So , THinking of another Discus Challenge here at Simply...PLEASE READ!!

[brewmaster15]

Hi all,
Those that have been here awhile will remember the several discus challenges we have had here over the years...When we started doing them I had envisioned a yearly thing, but that was not practical and a bit costly...So its been awhile since we have had one..

I'm kicking around an idea for one thats a bit different than we have had in the past.. In the past we gave out a group of fish in the 2" size range and followed these fish for a year to see who could raise the biggest and best . These fish were donated in the first contest from my own Hobby raised stock, and the second contest they came from Kenny and Forrest's stock.. These contests worked great but to do them well we need about 75-100 fish. That gives us enough for 8-10 hobbyists. Its a big commitment on the part of the suppliers...and then we have to ship the fish which makes it costly. The nice thing is all the stock comes from one place and can be compared to each other easier.

So here is what I am thinking....A Hobby breeder contest where in the breeder sets aside 20 fry to raise out... and we follow these for the year. WE could open it to all Hobbyists breeders around the world that way..... I suppose we could also include hobbyists in the local vicinity of the breeder that can get some of these fry to raise. There would be no imported fish though. ..just tank bred locallly... People would register to participate...and I would assign them a forum sub-board where they would give us updates on the fish development, foods being fed etc. Since we don't have the same starting point in size as we did in the first two contests...I would propose that we have a window of registration of 2 months... June and July... The fish would have to go free swimming in that window, documented by photos... we would then know the exact age of the fish and can follow that fish out for a full year from the registration date.

Breeding Discus is often pretty easy, the pair does the work... but to actually raise a group out for a year...that is a challenge and commitment... I think alot of people here could benefit by watching a contest like this, and I think it would also give people a clear cut picture of what works best in raising discus... often the topic of great disputes here.

So... my next question is, who here would be interested in a contest such as this? I don't have all the details worked out, but I may have a small registration fee for participating and would try to provide trophies, awards and prizes as we have done in the past.

All thoughts are welcome...This is the developmental stage and I really would like everyone's input.

What I really like about this idea is that it would literally be a world wide event... since we aren't shipping fish there are no constraints on who can enter.


thanks,
al

[Second Hand Pat]

man Al, I would love to participate but the likeihood of getting a wild spawn in the June/July timeframe is small :(

[dpete9]

I have set my breeding tanks to tap with high TDS they continue to spawn but only a few eggs hatch.. I have been doing this until I return from my vacation at the end of June.. SO with some luck I will get some free swimmers in July.. That means.. I am interested.

[Trier20]

This sounds like a great idea and lots of fun to maybe participate in or even just follow!


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-Brandon

[vicdiscus]

I am interested for contest for raising discus.

[DiscusOnly]

Al

Interesting idea and I would be interested in participating. I am not sure how it would work out with different strains so you may need to do sub-categories.

I would probably participate with PE and or PB. If mine doesn't want to breed, I'll just call Hans up for a pair. LOL

Van

[ZX10R]

I like the idea but I don't do any breeding so I guess I can't join in :(

[Skip]

I like the idea but I don't do any breeding so I guess I can't join in :(

+3

[Larry Bugg]

I think it is a great idea Al and would certainly consider it. I have a concern though. Raising 20 fry to adult is really a huge committment. Instead of having them all in one tank like the first contest this would require several tanks to house 20 sub adult/ adults. If you are considering allowing others that live close to a local breeder to join the contest then purchasing 20 could be pretty expensive or if the breeder donated then 20 really limits the number of people the breeder could donate to. Is there a reason for 20? Would this be the final number to be judged or could we start with 15 to 20 with the idea to end up with 6 to be judged? Since we would be starting with fry there would certainly need to be some culling along the way. At what point would a non breeder need to procure the discus? 2 weeks free swimming, 1 month, 2 months?

All that said, I am working on fairly new pairs so it would be hit or miss as to whether or not I have a spawn in June/July, but definitely interested.

[Bart V]

I would be willing to give it a try provided I could find some qualifying fry in the SE Wisconsin/Northern IL region to work on.

Looks like it would be a lot of fun!

[brewmaster15]

I think it is a great idea Al and would certainly consider it. I have a concern though. Raising 20 fry to adult is really a huge committment. Instead of having them all in one tank like the first contest this would require several tanks to house 20 sub adult/ adults. If you are considering allowing others that live close to a local breeder to join the contest then purchasing 20 could be pretty expensive or if the breeder donated then 20 really limits the number of people the breeder could donate to. Is there a reason for 20? Would this be the final number to be judged or could we start with 15 to 20 with the idea to end up with 6 to be judged? Since we would be starting with fry there would certainly need to be some culling along the way. At what point would a non breeder need to procure the discus? 2 weeks free swimming, 1 month, 2 months?

All that said, I am working on fairly new pairs so it would be hit or miss as to whether or not I have a spawn in June/July, but definitely interested.


Hi Larry,
Yes thats it exactly...I just threw out the number of 20 figuring there would be culling and mishaps along the way... plus, 20 is a good number of fry to start out with in maybe a 30 gal tank...then move on to a 55 as they get bigger and start culling down any runts and slow growers...Ideally I think by 2" a participant should have a group of 6-8 juvies to focus on raising to adults.

Thanks for the feedback and questions everyone....keep them coming.

I would add that the members here that want to participate but are not breeding ...find a breeder near you....rope them into this. Alls you need is to document the pair and frys age... Since the fry would not be shipped, if you are careful you should be able to transport a group of 20-30 dime size fry (several weeks old) without too much problem....I've had them shipped to me at that size with few problems...so a short travel should be okay.

-al

ps..
Van's idea is a great one.. Get a pair from Hans....problem solved!:D

oh yeah.. I just threw out the months of June and July....I am not fixed on this period, we could easily make it 3 months as well... JUne July and August... Heck we could make it a 6 month window... the only thing there is , the longer the enrollment...The greater amount of time we will have to wait to judge the fish as they will all need to be a year old.. but hey... theres no rush...I'd rather have many many participants in this...It could easily be a major, major discus project!:D

[Teshi]

This sounds very interesting. I don't breed fish but it's kind of a motivation to maybe start trying. I don't have any pairs and have just started with discus, getting my 6 from Kenny last month. So maybe not participate this time, but would be very interested in watching it all unfold. I know I'd get some valuable information if I ever did get a breeding pair.

I don't know any breeders closer to me or I would opt to try for the 20 fry. Any breeders close to Minneapolis?

[Second Hand Pat]

So would you guys be game to allowing me to start this like now. The Tefe pair have a set of wigglers now which should go free swimming today or tomorrow. If they successfully attach could this spawn be part of this contest? Wouldn't it be cool to track a spawn of F1 Tefe from wild parents :)

I do have a short video of this spawn.

[TURQ64]

I may be in on the RT/SS end, but I'm off for six weeks in that window, so there wouldn't be anyone to tend the fry..I'll see what gives..still interested...

[dpete9]

Any breeders close to Minneapolis? Ha My favorite city. Even though I live in Europe now for 2 yrs I still consider Mpls My home.

[rdiscus]

I prefer the contests in the past

[dpete9]

I'm going to make the first offer to My Euro-friends. If one or two of my pairs spawn during that time frame I will donate 20 fry to anyone living in Netherlands, Belgium or Germany and willing to travel to Maastricht to pick them up.

[Chad Adams]

Al,

I would be definitely interested.
I would also be willing to sell fry from the Ring Leopard/Fire Reds for 1/2 price as a donation to anyone entering this contest only. Hopefully this would make it more affordable to some. Could easily have a huge spawn ready to go during month of June/July for anyone wishing to enter.

Chad

[rdiscus]

I love that idea Chad, we need all fish in contest come from same source ... and i love your '1/2 price' ... I'm in this one ...

[Second Hand Pat]

I love that idea Chad, we need all fish in contest come from same source ... and i love your '1/2 price' ... I'm in this one ...

That is not what Al's opening post implied.

[Chad Adams]

That is not what Al's opening post implied.

Right, I don't think the fish need to come from the same source, strain or anything like that.
That way people from all over can enter.

Chad

[brewmaster15]

So would you guys be game to allowing me to start this like now. The Tefe pair have a set of wigglers now which should go free swimming today or tomorrow. If they successfully attach could this spawn be part of this contest? Wouldn't it be cool to track a spawn of F1 Tefe from wild parents

I do have a short video of this spawn.

Pat, I have no problem with starting this sooner.:D

Chad... Thats very generous my friend...thanks for the offer to the hobbyists near you.



I love that idea Chad, we need all fish in contest come from same source ... and i love your '1/2 price' ... I'm in this one ... I think you are misunderstanding my purpose here.. Its not necessary to have them from the same source for this contest. The fish will be judged as if they were at a show.. color, shape, size, pattern etc. This is not a contest to see who can grow the biggest and best from one spawn....... we did that in the first contest., and we did it again in the second. They were great contests.


This is to see who can take a group of fry from juvie to adult best and have these fish judged as if they were in a show. It also will show what it takes to actually do this, which for all thats often written here... few hobbyists have done. The value in being able watch and learn from this will benefit everyone..People often say they have bred discus... this will give them bragging rights that not only could they breed them, but they could commit longterm and raise them well too. Personally I think there will be alot of people that will finally "get it" as to what works and what doesn't. And I think alot of people will leave the contest feeling like they ran a marathon and were lucky to finish....but for others... like the ones that cross that line ahead of the pack... that'll be one heck of an accomplishment to be proud of.... This will be the IRONMAN/WOMAN of DISCUS Contest!

-al

[Chicago Discus]

Im In just get the details worked out and I will hold back one of my spawns in June or July for this contest, this should be real interesting and educational for us all........Josie

[Skip]

if the contest comes around.. and i can find some little guys.. i will get in on this.. ;)

[PAR23]

Cool idea Al.

Maybe we can start a list of all the breeders and their location who are going to be entering this contest so non breeders like myself can also pick up some juvies to enter.

[TCT]

I love that idea Chad, we need all fish in contest come from same source ... and i love your '1/2 price' ... I'm in this one ...

Ryan,

You're a home breeder yourself, why would you go buy fish from Chad? You could enter this contest with your own fry easily.

[Skip]

TCT.. what about you.. any fish spawns lately.. my LSS are still doing great!!

