particles that may be resting there. This dusty film can appear within a half an hour of feeding.

Has anyone else experienced this same type of thing? Any idea what is happening and what I should do about it? I have HOB filters, and I have cleaned the filters and sponges to no avail. My water parameters all test normal. Nitrites 0, ammonia 0, ph 8.0 (normal for my water), Nitrates 5 ppm.

Thank you for your thoughts.

Skip
03-31-2012, 06:55 PM
Um.. Thats it microbubbles... Mb come from expanding gases in tap water...rE

ariodpalm
04-10-2012, 07:41 AM
I am also experiencing the same issue and my discus had a sudden case of cloudy eye. I also age and use declorinate my water.

Skip
04-10-2012, 09:43 AM
I am also experiencing the same issue and my discus had a sudden case of cloudy eye. I also age and use declorinate my water.

op is talking about cloudy water..

you are talking about cloudy eye.. two very different things..

Ioan C.
04-10-2012, 09:54 AM
Hi, is the floor looking like covered with mushrooms?
Or it looks more like dust?

ariodpalm
04-10-2012, 12:42 PM
No, I have both. Microbubbles and cloudy eyes, that's why I said I have the same issue. I do read the entire post.

Skip
04-10-2012, 12:47 PM
No, I have both. Microbubbles and cloudy eyes, that's why I said I have the same issue. I do read the entire post.

micro bubble is due to gases from water line expanding once release.. aging water will take care of this..

cloudy eye
http://www.simplydiscus.com/library/disease_medications/medicine_cabinet/medication_information.shtml

ariodpalm
04-10-2012, 02:15 PM
I will let my water age for a little longer than 24 hrs. Thanks

Skip
04-10-2012, 02:25 PM
I will let my water age for a little longer than 24 hrs. Thanks

aerate it also :)

Ioan C.
04-11-2012, 08:56 AM
I see thousands of tiny clear/white specks floating throughout the water. Maybe you have a magnifying glass? You should find out if they are alive or not!
I will let my water age for a little longer than 24 hrs. ThanksThat will not help. 12 hours are enough. Even 6 hours is sufficient for partial water change.
Upon reading through the Forum, it sounds as if I have these "micro bubbles" that some any talk about with winter water.These bubbles also occur in aged water, when heated, but they remain only a few minutes in the water. If bubbles remain for several hours in the water, there has to be a different reason for it. They are probably constantly produced in the aquarium, perhaps some filter drag air, because otherwise they would quickly rise to the surface and the water would become clear. If they do not rise, it is not air, but something else.
I also experience a dusty white film that sometimes coats the bottom of the tank, especially around any left over food particles that may be resting there. This dusty film can appear within a half an hour of feeding.If the dust starts to settle on the ground it is certainly not a gas.

Skip
04-11-2012, 09:13 AM
That will not help. 12 hours are enough. Even 6 hours is sufficient for partial water change.
These bubbles also occur in aged water, when heated, but they remain only a few minutes in the water. If bubbles remain for several hours in the water, there has to be a different reason for it.
They are probably constantly produced in the aquarium, perhaps some filter drag air, because otherwise they would quickly rise to the surface and the water would become clear. If they do not rise, it is not air, but something else.
If the dust starts to settle on the ground it is certainly not a gas.

http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20100920214661/youtubeusers/images/b/b7/Facepalm_animated_gif.gif

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-0a3fg-fUWdw/T3On8vGgmVI/AAAAAAAAA4A/PJg-1gRMH5Y/s1600/bunk-the-wire.gif

magewynd
04-11-2012, 09:15 AM
Could it be because she is mixing the unfiltered well water with the RO water instead of maybe the RO waste water and the dust are particles suspended in her well water?



These bubbles also occur in aged water, when heated, but they remain only a few minutes in the water. If bubbles remain for several hours in the water, there has to be a different reason for it.
If they do not rise, it is not air, but something else.
If the dust starts to settle on the ground it is certainly not a gas.

