Hamburg Mattenfilter

[rubinsteinnyc]

Has anyone tried one of these? Is it practical? Looks like a good way to save up some money and surface area is better than on a circular sponge

stumbled upon it watching this :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=km0IgEVxe6E&feature=related

[illumnae]

I've used it before in a pleco tank set up. Don't know how to measure filtration, but it kept my water parameters as it should

[Emilio]

It's the best sponge filter or even the best filter. I have been using this for 5 years and I am very happy with it.

[bleublaze55]

Ive seen a couple breeders use that same method. It seems to work very well. If i didn't want a planted tank i would use that inside my big tank as well.

[Moon]

I converted all my 15 discus tanks and five pleco tanks to mattenfilter. Works great, less maintenance and takes up less space.

[rubinsteinnyc]

good stuff guys! anyone else? do you use just an airstone or a powerhead? do you see the dirt on the WHOLE surface of the foam?

[rubinsteinnyc]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RitkNdxQjko

[Chicago Discus]

how do you clean it?

[rubinsteinnyc]

i suppose ( just my wild guess) due to the relatively large surface of the foam as opposed to a normal sponge filter you clean it very scarcely and when you do, you just clean it mechanically, rinse it and squeeze it out in drained water from your tank and voila! I am really liking it, the day i set up my discus tank, i will set this filter up with two small powerheads.

[joanstone]

http://www.janrigter.nl/mattenfilter/
http://www.swisstropicals.com/Poret%20Filter%20Foam%20Q&A.html

[Emilio]

I will say it again...the "BEST" filter! Here is a video of my tank with a Hamburg Mattenfilter. Enjoy!


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bKhCIkC4xVg

[roundfishross]

I tried this setup personally in 20 g long breeder tanks. with two air lift tubes and a 200 watt heater there was not enough water movment to keep the tanks at an even temp( heaters ran all the time). A power head would have fixed the problem , but this was in a breeder tank room with 30 tanks running on a central air driven system. I was not about to buy or run 30 power heads. so for me this hamburg style setup was a big fail! :angry:

[Moon]

I have a air lift tube made out of 3/4 PVC. Works great in all my tanks even the 65's. Power heads will be too costly. My central air system handles all my tanks with good circulation.

[Moon]

how do you clean it?
Just rinse the foam.

[roundfishross]

I have a air lift tube made out of 3/4 PVC. Works great in all my tanks even the 65's. Power heads will be too costly. My central air system handles all my tanks with good circulation.

I was using two 1/2 " maybe that was the problem.

hey, also in hiend sight I'll bet being a 20 long the shortness in hight of the lift tubes had a negative effect on the flow rate to.????

[roundfishross]

I will say it again...the "BEST" filter! Here is a video of my tank with a Hamburg Mattenfilter. Enjoy!


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bKhCIkC4xVg

Emilio, in your video the heater is not hidden behind the foam, isn't this the whole purpose for the hamburg? and what exactly is running that spray bar? Is there a canister filter on the tank to?

Leo

[roundfishross]

the clean look of this guy's setup is what sold me, but I could not make this system work without keeping the fish room at an uncomfortable temp

http://www.brianstropicals.com/pages/My-basement.html

[rubinsteinnyc]

I tried this setup personally in 20 g long breeder tanks. with two air lift tubes and a 200 watt heater there was not enough water movment to keep the tanks at an even temp( heaters ran all the time). A power head would have fixed the problem , but this was in a breeder tank room with 30 tanks running on a central air driven system. I was not about to buy or run 30 power heads. so for me this hamburg style setup was a big fail! :angry:
where did you have the heater located? how strong was the airpump that was pumping air? how many atmospheres?

[rubinsteinnyc]

I have a air lift tube made out of 3/4 PVC. Works great in all my tanks even the 65's. Power heads will be too costly. My central air system handles all my tanks with good circulation.
what pump do you use to run your entire set up. also, can you give some specifics about your set up plz? how many tanks, sizes etc etc, and finally what foam do you use, what thickness, where did you get etc etc

[Inland Empire Discus]

You can always put it on steroids with K1 media. This works so well and you get a heck of a lot of Bio.