[John_Nicholson]

Great plan. If I can get up and running by then I want in.....LOL.

-john

[rdiscus]

Ryan,

You're a home breeder yourself, why would you go buy fish from Chad? You could enter this contest with your own fry easily.

I love new strain for contest ... :) everyone know the real time frame for fish i get ...

[Eddie]

Wow, thats an amazing idea! Got me thinking about nixing the Stendker order and going for the big guns! Hmmmm.....much to think about. May just go for a pair anyways! :) Al's got me all roped into this one! LOL

[Teshi]

Was just wondering. Could it be divided for TOTAL newbies and those more experienced?

[rdiscus]

Was just wondering. Could it be divided for TOTAL newbies and those more experienced?

LOL ... You and me have same number of post, so we're same board ... :)

[Lenin]

I don't think the number of post would be a good indicator, just look at Warlock

Too much free time

[Teshi]

No I didn't mean post wise. I meant I've NEVER had or tried to grow out fry. Never had a fish spawn etc. I am a TOTAL newbie. I've only had Discus since like Feb.

[Second Hand Pat]

The hard part of this is finding folks to do the final judging. But this will be a lot of fun, and ton of work but very rewarding in both regards.

[DonMD]

I've got 3 29gallon, 1 46 gallon and 1 55 gallon tanks all empty right now (except for water). My new stendker fish won't be ready to breed by this time frame, but if I can get some fry locally, I'd be interested. A lot of work, that's for sure, and I can just see it now: I get started with this challenge, and then end up with three pair in my display tank suddenly deciding to get busy . . .

[Skip]

HA!!!!!!!! funny LENVOR!! i just hooked u up with a MEGA DEAL! and this is how you repay me..! :)

[Second Hand Pat]

I don't think the number of post would be a good indicator, just look at Warlock

Too much free time

Yea, what happened Skip, you were suppose to pass me up. You are slacking off dude.

[Skip]

Yea, what happened Skip, you were suppose to pass me up. You are slacking off dude.

apparently you have more to say then i do.. ;)

[Second Hand Pat]

apparently you have more to say then i do.. ;)

nah, you're just slacking

[Lenin]

Yes, but by making that comment you now have the chance to give yourself more posts, see how that works

There's the love

[vicdiscus]

How can I join for the contest for raising the fry?

Thanks

[Cameronv]

I don't think the number of post would be a good indicator, just look at Warlock

Too much free time

lmao..

This seems like a lot of fun. The only problem is getting fry + shipping, especially when your a broke college student spending all your money on already expensive stock from SD forum. Love this idea though, it really pulls the SD community together. It will be very interesting to watch everyones personal method of raising stock.

[shoveltrash]

I think it's a great idea - fun for me to follow, as I have no breeding plans....yet!

[pcsb23]

Be interesting to see how a novice from the UK does in this challenge - after all it is Ryder Cup year :bandana:

[LizStreithorst]

I'm in if the fish cooperate. I'll be putting a pair or two in the breeding cubes right after I get back from NADA.

If the fish don't cooperate or a judge is needed more, I volunteer to judge. After NADA I will be properly trained.

[DiscusOnly]

Now that I think about it more. Since folks are providing their own fish, any sponsors want to sponsor/promote their food?

[ockyra215]

Sounds like a great idea! It would be interesting to see everyones methods in raising fish for a year. I agree with Van we may need strain specific categories. I am in!

[NoMondays]

My current (6) RW's are reaching towards +12 mos old. Tomorrow I expect to receive an additional group of 5" from Kenny's... so . . . m.a.y.b.e. June or July might pan out (I hope).
Regardless of my eligibility to join in the fun, I will definitely follow the progress reported by all participants.
Stan

[nc0gnet0]

Sounds like alot of fun...I'm in.

sounds like a few details to work out yet. Couple of questions.

1) If you say have a large spawn of 100+ fish (just throwing a number out there) at what point do you need to choose the twenty?
2) Are there going to be milestones in which you are required to choose which fish you want to work with? Personally I think this would be a great idea. For instance by 2 months you need to be down to x number, then by 4 months x number, etc.
3) Final judging criteria. Are all the fish going to be in the same group judging a red turq against a Pigeon blood, or will there be sub groups, then a best in show so to speak?
4) Documentation, contestestants should be required to post updates with pictures on a predetermined minimum interval. Failure to do so might result in disqualification (at the judges discretion).

And finally, is a breeder that is trying to accomodate local members with fry to raise allowed to have more than one spawning pair? And if he does is he required to only raise fry on one of those pairs? Reason I ask is say I have a spawn of say 60-80 fry. Of which I will most likely take the 20 best to work with. Already, anyone that gets the remainder is at a slight disadvantage, However if I have two-three pairs things change.

ps. This is going to take alot of dedicated web space ;)
Rick

[Harry Marsh]

I'm possibly interested. I have a lot of fry coming along in various stages

[JamesP]

Teshi,

There are a few people breeding in Minneapolis and or within a drive of the cities. I sell heckel crosses and GAry from SD has some very nice Turq's

Jim

[Teshi]

Teshi,

There are a few people breeding in Minneapolis and or within a drive of the cities. I sell heckel crosses and GAry from SD has some very nice Turq's

Jim
Oh awesome. Will you be having fry about the time of this "challenge"? Gary who?

[JamesP]

Al,

I really like this idea. I have raised several batches to full size and appreciate the task at hand. Here are some of the side effects that might happen to those who take on this challenge.
1. Fishroom will definitely need to be reorganized and possibly new tank/tanks.
2. With additional tanks a better water change system will be needed(phase one)
3. Feeding frequency will increase and will require many more trips to the fishroom.
4. More frequent feedings mean increased water changes and a bigger storage tank will be needed.
5. As fish grow larger, larger tanks will be needed.
I would encourage all to participate. Anyone with year old fish should be considered winners and will have bragging rights. Others who don't make it to a year will understand why larger fish cost as much as they do. But the most interesting thing I have experienced was a visitor to my house I posted about a couple of weeks ago.

It was good seeing you the other night. I hope the new guys or gals depending on theories are doing well. The fish in your photos are even more impressive in person. Funny this post came up today. I got a visit from the water department yesterday while I was out of town. My wife(CP Chief Procurement Office) spoke with them. They thought we might have a water leak either with the sprinkler system or somewhere in the house since my water useage was up to 90,000 gallons in the last few months. Heidi assured them there was one major leak and showed them the fishroom. The laughed and agreed they had found the source of the leak. I guess it is time for the reject plumbing project to begin Saturday. At least now the CP won't balk at the price of the plumbing material.



Bring on the contest,

Jim

[White Worm]

Great plan. If I can get up and running by then I want in.....LOL.

-john

I've been out of the game for a while but if you do, maybe you could ship me a batch to play with here in fort worth.

[spiffyfish]

man too bad i dont have more space or the money to do this, my tiger turks have spawned a few times in the past months but they are in a community tank and it would be my first go at actually breeding discus which would be cool. but unfortunatly i cant at this time, but if someone raises some nice fish like say some piwow red turks id be in to buying some when the contest is over.

[yim11]

I've been out of the game for a while but if you do, maybe you could ship me a batch to play with here in fort worth.

I didn't know you were just down the road!

[Kingdom Come Discus]

I live in central KY. I may have some fry to help out a few.

[dpete9]

I would also like to say thank you for opening this up to people outside of the U.S. as well!

[nwehrman]

Interested .... Will not try to breed before NADA though because baby care while gone a week is rough! Hmm or maybe I will give them their cones before I leave and come home to them swimming with Mom and Dad!!

Nicole


Nicole

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[JenTN]

I may have some fry then if anyone around TN is interested in growing out some hobbyist fry. Parents are Stendker Cobalts.

Sent from my Desire HD using Tapatalk 2

[deepflyball]

Al i would like to do this as well. Let me know Jerry

[Discusgeo2]

I might be able to join in. The fry from this pair went free swimming this morning 5/17/2012 when the lights were turned on. As long as they don't eat them.

http://i508.photobucket.com/albums/s323/13SouthwestDiscus/Spotted%205-17-2012/0005.jpg

http://i508.photobucket.com/albums/s323/13SouthwestDiscus/Spotted%205-17-2012/0007.jpg

[Second Hand Pat]

George, I am starting this early with you as my Tefe fry went free swimming yesterday and attachment is well under way. I have PMed Al for the documentation requirements.

[Discusgeo2]

I also have some fry from a Snakeskin pair a couple of days old also. I will get a photo of them this afternoon

[nc0gnet0]

If given a two month window it seems that it would be better to start this up in July-August to give those that don't currently have a breeding pair a chance to get together what they need. If the window is much larger than that it might get a bit confusing with people with 4 month old juveniles at the same time others have 3 day old fry? I dunno, just throwing that out there.....

Rick

[Second Hand Pat]

Rick, my problem is if I do not join now then I will most likely not be able to participate. I can not encourage my wild pair to spawn with a WC. I am sure the year timeline can be applied to everyone and once your documentation thread reaches a year it ends. The fish can all be judged at the end of everyone's year with the results recorded in each thread.

[JenTN]

One thing to think of is that NADA is smack in the middle of that two month window.

[chaoslite]

This would be very cool.

Mishka

[yim11]

Rick, my problem is if I do not join now then I will most likely not be able to participate. I can not encourage my wild pair to spawn with a WC. I am sure the year timeline can be applied to everyone and once your documentation thread reaches a year it ends. The fish can all be judged at the end of everyone's year with the results recorded in each thread.

If we adopt Als initial guidelines ("...I would propose that we have a window of registration of 2 months... June and July... The fish would have to go free swimming in that window") then your spawn isn't eligable. What if it gets pushed back till July/Aug? Your fish would be months ahead of all the other contestants.

[nc0gnet0]

Rick, my problem is if I do not join now then I will most likely not be able to participate. I can not encourage my wild pair to spawn with a WC. I am sure the year timeline can be applied to everyone and once your documentation thread reaches a year it ends. The fish can all be judged at the end of everyone's year with the results recorded in each thread.

Don't get me wrong Pat, I don't care either way. I, Like you, have some fry roughly the same age. But that doesn't neccessarily mean you can't participate, it just means you can't participate with that pair. I hope as many people as possible decide not to get fry from another breeder, but to give it a go with thier own pair. I am sure many would walk away not thinking why are discus so expensive, but rather, how do the breeders manage to sell them so cheap?

