Beginner here! Any suggestions?

[son303]

I've been reading a lot of info on this forum. I have a 150 gallon tank. It's part mostly hard scape with some easy to take of plants. I chose java fern and java moss. I chose gouramis to start my cycle from the advice from my lfs. I've been reading on here that people like using the fish less method to cycle. Did I start off on the wrong foot?

[Northwoods Discus]

The reason people suggest fishless cycle is using a LFS fish to cycle will bring in disease. Then you put in your discus.

[son303]

Oh i see. Hopefully when my tank is fully cycled. My discus juvies don't catch a disease. =\

[Orange Crush]

If you can move the gourami and plants into a different tank you can bleach everything in the 150 (keep filter in tank and running as well as everything else), drain the tank, refill, drain, refill, drain, refill, add dechlor then do a fishless cycle. Discus are way to expensive to play russian roulette with.

[son303]

If you can move the gourami and plants into a different tank you can bleach everything in the 150 (keep filter in tank and running as well as everything else), drain the tank, refill, drain, refill, drain, refill, add dechlor then do a fishless cycle. Discus are way to expensive to play russian roulette with.

If i do this... I'm looking at another 4-6 weeks before its cycled and ready for the discus fish?

[Orange Crush]

If i do this... I'm looking at another 4-6 weeks before its cycled and ready for the discus fish?
Yes, but it is worth it. I spent almost $500 on my 6 discus and for me personally, I would not do something that could potentially kill them. Discus are not cheap fish that can be bought at a LFS like gouramis.

[Teshi]

Yes, but it is worth it. I spent almost $500 on my 6 discus and for me personally, I would not do something that could potentially kill them. Discus are not cheap fish that can be bought at a LFS like gouramis.

+1

[strawberryblonde]

Hi Son,

So here's something to think about, k?

Unless you plan to buy juvie discus who are the same size as your gourami's, and you also purchased almost the exact same number of gourami's as you will be purchasing in discus..... OR.... you bought 2 or 3 times the number of gourami that you will have in discus.... you aren't actually going to be cycling your tank fully the way that you're doing it.

The bio-load varies depending on the demands from the fish in the tank. 2 or 3 gourami's (what most LFS's recommend for cycling) don't make a dent in the amount of bio-load that eight 3" - 4" discus will need.

Fishless cycling isn't just safer for the discus (no introduction of pathogens from other fish), it's also the easiest way to push the filters to produce more beneficial bacteria.

And then there's my favorite method (cuz I'm lazy). Purchase seeded sponge filters from the discus breeder when you purchase fish! Hook them to an air pump, toss them in the tank just before you toss in your discus and voila, instantly cycled tank. =)

[Orange Crush]

Unless you plan to buy juvie discus who are the same size as your gourami's, and you also purchased almost the exact same number of gourami's as you will be purchasing in discus..... OR.... you bought 2 or 3 times the number of gourami that you will have in discus.... you aren't actually going to be cycling your tank fully the way that you're doing it.

The bio-load varies depending on the demands from the fish in the tank. 2 or 3 gourami's (what most LFS's recommend for cycling) don't make a dent in the amount of bio-load that eight 3" - 4" discus will need.
Good point! I am also surprised that the LFS recommended gouramis rather than more hearty fish like danios.

[son303]

Hi Son,

So here's something to think about, k?

Unless you plan to buy juvie discus who are the same size as your gourami's, and you also purchased almost the exact same number of gourami's as you will be purchasing in discus..... OR.... you bought 2 or 3 times the number of gourami that you will have in discus.... you aren't actually going to be cycling your tank fully the way that you're doing it.

The bio-load varies depending on the demands from the fish in the tank. 2 or 3 gourami's (what most LFS's recommend for cycling) don't make a dent in the amount of bio-load that eight 3" - 4" discus will need.

Fishless cycling isn't just safer for the discus (no introduction of pathogens from other fish), it's also the easiest way to push the filters to produce more beneficial bacteria.

And then there's my favorite method (cuz I'm lazy). Purchase seeded sponge filters from the discus breeder when you purchase fish! Hook them to an air pump, toss them in the tank just before you toss in your discus and voila, instantly cycled tank. =)

the lfs is our neighbor at the restaurant i run.... the gouramis are going back to him.... as they are only going to be used to be cycle the filter. My plan is to do a small community tank with cardinal tetras, cherry shrimp, and juvie discus as the main attraction. so his suggestion was to start with 6 gouramis to get the tank cycled in about 4 weeks. after the fish are going back to the lfs. then the cardinals and cherry shrimp are going in for a few weeks. that was the owners suggestion. So after reading all this info on this forum, idk if im going that route anymore.

