terrible mistake...

[shoveltrash]

I have made a terrible mistake :(
several weeks ago I decided to remove my manzanita and scrub it clean. I plopped it in my bathtub and scrubbed it pristine. problem is, I used my TAP water. I use RO for my tank, reconstituted with RO Right & Discus Essentials for minerals. well.........it leached into my tank water raising the pH (!).
D*MN & BLAST how could I be so stupid??????
so now, I've been playing catch-up in the vicious cycle of trying to keep a constant pH for water changes. prior my pH was steady at 6.5-6.8, TDS 150 (and I had some spawning activity). now it's 7.5+, and I'm having to add LOADS of RO Right to my WC water to prevent lowering the pH in my tank too drastically for my daily WCs. and with this the TDS has risen to 350 (!).
and NOW I've got a fish who is failing to thrive -- one of my Classic Leopards who had originally paired & laid eggs! :cry:
it has gone slightly darker, with dull eyes. it still eats, some, but is not the voracious & active fish it was prior, like all the others.

at this point I REALLY want to get my pH & TDS down again, but am terrified of 'burning' them with too drastic a pH change.
not sure what to do!!!
I could just KICK myself.
I do think that the leaching has finally stopped. so I'm left with the monumental crap shoot of getting my pH & TDS down to proper levels again.

ideas?

I read on another thread that there are better products for RO reconstitution, to raise pH (better than RO Right?).
should this be something I try?

so so angry with myself.

[YSS]

I highly doubt cleaning your woods in the tap water caused your water issues. Never say never, but I'd be very surprised. If you are having water issues, it must be from something else.

[Second Hand Pat]

Trish, remove the wood to see if that is the problem. I am with Yun in that I do not think it is the wood unless you used something with the water to clean it. I would aim for stability with your ph and TDS even if it is higher at this point.

[jimg]

I don't think the problem is from you washing the wood in tap and it leaching. I would check to make sure there were no changes in your tap and your ro water. letting the ph lower from 7.5 to 6.8 in a wc or 2 will not hurt them, the gh is more to be concerned about. the change in ph from 6.5-6-8 also should not effect the fish spawning or turning dark.
I have been experimenting again with using ro right in my ro and imo there is nothing wrong with using it some claim it's not good but i never hear why. I have heard/read many say to that discus essentials is a waste of $. I use ro right in the storage barrel and keep crushed coral in the hob filter and keep my ec at 170 and ph at 6.4 steady.
check through all water parameters and anything else added, I really don't think washing the wood in tap is the problem, although as far fetched as it may be a thought would be if you had enough wood per volume of water the wood leaching tannins may have kept your ph down and due to a good scrubbing it may have washed the tannins off the surface and it will take awhile to start leaching again

[shoveltrash]

but prior to the soaking & scrubbing of the wood I had NO problems. perfect stability. nothing else changed.
<confused>
I check my RO before reconstitution, and the TDS has remained at 35 (which was what it was when I first installed the unit).
water params are normal, daily WCs, just the changes I noted in the original post.

Pat at this point the wood has been in the tank post-cleaning/soaking for several weeks. should I remove it now???

I have one other tank, my Angelfish.......there have been no changes whatsoever in this tank. so it really does lead me to believe that the variable is the wood that I soaked/cleaning in my cr@p tap water.




letting the ph lower from 7.5 to 6.8 in a wc or 2 will not hurt them, the gh is more to be concerned about.ok......so maybe I'll start doing small WCs with lower pH water. fingers crossed. my initial WC right after the wood cleaning was with the lower pH water (I didn't test the tank, not thinking it would change), so perhaps I shocked them and the one fish was most affected. the rest are fine, compelely normal.

[DiscusLoverJeff]

Trish,

I clean the same wood with tap water. After 6 hours of putting back in my tank, I do a water test and nothing changes.

[Second Hand Pat]

Trish, I suggest removing the wood if you suspect it is a problem (again I do not think the wood is the issue). So have you been having the issues since you added the wood back in? There may also be some validity to what Jim suggested on the tannin's.