Skip
04-11-2012, 09:20 AM
Could it be because she is mixing the unfiltered well water with the RO water instead of maybe the RO waste water and the dust are particles suspended in her well water?

whatever it is.. it is NOT MICRO-BUBBLES.. it is as you said.. PARTICULATES..

i don't what people to get confused on this.. maybe she should post a pic or update.. she hasn't be back on SD since March 31.. so going back and forth i guess won't help her.. if she is not here.. LOL

magewynd
04-11-2012, 09:30 AM
Whatever you do, don't lose the shaking head posts. I was laughing so hard I could of pa$$ed *as that settled on the floor.I think on the other thread most of us were talking about tap water and Ione is using RO and doesn't have to worry about chlorine.


whatever it is.. it is NOT MICRO-BUBBLES.. it is as you said.. PARTICULATES..

i don't what people to get confused on this.. maybe she should post a pic or update.. she hasn't be back on SD since March 31.. so going back and forth i guess won't help her.. if she is not here.. LOL

Skip
04-11-2012, 09:36 AM
I think on the other thread most of us were talking about tap water and Ione is using RO and doesn't have to worry about chlorine.

I KNOW!! then why post on the topic.. IF you don't know about it!!

he never seems to be on target or topic at hand.. i like the DISCUS PLAGUE post.. that was his first or 2nd post ever a few weeks ago, when someone had a sick discus.. LOL

Ioan C.
04-11-2012, 09:48 AM
I was laughing so hard I could of pa$$ed *as that settled on the floor.Sorry, that´s the best of "Google translate" at this time, :( but i´m happy to make you laugh :D

I think on the other thread most of us were talking about tap water and Ione is using RO and doesn't have to worry about chlorine.
It is not about my water, but a completely different, right?
So it does not matter what kind of water I use.
By the way, I use RO water with tap water, so I must be sure that it contains no chlorine, as well as everyone else have to.

Skip
04-11-2012, 09:57 AM
So it does not matter what kind of water I use.

it does not.. matter what water you use..

but it does matter.. if you do not have experience on a subject when some else is needing information..

just like you posted in the NITRATE thread..


Hi, some of you write that Nitrate is too high. Can anyone explain exactly why?
Please do not answer my question if you do not know the answer.

Ioan C.
04-11-2012, 10:11 AM
I have not asked the question because I do not know the answer, but because I know it very well!
It is for you, and for everyone else, almost impossible to prove that 10mg nitrate /1L (10 ppm) is harmful for adult discus.
Do it if you can, and I will change my mind, and maybe so will many scientists, too. You're then a famous man.:D

Skip
04-11-2012, 10:19 AM
I have not asked the question because I do not know the answer, but because I know it very well!

What u have done is confuse people with ur post... Or Maybe its jus translation problem...

Better yet.. Maybe introduce ur self... To sd.. U have been a member since 2010.. But posted first time a few weeks ago.. :)

magewynd
04-11-2012, 10:29 AM
With all due respect, you do have have a lot of knowledge and experience to share. You said you never had chlorine in 20 years. So in twenty years you probably have not used a lot of dechlor products. Maybe? We were talking about a specific product we use, plus a lot of us in the States have to deal with chloramines. 25 years ago before I left the hobby all I had to deal with was chlorine. When I came back a few years ago if someone hadn't mentioned getting something that also treats chloramines I would have killed a lot more fish than I have with the other live and learn mistakes I've made. I was going to ask you if RO removes chloramines. I did a Google search. Some say yes, some say no. Some say a double carbon block. I don't know because I haven't had to do a RO setup yet. But we were talking about tap water and Prime in that thread. Somewhere in all of this I don't think we are talking about the same problem so we come up with different solutions, some that may not apply.


Sorry, that´s the best of "Google translate" at this time, :( but i´m happy to make you laugh :DIt is not about my water, but a completely different, right?
So it does not matter what kind of water I use.

