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joshvito
07-02-2012, 09:16 PM
The parents are a Blue Turquoise and a Blue Turk/red Melon cross. I presume I will get a mostly Blue Turk looking fish. But only time will tell if I can be successful.
The pair spawned 4 times before they got it right. Currently, there are about 50 fry in the tank.

http://img.tapatalk.com/45cc0a27-47f7-e880.jpg

Here is the pair day 1 free swimming on June 26.

The pair are housed in a 55 gallon tank divided by a hamburg mattenfilter. I removed most of the fish from the other side of the tank, aside from some least killie's. Those will get moved soon. I have a canister filter on the non-discus side and a sponge filter on either side of the divider also.

06.30.12 - day 5
Started feeding BBS and microworms in small portions once a day. Fry still will parents. Water changes every other day at 25-50%. Fry and wigglers in the tank.
http://img.tapatalk.com/45cc0a27-46a0-3c7b.jpghttp://img.tapatalk.com/45cc0a27-47d6-d108.jpg






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Tropical Fish Club of Erie County (Http://www.tropical-fish-club-of-Erie-county.com)

joshvito
07-02-2012, 09:17 PM
07.02.12 - day 7
http://img.tapatalk.com/45cc0a27-4862-565e.jpg
Fry don't seem to be eating the bbs yet. I still feed by squirting over the fry and parents 3x a day.
Tank Parameters
PH - 7.0-7.5
Temp - 78.6
NH3/NH4 - 0
TDS - 149


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Tropical Fish Club of Erie County (Http://www.tropical-fish-club-of-Erie-county.com)

joshvito
07-03-2012, 06:14 PM
06.03.12 - day 8
I have day 8 and day 1 attached to parents.
http://img.tapatalk.com/45cc0a27-6eb1-865b.jpg
http://img.tapatalk.com/45cc0a27-6ebf-0ddb.jpg
http://img.tapatalk.com/45cc0a27-6eca-a010.jpg
http://img.tapatalk.com/45cc0a27-6ed5-76e8.jpg

Sorry about all the bbs floating, just fed.


TFCEC Member
Tropical Fish Club of Erie County (Http://www.tropical-fish-club-of-Erie-county.com)

oldfar
07-03-2012, 07:15 PM
That Mellon cross is different I am not sure if I like that or not but the sponge filters are growing their own hair that tank may need cleaning I am new around here and just learning don't listen to me.

joshvito
07-03-2012, 08:16 PM
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=aTk7G6ZAegI#/watch?v=aTk7G6ZAegI
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Second Hand Pat
07-03-2012, 08:24 PM
Here you go


http://www.youtube.com/watch?gl=US&hl=en&client=mv-google&v=aTk7G6ZAegI&nomobile=1

cjr8420
07-04-2012, 12:54 AM
are u breeding these just for experience or are u tryin to reverse line breed?non PB X PB=all PB babys

joshvito
07-04-2012, 07:46 PM
Mostly just breeding for experience, and to turn in for BAP points at my fish club.

What's PB?


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Tropical Fish Club of Erie County (Http://www.tropical-fish-club-of-Erie-county.com)

Altum Nut
07-04-2012, 10:35 PM
Hey Josh, how is Randy doing these days? He used to help out at our local fish auctions across the border here.
My favorite auctioneer hands down. Does he still have his store?
By the way PB - Pigeon Blood

...Ralph

cjr8420
07-04-2012, 11:16 PM
just curious for the pts how many fry do u have to keep and how long ?

nc0gnet0
07-05-2012, 01:06 AM
The cross will yield better results than the cross that the male came from. I can see two distinct types of fry, one type looks almost white in color. Be curious to see the offspring that are not pigeon blood, and any effects the red melon from the original cross have (if any). The pb based fry will most likely look like dad.

joshvito
07-05-2012, 09:09 AM
Hey Josh, how is Randy doing these days? He used to help out at our local fish auctions across the border here.
My favorite auctioneer hands down. Does he still have his store?
By the way PB - Pigeon Blood

...Ralph
Randy is doing well, still president of the club. Our yearly picnic is this month on the 29th. His store has been closed since I've known him (since 2009). I'll let him know one of his friends from the north said hi.


just curious for the pts how many fry do u have to keep and how long ?