[Emilio]

Emilio, in your video the heater is not hidden behind the foam, isn't this the whole purpose for the hamburg? and what exactly is running that spray bar? Is there a canister filter on the tank to?

Leo

Hi Leo. I have 2 heaters in the tank 1 of them is behind the foam. Yes there is a canister filter on the tank too. The foam is a pre filter for the canister filter at the same time as it filters as a HMF(hamburg mattenfilter). The whole purpose of this type of filter is to filter a larger bacteria surface area compared to traditional foam/sponge filter. Not just to hide the heater.

[Carolina discus]

I am trying to finish the new room/hatchery and I built a 200g sump that will house a massive one located within a central system and cartridge filter.....I did alot of research and it provides an unmatched bio load...check out swiss tropicals for all types of technical info...it will answer all types of questions...
regards
eric

[Carolina discus]

sorry...ghere is a link to some pics...
http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showthread.php?95576-New-fish-room-hatchery
I have a few questions to reply to and will try to update as I finish additional rows and tanks....

[roundfishross]

where did you have the heater located? how strong was the airpump that was pumping air? how many atmospheres?

heater was located behind the foam, Alita al 80 air pump running 30 to 60 stones( very strong), not sure what the last question means.

[roundfishross]

Hi Leo. I have 2 heaters in the tank 1 of them is behind the foam. Yes there is a canister filter on the tank too. The foam is a pre filter for the canister filter at the same time as it filters as a HMF(hamburg mattenfilter). The whole purpose of this type of filter is to filter a larger bacteria surface area compared to traditional foam/sponge filter. Not just to hide the heater.

so really the canister filter in your setup is doing the bulk of the work here? I would think that one massive Jager heater would plenty in your tank is the other used only as a back up?

[Emilio]

so really the canister filter in your setup is doing the bulk of the work here? I would think that one massive Jager heater would plenty in your tank is the other used only as a back up?

No. It's 50/50. I find it with tanks over 3 ft. long. I find it using 2 heaters at both ends you heat the tank more constant. My tank is 4 feet long. 60 gallons.

[roundfishross]

No. It's 50/50. I find it with tanks over 3 ft. long. I find it using 2 heaters at both ends you heat the tank more constant. My tank is 4 feet long. 60 gallons.

if you were to lay that heater down horizontally on the bottom of the tank it would heat your tank much more efficiently and discourage the discus from burning them selves when they attempt to spawn on it ;)

[Moon]

Put the heater behind the foam and crank up the air flow.

[Emilio]

if you were to lay that heater down horizontally on the bottom of the tank it would heat your tank much more efficiently and discourage the discus from burning them selves when they attempt to spawn on it ;)
Thanks but I don't like the look of heaters laying horizontally.

Put the heater behind the foam and crank up the air flow.
Thanks. If you crank up the air the current might be too strong.

[rubinsteinnyc]

when the current is too strong, how about installing an elbow and pointing it up a bit so it kinda shoots up? extra aeration? :)

[rubinsteinnyc]

BUMP

[:SEBastian:]

i use them as tank dividers in my breeding tanks with filter inlet on one side and outlet on the other side. they are easy to move/remove as needed. just be aware that they need a lot of oxygen to work(as any bio filter does)

[rubinsteinnyc]

hey Sebastian, could you provide pictures?

[Moon]

what pump do you use to run your entire set up. also, can you give some specifics about your set up plz? how many tanks, sizes etc etc, and finally what foam do you use, what thickness, where did you get etc etc
Mine is a central linear piston air pump. I have 20 tanks running on this system. The foam is 2" thick and 10 pores.

[Moon]

when the current is too strong, how about installing an elbow and pointing it up a bit so it kinda shoots up? extra aeration? :)

My air outlet is in line with the water surface line. It creates a turbulence on the surface.

