Discus Acclimation.....advice!

[xschug3]

I have 10 discus arriving tomorrow for a 125gallon tank. So far all that's in it is 30 cardinals and 3 sterba cory cats. Everything is doing well, looks healthy and feeding readily. All the fish have been in it now for over a week.
The tank is a stable 86F, the pH is at 6.5, 0 ammonia, 0 nitrite, 0 nitrate. How should I acclimate the discus when they arrive in the morning? What will be the safest way in terms of length of time, etc?

[PAR23]

I usually let it float for an hour with the bag closed and then just take them out and place into tank.

Is your tank cycled? Should read some nitrate.

[jimg]

new fish should always be kept separate for at least a month.
tank should be cycled or you have to do major wc's everyday until it cycles.
I float the bags to get temp somewhat same. check ph in bag as long as your ph is somewhat higher just put them in, if it's far off like 6.5 bag 8.0 your tank, add 1 cup water to their bag every 10 mins for and hour. lights off good air leave them alone.
it would have been best for you to ask and read about them before the day before your getting them. does your supplier offer advice?
good luck............

[discuspaul]

Please first tell us whether your tank was in fact properly pre-cycled. Has it only been set up one week, with the Cards & Cories added at the outset, or were the fish added a week ago, after the tank had been fully cycled ? The lack of any ammonia, nitrites, and nitrates may indicate a totally uncycled tank, or if it had been cycled beforehand, it may indicate there is no nitrates presence due to your doing large, daily wcs since adding the fish.
Once we know this, we can then deal with your discus acclimation.

[DiscusDrew]

While the methods listed above will work and are very quick and easy I have always used a drip method. When the fish comes in I float the bag for about 15-20 minutes, closed, just to adjust the temperature. Then I put the fish and its incoming water into a 1 gallon bucket and set up an airline hose drip that drips about 3-4 drops per second into the gallon bucket from the aquarium. When the bucket fills I discard half of the water and fill it with the drip one more time. Then I net the fish and put him into the QT tank. IMO the fish should be quarantined for about 4-6 weeks prior to being added to the main tank, just something to think about.

[Larry Bugg]

I would much rather get the discus out of the bag and into the tank as quickly as possible. Once you open the bag the water gets nasty and I don't want my discus sitting in that water longer than necessary. I plop and drop. I usually don't even float the bag. If they are coming from a reputable source that knows how to ship then the temp is going to be pretty decent and they can handle a small difference.

[Stuewart]

I used to do the floating bag method but in all honesty, the drip method is best. Get a small diameter airline tube, tie a knot in it, siphon water from your tank into the bags or a bucket with the discus in it, it should slowly trickle into the container, after the volume doubles, remove about half of the water from the container holding the discus, then keep siphoning from your tank (slowly dripping it in) and once it gets back to twice the original volume, Plop em in there :) This is probably a longer method but the care goes a long way. You should definitly consider a QT though. Good luck :)

[Stuewart]

Oh! and put an airstone in the container that is temporarily holding the discus. Just as a precaution.

[DiscusDrew]

Very true, honestly I've never tried it, I have some fish coming in tomorrow morning as well, perhaps I'll give it a go. Would you say the same advice given that I know for a fact that my TDS will be much higher than the source my fish are coming from? I have pretty hard water, they are coming from relatively soft water but the PH will be very close and given the shipper Im sure the temp will be quite close as well, within a few degrees which I know wont make a difference in the slightest. Your thoughts?

[DiscusDrew]

I disagree with the airstone part, additional oxygen being added to the shipping water will change the PH, the water I add is already PH adjusted but the shipping water will not be the same scenario. Just my opinion. My previous post was referencing Bugman's post fyi.