Discus = Target Fish 20 Bonus Points, so a total of 40pts
Six fry must be brought to a General Meeting for verification no sooner then two (2) months after free swimming.

John_Nicholson
07-05-2012, 02:45 PM
You should get 50% turq types and 50% PB type. I realize you said that you are doing this for experience but I felt I needed to let you know that neither of the parents really look to be what I would call breeding quality. They appear healthy and you are taking care of them but they just are not the quality of discus that should be used to produce the next generation of discus. I am not trying to be harsh, I just thought you needed to know.

Good luck.

-john

joshvito
07-05-2012, 04:16 PM
You should get 50% turq types and 50% PB type. I realize you said that you are doing this for experience but I felt I needed to let you know that neither of the parents really look to be what I would call breeding quality. They appear healthy and you are taking care of them but they just are not the quality of discus that should be used to produce the next generation of discus. I am not trying to be harsh, I just thought you needed to know.

Good luck.

-john

I don't necessarily agree with you, as ugly people can have pretty and ugly offspring.
If this was absolutely the case, the movie Idiocracy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Idiocracy) will soon be a reality.
I do thank you for your opinion. :)

Skip
07-05-2012, 05:37 PM
I don't necessarily agree with you, as ugly people can have pretty and ugly offspring.
If this was absolutely the case, the movie Idiocracy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Idiocracy) will soon be a reality.
I do thank you for your opinion. :)

it already is..

well, at least where i use to teach.. lol

Eddie
07-06-2012, 08:40 AM
I don't necessarily agree with you, as ugly people can have pretty and ugly offspring.
If this was absolutely the case, the movie Idiocracy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Idiocracy) will soon be a reality.
I do thank you for your opinion. :)

People breeding and fish breeding are kind of different. LOL

John_Nicholson
07-06-2012, 10:20 AM
It would be like breeding 2 plow horses and getting a race horse...possible, but very, very unlikely.

-john

joshvito
07-06-2012, 02:00 PM
It would be like breeding 2 plow horses and getting a race horse...possible, but very, very unlikely.

-john

But more likely than a race horse, because instead of 1 offspring at a time, fish give you many multiples.


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Tropical Fish Club of Erie County (Http://www.tropical-fish-club-of-Erie-county.com)

John_Nicholson
07-06-2012, 02:13 PM
I understand your argument but it still highly unlikely, but here is a thought. You raise out your spawn and bring the very, very best "race horse" that you raise to the next NADA show in 2014. That way we can compare it to other "race horses" and you can decide if it was a worth while venture.

Beside you would have a blast. NADA shows are out of this world.

-john

joshvito
07-06-2012, 08:42 PM
07.06.12 - day 11
http://img.tapatalk.com/45cc0a27-860c-e91d.jpg
Eating bbs 3x a day. The fry are definitely more exploratory and even picking at parents food.

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joshvito
07-07-2012, 01:10 PM
07.07.12 - day 12

http://img.tapatalk.com/45cc0a27-8bea-c72a.jpg

Water parameters before a 50% WC
Ph - 7.0
Temp - 78.5
NH3/NH4 - 0
TDS - 103
GH/KH - 17.9 - 35.8 ppm

joshvito
07-10-2012, 11:26 AM
07.09.12 - Day 14

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m2qHfpygggg&feature=player_detailpage

joshvito
07-16-2012, 09:40 PM
Day 21

Pulled the parents today, as they were acting semi-aggressive. Fry are eating crushed flake of any variety, FDBW, and BBS.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w0ZAt0g8erE&feature=player_detailpage

http://joshvito.com/public/fish_images/discus-day-21.jpg

http://joshvito.com/public/fish_images/discus-day-21-2.jpg

limige
07-16-2012, 11:33 PM
Very cool Congrats, disregard the rude comments.

Your PBS will likely show strong peppering but can help to strengthen genes on the Turks. Watch the PBS and hang on to the cleanest of the bunch, you never know!

John_Nicholson
07-17-2012, 08:52 AM
Very cool Congrats, disregard the rude comments.

Your PBS will likely show strong peppering but can help to strengthen genes on the Turks. Watch the PBS and hang on to the cleanest of the bunch, you never know!

There is not a single rude comment in this post. The forum is here to provide information. Just because the information was not what he wanted does not make it rude.