[:SEBastian:]

hope this works first time adding pic

http://i754.photobucket.com/albums/xx188/sebastian76/IMG_9521.jpg

i marked the filter in and outlet. you should get the idea

[rubinsteinnyc]

so on the top rack you have two ins and two outs?
what are the dimension of that long tank on the top? what pump do you use for that set up? is that a sump all the way on the bottom?

[:SEBastian:]

yeah on the top i have 2 in and 2 outlets. the top tank is 6ftx18x18inch. then i have 4 tanks 3ftx18x18 under that. the sump is on the left side of the stand. the sump is 4ftx2ftx15inch and i use a 10000l/h pump as i loose a lot of pressure going up to the top level. a 6000l/h pump should do for the amount of tanks in a 2 tier system.

[rubinsteinnyc]

10.000 L pump?! how much water flow do you have in there? 5x tank volume an hr or something?

[:SEBastian:]

As i said i loose a lot of pressure going to the top level. a 10000l/h pump will only pump 10000l/h when you measure at the outlet of the pump. every inch of pipe and every ellbow and valve will reduce your actual l/h. and pumping the water about 7ft up is as bad as it gets for a pump.

[rubinsteinnyc]

would you be able to approximate around what's the output up top?

[roundfishross]

would you be able to approximate around what's the output up top?

theres a formula for this purpose

[:SEBastian:]

would you mind posting that formula? i know the part about water going up against gravity in a pipe but not arount ellbows and thru valves. i would estimate to have 4000-5000l/h output in my 1000l system so 4 to 5 times tank volume an hour. i leave that current for my plecos but i use a piece of sponge to lower the current for my discus.

[rubinsteinnyc]

would it be the bernoulli's equation? just guessing, remember solving physics problems with water flow in college :)

[jaylew]

My air outlet is in line with the water surface line. It creates a turbulence on the surface.

I know I am nearly a year behind this thread but my Alita 40 drives all my tanks.....and all my tanks are Hamburg Mattenfilter equipped with Poret Foam from SwissTropicals or an equivalent foam from Angels Plus. Both men are very experienced in foam techniques and both offer foam at the prices you have to cough up in order to get the correct foam. As everyone knows this is not normal foam...it is produced using a process that forces the air pockets (cells) inside to deliberately break open instead of what other industrial foams do by deliberately trying to keep those cells closed. The open cell make up of these foams means that you will never find them inside a life preserver or any flotation device.

In any case....and I do not raise Discus so you are all the resident experts on those most beautiful of fishes.....but I do feel comfortable talking about Mattenfilter use. It is as Moon has posted......you can control the water column recycle time by very simply angling the cut of your lift tube endpieces. What I mean by angling is easier shown than described in words but I will try. I make the cut a full four inches long. In other words the line drawn with a sharpie starts from the bottom of the end of the 3\4 or one inch PVC tube coming off the lift tube...and angles back all the way 4 inches to the top of the pipe. You are spreading out the cut for a 3\4 piece of pvc pipe over a 4 inch length.....and that long long cut makes for much movement of the water surface once you run some air through the lift tube portion of the 90 degree piece...and it moves a lot of water with a minimum of obvious tank turbulence. You can also cut yourself while sawing that awkward angle too so be careful if you are using hand tools. All my heaters are behind the foam. Even on long tanks like 40 breeders and 55's. In this way the surface of the water is always in an active exchange with the ambient air above the tank. As you all know that is where most typical O2 and gas exchange occurs. All my tanks are covered with two simple pieces of proper glass and the front pane simply leans flat overlapping the top of the front edge of the respective tank. I use T5 banks from Aquatraders...who at one time struggled with quality but in the last 3 years I have had nothing but outstanding serviceability from every single fixture I have purchased. The Mattenfilter is a design of incredible functionality and you can turn a single 55 into a literal mini farm by using pieces of the foam as dividers inside the tank. The filtration occurs through multiple inserts placed in a single tank. This allows for keeping adults...juveniles and fry of varying sizes to remain in the same biotope. You simply put the fish you want inside any of the foam dividers....which are held in place by your careful cutting of the foam to be a tight fit as you manually squeeze the piece into place...No glue...No mess...just simple placement of well cut foam. It will stay in place with no problem.