[Stuewart]

How will air change ph? Im curious

[xschug3]

The tank is fully cycled. The reason for a 0 reading of nitrate is because there's a very small bioload relative to the size of the tank. The tank has a 50 gallon sump with two biowheels and a total of 6 pre filters as well. It's been running for 4 weeks. The fish get fed only what they can eat and no food goes to waste or falls to the bottom of the tank and doesn't get eaten. I just performed a 40% water change yesterday which is probably why nitrates are reading 0. Discuspaul...you hit the nail on the head. I only used a test strip too, which isn't the most accurate to say the least. But nothing showed up. The tank cycled for 3 weeks with no fish in it, I then added a bottle of Dr. Tim's bacteria upon adding the first 12 cardinals, waited a week then added the remaining 18 cardinals and the cories. I simply added the bacteria just to guarantee seeding of the biofilter.

I was given advice from the supplier as to how to acclimate them, I just wanted other's opinions. It was recommended by him to add 2 cups of tank water to their water every 10 minutes for 30 minutes, then net them out and place them in the tank 1 by 1, making sure to leave the lights off for the rest of the day.

Thanks for the input everyone.

[DiscusDrew]

It lowers the "carbonate hardness (Kh)" in the water, which in turn causes rise in Ph. Thats why we age our water, for instance, my water comes out of tap at 7.8, in 24 hours of being airated in a holding barrel and brought up to temp for water changes the Ph changes to 8.2! Big deal if it is happening EVERY day when you do a water change. In this case, the goal is trying to keep the Ph change very consistent and stable for the new fish, hence the drip. If the water in your main aquarium is airated then there is no need to add airation to the acclimation bucket. At least that is my understanding and my opinion. Im no scientist but I do know that airation (depending on your water) can cause a change in Ph, and for a new fish coming in, which has experienced a Ph drop through the process of being shipped, the same thing applies.

[DiscusDrew]

Who is that shipper?....

[xschug3]

The shipper is Mac's Discus and that is an accurate statement regarding a pH change due to aeration.

[Larry Bugg]

Very true, honestly I've never tried it, I have some fish coming in tomorrow morning as well, perhaps I'll give it a go. Would you say the same advice given that I know for a fact that my TDS will be much higher than the source my fish are coming from? I have pretty hard water, they are coming from relatively soft water but the PH will be very close and given the shipper Im sure the temp will be quite close as well, within a few degrees which I know wont make a difference in the slightest. Your thoughts?

Even though a good shipper will refrain from feeding the day before bagging the fish still may excrete while in the bag. When you open the bag and expose the water to the air the ammonia in the bag becomes more toxic. You have the fish sitting in this toxic water while you are acclimating them. The number of experienced discus keeper that use the plop and drop method is quite high. They must know something. I use this method with all my shipments, which have been many, and never had a issue. With the really good shippers you wouldn't even think the fish had been in a bag for 24 hours. Going from a lower PH to a higher PH is much easier on the discus than the other way around.

[DiscusDrew]

So dont be concerned with water hardness?, plop him and drop him and if I have any gripes show up to the NADA convention and start screaming during your presentation? jk jk ;)

[ktm4us6]

DiscusDrew, I do agree with what you are saying, I ordered angelfish before, most looked good, some not. Started to slowly switch them over and a few where looking bad so I just put them in the tank anyway. All survived, and i think it was due to me just getting them in the tank.

[strawberryblonde]

I've always used the plop and drop method, and my pH is quite high, so I'm sure there is a notable shift for the fish to have to adjust to in my tank.

It's never bothered any of them at all. The only thing I do is check to be sure that the temps are nearly the same, and then I grab 'em, slide on over the tank and plop 'em right in. I use a net for smaller fish, but for my discus I use my hands. I just hold a small plastic bowl under my hand as I'm moving across the floor in case one of those slippery fella's manages to free himself from my grasp. LOL
'

[DiscusDrew]

Advice well taken, On the other end of the spectrum I'd say my way works great but all in all I see what you guys are saying and Im thinking tomorrow's order I might just give that a shot, I can see the advantages. As we all have our standard routines you must know how hard that can be to break, I've always had good luck with several discus tanks and orders with the drip method. But it should mean something that Im actually thinking of breaking that and just putting them in the tank. I mean its perfect water, in a way it makes sense that they would just want to be out of the bag.... I would want a room of fresh air all at once, not a little bit at a time.... haha ok no more drinking and typing... sorry I cant sleep I want my discus to be here .... good lord thats sad a little.....but not.