-john

Eddie
07-17-2012, 09:29 AM
There is not a single rude comment in this post. The forum is here to provide information. Just because the information was not what he wanted does not make it rude.

-john

+1

joshvito
07-17-2012, 10:21 AM
It's all part of the discussion for learning. Thank you all for your feedback and creative critiques.

pastry
07-17-2012, 08:11 PM
Joshvito, I won't get in to all the politics... all I can say is that I'm fan of your experiment! My best pair wasn't based off two beautiful discus but instead based off a pair that were such awesome parents that they raised about 20 fry to just over a month old (until I had a dumb idea and did an overhaul of the filtration system which sucked them up... water's a lot cleaner now) in a community tank. And they were ugly & stunted... but damn were they my best pair.

joshvito
07-18-2012, 09:43 AM
My Current Grow-out Setup

http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/attachment.php?attachmentid=17703&d=1342616516
A shot of my grow out tank.

My growing fry are housed in a bare bottom, 55 gallon tank with a Poret (http://www.swisstropicals.com/Poret%20Filter%20Foam%20Pricelist.html) foam divider placed at the half way point.
The reason for this is to keep the fry food items concentrated in a smaller area, while maintaining a larger volume of water for more stable tank conditions. The concentrated food volume makes feeding easier, and the fry are able to eat with less wasted food.

Each side of the tank has an air driven sponge filter. I believe they are Hydro-Sponge Pro IV Filters. I purposely let the sponges get "mucky" and only rinse them in waste tank water once a week, usually on Sundays. It is my belief that the filters provide infusorians and other micro-fauna for the developing discus to graze on in between feedings.

In addition to the three pieces of foam in the tank, I run an external canister filter with mostly mechanical and biological media on the opposite side of the fry. This filter is what I like to think of as my "Fall back" filter. If I choose to give the sponge filters a thorough cleaning, I am not worried about bacteria loss, because the canister filter will offset any loss. The canister also contains a 100g Seachem Purigen (http://www.seachem.com/Products/product_pages/Purigen.html)bag.

Also of note in the photo, I keep easy, forgiving live plants in both sides of the tank. Mostly just Java Moss and Najas Grass, but Anubias are easy to care for also. There is also some driftwood on the non-fry side, mainly because it provides a place for the moss to attach. Plants help to keep the nitrate lower between WC, and provide places for micro-fauna to populate.

Most nights, after the last feeding, I have time for a water change. I remove as much water as I can. My limit is the size of my water holding container at the moment (33G trash can). Often times, I will remove more than what I have on hand for replacement, and the tank will not be "full." As long as my intake for the canister is below water level, I don't sweat the lack, and I just replace it with the next change.

I'll post a bit more about my daily routine/maintenance in a couple days.

joshvito
07-19-2012, 09:28 PM
Day 24
http://img.tapatalk.com/45cc0a27-b473-a335.jpg
Took a shot of fry while they were eating for the third time today. From the looks of the fish at the moment, I have at least two different patterns forming, and a possible third. This photo shows two. The third is close to the verticals bar coloration, without the dark line through its eye.


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limige
07-19-2012, 11:48 PM
Very cool
Interesting thought on the divided tank. I wonder how well the water mixes between the two sides.
never heard of that kind of foam, where did you find it? What's it typically used for?

DiscusDrew
07-20-2012, 01:33 AM
Joshvito I commend you for taking the leap into the breeding end of this hobby. As has been mentioned and isnt worth argueing over, the parents are not the best possible picks for the greatest possible outcome. However at the very least you can learn and take away so much from this experience. One of the things I would hope you take away is the cost and effort of raising fry, I believe for that fact alone a majority of us will be VERY picky about the fish that we choose to spawn. Because if the effort is going to be put in we want to maximize the outcome and the improvement of this hobby. Please my friend do not take this as rude whatsoever. I commend you because no matter what it takes GREAT effort to raise discus fry, and that is a huge success in and of itself. That is an amazing accomplishment. I only hope and intend to push you towards taking this hobby further with each successful spawn. Now you know you can do it, I hope you intend to continue in your adventure and with beautiful parents, which any discus keeper generally aspires to have and create.

joshvito
07-20-2012, 08:50 AM
Very cool
Interesting thought on the divided tank. I wonder how well the water mixes between the two sides.
never heard of that kind of foam, where did you find it? What's it typically used for?