What exactly is wrong with the fish? I have ph (or ammonia) shocked fish when doing a plop and drop into a tank with ph 7.8 and bag water 6.5 when I was on straight well water. Generally the fish had whitest edges on the finnage.

[jimg]

I check my RO before reconstitution, and the TDS has remained at 35 (which was what it was when I first installed the unit).
usually when membranes and filters are new they will be high but should go down after use. what is you tap tds?
I think my idea of tannins could be the culprit if all else is the same
another though may be the decaying wood could have been releasing nitric acid and keeping the ph low

[eaglesfan3000]

That really sucks good luck getting it figured out. I use tank water to clean my wood.

[shoveltrash]

I clean the same wood with tap water. After 6 hours of putting back in my tank, I do a water test and nothing changes.
yeah but Jeff my tap (well) water is awful!!!! loaded with iron, calcium, etc. my tap TDS runs in the 7-900 range. pH is 9+.
I still think that the wood absorbed some of this water. that is the only thing that has changed. however Murphy's Law - I posted this because I've been worried about this one fish, and today it is better. after the last WC I upped the temp from 83 to 86.



what is you tap tds?see above, ridiculously high :(


I think my idea of tannins could be the culprit if all else is the same
another though may be the decaying wood could have been releasing nitric acid and keeping the ph lowthanks for taking the time to post Jim.
I think I'm not quite understanding this though (quite possible LOL!). if my WC RO water pH remains the same once in the tank (no change) and stays the same, then the manzanita prior to my OCD scrubbing wasn't influencing the pH at all. and after the scrub/soak in tap water, the tank pH shot up. would tannins cause a rise? I can't see anything else influencing the pH, esp given that it's a BB tank, and I do daily WCs (no buildup of waste food, etc).
so if tannins "were keeping the pH low" - what would cause the pH to rise in the first place??? :crazy:
can you tell I'm not grasping this? still have a lot to learn...........




What exactly is wrong with the fish? I have ph (or ammonia) shocked fish when doing a plop and drop into a tank with ph 7.8 and bag water 6.5 when I was on straight well water. Generally the fish had whitest edges on the finnage.
behavior: hides with nose in the corner, not previously exhibited. still comes up for feedings to eat, but hangs back more than before, eats less.
color: very slightly darker, not quite as 'brilliant' as before - perhaps "dull" is a better word. dull in the eyes.
nothing else noteworthy.
I'm hoping that it's transient (fingers toes crossed).
interesting that whitish fin edges is a sign of pH burn, I didn't know that! thanks for the info Pat.



good luck getting it figured out. I use tank water to clean my wood.thanks!!!
and yep, ALL my cleaning is now done strictly with TANK WATER :D.

[jimg]

thanks for taking the time to post Jim.
I think I'm not quite understanding this though (quite possible LOL!). if my WC RO water pH remains the same once in the tank (no change) and stays the same, then the manzanita prior to my OCD scrubbing wasn't influencing the pH at all. and after the scrub/soak in tap water, the tank pH shot up. would tannins cause a rise? I can't see anything else influencing the pH, esp given that it's a BB tank, and I do daily WCs (no buildup of waste food, etc).
so if tannins "were keeping the pH low" - what would cause the pH to rise in the first place???
can you tell I'm not grasping this? still have a lot to learn...........
If your ro always stayed the same in the tank as in the barrel you may be right. I let the bio of the tank take my ph down a little so my reconstituted ro has a higher ph than my tank so I was thinking my conditions, sorry if I confused you. with a tds that high you may be right about washing the wood, sounds at first unlikely but something new always comes up with this hobby!

[Melissa]

Cleaning it in the bathtub... Maybe some kind of soap or residue from soap or chemicals from bathtub cleaner soaked into the wood? Or wait, the prob. Is with the water params correct? How strange!

So so sorry to read of your troubles trish :( i really hope it gets sorted out quickly.