Ioan C.
04-11-2012, 10:59 AM
You said you never had chlorine in 20 years. So in twenty years you probably have not used a lot of dechlor products. Maybe?That´s right.
I was going to ask you if RO removes chloramines. No, it does not, and that´s for sure.
Some say a double carbon block. Yes and no.
Activated carbon, in any form, not only as a block, oxidized chlorine and makes it harmless for the RO membrane, if you use enough of it!
Chlorine destroys the RO membrane.
But we were talking about tap water and Prime in that thread. Somewhere in all of this I don't think we are talking about the same problem so we come up with different solutions, some that may not apply.
If you smell chlorine in the water, or suspect it is there, always add water conditioner one hour before the water change.What differences are there between our opinions?
It was only natural that you can not pour the primer into the aquarium, but the water that is prepared for the next water change.
I'll not be here a few hours, but that will not disturb you, probably, I strongly suspect. :D
I can not wait to read your reply with much interest when I'm back here. :D

Skip
04-11-2012, 11:17 AM
It was only natural that you can not pour the primer into the aquarium, but the water that is prepared for the next water change.

was that what the OP was talking about?!?!?!

no.. she had put water INTO the tank Straight from TAP not water storage tank.., so your answer did not apply..

magewynd
04-11-2012, 11:45 AM
Thanks for the answers[QUOTE=Ioan C.;879785]
What differences are there between our opinions?
It was only natural that you can not pour the primer into the aquarium, but the water that is prepared for the next water change.

And you wrote
"If you smell chlorine in the water, or suspect it is there, always add water conditioner one hour before the water change."


She never said she had smelled chlorine but that she had forgotten to use Prime (the product). I don't know what primer is but we were talking about Prime. Seachem has said that it works almost instantaneously and the poster said she added Prime after 15 minutes when she remembered and the fish started to recover. We were not talking about smelling anything, but about using a specific product. Have you used Seachem Prime? Your answers have been good but they don't apply to what is being discussed. We are way off topic now and discussing in another thread. You have right to an opinion but they haven't been applying to the subject or the original questions asked.

Ioan C.
04-11-2012, 06:13 PM
This:
"If you smell chlorine in the water, or suspect it is there, always (That means: now and in the future!) add water conditioner one hour before the waterchange." (to the water you prepare for the next waterchange. You have no reason to find clorine in the Aquarium if the fishes was ok before, so it was only natural that there is no reason to pour the primer into the aquarium, but into the water that is prepared for the next water change, in a separate tank.)
was not an advice for what to do at the time i wrote it, but for the future, so this mistake cannot happen again.
My subjekt was clorine and Seachem Primer!!
My 4 juvies who I've had for 3 months are suddenly dying after my water change this morning!...The fourth one is now acting more normal....I think it had to be the chlorine, and my delayed use of the prime!! ....All tests show the water as normal...no ammonia etc.....The thread starter describes symptoms that lead to the conclusion that in his fresh added water could was chlorine, and he used Seachem Prime.
krislewis3´s subjekt was clorine and Seachem Prime!!!
did you add prime/or other de-chlorinator....you added water with chlorine into the Tank .. then when you noticed they were being affect by CHLORINE POISON.. you added prime..?!1. your fish were probably suffering from Chlorine.. Adding water conditioner to REMOVE chlorine will do NOTHING for the water you ADDING During water change.. not before, UNLESS You are talking about AGED water in another tankThis is not correct, because:
...Seachem has said that it works almost instantaneously.So, the conditioner will remoove clorine even during the water change.
warlock´s subjekt was clorine and prime/or other declorinator!
magewynd´s subjekt was Seachem Primer!!

My subjekt was clorine and Seachem Primer!
krislewis3´s subjekt was clorine and Seachem Prime!
warlocks´s subjekt was clorine and prime/or other declorinator!
magewynd´s subjekt was Seachem Primer!!
...You have right to an opinion but they haven't been applying to the subject or the original questions asked..
Are you sure?