The foam is pretty porous. I have tested the parameters separately on both sides, and I get the same readings twenty minutes after a water change.

Poret foam is from Germany, I think.? It is what is used in Hamburg Mattenfilters.
The only place I know to purchase the foam in the US is at Swiss Tropicals (http://www.swisstropicals.com/Poret%20Filter%20Foam%20Pricelist.html).

Make sure to take a look at his fish room (http://www.swisstropicals.com/Swisstropicals%20Fishroom.html) while you are there, it's pretty cool.

joshvito
07-20-2012, 08:56 AM
Joshvito I commend you for taking the leap into the breeding end of this hobby. As has been mentioned and isnt worth argueing over, the parents are not the best possible picks for the greatest possible outcome. However at the very least you can learn and take away so much from this experience. One of the things I would hope you take away is the cost and effort of raising fry, I believe for that fact alone a majority of us will be VERY picky about the fish that we choose to spawn. Because if the effort is going to be put in we want to maximize the outcome and the improvement of this hobby. Please my friend do not take this as rude whatsoever. I commend you because no matter what it takes GREAT effort to raise discus fry, and that is a huge success in and of itself. That is an amazing accomplishment. I only hope and intend to push you towards taking this hobby further with each successful spawn. Now you know you can do it, I hope you intend to continue in your adventure and with beautiful parents, which any discus keeper generally aspires to have and create.

You make a few very good points, for now, I am just enjoying the ride.

zimmjeff
07-21-2012, 11:25 AM
sounds like a fun ride enjoy

Harry Marsh
07-21-2012, 11:27 AM
I think the poret idea is wonderful

I may incorporate that at some point for concentrating brine shrimp feedings

joshvito
07-23-2012, 09:08 AM
I think the poret idea is wonderful

I may incorporate that at some point for concentrating brine shrimp feedings

Works really well, the fry are able to snatch up their daily feeding of fry in minutes with very little getting grabbed by the filter.

joshvito
07-23-2012, 09:32 AM
My Daily Feeding/Maintenance Schedule from Day 5 to present

To give readers a better understanding of what has been working for me to this point in time, here is a summary of my daily schedule. The only thing that I have changed since Day 5, is the amount of food I was feeding. When the parents were in the tank, I fed a bit less, as the fry seemed less interested in food, and were feeding from the parents.

7:00 AM

Let yesterdays Brine Shrimp Settle
Mix up new Brine Shrimp
Feed Fry Crumbled Eathworm flake
Feed other fish/tanks too
Feed Baby Brine Shrimp
Plug in aerator and heater for replacement water

Every morning, I find 15 minutes to head down into the fish room to feed the fish. Some days, I am more pressed for time than others, but I always make sure the fry get fed before I head off to work.

6:00 PM


Let yesterdays Brine Shrimp Settle
Feed other fish/tanks too
Feed Baby Brine Shrimp

First thing I do when I get home from work, is feed the fish again. Relax and watch to make sure everyone is eating and the tanks appear healthy and stable. Watching your fish each day, you can tell if something is wrong many times just by noticing a difference.

~10:30 PM
Last thing I do for the day before I head up to bed.

Let yesterdays Brine Shrimp Settle
Water Change - Remove 30 Gallons(Size of my holding tank) of water from fish tank on non-fry side**
Turn pump on to add water back to non-fry side
Feed the remainder of the Brine from yesterday (all BBS is fed between 24-40hrs of mixing)
Feed frozen blood-worms or Mysis Shrimp or crumbled balanced flake (alternate)
Empty BBS container and fill with fresh water and salt (I aerate this water overnight, so I can just add BS eggs/cysts in the AM)


** My water change is RO water with added Seachem Equilibrium to make it 70-90 TDS. While refilling with this water, I add 2L of lukewarm tap water with Seachem Prime. My TDS reads near 100 on most days. If I check it and it is below 70, I may top off with a bit more tap water, but the daily water changes usually keep the TDS in that 70-90 range. Sometimes if I get busy, I miss one water change a week.

I'll get some photos up later this week to show some growth.