Rick

[nc0gnet0]

I just think from a management side of things, the larger the window, the more work.

[cooksa]

I love the idea! Now if only I could get my "pair" to get busy in their private suite like they were in the main tank...

[Second Hand Pat]

No problem guys, happy to withdraw. You do realize we are talking about a two week window.

[JenTN]

Don't get me wrong Pat, I don't care either way. I, Like you, have some fry roughly the same age. But that doesn't neccessarily mean you can't participate, it just means you can't participate with that pair. I hope as many people as possible decide not to get fry from another breeder, but to give it a go with thier own pair. I am sure many would walk away not thinking why are discus so expensive, but rather, how do the breeders manage to sell them so cheap?

Rick

Rick my fry are 2 wks old & I'm already wondering that lol.

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[Harry Marsh]

People around Charlotte, NC can contact me. (haven't seen anyone on here)

I have Alex Piwowarski Red Turk babies pretty consistently. We could throw those in the mix :)

[Skip]

aww.. i kind of miss the old way..
it was pretty exciting.. for chance to get name picked.. and then the contest.. :) :)

but i am been pumped for this to come back!!

[yim11]

I like the way it was done before also, gives everyone a even playing field to get started. There was a LOT of cost in that - with the donation of the fish, medications by Al, shipping, etc. I think that if it was ever done that way again maybe potential applicants would have to agree to pay for some or all of the cost?

[Harry Marsh]

I like the way it was done before also, gives everyone a even playing field to get started. There was a LOT of cost in that - with the donation of the fish, medications by Al, shipping, etc. I think that if it was ever done that way again maybe potential applicants would have to agree to pay for some or all of the cost?

Agreed.
The quality of fish can play so much of a role in this competition that it could be the deciding factor

[nc0gnet0]

The biggest problem with the old way is it greatly limited the number of contestants. Although having to pony up $400.00 if your name was selected might solve that problem.

Rick

[nc0gnet0]

Agreed.
The quality of fish can play so much of a role in this competition that it could be the deciding factor

Your in control of the quality of fish you want to work with. It really should be more about finishing the race and less about winning it. Just like a marathon. I think this was Al's intent.

[Harry Marsh]

Your in control of the quality of fish you want to work with. It really should be more about finishing the race and less about winning it. Just like a marathon.

True. But it might be less of a marathon than a factor of who can buy the best quality fish to start with (assuming two people work hard with water conditions and feedings)


Maybe you're right: $400 entry fee and buy from one quality source.

I hate reading about contest fish that have all died from a negligent owner, too. The entry fee will keep out those that aren't serious and know what they're doing (or willing to put in time/energy)
And I'm not insinuating that accidents don't happen.....but it's a shame to hear about failing heaters or water changes or whatever numerous excuses I've read about in the past

[nc0gnet0]

I disagree. While top quality fish might improve your chances, it doesn't gurantee it. And while your fish might not be judged the best, you can still compare your growth rate etc with others and compare methods. In all honesty, I think this is a great idea, perhaps better than the last contest, just needs to be defined a bit yet. If a yearly event it could really encourage more people to try thier hand at breeding as well. First year would be some growing pains I am sure, but long term I think this could evolve into something alot more than the previous format.

[Discusgeo2]

With thousands of Discus sold on this forum over the last few years I am sure that has to be more than 3 or 4 of us who have breeding stock. My own stock is from some old pairs I had back when I was bringing in my own fish and not from here so I know what I have. Where have all these Discus gone from all the sponsor's that sell out every month to month ? Even Discus that are sold and not from sponsors usually sell out! There just has to be more Discus spawning than my 3 pair with fry and a couple of other folks who show them off.

[Harry Marsh]

I disagree. While top quality fish might improve your chances, it doesn't gurantee it. And while your fish might not be judged the best, you can still compare your growth rate etc with others and compare methods. In all honesty, I think this is a great idea, perhaps better than the last contest, just needs to be defined a bit yet. If a yearly event it could really encourage more people to try thier hand at breeding as well. First year would be some growing pains I am sure, but long term I think this could evolve into something alot more than the previous format.

You say you disagree.....but I think I agree with you.
Of course, top quality fish do not guarantee success. But, we're talking about a competition and 'winning' aren't we? Isn't that the point? Or, is the point to encourage breeding?
What importance do you give to lineage, quality, strain? 50%? and the remaining 50% to water quality and raising them?
If you start with discus from Something Phishy, you are going to end up with fish from Something Phishy. I don't care how well you raise them. They're probably going to look like footballs.
You start with fish from stendker, forrest, Alex Piwowarski, etc....you can be pretty negligent and eclipse the results from someone raising fish from Something Phishy. To some degree (don't know how much), it will be about how much you spend to start with. $10 fish from Something Phishy or $60.00 fish from Alex Piwowarski will make a big difference (most of the difference?)

So, I agree...you can still compare growth rate with quality fish. But you aren't going to 'win' or gain accolades
I suppose...it depends what we're trying to accomplish with this 'competition'. Are we comparing growth rates? Overall quality? None of the above and simply promoting breeding?

[nc0gnet0]

I think Al clearly defined what he wished to accomplish here:


Breeding Discus is often pretty easy, the pair does the work... but to actually raise a group out for a year...that is a challenge and commitment... I think alot of people here could benefit by watching a contest like this, and I think it would also give people a clear cut picture of what works best in raising discus... often the topic of great disputes here.


But, we're talking about a competition and 'winning' aren't we? Isn't that the point? Or, is the point to encourage breeding?

I think your putting to much emphasis on the "winning" part. Sure, winning would be nice, but finishing the race itself is an accomplishment. Many people run the Boston Marathon, are they all disapointed they didn't win (excluding one) or happy just to have competed?

Rick

[Harry Marsh]

Suppose it depends on the person

your idea of 'clearly defined' and my idea of 'clearly defined' must be different

Someone looking at the competition after a year and the 'results' fishes will wonder what created the best fish: quality to start with, water quality, feedings, etc
IMO, introducing numerous strains of numerous ages introduces so many variables that comparison will have little value: you won't be able to draw any conclusions from this 'competition' of what 'works best in raising discus'

If we start with a uniform age and quality of fish, those distinctions and conclusions may be drawn (or inferred)

[nc0gnet0]

IMO, introducing numerous strains of numerous ages introduces so many variables that comparison will have little value:

Isn't that exactly what they do at NADA?


you won't be able to draw any conclusions from this 'competition' of what 'works best in raising discus'

While you might not be able to draw a "conclusion" as you put it, you can most certainly ascertain what worked and what didn't.


If we start with a uniform age and quality of fish, those distinctions and conclusions may be drawn (or inferred)

The uniform age has already been addressed. Even if you were to get 100 Discus from the same source, are you trying to tell me they all have the same potential? There are always those that stand out from the rest, even from within the same spawn raised under the exact same conditions. There is not perfect way, but I believe this way opens it up to a larger group of people to participate.

[Harry Marsh]

Isn't that exactly what they do at NADA?

What is the relevance of this, at all, to this discussion? Is this a pure competition, now?

While you might not be able to draw a "conclusion" as you put it, you can most certainly ascertain what worked and what didn't.

How do you figure? If you start out with a poor quality fish, might the other factors not matter at all? No distinctions or conclusions are able to be drawn? Waste of time? You might be able to look at who failed and who didn't fail. But you're left wondering if it was the fish or the owner. The other way, you almost eliminate the question of whether or not it was the fish

The uniform age has already been addressed. Even if you were to get 100 Discus from the same source, are you trying to tell me they all have the same potential? There are always those that stand out from the rest, even from within the same spawn raised under the exact same conditions. There is not perfect way, but I believe this way opens it up to a larger group of people to participate.

True. True. But it's a much better 'tale' than any other comparison. Starting with one source...we'll be able to learn a bit from the hobby. Numerous sources, IMO, is a waste of time regarding any 'learning experience' for the hobby. If we're just here to encourage breeding: fine. But I don't know that we could draw much in term of comparison or a learning experience

[Second Hand Pat]

pontiac_baron, you get nothing out of the journey do you. This is what it is like for me and winning is not the point.

It is the thrill of watching your fry turn from free swimming into little discus, then growing larger, developing color and turning into sub-adults, then adults that take your breath away. It is about the daily effort of water changes, feeding the little buggers numerous times a day. Having them eat from your fingers and follow you all over the tank. One day maybe watching them float over the cones making runs for the next generation.

The human part is about the exchange of ideas, sharing the joy of healthy discus or reaching out to each other with the pain of sick discus and helping each other restore the discus to a healthy state. For the folks watching it is about learning and thinking one day they may like to try their hand too at raising discus and watching the butterfly emerge from the moth of a fry.

[Harry Marsh]

pontiac_baron, you get nothing out of the journey do you. This is what it is like for me and winning is not the point.

It is the thrill of watching your fry turn from free swimming into little discus, then growing larger, developing color and turning into sub-adults, then adults that take your breath away. It is about the daily effort of water changes, feeding the little buggers numerous times a day. Having them eat from your fingers and follow you all over the tank. One day maybe watching them float over the cones making runs for the next generation.

The human part is about the exchange of ideas, sharing the joy of healthy discus or reaching out to each other with the pain of sick discus and helping each other restore the discus to a healthy state. For the folks watching it is about learning and thinking one day they may like to try their hand too at raising discus and watching the butterfly emerge from the moth of a fry.

If you make those conclusions regarding me from what I've posted: I suppose I'm not relaying my points properly.... or I've got some misconceptions about how to spread pertinent, prudent information about this hobby

I'll back of this discussion and leave it to those of you that make more sense than me.

Regards

[Second Hand Pat]

Sorry, I do not mean to make you mad.

[kent1963]

I like Al's original idea. I can see how it would work. If you start with a 2-3 month window and you document free swimming you can set a judging date thats the same for everyone ( say 12 months from free swimming). Submit your photos at that date and we judge them after the challenge is over. This way everyones fish are very close to the same age at judging regardless of their actual age.I would love to follow this even though I probably could not participate.