[PAR23]

It lowers the "carbonate hardness (Kh)" in the water, which in turn causes rise in Ph. Thats why we age our water, for instance, my water comes out of tap at 7.8, in 24 hours of being airated in a holding barrel and brought up to temp for water changes the Ph changes to 8.2! Big deal if it is happening EVERY day when you do a water change. In this case, the goal is trying to keep the Ph change very consistent and stable for the new fish, hence the drip. If the water in your main aquarium is airated then there is no need to add airation to the acclimation bucket. At least that is my understanding and my opinion. Im no scientist but I do know that airation (depending on your water) can cause a change in Ph, and for a new fish coming in, which has experienced a Ph drop through the process of being shipped, the same thing applies.


The shipper is Mac's Discus and that is an accurate statement regarding a pH change due to aeration.

I have to respectfully disagree with your explanation for pH change with aeration. CO2 is gassed off during aeration thus leading to an increase in pH. It has limited if any effects on kH.

[tonytheboss1]

I would much rather get the discus out of the bag and into the tank as quickly as possible. Once you open the bag the water gets nasty and I don't want my discus sitting in that water longer than necessary. I plop and drop. I usually don't even float the bag. If they are coming from a reputable source that knows how to ship then the temp is going to be pretty decent and they can handle a small difference.


Even though a good shipper will refrain from feeding the day before bagging the fish still may excrete while in the bag. When you open the bag and expose the water to the air the ammonia in the bag becomes more toxic. You have the fish sitting in this toxic water while you are acclimating them. The number of experienced discus keeper that use the plop and drop method is quite high. They must know something. I use this method with all my shipments, which have been many, and never had a issue. With the really good shippers you wouldn't even think the fish had been in a bag for 24 hours. Going from a lower PH to a higher PH is much easier on the discus than the other way around

:bandana: ++1 There was much debate about 2 months ago but I settled on the 'plop & drop' to get them out of the nasty shipping water quickly. 8 beautiful Stendker Discus from Hans were one by one held over a bucket, poured into a very fine mesh net & then into my 125g display tank. I believe 2 or 3 played 'dead' laying flat out for about 10/15 minutes, the rest were swimming in & out of the plants & driftwood straight away. No problems No worries. "T"

[mdj131]

Another advantage of the plop and drop method is that it gets them out of the blue, drugged water faster. While all of the other things mentioned about the benefits of plop and drop are true, this one reason alone should be enough. What I am getting at is this... imagine you are in a room full of sleeping gas, and you have a chance to exit the room, but only into a room that is not ideal, may take some adjusting to get used to, but is NOT full of sleeping gas.

Can't get to the door fast enough, right? I'm sure the Discus would agree, getting out of toxic sleeping gas is more important than temp or ph, unless the temp and ph would kill the fish... because the sleeping gas WILL kill the fish given time to do so.

I am no pro, I got this advice from one and it seems solid to me... individual results may vary :)

[DiscusDrew]

Well I recieved my fish this morning and upon inspection I decided to float the bag closed only for about 10 minutes to bring the temp up (it was a little low for my liking) and then used my hands to plop and drop into the new water. This was only about 10 minutes ago but they are alive and seem better than they were in the bags, I'll keep you guys updated but so far the plop and drop may have actually been responsible for these two surviving...

[jimg]

I have to respectfully disagree with your explanation for pH change with aeration. CO2 is gassed off during aeration thus leading to an increase in pH. It has limited if any effects on kH. +1

[Altum Nut]

Totally agree with Larry. It's the only method I use and never had any issues.
Give them time till the drug wear off....(Bag-buddies) just to clarify and don't feed till the next day.
In the event where your ph was drastically lower than your supplier that's reason for concern.