DiscusDrew
07-23-2012, 02:37 PM
Hmmm, I always let my fry go straight back to aged airated tap after they hatch, seems to work for me though Im not discrediting your approach. I just never want to even have to think about whether or not there was a mineral defficiency in the water. They love my hard water, they just dont love to hatch into it ;) Good job thus far, things seem to be going well.

joshvito
07-23-2012, 03:49 PM
@DiscusDrew
I use RO at this point due to lack of holding containers. I like have RO on hand but lack a second container at the moment. I also only have one water source, so I need to unhook my RO unit in order to get tap water.

I will probably switch over soon, as I plan to move them to a continuous overflow system ASAP.


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joshvito
07-23-2012, 09:32 PM
Day 28
http://img.tapatalk.com/45cc0a27-fb2b-49ac.jpg


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joshvito
07-26-2012, 11:15 AM
I haven't culled or lost a fish yet.
I need to re-check the rules, and figure out when I need to select a smaller group of fish.
There are definately 40-60 fry at this point.

They are still eating a lot of BBS and ZooMed Earthworm formula flakes.
I occasionally toss in some frozen mysis or bloodworms.

petclub
07-31-2012, 05:34 AM
first of all i want to say that amazing photo you used

joshvito
08-02-2012, 09:51 AM
Day 38
I sat and watched the juveniles for a while yesterday, looking for any apparent defects or for dark colored sickly fish, and could not find any. I am still having trouble counting the fry, they move so much. I believe I will have to choose 8 contest fish from the batch soon, and since I have two distinct patterns, I will most likely split my choice of 8 between the two phenotype. I should really check out the rules thread and figure when this decision needs to be made.

Does anyone have suggestions for picking the best fish as contest fish?
I cannot really choose this early on color, so shape and size is a good indicator...?

dpete9
08-02-2012, 10:09 AM
Can you see peppering on any of them yet? cull or separate those ones from the contest fish to start with.

Second Hand Pat
08-02-2012, 10:10 AM
Hi Josh, besides shape and size I would include feeding vigor, lack of defects and perhaps even eye color if any has appeared.

bonginator
08-02-2012, 10:12 AM
Do you clean the foam divider regularly? Just curious since it didn't say in your description of your regimen.

Harry Marsh
08-02-2012, 02:01 PM
Agree with you. I am having a hard time picking 8
I think I'm just going to select the 8 largest

joshvito
08-02-2012, 03:37 PM
Do you clean the foam divider regularly? Just curious since it didn't say in your description of your regimen.

Depends on what you deem "regular".
Poret foam distributor recommends 6mo to 1 year between cleanings. I haven't cleaned it since I placed it in the tank.

Caution, my opinion below.
I understand that lower nitrates and regular water changes are needed to keep the fry's growth rate up and keep them healthy. However, I dont believe that sterile, extremely clean tanks with no algae are good for fish. I don't have any specific tests to back up my theory yet. (sounds like a good experiment). However, if we keep our developing fish in a extremely clean tank, what happens when we sell them to other hobbyists who only perform weekly changes, or overstock their tanks. Fish from tanks who never had to swim in water with a "dirty" sponge filter, may not have the correct immune response to deal with possible pathogens they encounter. Sorry for the long rant, I'm not arguing against clean, regularly hanged water. But just questioning that maybe thee is a too clean point in our tanks.


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joshvito
08-02-2012, 03:38 PM
Agree with you. I am having a hard time picking 8
I think I'm just going to select the 8 largest

Probably what I will do. I'll select the PB type with the least peppering too.


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joshvito
08-02-2012, 07:19 PM
Day 38
Just a few photos after while doing a 90% water change.
Photos for progress. (I really need to get some reference in there)
http://img.tapatalk.com/45cc0a27-0aea-0234.jpg
http://img.tapatalk.com/45cc0a27-0b02-80a4.jpg
http://img.tapatalk.com/45cc0a27-0b1c-0bf2.jpg


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joshvito
08-06-2012, 11:48 AM
Day 41 free swimming
My grow out tank is a 55 gal. Since I will be keeping my 8 contest fish separated from the rest of the spawn (until nov. fish auction) in the same tank, I decided to upgrade my water changing gear.

So I used 2 18gallon totes to hold my sponge filters and fish. While the fish were out of the tank, I tore it down and carried it outside for deep cleaning.