[Harry Marsh]

Sorry, I do not mean to make you mad.
Maybe you don't mean to do so: but you do

You're making ad hominem comments regarding my personal beliefs and thoughts: when you have no idea what they are. And this is a thread about a 'discus challenge' to allow the hobby to progress and show others what works and what doesn't work. I'm discussing those topics with InCognito when you make this personal, for no reason? IMO, you've made broad generalizations based on a completely unrelated topic (this discus challenge)
I could sit here and create a few broad generalizations about your predilections; but I don't move that way. It's unfair, unkind, unrelated and unreasonable.

I'd bet I have more juveniles growing to adults in my tanks than most of the people here (being kind). I enjoy the fish coming to the top of the tank with the best of them...when I walk into the garage. There's nothing quite like it.

But this thread (again, IMO), seems to allude to what works and what doesn't work....and educating those as to what those practices are
If we can use a 'discus challenge' to education others as to what works and what doesn't work: that could create incredible value to the hobby.

My thoughts are merely that using wildly varied stock to begin with...won't create much value to that point (to show what works and what doesn't work)
If that isn't the point of this discus challenge, I should sit down and drink alone :)

[cjr8420]

If you make those conclusions regarding me from what I've posted: I suppose I'm not relaying my points properly.... or I've got some misconceptions about how to spread pertinent, prudent information about this hobby

I'll back of this discussion and leave it to those of you that make more sense than me.

Regards
this is what i got from everything it is about GROWING out a baby discus to an adult which lots of people have never done or not done properly.like rick said a marathon to see how everything turns out from different people.any breeder coments where to supply the possible contest.and i bet ur Alex Piwowarski Red Turks in the care of random people from an inch or less.will have a few good ones, a bunch of stunted ones ,and alot of dead ones.back to the marathon tryin to get to the end with nice fish

[Second Hand Pat]

Maybe you don't mean to do so: but you do

You're making ad hominem comments regarding my personal beliefs and thoughts: when you have no idea what they are. And this is a thread about a 'discus challenge' to allow the hobby to progress and show others what works and what doesn't work. I'm discussing those topics with InCognito when you make this personal, for no reason? IMO, you've made broad generalizations based on a completely unrelated topic (this discus challenge)
I could sit here and create a few broad generalizations about your predilections; but I don't move that way. It's unfair, unkind, unrelated and unreasonable.

I'd bet I have more juveniles growing to adults in my tanks than most of the people here (being kind). I enjoy the fish coming to the top of the tank with the best of them...when I walk into the garage. There's nothing quite like it.

But this thread (again, IMO), seems to allude to what works and what doesn't work....and educating those as to what those practices are
If we can use a 'discus challenge' to education others as to what works and what doesn't work: that could create incredible value to the hobby.

My thoughts are merely that using wildly varied stock to begin with...won't create much value to that point (to show what works and what doesn't work)
If that isn't the point of this discus challenge, I should sit down and drink alone :)

I make NO personal remarks regarding you. Only about what the journey means to me. Sorry to interrupt your discourse with Rick. Now back to the marathon.

[Harry Marsh]

this is what i got from everything it is about GROWING out a baby discus to an adult which lots of people have never done or not done properly.like rick said a marathon to see how everything turns out from different people.any breeder coments where to supply the possible contest.and i bet ur Alex Piwowarski Red Turks in the care of random people from an inch or less.will have a few good ones, a bunch of stunted ones ,and alot of dead ones.back to the marathon tryin to get to the end with nice fish

Maybe that's where I'd disagree. I'd error on the side of more good ones than stunted ones (and no dead ones) from my Alex Piwowarski juveniles.
Is the general public that bad at raising discus? That we assume that they will kill 25% of them? And that the other 50% will be stunted?

Sad, if true. Maybe all the more reason for a discus challenge to learn something from

[cjr8420]

Maybe that's where I'd disagree. I'd error on the side of more good ones than stunted ones (and no dead ones) from my Alex Piwowarski juveniles.
Is the general public that bad at raising discus? That we assume that they will kill 25% of them? And that the other 50% will be stunted?

Sad, if true. Maybe all the more reason for a discus challenge to learn something from
i think its worse than that from the general public even more so when u add young discus factor why do u think its recommended to get 3-4" fish for newbs it is so they dont kill them right away lol.yes sad but true and haveing it all documented here with pics and updates and such i think would be pretty cool

[Harry Marsh]

i think its worse than that from the general public even more so when u add young discus factor why do u think its recommended to get 3-4" fish for newbs it is so they dont kill them right away lol.yes sad but true and haveing it all documented here with pics and updates and such i think would be pretty cool

Sadistic! I'd be interested in watching that :) It would be very interesting, if true! Sad, but interesting....

[Skip]

No Wire Hangers!

[Teshi]

I'll go back to saying we need to have 2 groups.. experienced and newbies. Newbies would get what they thought would be good fish... Experienced would get what they KNOW to be good fish!

[nc0gnet0]

No Wire Hangers!

Joan Crawford has risen from the grave! :)

[Cevoe]

The first challenges sucked me into the hobby and this forum and I followed them from start to finish.
I liked the original formats and how the months unfolded.
This alternate format will allow for a broader stroke on more levels.
Hopefully we will see different people from around the world, different strains represented and the differences of how everybody practices raising discus.
To open it up you have to sacrafice the same strain format to make it logistically possible and I don't think that's a bad thing.
Personally, I look forward to seeing the progression of how it will unfold from person to person.

[Lenin]

Hell if I can get some new fry I'm in, I'm been pretty much already been doing it.

[ockyra215]

Well IMO if the contest was run in one of two ways
If the contest were to be run as Al has proposed it would need to be broken down into sub groups by strain
for example three guys are doing Penangs eruptions and one guy is doing an Albino strain I think to make it fair it would be broken down into into groups so it be more fair

If it were going to be run the old way sorta speak I totally agree a flat fee for the fish shipped from a reliable source. SOunds good to me also.

This is just my two cents for whats its worth.

I do agree the first two challenges were very interesting to watch! My only gripe with it was that the contestants are supposed to weekly post and a lot didnt I think if it you dont post to keep eeveryone up to date it should be held against you. It is a contest and rules should be set into place! No matter what format is used! Once again jusst my two cents !

[Cevoe]

If the fish are judged using the University points system then points would be points.
A discus earning 7 points would be just that; a 7 point discus.
It wouldn't matter the strain since they are judged according to a standard of what that strain should be.

[ockyra215]

Just as in any competition it is divided into groups such as spotted solid wild pigeon so on and so fourth! And then ofcourse a best of show over all champion. JMO ofcourse

[Cevoe]

If that is what the criteria is set at.
They all filter down into the best of show.
Typical competition comparisons can only be used if you are submitting one discus for one judgement per each specific category.
Not a group of fish grown over a set period of time.

[ockyra215]

Even in past challenges the contestants selected two fish for final judging.

[Cevoe]

Still not just one though and no class to consider since they were all the same.
I understand what you're saying.
I just happen to like the idea of a group score based on the University points system.
One mans opinion.

[ockyra215]

I can respect that !

[Cevoe]

Same here, Dave.
All that being said, we'll have to wait and see how it does go down once the ground rules are made.
I'm sure it will all get worked out.

[JenTN]

$10 says Al is banging his head on the wall right now :-D

Sent from my Desire HD using Tapatalk 2

[DiscusOnly]

Same here, Dave.
All that being said, we'll have to wait and see how it does go down once the ground rules are made.
I'm sure it will all get worked out.

Does this mean you are in the challenge once it is all worked out?

[Discusgeo2]

I think I will use this photo as a start since they went free swimming this week 5/18/2012 if this works for the rest of you.

http://i508.photobucket.com/albums/s323/13SouthwestDiscus/Contest%20Fry%20on%20Simply%202012/00022.jpg


This pair has fry on their side also I just haven't been able to get that photo with the fry in it. I will try again later today.

http://i508.photobucket.com/albums/s323/13SouthwestDiscus/Contest%20Fry%20on%20Simply%202012/0006.jpg

[Larry Bugg]

I think we all need to realize that Al has not said this is a done deal. He said he was considering it and if he went forward the details would still have to be worked out. I have no doubt that he wants very much to hear all of our suggestions, but we need to remember that in the end it is his forum and his decision to make. I am sure that he will keep us informed of the decisions and progress. I for one like his initial idea and am eagerly awaiting to here more details as they become available.

[Keith Perkins]

Be interesting to see how a novice from the UK does in this challenge - after all it is Ryder Cup year :bandana:

I can't believe no one commented on how hilarious this was.

I stay clear of the computer for a week and a half and come back to this, too cool. Great variation Al, something new and exciting. I'd totally trust you to decide how/if to divide entrants into groups depending how many you get etc.

[zimmjeff]

Better yet let's all go to the local fish store and start with some of those fish. Then we will see who does the best.

[Chad Adams]

I think we all need to realize that Al has not said this is a done deal. He said he was considering it and if he went forward the details would still have to be worked out. I have no doubt that he wants very much to hear all of our suggestions, but we need to remember that in the end it is his forum and his decision to make. I am sure that he will keep us informed of the decisions and progress. I for one like his initial idea and am eagerly awaiting to here more details as they become available.

+1

[trusty]

Very nice George I have some possible pairs just got my RO running Shoot very tempting guys..............

[trusty]

Wow......................

[PAR23]

$10 says Al is banging his head on the wall right now :-D

Sent from my Desire HD using Tapatalk 2

I say $20...

[vicdiscus]

I am just wondering if the challengers can contest for American only? what is about Canadain Challengers and Europe Challengers include England, Scotland, German, etc ?

I would like to know if Canadian challengers can get discus fish from the USA discus breeders ? Any concern about fish shipment from USA to Canada? What is about International?

Maybe if you like my idea... For America Challengers can get American Discus, For Canadian challengers can get Canadian discus? For International can get discus from Europian discus?

[dpete9]

I am just wondering if the challengers can contest for American only? what is about Canadain Challengers and Europe Challengers include England, Scotland, German, etc ?

I would like to know if Canadian challengers can get discus fish from the USA discus breeders ? Any concern about fish shipment from USA to Canada? What is about International?

Maybe if you like my idea... For America Challengers can get American Discus, For Canadian challengers can get Canadian discus? For International can get discus from Europian discus?