[son303]

Here is what my tank looks like. Id like to avoid bleaching and fish less cycling if I can

http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e128/sonnyboy303/bbad1f31.jpg
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e128/sonnyboy303/7808a7d6.jpg

[Orange Crush]

Bleaching the stuff is the only way to ensure that any of the bacteria/parasites are killed off but I can see what a PITA it will be. It is really up to you, we can only give you our advice from experience.
Keep in mind that juvies are very sensitive about their water quality and cannot tolerate a tank cycling which would happen unless you have a bunch of fish in there that you would take out entirely when you put the discus in (high probability of contamination though) or do a fishless cycle.
Also, do some more reading on raising juvies in a tank that is not bare bottom but has substrate and plants instead like yours. It is very difficult to do it and be successful at (odds are against it ending well).

[jimg]

adding discus with lfs fish is a chance but not always a big deal. many have plecos, tetras, snails etc etc that come from fish farms, local breeders or lfs. even well known breeders fish carry pathogens that fish from other areas are not used to. anytime fish are added from other sources whether it's breeders or lfs chances are still taken though lfs are usually the most contaminated.
The main concern I would have is trying to raise juveniles or even adults for that matter in that tank with all the rocks and substrate. That is not what I would advise. as for the lfs fish if they are fine after a month at least then they are as good as any other source would be.
If you really want to grow out discus do a LOT of reading here. You can pick someone in the archives that has been around for more than a year or few and follow them. and get some good books helps too. It it nice the way ypu set it up, just wrong at this point for discus imo
if you want to start over no need to wait 6 weeks for cycle. there is Dr Timms one and only and tetra safestart that will cycle that tank in about a week or less. they are expensive and work i would say 70% of the time.

[shoveltrash]

my advice to you would be to invest in older/larger Discus. and get a good water change system worked out, so that you can easily do regular WCs to maintain your water quality.
I bought my group of 6 sub-adults from a SD sponsor, and he was nice enough to send seeded sponge filters so that I didn't have to cycle my tank! :)

[applekrate]

no need to wait 6 weeks for cycle. there is Dr Timms one and only and tetra safestart that will cycle that tank in about a week or less.

+1 Just did a 40 gallon in 10 days using beneficial bacteria, fish food and plants. No fish. Hint--Key with many BB products is when your cycling the tank don't dilute the product with water changes--let the BB grow!

One thought, I would bring the sand down to an inch or less. Less risk of Bad Bacteria pockets.

Nice tank setup

[son303]

Thanks for all the suggestions. Originally I had no clue on what fish I wanted to put In here. As this tank was meant mostly for my customers enjoyment. So I setup up the tank with just plants and drift wood. Thinking that I'd make a decision on what fish to choose after the tank has finished. I'm hooked on discus now. I have no other choice but take a step back and do it the proper way, even though it's gonna set me back a couple of weeks. =)

Quick question though, I know that some of you suggest that my tank setup is not good for discus. The decor will not change. So my plans are making a small community tank. With cardinal tetras and discus. Which fish should I introduce to the tank first?

[Orange Crush]

If you get adult discus you have a much better chance of it succeeding with the plants and everything. You will need to QT any fish that will go in the tank that are from different batches/sources. Whatever fish you put in the tank first will need to be in that tank for at least 6 weeks before adding any other fish. I would advise having two tanks because any other fish you buy will have to be in a different QT tank. Also, when fish get sick you will want that 2nd tank for isolation and medicine, some meds can be very expensive to dose in a large tank and often times you wont want to expose healthy fish to the meds.

[strawberryblonde]

I don't know who you're planning to purchase from, so this may not help you, but last July I bought 4 additional discus from Discus Hans (a sponsor on these forums) and along with them I bought 25 cardinal tetras.

By buying them both from the same guy, a REALLY trusted and fantastic importer, I managed to avoid the separate QT process altogether. I think you might even be able to purchase a seeded sponge filter from him which he'd ship with the fish so you'd have an instant, ready to use tank while. Just toss the sponge filter in the tank and it'll take care of the bio load while your other filter is catching up.

You might also want to check with some of the other sponsors on here to see if they also sell cardinals as well as discus.

Ohhhhh, almost forgot to add that you'll want to purchase sub-adult discus for your tank instead of juvies. SO much easier to manage and better able to handle your tank style. =)

[son303]

I really appreciate your guys suggestions.