So by tapering the end of the pvc tube...and by then controlling the air flow in the lift tube....you can..and I will freely admit doing so....literally do nothing but add rain or RO water to such a biotope and simply remove the water change ritual from a portion of your hobby...at least with the least killifish and other native fishes I raise. I have Hamburg Mattenheim filters in a few of my tanks that have not been removed, cleaned or disturbed in any way for over 4 years...... those tanks have live plants in them as all mine do...and the fauna and flora that grows on the filter pads is worth watching all by itself. Riccia Fluitans will literally "root" into the top inch or so of the foam filter pads....you can watch the bubbles almost foam from it's photosynthetic gas production.

I encourage everyone to give this method a try.....no more canister media issues....no moving parts except the diaphragm on the Alita.....and my fish room is quiet...there is no incessant fish store bubbling sound or pump noise...only the sound of quiet percolating water. Shrimp and Crayfish flourish using these filters...although larger crayfish like Marmorkrebs will gnaw on it if you don't keep them happy with something more palatable available...like any plant they can grab. CPO's. RCS and other shrimps will crawl all over the foam face and act like they are eating at a buffet...all day and all night long. Anyway...thats my late 2 cents.....

[fredyx]

I've used it for breeding and rising fries is a perfect filter for that. Mine was "moved" by a powerhead and nitrites and ammonia were always under control.
Problems this filter has:
-Need more time to "mature" than cannister filters.
-It has no mechanical filtration and gets quite dirty, so aesteticaly is a bad system, not intended for display tanks.
-It needs more room in the aquarium than other filters.
-If you need to medicate against bacteria you will kill the beneficial ones in the foam. If you leave it in the tank by the antibiotic, if you take it out of the tank won't have water circulation and will die anyway.

One good use of it is to make divisions in a big tank: You put the foam as divider and the pump or air pipe taking the water from one side to the other. By means of it you get good filtration and you divide the tank at the same time.

Some images and videos:
http://img545.imageshack.us/img545/3697/img20120622213801.jpg
http://img839.imageshack.us/img839/3729/img20120622213844.jpg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MzAotHMA0MM&feature=plcp

[fredyx]

Another video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y4CJd2Pp8B8&feature=g-upl

[rubinsteinnyc]

http://casb.okstate.edu/casb/fishchum/index.php/scientists-featured-articles/79-freshwater-filtration-novel-insights-and-practical-considerations

[cjr8420]

http://casb.okstate.edu/casb/fishchum/index.php/scientists-featured-articles/79-freshwater-filtration-novel-insights-and-practical-considerations
i like the disclaimer at the end lol
Disclosure

The author is the owner of Swisstropicals LLC, the exclusive importer and distributor for Poret® filter foam and B&H Jetlifters™ in North America. ]www.swisstropicals com

[William Palumbo]

I have used them when I was running my Discus hatchery back in Chicago. I had no problem with them. I had one for every grow-out tank, which were always way over-stocked. Aside from the biological benefit, it was nice to hide the heater behind it and keep it out of sight. Cleaning them was a pain, tho I did not have to do that often. It was a small trade-off. As said, they make great dividers as well. All in all, I really liked them, and would not hesitate to put them back in use if needed...Bill

[pauline]

i like the disclaimer at the end lol
Disclosure

The author is the owner of Swisstropicals LLC, the exclusive importer and distributor for Poret® filter foam and B&H Jetlifters™ in North America. ]www.swisstropicals com/

I saw that too. Upon further research I found this.....

http://www.swisstropicals.com/About%20Swiss%20Tropicals.html

My disclaimer....I have HMF filters in some of my tanks and have found Dr. Tanner to be readily accessible and helpful. ;)

[Robert Wesolowski]

Excellent discussion.