From what I read, the contest will be open to all people from around the globe (personally I really want to see some Europeans enter). I think you can get your juvies from wherever you would like as long as they were hatched in the time frame Al sets out (so far it looks like June or July). At least one European (me) will be entering :-)

[Rummy]

This will be a great reference tool for all of us. Thinking out loud...showing periodic water parameters, fish measurements, etc., would be very nice.
I think that even though we are starting with different stock, this contest will still prove extremely useful. If everyone understands that the outcomes may be quite variable, we will be able to learn about different techniques that are used to raise the fry. Perhaps, it should be made clear where the stock is coming from. That will help to even out the playing field. I.E. show quality, commercial, home bred, advanced aquarist vs. novice.
I am rambling. Just my thoughts.
I am looking forward to see how this progresses. Wonderful idea, Al.

[Skip]

so basically... the idea.. is to raise a batch of fry out in a year.. and submit for judging?!

is that jist of the discussion?

[brewmaster15]

Hi all,
Been off line the last few days, Sorry.. This time of year is incredibly busy for me and more so for personal reasons than norm.

Just read through all these comments...I'll add some thoughts now.

First back to contest 1 and 2. we all know they were great...and I would like to do that style again down the road. However there is more to consider besides the cost of the fish and shipping. There is also the risk to the sponsors. Asking them to come up with 70-100 2" -3" discus that are all the same strain and quality, its hard, and asking them to sit by while hobbyists of various skill levels raise these fish,often killing and stunting some, is alot to ask. Remember that these fish, though they were only sourced by the sponsor will still be Known as"Brews discus" "Hans Discus" "kennysdiscus" "Johns Discus" etc.... those viewing these fish with no other information may judge the sponsor unfairly. This is always a risk when you sell discus, but the risk is immensely magnified when all eyes are on this contest. This is something I have discussed with several sponsors when I was trying to put together another contest last year along the lines of the original contest, and the concern was raised. I think its valid.

Okay now to the proposal at hand, I'm glad to see we have had a really good and lively discussion. I was hoping to see something like that occur.The point was to give you all a chance to voice your views and concerns and ideas..

So ..how do we move forward with this?????...I realize the currently proposed format may be different that what we did before and since 9 pages have gone by, I'll summarize this and build on some of your concerns.

1) Judges, will be drawn from those not participating but fully qualified to judge fish.I should be able to find several individuals that can do that job. :) This judging will take place all at once...Doesn't matter if you entered the contest in month 1, 2 , or 3... It will take place at the end of month 3 but all fish will be judged based on 1 year of participation.

2)The previous contests used fish that about 1.5-2" TL. thats the smallest commercially available ... We actually tried in contest #2 to get smaller fish from Malaysia to the USA..less than 1" and I was not happy with the how the fry handled the long trip from Forrest to Kenny to me for distribution. So we went with larger ones. I really wanted smaller ones. The reason why is because 2-3 " discus are safe...If you spend even a little time reading here on Simply, There are less issues the older the stock... The real test of a persons skills in raising discus isn't taking a 2-3 inch fish to adult....Its taking a dime size fry to a 2-3 " ! Thats window is the hardest, IMO and IME. So the new contest style will give us both... Think about all that will be learned by watching people from around the country and the world raising fish from such a small size. It has the potential to put to rest many disputed methodologies and to educate anyone interested in breeding and raising fry..That alone is reason enough to do. It also encourages domestically bred fish... something I would like to see more of.

3) The window... Since we have had interest by several members immediately... I propose we start now..May 15 was the start date, the day I proposed this...The end date for enrollment is August 15. Thats about 3 months. That means the judging will held mid to end of August next year.

4) The documentation needed... Initial entries need to provide pics of the parent stock and frys that demonstrate what their age to be...Easy enough to accomplish by placing a current newspaper in the picture. Breeders participating should have no trouble with this. Members getting fry from some to work,need to ask the breeder to do this for them..It should not be a big deal. We will require a commitment of weekly updates by pictures at the minimum....videos would be great as well. WE also require disclosure of your methods...water changes, water parameters etc... Periodic posting of fish measured is encouraged. Participants that do not provide weekly updates will fall under the 3 strike method... Miss three weeks, consecutive or other and you are out...no exceptions. If others involved are taking the time and effort to update...so should you. I haven't decided on any fees yet...but if there are any, disqualified entrants forfeit them. Make no mistakes....this contest will require your participation and long term commitment.

5) The way to get enrolled.. You will need to send this documentation to me at brewmaster15@comcast.net IF accepted, I will create a sub board for you to document everything in. I've said this before.. This contest is open to everyone , thats the beauty of it... Members in America, Canada, Australia, Malaysia...etc etc... everyone can participate, so its truly a global undertaking. WE have many members from around the world that read here.If you are reading this, I encourage you to post about this event in your local forum if this allowed...Let them know about this.



5) The fish.. what I propose is starting with a group of 30 dime size fry or 2-3 week old fry...It really doesn't matter if they come from a spawn of 50, 100 or 300. The group starts at 30...and you document it... Dime size fry are roughly 2-3 weeks old...You can tape a dime or other similar sized object to the tank... By week 6 your fry will be apropriately 2 months old. At this point you would choose the best 8 fry to follow the rest of the year..All others should be removed from the tank.. You will be on your own honor system here...If you cheat by raising the others as well and pad your chances at the end of the year..we won't know... but you'll be cheating the forum's members and most of all yourself.

6)YOU MUST REPORT ANY ISSUES,DEATHS, THAT YOU ENCOUNTER AND MUST REPORT ANY CULLING ETC THAT YOU DO.This is part of raising fish and needs to be disclosed.

7)Entry Fees...This one I am not sure on. Part of me says we should have an entry fee, and that can go to trophies, awards and t-shirts...THoughts on this are welcome.

I'm also not sure how this will affect the forum's bandwidth usage....if lots of people participate and many vids and pics are being posted and viewed ...I need to look into that.

So thats where I am on this now...Nothing is carved in stone but I this the outline...Now If I could ask for your additional feedback, questions and concerns based on this...lets see if we can make this a reality.:D

Oh and one more thing...If you are not participating as a contestant here and want to help out...I am thinking of putting together a group to help monitor the contest, prod the participants, help me find and pick judges, awards etc. My time isn't what it used to be, and I could use the help if you are serious. I often get offers of help, but something like this is a big commitment....so be sure you can help before you offer.

thanks,
al

[DiscusOnly]

7)Entry Fees...This one I am not sure on. Part of me says we should have an entry fee, and that can go to trophies, awards and t-shirts...THoughts on this are welcome.


This is great Al. I will see what my pairs throw me but if there are decent size spawn, I'll be more than happy to provide the additional frys for others to enter at a small fee that they can put toward the forum for this contest. The date range for contest is a very good idea since some may be going on vacation in June/July.

Though a lot of work, I think this is going to be a great contest that participants will get a lot of good experience.

Van

[ktm4us6]

I'm growing out 14 2-3" does that count. lol

[brewmaster15]

I'm growing out 14 2-3" does that count. lol nope..sorry... but it doesn't mean you can't start a thread in the photo gallery and do weekly updates and disclosure of all the parameters etc. :)

-al

[nc0gnet0]

Are entrants limited to one group of fish or can they have multiple entries? I am assuming only one, but for those of us with multiple pairs/spawns, are we allowed to document multiple spawns then choose one to work with when they reach 6 weeks?

If May 15 was the start date then spawns documented before then are ok as long as they have not reached dime size correct? The only issue I see with this is different peoples interpretation of "dime" size. Free swimming day is an absolute.

Hope that isn't too confusing.

Rick

[JenTN]

Since it's starting now, I have 3 week old fry ready now in TN if anyone is interested. Pics and documentation are in my homesteader thread. A simply member was at my house this weekend and can verify this if needed Im sure. Stendker Cobalts.

[Second Hand Pat]

Al, question on the date requirement. I have two videos of the Tefe fry I would like to include in this contest. In youtube I have two video's, one at one day free swimming and one at three days free swimming. The video's have a date stamp as recorded by youtube. Will links to these video's satisfy the proof of date requirement?
Thanks,
Pat

[JenTN]

Al, question on the date requirement. I have two videos of the Tefe fry I would like to include in this contest. In youtube I have two video's, one at one day free swimming and one at three days free swimming. The video's have a date stamp as recorded by youtube. Will links to these video's satisfy the proof of date requirement?
Thanks,
Pat

+1

[brewmaster15]

Are entrants limited to one group of fish or can they have multiple entries? I am assuming only one, but for those of us with multiple pairs/spawns, are we allowed to document multiple spawns then choose one to work with when they reach 6 weeks?


Rick

Rick,
I'm fine with multiple entries if all the guidelines are met and the spawns are different parents.


If May 15 was the start date then spawns documented before then are ok as long as they have not reached dime size correct? The only issue I see with this is different peoples interpretation of "dime" size. Free swimming day is an absolute.

Hope that isn't too confusing.
Rick, I'm not sure it matters....when you are talking about a contest that goes for as long as this, and starts as early on in age of the fish.. a week early or latter is not necessarily a deal breaker. The free swimming date may not be availible if the hobbyist was not the one that actually bred the fish....thats what I suggested the Dime taped to the tank. If this were a scientific experiment I would say absolutely, but what we are trying to do is normalize the groups as much as reasonably possible...at least thats my thought... Others please chime in.

-al

[nc0gnet0]

If I am understanding this correctly, actuall age is not so much an issue as the start date for your batch would begin when they reach dime size Pat. it is only then that you would need documentation. As long as they have not reached that point, then you should be fine.

[brewmaster15]

Al, question on the date requirement. I have two videos of the Tefe fry I would like to include in this contest. In youtube I have two video's, one at one day free swimming and one at three days free swimming. The video's have a date stamp as recorded by youtube. Will links to these video's satisfy the proof of date requirement?
Thanks,
Pat
Yes Pat, especially since you had already contacted me about this batch, so I know how old they are. :) same with George as he posted about them here.

al

[brewmaster15]

If I am understanding this correctly, actuall age is not so much an issue as the start date for your batch would begin when they reach dime size Pat. it is only then that you would need documentation. As long as they have not reached that point, then you should be fine.

Rick,
Actually we would love the hard details here on the pair and fry... but for contest purposes Pat will need to pick 30 dime size fry or fry that 2-3 weeks old (tape dime to tank for reference)
-al

[JenTN]

Rick,
Actually we would love the hard details here on the pair and fry... but for contest purposes Pat will need to pick 30 dime size fry or fry that 2-3 weeks old (tape dime to tank for reference)
-al

Al, mine are 1/2 inch, documented in below picture, could mine be included?