...Ralph

[ktm4us6]

I think you have to use your own judgement on doing it slow or just plopping them in. Just looking at the fish will tell you a-lot. Today my discus looked great, and ph was lower than my liking so i took my time.

[Skip]

Once u open bag... The new oxygen will cause waste to convert to ammonia..

drop and plop works best.. U want them out of nasty water asap.. Jus think which is worse..
so plop is fine..

But u should way more concerned that u are skipping qt and mix 10 discus with fish from other source...
So it wont matter if u float, drop/plop, drip..

[xschug3]

All 10 discus survived the transit and acclimation process. They all arrived stressed and showed signs of it (naturally) but nothing too serious. Ammonia levels were high, reading between 1-3 so I diluted their water quicker than I normally would. I probably would have done the plop method had their temperature not been so much lower than the tank temp which was at 85F. Their water temp was 78-79F which worried me. I floated them in the water with the bag open and every few minutes I'd cup out their water and add fresh tank water to slowly bring the bag temp up. I did this over a 45 minute period until I had removed most of the bag water and it was diluted with tank water. I then placed them in the tank one by one.
Three hours later, all 10 fish were moving around the tank showing no signs of stress or sickness. 6 of the 10 were even coming to the surface showing signs that they were willing to accept food. Had the temperature been ~82F I would've done the plop and drop method because of the ammonia levels. I figured diluting the water with fresh tank water would be the best option because it would dilute ammonia and slowly raise the temperature of their water in the bag.

[Skip]

so no qt?

[Orange Crush]

I realize that you have already got your fish and put them in the tank but I want to stress the importance of "plop and drop" method.

Slowly adding water to acclimate fish that have been shipped is the old way of doing things. Most of us were taught this, and it made sense to us based on what we knew at the time. However, the ways of fish husbandry changes because we know more now than we used to. Many long term, experienced fish keepers have found a better way based on trial and error.
When you get fish from your LFS it is fine to slowly acclimate them in the bag if needed because, they have not been in the bag long enough to produce enough waste that makes the water toxic once the bag is opened and exposed to oxygen. If they have been shipped the ammonia level of the water in the bag will spike, sometimes to deadly levels, once the bag is opened. When fish are shipped it is best to leave the bag closed, float them to equalize temps (20-30 min is good), then plop and drop. The exception to this is a pH varience that could potentially kill them. If tank pH is higher that is not a big deal. It is of more concern if your tank water pH is more acidic than the pH in the bag.

[Orange Crush]

sorry I cant sleep I want my discus to be here .... good lord thats sad a little.....but not.
Not sad at all. I think most of us totally relate to this. :D

[PAR23]

. If they have been shipped the ammonia level of the water in the bag will spike, sometimes to deadly levels, once the bag is opened.

For clarification.......ammonia is always in the bag but in its non toxic form (ammonium) when the pH is low.....once the bag is opened and the pH is allowed to rise, that's when it converts back to the toxic form ammonia which is now harmful to the fish. This is the reason why many people keep their bags closed while floating.

[Chicago Discus]

If the Discus are coming from over seas directly to your location than get a bucket put the fish in the bucket with the water that they were transported in and get an airline tube with a shut off valve attached and slowly drip the tank water into the bucket when the water has doubled (about an hour)the fish should be netted out and plopped into the tank. I also use a towel over the bucket as not to spook. If the Discus are not on a long over seas journey then just check the PH and the Temperature of the bag water if there is not a huge difference then just plop in the tank with lights off a cover with a towel. If there is a big difference in the PH and the Temp. then just refer to the drip method. Remember going up in Ph is much better than going down.....Its just how I do this not the rule .............Josie

[brianyam]

It depends, if your just getting it from your LFS and the temp and water is the same, I just put the fish straight it. I never have any problems. Sometimes the fish start looking for food right off the bat. If the fish has been in transit for a long time and the bag feels like the water got colder (heat pads ran out) I put the bags in the tank for about 20-30min, and slowly take tank water and put it into the bag. I never had fish dying from introducing to a tank. Good to ask your supplier what are their water parameters (PH). If its basically the same as yours, i'd say just drop it on.