This also presented the opportunity for me to drill for bulkheads. I drilled 1" and a 3/4".
http://img.tapatalk.com/482d924e-e624-ecbe.jpg

The smaller bulkhead is just plugged at the moment with a plug and a closed ball valve. I hope to eventually hook this with a vinyl adaptor that hooks into my new water.

The 1" drains into my sump. Hopefully the interior pipe will allow me to drain 85% of the tank water. I copied what I saw in some other fish rooms, just haven't tested the drain yet. Will do tonight.
http://img.tapatalk.com/a68958aa-e709-ebca.jpg

http://img.tapatalk.com/482d924e-e74d-c07d.jpg

http://img.tapatalk.com/482d924e-e761-519f.jpg

Anyone know if this drain will work?

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joshvito
08-06-2012, 06:24 PM
Day 42 - free swimming

Sorry for my shaky camera skills, but I have some size reference in the first video, and the fish feeding in the second.

http://youtu.be/mFHvbHJa924


http://youtu.be/Hp6MzzF-gUw

joshvito
08-13-2012, 08:42 PM
Day 49 free swimming

Here is a video of the fry while I drain the water for the daily 50% water change.

http://youtu.be/DGahESrqtOM

I'm still feeding 3-4 times per day. Earthworm flakes and bbs. With the occasional frozen bloodworms or mysis shrimp.



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rdiscus
08-14-2012, 09:49 AM
They look great ...

joshvito
08-14-2012, 09:51 AM
@rdiscus , Thank you.

I pulled the canister filter off the tank this weekend. It's been leaking along the edge of the rim/top.

I placed all the bio-media in the tank, which consists of 1L Seachem Matrix and some ceramic cylinders. I also ran an extra airline near the bio-media to increase the water movement. I'm not sure at this point if I will replace/repair the canister, because the air driven sponge filters are so much easier to maintain. I especially like the fact that I don't have to unplug them for water changes.

nc0gnet0
08-14-2012, 11:09 AM
How many are in there?

rick

Second Hand Pat
08-14-2012, 11:23 AM
Most likely time to reduce the number to 30.

joshvito
08-14-2012, 04:17 PM
I've counted a few times without netting. I always get ~38-40, but I am sure I am counting doubles. Might be that I need to net them out and count.

How do the rest of you count? Can you give me the step by step?

nc0gnet0
08-14-2012, 05:45 PM
Take a picture of the whole tank and then count them in the picture. it was my understanding that it was only to be 30 fry at dime size, then 8.

joshvito
08-15-2012, 02:29 PM
Take a picture of the whole tank and then count them in the picture. it was my understanding that it was only to be 30 fry at dime size, then 8.
Great idea!!

Yes, the official rules were posted Aug. 5th. Apparently, 30 was the amount at dime size; and down to 8 at ~61days.
I guess it's time to move a few to a different section of the fish room.

joshvito
08-21-2012, 08:54 AM
I will be taking 12 of these "2 month" old fry to my local fish club meeting today for auction and to turn in for BAP points.
By the end of the week, I will have my best 8 fish sectioned off in their own space for the remainder of the contest.

The fry eating mostly freeze dried and frozen foods at this point, I have weened them off the live BBS. I put a bit of the BBS in the tank, but have been feeding my daily BBS haul to other tanks, one that includes week old babies (second spawn from the parents of these fry).

I plan on starting to feed some frozen enriched beefheart, if I can find it, and some Repashy Superfoods in the coming days.

Tanmoy
08-21-2012, 09:12 AM
Awesome

joshvito
08-23-2012, 08:56 PM
Day 59 - free swimming
I took all the sponges out and rinsed them thoroughly in a bucket of tank water while performing the daily water change.

The fish are almost exclusively eating freeze dried and frozen foods at this point. I plan on mixing up some Repashy Super Foods tonight. In a couple days, I will select my best 8 and transfer them to their own section of the tank.

Here is a video for progress.

http://youtu.be/hSJ5Aa2sjac


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joshvito
08-24-2012, 11:39 AM
Day 59 - free swimming

eating Mysis Shrimp

http://youtu.be/TJmqVvsycNo

Donno
08-25-2012, 05:50 PM
Thanks for sharing the videos. I really enjoy your thread!

joshvito
08-29-2012, 09:59 PM
Day 65 free swimming

My maintenance and my feeding schedule have not changed from what I wrote earlier in this thread. I still continue daily 50% water changes and feeding 3 times a day.