[brewmaster15]

Al, mine are 1/2 inch, documented in below picture, could mine be included?

Jen, how old are they? and do you have thirty to work with?

-al

[JenTN]

Jen, how old are they? and do you have thirty to work with?

-al

3 weeks freeswimming, I have around 100 :-) I had a local member that contacted me who is interested in the challenge. Not sure if I myself am going to enter or not yet. They are a nice group though.

[brewmaster15]

3 weeks freeswimming, I have around 100 :-) I had a local member that contacted me who is interested in the challenge. Not sure if I myself am going to enter or not yet. They are a nice group though.

Sounds like you or the other member qualifies... but you need to decide quickly as they are at the 3 week mark...you'll need to set aside 30 and start documenting everything. Let me know.

-al

[Skip]

man, i am not sure if i want the pressure of raising the little guys.. LOL..

much where to find some fry.. :/

[Second Hand Pat]

Al, here the video at 3 days free swimming. It is not a big spawn, maybe 30 to 35. The video shows both parents. Another interesting note is this brood is housed in my 230 display with a divider between the parents and the rest of the tank mates. Since these are wild green Tefe discus I am following Nandi's (NanDiscus) format for raising wild spawns. Nandi is one of my wild mentors.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j1t4m0YeD0Y&list=UUaeXQ_wwjMmbU52-KYBqNJg&index=2&feature=plcp

[JenTN]

Sounds like you or the other member qualifies... but you need to decide quickly as they are at the 3 week mark...you'll need to set aside 30 and start documenting everything. Let me know.

-al

Okay. If we don't get it together in time for these little ones, we can always try for another batch before the contest deadline. Thanks! I just thought it would be good with this batch since I have so many if anyone local wanted to take part in the contest :)

[brewmaster15]

man, i am not sure if i want the pressure of raising the little guys.. LOL..

much where to find some fry.. :/
Skip, no guts, no glory! Sure its alot of pressure at this size...but its great experience for anyone to try. Too often people breed a pair, but you never see the progression of development to adulthood. Instead theres alot big gaps in public knowledge, and that leads to many disagreements

The information we could potentially get out of a contest like this is priceless....not only to those that participate but to everyone watching and to our hobby.. Its a chance to truly improve the level of discus keeping and our knowledge base. Go for it man... you can handle it!:bandana:

-al

[Lenin]

Is there no rookie category?

[Second Hand Pat]

Is there no rookie category?

Lenin, I am a rookie

[Chicago Discus]

Al I have a batch of Pigeon reds that just went free swimming today and are being fostered by a pair of tefes i would like to enter them.....Josie

[Lenin]

But is there a category?


Lenin, I am a rookie

[Larry Bugg]

Al, the one suggestion I would make concerns the weekly post. This was one of the most difficult issues I noticed in the first two contest. Weekly could be real tough when we are talking about a full year. I think you might want to consider a longer period of time between post. Also consider that during the first couple of months a week can make a big difference but after that there isn't much noticeable difference in a weeks time. Just a thought

[Skip]

But is there a category?

maybe on strains..

but not rookie, newbie, expert or john nicholson category..

[Eddie]

Well, I won't be able to get into this one, due to timing and availability of fish but I wish I could have! Its gonna be a great contest for sure! I look forward to seeing the challenge unfold and if anything, I'll help with the judging. :)

[brewmaster15]

Larry,
thats a good point...suggestion then on whats more realistical? weekly for the first 3 months? then monthly?

Lenin,

No categories... its unlikely we get several entrants entering the same strains and the same age ..its juts not feasible. I know several have brought this up as something the contest needs..it doesn't though... its a different kind of contest than the first 2 were... and at the end whe we judge the fish... we'll have to modify the judging methods a bit....I've got to think more on that... much of whats currently accepted as criteria will still be used, but I we'll look at other details.. I 'll post on this latter, ideally, its one of the things that I would like that group of volunteer helpers I asked for to work on with me.

what we can do though is look at fish that are entered in the same age range and month..its a thought to work out though....as I am not sure it really is useful without standardizing the care and food...I think growth rates are really going to be all over the place here...actually I am hoping thats the case.

-al

[brewmaster15]

Well, I won't be able to get into this one, due to timing and availability of fish but I wish I could have! Its gonna be a great contest for sure! I look forward to seeing the challenge unfold and if anything, I'll help with the judging. :)
bummer but cool at the same time!

[vicdiscus]

I would like to do that but my last batch of babies are older than 2 - 3 weeks old. So far my 4 proven breeding pairs had spawn 13 times so far the eggs batches went to bad. I believe the water is something wrong.

I got email from CRD ( Capital Regional District)

Hi Duncan,

You are most welcome. I have heard that copper is toxic to fish at much lower levels than it is humans. Our water is well within guidelines for human consumption, but perhaps your eggs are more susceptible to the effects?

Best regards,
Jennifer

Hi Duncan,

The hardness of the water entering our distribution system (after treatment) is approximately 17 mg/L, TDS is around 27 mg/L, and the conductivity is approximately 40 uS/cm. These are median values when taken over the year. You can find data tables for our raw and treated water here.

I hope that answers your questions.

Best regards,
Jennifer

I am getting so frusrated with the eggs batches are not hatch. But The 4 proven breeding pairs had babies. Last time they were spawning, I saw the males run on the eggs were great job. So I am figured out and solve problems with my water parameter.

Duncan.

[Larry Bugg]

Larry,
thats a good point...suggestion then on whats more realistical? weekly for the first 3 months? then monthly?

-al

Weekly for the first three months might work. That's is when most of the change is taking place. I think going to monthly after that may be too long in between. You may lose people with that much time between postings. Maybe every other week or just not be as stringent on the 3 strikes after the first three months.

[nc0gnet0]

At the end of the contest are we to pick one fish from the group of eight to be judged, or will they be judged as a group, or both? Is this what your still working out Al?

[shoveltrash]

Anik's post
This will be a great reference tool for all of us. Thinking out loud...showing periodic water parameters, fish measurements, etc., would be very nice.
I think that even though we are starting with different stock, this contest will still prove extremely useful. If everyone understands that the outcomes may be quite variable, we will be able to learn about different techniques that are used to raise the fry. Perhaps, it should be made clear where the stock is coming from. That will help to even out the playing field. I.E. show quality, commercial, home bred, advanced aquarist vs. novice.
I am rambling. Just my thoughts.
I am looking forward to see how this progresses. Wonderful idea, Al.
+1!
I'm excited & not even competing LOL :jester:

[Eddie]

Not that I'm the decider but I think the top 3 fish of the group would be ideal. It is tough to grade the whole batch but it can be done.

[Keith Perkins]

Not that I'm the decider but I think the top 3 fish of the group would be ideal. It is tough to grade the whole batch but it can be done.

I guess my only question with this is is 3 going to be enough to be representative of the grow out method? Could a particular batch only having average care just have a few standouts that skew the results, where as a larger group wouldn't? LOL, I'm having memories of my college stat class from oh so long ago.

[Harry Marsh]

Anik's post
+1!
I'm excited & not even competing LOL :jester:

I could probably remedy that :)
And it would be an interesting comparison. Same fish, different city.
My city was soft water. Your city has hard water (I am guessing)

[Harry Marsh]

My entry (pending acceptance: I just e-mailed you Al)

Alex Piwow Red Turks.
These guys are 5? days free swimming


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c4G6shEKclE

I am a bit interested to see how these compare to other strains. Typically, the Alex Piwow fish develop slower than others (color, at least...maybe not size?)

[vicdiscus]

your fish is so lovely , perfect shape !!! i am sure the babies are nice one. I am curious where is the mom?


My entry (pending acceptance: I just e-mailed you Al)

Alex Piwow Red Turks.
These guys are 5? days free swimming


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c4G6shEKclE

I am a bit interested to see how these compare to other strains. Typically, the Alex Piwow fish develop slower than others (color, at least...maybe not size?)

[Harry Marsh]

your fish is so lovely , perfect shape !!! i am sure the babies are nice one. I am curious where is the mom?

Here is mom. She's a cheater with a different male in the garage :) (she gets very dark with fry)
Unfortunately, I only have one female, so she gets around! Searching for another


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=msFbmVFqhCY

[vicdiscus]

LOl she is so pretty. all your males love her that how you got bunch of babies:)

Well done with your job raised the babies!!!

cheers
Duncan


Here is mom. She's a cheater with a different male in the garage :)
Unfortunately, I only have one female, so she gets around! Searching for another


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=msFbmVFqhCY

[Rummy]

I guess my only question with this is is 3 going to be enough to be representative of the grow out method? Could a particular batch only having average care just have a few standouts that skew the results, where as a larger group wouldn't? LOL, I'm having memories of my college stat class from oh so long ago.

What if, for informational purposes, the size of each fish in the final group of 6-8 were posted at the time of judging? It would help us know about typical vs. standouts. I find myself asking that question... How often am I looking at typical vs. atypical results. It is human nature to show off those "atypicals" more frequently.

[dpete9]

I'm excited for this. I'm going to try a new pairing. Mother Brutis (aka. Albino 3R2) with Mr. Fertile (Redcover cross, albino gene). I hope they won't be hideous creations! I'll start them as soon as I return from vacation in July.

[ockyra215]

I would like to say I think weekly updates for the first three months and bi weekly. I think that was one of the disappointments in the first two contest were that there werent enough updates. I personaly like the three strike rule. We are all on this daily some of us are on more then once a day and if you are up to doing the contest Updates are key to the sucess of promoting breeding and what the contest is. If you cant do the up dates then maybe the contestant shouldnt register. Just my two cents! I really like where this is going I hope it goes full swing!!

[trusty]

I have some babies lol dime size right now

[Harry Marsh]

I like. Three strikes


I would like to say I think weekly updates for the first three months and bi weekly. I think that was one of the disappointments in the first two contest were that there werent enough updates. I personaly like the three strike rule. We are all on this daily some of us are on more then once a day and if you are up to doing the contest Updates are key to the sucess of promoting breeding and what the contest is. If you cant do the up dates then maybe the contestant shouldnt register. Just my two cents! I really like where this is going I hope it goes full swing!!