We are way off topic now and discussing in another thread.
just like you posted in the NITRATE thread..This was the first try to get us "Of topic",
You said you never had chlorine in 20 years.And this was the second.
It was not my intention and i am sorry for getting off topic.

Skip
04-11-2012, 06:41 PM
IOAN..

now your are bring ANOTHER THREAD into this thread??!! you still make no sense.. sorry..

but as i said... earlier.. SASHA has not been back..

magewynd
04-11-2012, 06:41 PM
You are talking now aren't you?

Like I said before you have good information, But like below when you gave advice for something that might happen in the future you confused the situation for what needs to be dealt with immediately to help the poster. She had already realized she had forgotten to use the conditioner. When you chimed in further on the specific product when Skip and I were already trying to help her find the most effective way to use Prime, it further confused matters.

i don't know if you are familiar with it, but it's like the term "we weren't all on the same page."

Just my opinion.

I did learn more for myself about using RO from this discussion for my own future endeavors.



This:
"If you smell chlorine in the water, or suspect it is there, always (That means: now and in the future!) add water conditioner one hour before the waterchange." (to the water you prepare for the next waterchange. You have no reason to find clorine in the Aquarium if the fishes was ok before, so it was only natural that there is no reason to pour the primer into the aquarium, but into the water that is prepared for the next water change, in a separate tank.)
was not an advice for what to do at the time i wrote it, but for the future, so this mistake cannot happen again.


Are you sure?

Skip
04-11-2012, 06:46 PM
Steve don't encourage him.. LOL>.

he should have posted that YESTERDAY!>>! we i asked him to clear it up about that post.. AND KRIS problems have nothing to do with SASHA's..


he wasn't even in the SAME BOOK.. much less same page.. LOL!!!!

magewynd
04-11-2012, 06:54 PM
Ya, I know.
Steve don't encourage him.. LOL>.

he should have posted that YESTERDAY!>>! we i asked him to clear it up about that post.. AND KRIS problems have nothing to do with SASHA's..


he wasn't even in the SAME BOOK.. much less same page.. LOL!!!!

But Sasha has some wigglers about to free swim, LOL. On another thread.

Same page, same book ,same forum? Don't even think about Skip, I'd have no place else to go.

Ioan C.
04-11-2012, 07:06 PM
I have expressed my opinion clear enough and I have nothing more to add.

tbird22771
04-11-2012, 07:29 PM
Umm did we ever come up with what causes the tiny particles? because last week I was experiencing the same thing in one of my tanks (but not in the other two) - although I could not see particles in the water but a fine dust was settled on the bottom of the tank after feedings. The fish never acted any different and looked good so I did not change what I was doing - just took a wait and see approach (I do a 90% daily change on the tank that was having the issue and just kept that up, oh I did do additional wipe downs - usually every 3rd day and went to every other day) now this week I am not seeing the settling on the bottom of the tank (its BB). I use a mix of aged tap (with prime) and r/o - my water is stupidly hard (thats what I get for living in a town settled because of the rich lime deposits lol) Anyhow I was just curious and if it does happen again I will take a few pics and post them.

Ioan C.
04-11-2012, 07:57 PM
Hi, you should try to filter some of the dust thru a paper coffee filter, dry it and find out what it could be. I think it comes from the food. Pics are good, but not enough in this case. A magnifier or a microscope would be better.

jimg
04-11-2012, 08:00 PM
I used to get that tan dust on the bottom too. it comes from the sponge filters. the more you clean the tank the more it seems to be there. I cured it with ac hob filters, although I see you do use them maybe more flow of larger hob? there will be no micro bubbles in water that is aged enough

Ioan C.
04-11-2012, 08:04 PM
This begs the question why only one of several pools and why shortly after feeding?

jimg
04-11-2012, 08:09 PM
would be good idea to look with scope or magnifying glass could be ostracods but I never seem them that extensive.....never know