[Chicago Discus]

It depends, if your just getting it from your LFS and the temp and water is the same, I just put the fish straight it. I never have any problems. Sometimes the fish start looking for food right off the bat. If the fish has been in transit for a long time and the bag feels like the water got colder (heat pads ran out) I put the bags in the tank for about 20-30min, and slowly take tank water and put it into the bag. I never had fish dying from introducing to a tank. Good to ask your supplier what are their water parameters (PH). If its basically the same as yours, i'd say just drop it on.

I never ask i always test......Josie

[Eddie]

If the Discus are coming from over seas directly to your location than get a bucket put the fish in the bucket with the water that they were transported in and get an airline tube with a shut off valve attached and slowly drip the tank water into the bucket when the water has doubled (about an hour)the fish should be netted out and plopped into the tank. I also use a towel over the bucket as not to spook. If the Discus are not on a long over seas journey then just check the PH and the Temperature of the bag water if there is not a huge difference then just plop in the tank with lights off a cover with a towel. If there is a big difference in the PH and the Temp. then just refer to the drip method. Remember going up in Ph is much better than going down.....Its just how I do this not the rule .............Josie

+1

[DONTKNOWYET]

It's an old thread but I just noticed all of you pointing ammonia as a reason not to drip acclimate.
But can't one use products like Prime to temporary detoxify any ammonia and then proceed with drip acclimation, especially when the water stats are totally different? It doesn't take long before the old water is totally removed too, at least to the point of no measurable ammonia.
From personal experience when I don't drip acclimate, the fish tend to develop strange diseases in a while which I still think could be due to osmotic shock and lowered immune system because of all the stress involved. Since I started drip acclimating(years) I never "bought a sick fish". It's just annecdotal experience but I favor drip acclimation for that same reason.

[Skip]

http://img337.imageshack.us/img337/1169/necroposting.jpg

[a volar]

http://img337.imageshack.us/img337/1169/necroposting.jpg

LOL............

[DONTKNOWYET]

I don't get what you are trying to say...The information in the thread is relevant despite it being old.

[Chicago Discus]

It's an old thread but I just noticed all of you pointing ammonia as a reason not to drip acclimate.
But can't one use products like Prime to temporary detoxify any ammonia and then proceed with drip acclimation, especially when the water stats are totally different? It doesn't take long before the old water is totally removed too, at least to the point of no measurable ammonia.
From personal experience when I don't drip acclimate, the fish tend to develop strange diseases in a while which I still think could be due to osmotic shock and lowered immune system because of all the stress involved. Since I started drip acclimating(years) I never "bought a sick fish". It's just annecdotal experience but I favor drip acclimation for that same reason.

For me I wouldn't treat the bag water with prime, if the pirameters are way off you can use the drip method (with no prime)
Just tank water. I have used the drip method for years with no problems....just my opinion ........Josie

[DONTKNOWYET]

I don't use Prime when drip acclimating too but I haven't come across a shipment with more than 0.50-1ppm ammonia in the bag at the same time. But maybe it's an option unless there's a decent reason why not to.

[Crunchy]

I've tried this method successfully:

Use the air tube that usually comes from the airpumps to slowly fill the plastic bag with tank water. This should take about 5-10 minutes max.

It's little more work than plop and drop, but at least there is some acclimatization better than nothing i guess.

[Skip]

It's little more work than plop and drop, but at least there is some acclimatization better than nothing i guess.

Works great if fish are from lfs and you drive home

Shipping over nite. Small amount of watet.. better to get them out of dirty water asap

[Crunchy]

Works great if fish are from lfs and you drive home

Shipping over nite. Small amount of watet.. better to get them out of dirty water asap

Yes this is probably true. Depends how long the fish were kept. I get my fish from LFS max few hours from home.

If overnight, transfering quicker the better.