[brewmaster15]

Okay everyone, I'd like to set the contest section up.... Does any one have anymore questions, comments or suggestions. I'm trying to do my here to cover it and give everyone input.

1) Does 3 strikes you are out sound fair?
2) Does weekly posted updates for the first 3 months sound good?
3) Does every other week updates sound fair for fish that are 3 months and older?
4) Does anyone want to shoulder some of the work on the contest and be on the "committee", I have one so far. The catch is you obviously can't be on the "committee" if you are in the contest.
5) Does anyone have any thoughts or concerns on entry fees? prizes etc.

Also..I'll throw it out here publically, a note to all Sponsors... start thinking about how you can help ... I'll probably be hitting you up as either judges and/or asking for your patronage when the contest is over.:)


last note... Anik,

What if, for informational purposes, the size of each fish in the final group of 6-8 were posted at the time of judging? It would help us know about typical vs. standouts. I find myself asking that question... How often am I looking at typical vs. atypical results. It is human nature to show off those "atypicals" more frequently.

Anik
I think we can have the participants measure and report the length on all the fish in the group at the contest end...good info would be gotten that way.. but I think we should limit the actual Fish judged to 1 or possibly 2 per member. Any one else have thoughts on this.

-al

[Second Hand Pat]

Al, yes to all. If for some reason I have to "drop out" (not planning on it but...) I will be happy to help the committee.
Pat

[brewmaster15]

Thanks Pat!

-al

[Skip]

Al, yes to all. If for some reason I have to "drop out" (not planning on it but...) I will be happy to help the committee.
Pat

Me.. Day After Contest starts..


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BwH__x6jV6A&feature=related

[brewmaster15]

Me.. Day After Contest starts..


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BwH__x6jV6A&feature=related
LOL Skippy Kramer.... I am sure you can go the discus distance here though....will power man...pure willpower!

-al

[Skip]

LOL Skippy Kramer.... I am sure you can go the discus distance here though....will power man...pure willpower!

-al

not sure if i can be MASTER OF MY DOMAIN!

[ockyra215]

Al I pm'med ya! I like all the rules you have set! I would say a $25.00 entry fee would be reasonable. To go to cost of the band width any trophy/award. Seems like a very nice contest is getting set to be under way!

[Eddie]

All of that sounds good Al! I would like to see 2 fish in the final judging. Thats just me

[nc0gnet0]

Do you get extra points if you get your group to have fry of thier own before the contest is finished ;)

jk

Rick

[Second Hand Pat]

Do you get extra points if you get your group to have fry of thier own before the contest is finished ;)

jk

Rick

:cheesy::laugh:

[Disgirl]

Al, I will make something special for the winner. You and I can discus via PM.
Barb

[brewmaster15]

Al, I will make something special for the winner. You and I can discus via PM.
Barb AS always Barb, Thanks for supporting the forum again!:)

-al

[Harry Marsh]

Exciting. I'm ready with some update videos already :)

[Second Hand Pat]

Exciting. I'm ready with some update videos already :)

Me too :D

[forrest]

hi Al n all,
i didnt read all the post here, if the contest need us ...Kenny n i will try our best to do anything in our ablity to help making this event merrier...

best rgds,
forrest

[brewmaster15]

Forrest, Thank you! WE have always been able to count on yours and Kenny's generosity and support here.. You've been like that from day one.

THanks again!
-al




hi Al n all,
i didnt read all the post here, if the contest need us ...Kenny n i will try our best to do anything in our ablity to help making this event merrier...

best rgds,
forrest

[Rummy]

This is going to be great! I will sign on as an eager spectator. ;)

[vicdiscus]

sounds good and very fair. That is excited.. Am I getting involved for that?

[Second Hand Pat]

Anyone know when the contest subforum will be available?

[Harry Marsh]

I'm curious too.

I'm already ready to post some updates

[pinoysport]

am I too late. I just had some fry attach...

[Teshi]

Anyone know when the contest subforum will be available?

did I miss something? I thought this was still in a forming stage. Nothing set up yet.

[Harry Marsh]

did I miss something? I thought this was still in a forming stage. Nothing set up yet.



3) The window... Since we have had interest by several members immediately... I propose we start now..May 15 was the start date, the day I proposed this...The end date for enrollment is August 15. Thats about 3 months. That means the judging will held mid to end of August next year.

thanks,
al

I don't mean to speak for al, but the above is his post #127 in this thread
I believe we're in the potential enrollment period, which may last for another month or two
Al also mentioned being very busy this month, so we'll probably hear more later.

I think you'd be 'good' if you've got attachment. I'd comment that the end date for enrollment should be substantially shortened. I don't know how much we can tell through a competition between dime sized fish @ May 15th and dime sized fish on August 25th
The dimes in August are going to be at a severe disadvantage to fish that may already be 3" if they were dimes on May 15th. On the other hand...if the 'competitor' is fine with that, I guess there's no reason to limit?

Might depend on the number of applicants?

[ockyra215]

Any updates on the contest Al?

[rachelchick]

Super excited to see what comes of this! Being a true newbie, I won't be participating, but I'd love to watch the contest play out!

[brewmaster15]

Hi all,
Really sorry to have not followed up on this more...

Details here.... http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showthread.php?97116-Bad-few-weeks-everyone....

I'll try to get this going real soon, and those of you that like Pat and Harry that are ready to go, just keep documenting until I do...

-al

[Second Hand Pat]

np Al, when you are ready I have a thread in the homesteader section which can be moved when ready.

[Keith Perkins]

This contest set-up is perfect for home breeders anyway Al. I mean rule #1 for home breeding is have patience. Hope your posting more again soon.

[Harry Marsh]

np Al, when you are ready I have a thread in the homesteader section which can be moved when ready.

This is a good idea. I'll make one in the photos section later today that can be as easily moved.

Good luck recovering, Al

[laborelch]

I kinda read the whole thread but couldn't figure out whether mutts are allowed or not. Had a small spawn of SS x my ugly female juvie (Red Cover, Blue Diamond cross) going free-swimming today. Wasn't intending to keep the spawn as it was in my 200g community and I don't think there are more than 30-40 fry, but due to the fact they were attaching to their parents I transferred them to a 30g breeder..... whatever survives till free-swimming stage in a 200g community deserves a chance to live.... no idea how they will turn out, but I'd like to be in at least for shape and growth :-)

[Skip]

yes.. any fish will be allowed.. its about the progress you make.. in the year

[White Worm]

I didn't know you were just down the road!

Yep, moved here back in January with the Air Force. Had some adjustment time and then I had to go in for back surgery. Healing up pretty good now and might think about discus again. is there anything around here worth it or any breeding going on?

[yim11]

Yep, moved here back in January with the Air Force. Had some adjustment time and then I had to go in for back surgery. Healing up pretty good now and might think about discus again. is there anything around here worth it or any breeding going on?

Few of us breed some fish and get together every now and then for a dinner and drinks. I'll PM you.

[Harry Marsh]

Anyone out there taking consistent videos or pictures?

[Second Hand Pat]

I am Harry.

http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showthread.php?96770-Pat-s-Contest-Fish-Wild-Tefe-F1-quot-Batch-B-quot

[brewmaster15]

Okay folks, Lets jump start this. The contest is a go...I have set up the contest forums and have at least 2 contestants that are ready to go...Please re-read this whole thread to see how the discussion went and what this all about... I will firm up the rules shortly, but for all practical purposes we have enough to go with. I had asked for feedback on several things and I thank those of you that gave your thoughts and concerns.

One area that I had asked about was entry fees.. I didn't really get any feedback there either for or against it, so I am going to wing this one. We will not require any entrance fees. Instead what I will do is simply Ask all participants to donate to the forum what they can afford and think is reasonable and I will use that for trophies, awards etc.I'll suppliment that with other private donations as I can, and if need be out of pocket. Last contest we had some nice awards and even a cash prize. At the end of this contest I would like to have some really nice takeways for Hobbyists involved here. Even if you are not involved in the contest as a competitor but are watching it from the sidelines.. you'll get alot out of it, hopefully some of you will financially support it as it evolves .

Not one to whitewash anything... I've never run a contest like this, matter of fact I don't know of any site that has....so I am sure we'll hit a few bumps here and there..Bear with me and work with me thru it all. It has the potential to be a really great contest. Having said that...In the event that we do hit some serious snags..I reserve the right to mediate those as I see appropriate.(someone has to! :) )

Contact me at brewmaster15@comcast.net if you want to enter your fish. Please Please Please do this only after you have read this thread and understand what you are required to do.

Voluntary funds for this contest can be sent to me by Paypal at simplydiscus@comcast.net (This email is different than the one we use for contributions to the forum in general, for general forum contributions please still use this Link...http://forum.simplydiscus.com/bppl_donate.php? ) I will better be able to keep track of things this way.

So lets start getting some pairs going everyone and let the fun begin!

-al

[Skip]

ok.. how long to i have to find some FRY>. and how old do they need to be between!?

cuz i will need to find some STAT!

[nwehrman]

You have till Aug 15th for fry -- breathe Skip!


Nicole

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Skip]

You have till Aug 15th for fry -- breathe Skip!


Nicole

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

ooh.. i have till aug.. to find some and START.. by then?

[nc0gnet0]

Al,

I want to clarify something. if I understand things correctly, you want the spawn/date of birth documented, and then weekly documentation when the fry reach dime size?
Or is it weekly documentation from date of birth. If it is the latter, how would this effect the ones entering the contest that buy or recieve their fry (as opposed to having bred them). Will they need to have the same documentation from the seller?
Rick

[brewmaster15]

Hi Rick,
Most hobbyists that get their fry from a breeder should be able to ask that breeder when the fry went free swimming or the pair spawned....That info plus documenting from the point on that they got them should be good enough for our contests sake.. we will have to be a bit flexible on things like exact age and group numbers if we want to include a good number of entries... The important thing is we need to get the fry documented as soon as possible.

hth,
al

[Keith Perkins]

Very nice Al that you dedicated the challenge to the memory of Barb. I hope everyone enjoys it and it goes well.

[BowRiver]

This is really interesting thread to follow.
My PB pair just start showing some breeding activities again after couple unsusscess spawning,a litle too late ,may be next time.Wish everybody who enters the contest the best
Quang

[brewmaster15]

Hi all,
There still seems to be some question on how to get into this contest. Basically you have all summer to get some fry..The contest is staggered over several months to allow everyone a huge window to join. Those that enter soonest like Pat and Harry have will finish sooner...but all contestants will have the same amount of time to raise their fish. They will all then be judged based on the same duration of time in the contest. Thats the beauty of this contest. The other thing that makes this contest such a great project is that people around the world can enter and technically compete with and learn from those from around the world.

-al

[Brokenrack]

After reading all these post as best I can, I'm still not sure what criteria will be used for judging. Just size? Length, weight, or judged by shape pattern etc?
Scott

[Second Hand Pat]

I would guess same standards used for judging at a discus show perhaps with a small adjustment for younger fish.

[Keith Perkins]

All fish are going to be judged when they are 1 year old, so no adjustments necessary.

[Second Hand Pat]

Keith, I was referring to the judging standard used by the NADA judges in the Discus University. I have seen posts asking the fish to be submitting for judging based on age but maybe those fish were under a year. Not sure about all this however.

[Keith Perkins]

Oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh. I got it, thanks for clarifying Pat.

[Harry Marsh]

No categories... its unlikely we get several entrants entering the same strains and the same age ..its juts not feasible. I know several have brought this up as something the contest needs..it doesn't though... its a different kind of contest than the first 2 were... and at the end whe we judge the fish... we'll have to modify the judging methods a bit....I've got to think more on that... much of whats currently accepted as criteria will still be used, but I we'll look at other details.. I 'll post on this latter, ideally, its one of the things that I would like that group of volunteer helpers I asked for to work on with me.

what we can do though is look at fish that are entered in the same age range and month..its a thought to work out though....as I am not sure it really is useful without standardizing the care and food...I think growth rates are really going to be all over the place here...actually I am hoping thats the case.

-al

I think we'll just have to be flexible with judging, as al seems to be pointing to
Judges discretion or something

[Divantie]

What is the challenge here???

[magewynd]

"Breeding Discus is often pretty easy, the pair does the work... but to actually raise a group out for a year...that is a challenge and commitment... I think alot of people here could benefit by watching a contest like this, and I think it would also give people a clear cut picture of what works best in raising discus... often the topic of great disputes here." quote from Al (brewmaster15).

Read the first page.



What is the challenge here???

[Skip]

ok.. so the time frame to start is june/aug..

we must start with at most 30... when dime size..

at 3".. down to 8..

and fish could be from different spawns.. not just all from same..

is this correct?

[magewynd]

Good questions Skip.

I also would like a little more clarification.

The minimum we start with is 20?
Are there certain ages or sizes when we need to reduce the amount of stock? Say from 20 to 15, 15 to 10, etc.
And we need to finish at one year with 6 or 8 fish?
ok.. so the time frame to start is june/aug..

we must start with at most 30... when dime size..

at 3".. down to 8..

and fish could be from different spawns.. not just all from same..

is this correct?

[Brokenrack]

Thought it was down to 30 at two weeks (dime size) and down to 8 at 8 weeks.

[Skip]

i am confused alittle.

one of the contestants.. has 40 to 50.. and started in may..
so the rules are probably not set in stone.. but i would imagine.. the 1 year date is..
idk..

if i can get the fry.. i'll get in for sure.. i am interested to see what i can do :)

[Second Hand Pat]

Skip, my spawn went free swimming on the day Al announced the contest. May 15. After moving the fry from the parents tank to their own tank I have 22 fry and they are dime sized now at 6 weeks. My fry grow slower then domestics since they are F1 of wild greens. My next question for myself is do I down select to 8 next week or do I disqualify myself as my fry were not dime sized in the two/three week timeframe.

[Skip]

pat.. i think there is leeway here..

i don't you need to DQ yourself.. cuz there were not dime size in 21 days..

[Harry Marsh]

i am confused alittle.

one of the contestants.. has 40 to 50.. and started in may..
so the rules are probably not set in stone.. but i would imagine.. the 1 year date is..
idk..

if i can get the fry.. i'll get in for sure.. i am interested to see what i can do :)

To stop the belly aching that is sure to come, I will remove the small ones from a later spawn and put 30 in a tank by themselves, tonight....

I suppose I shall ask for clarification on when to go down to six, or eight?
8 weeks? 3"? 3" TL or body?

[Skip]

I suppose I shall ask for clarification on when to go down to six, or eight?
8 weeks? 3"? 3" TL or body?

that is excellent question

[nc0gnet0]

Just confusion Harry. As I gear up to enter the contest I want to make sure I understand things correctly so I can appropriate the right amount of tank space etc.

I am curious though, if I follow your timeline correctly on 6/11 your fry were dime size and on 6/28 they are almost 3" TL? thats pretty impressive!

*edit

I stand corrected they were nearing dime size on may 30th...I was confused by the date of the post entry vs the date of the photo. Still impressive.....

Rick

[Tobrienne]

Hey guys not sure if I can enter this contest.. didn't read all 200+ posts however it just so happens that my pair spawned 6/27 and they began wiggler stage at 6/29 and today, 7/2 some are going free swimming. I have a thread going in the breeding section with pictures... etc etc.. I am going to create a livejournal blog to document it :) If interested in the link let me know.. I may post it as soon as it is created!

-Toby

[Skip]

al said.. we have until august to get the fry :)

you should be good :)

[Second Hand Pat]

Hey guys not sure if I can enter this contest.. didn't read all 200+ posts however it just so happens that my pair spawned 6/27 and they began wiggler stage at 6/29 and today, 7/2 some are going free swimming. I have a thread going in the breeding section with pictures... etc etc.. I am going to create a livejournal blog to document it :) If interested in the link let me know.. I may post it as soon as it is created!

-Toby

Toby, go to page 9, post 127 to see Al's guidelines and how to enter the contest if you wish join :)

[Second Hand Pat]

Hi Larry,
Yes thats it exactly...I just threw out the number of 20 figuring there would be culling and mishaps along the way... plus, 20 is a good number of fry to start out with in maybe a 30 gal tank...then move on to a 55 as they get bigger and start culling down any runts and slow growers...Ideally I think by 2" a participant should have a group of 6-8 juvies to focus on raising to adults.
Thanks for the feedback and questions everyone....keep them coming.

I would add that the members here that want to participate but are not breeding ...find a breeder near you....rope them into this. Alls you need is to document the pair and frys age... Since the fry would not be shipped, if you are careful you should be able to transport a group of 20-30 dime size fry (several weeks old) without too much problem....I've had them shipped to me at that size with few problems...so a short travel should be okay.

-al

ps..
Van's idea is a great one.. Get a pair from Hans....problem solved!:D

oh yeah.. I just threw out the months of June and July....I am not fixed on this period, we could easily make it 3 months as well... JUne July and August... Heck we could make it a 6 month window... the only thing there is , the longer the enrollment...The greater amount of time we will have to wait to judge the fish as they will all need to be a year old.. but hey... theres no rush...I'd rather have many many participants in this...It could easily be a major, major discus project!:D

I found this in post 11 in this thread. Perhaps the bolded text is what Al had in mind for the second cut to the 8 contest fish.

[MKD]

Wow!!! perfect timing for newbie. i have a batch from Albino Spotted/Turq pair (they look like Turq but has Spotted gene) that i can participate it.
Albino pair - hatched 06/23


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_YHF1zJQcgs&feature=relmfu

[Skip]

nice MD!!

looking forward to the updates!

[Brokenrack]

Page 9 post 127:
5) The fish.. what I propose is starting with a group of 30 dime size fry or 2-3 week old fry...It really doesn't matter if they come from a spawn of 50, 100 or 300. The group starts at 30...and you document it... Dime size fry are roughly 2-3 weeks old...You can tape a dime or other similar sized object to the tank... By week 6 your fry will be apropriately 2 months old. At this point you would choose the best 8 fry to follow the rest of the year..All others should be removed from the tank.. You will be on your own honor system here...If you cheat by raising the others as well and pad your chances at the end of the year..we won't know... but you'll be cheating the forum's members and most of all yourself.
Scott

[Second Hand Pat]

So at about 62 days old the second cut should be made.

[MKD]

nice MD!!

looking forward to the updates!

thank you Skip. I'll keep it posted, here?

[Harry Marsh]

Just confusion Harry. As I gear up to enter the contest I want to make sure I understand things correctly so I can appropriate the right amount of tank space etc.

I am curious though, if I follow your timeline correctly on 6/11 your fry were dime size and on 6/28 they are almost 3" TL? thats pretty impressive!

*edit

I stand corrected they were nearing dime size on may 30th...I was confused by the date of the post entry vs the date of the photo. Still impressive.....

Rick


For what it's worth: you were right.
I got the measuring tape out today. I'm way off on size. They're just a tad bit over 2" (the largest ones)
3" on a measuring tape is a hella lot bigger than i thought!

....and now, based on my guesstimates, I need to tell the wife it isn't 8 inches, either.

[Skip]

HM..
That is the funniest sh#t in a long time!!

[Second Hand Pat]

Curious as to the wife's response......never mind....to much info

[JenTN]

Maybe instead of total or standard length we should clarify if they are measured in standard or man inches.

[magewynd]

Enjoyed the movie, did you?
Maybe instead of total or standard length we should clarify if they are measured in standard or man inches.

[Harry Marsh]

Maybe instead of total or standard length we should clarify if they are measured in standard or man inches.

Ha.
We've got a pond out back. You could say this was a fish tale of a different sort :)

[dpete9]

So I am not `100% clear on something. One of my pairs just hatched a very small batch (maybe 30) of fry. At what age should I submit my entry to the contest? Not until they are dime size? or immediately?

[Skip]

So I am not `100% clear on something. One of my pairs just hatched a very small batch (maybe 30) of fry. At what age should I submit my entry to the contest? Not until they are dime size? or immediately?

i believe you have to aug. 15 to get your hands on fry :)

[Harry Marsh]

So I am not `100% clear on something. One of my pairs just hatched a very small batch (maybe 30) of fry. At what age should I submit my entry to the contest? Not until they are dime size? or immediately?

I think you should submit regardless
Even if they aren't raised to adults (some problem happens), it would be interesting to document that problem for others.


The more entries the better, I figure....It will give us more information and variables to look at