I have weened these fry off of bbs, but I continue to feed crumbled flakes, bloodworms, mysis. I started introducing a small amount of Repashy breed and grow, but the fry don't seem to like it. It mostly sets in the water and slowly dissolves until I remove it the next day. I feed it with the other foods, hoping that they will see it as food. I have a couple other varieties that I will try after I use this up.

I chose the best 8 fish from my group today, and Partitioned them onto their own side of the tank. Here is a fts of the setup. I plan on re-homing most of the rest of the fish over the next few months. Until then, the tank will be shared.
http://img.tapatalk.com/45cc0a27-c838-dadb.jpg

I picked the largest, red eyed, least peppered, roundest shaped fish from the bunch. There are really some disparities in size between the largest and smallest fish. Probably dime-ish to quarter+.

Here is a quick video of my 8 contest fish.

http://youtu.be/4-tjFaiNrL4


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joshvito
09-05-2012, 01:05 PM
Day 72 free swimming

Since separating off the 8 contest fish, I have noticed that they are a bit more tentative about me and food. However this gets better each day, and the fish graze on food all day long.

I am still on a 50% daily WC schedule.
Feeding 3-4 times per day.

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/12/09/06/qymuqysu.jpg

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/12/09/06/y7ydy5uj.jpg


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joshvito
09-19-2012, 04:06 PM
I'm still on a 50% daily water change schedule. The 8 contest fish are in a divided 55gallon tank. I've slowly been removing fish from the other side of the division. By the time these fish are 5 months old, I plan to have them in the 55 gallons by themselves.

One thing I have learned so far, is that raising discus takes up a lot of space. Ideally, if I was raising these fish for a business, I would like to separate the fish by size every few months. This just isn't feasible with my current tank space constraints.

I also placed some live blackworms in a worm cone feeder last night. I'm not sure they know what to do with the worm cone yet, but I am confident they will figure it out.

One of the biggest questions I have at this point, is I would like to know how my amount of food and schedule compares to the other contestants. Look for a video in the coming days, where I video how much I feed and when.


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joshvito
09-26-2012, 08:09 PM
Nothing has changed from my schedule. The parents continue to spawn in the display tank. I just leave them in there, because I do not have any space for more fish at the moment.

PH - 8.0
Nh3/nh4 - 0
TDS - 172

The fish are starting to get color in their fins and most eyes are red.

Day 91 free swimming
http://img.tapatalk.com/d/12/09/27/jy9u8eje.jpg


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joshvito
10-01-2012, 09:18 PM
My 8 contest fish are growing fast, I'll get a picture up of the largest with a tape measure soon.

I did notice that the fish on the other side of the divider seemed to be breathing faster over the last week. I have been keeping up on WC's so I don't believe the issue to be water quality. On account of the smaller fish in the spawn turning dark, appearing to have inflamed red gills, and 6-8 having turned up dead. I decided to treat for gill flukes with API General Cure.

I lowered the water level to just above the sponge filters, leaving about 30gallons. Today is day 1 of treatment, I just plan on following the directions on the package.

Since these fish are in the same tank as my contest fish, I felt the need to document it here in my contest thread.


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Kingdom Come Discus
10-03-2012, 05:36 PM
Good luck with them they are coming along very well!!!!!

rdiscus
10-05-2012, 10:22 PM
can't view anything ???

joshvito
10-06-2012, 01:54 PM
http://youtu.be/u7tB0hvKnvU
All fish in this tank got a 30 minute 1% salt bath today while I changed 90% of the water.

Here is a quick, shaky video with a tape measure.





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Eddie
10-06-2012, 04:44 PM
Looking great!

xKevinx
10-08-2012, 07:16 PM
good job looking good

joshvito
10-11-2012, 06:46 PM
The fish are growing.
Here is a photo from today.
http://img.tapatalk.com/d/12/10/12/uzupa7um.jpg

I'm slightly concerned, as the fish seem to be breathing fast. I'll keep an eye on them. They are still actively looking for food, and they do not appear to be darker.


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joshvito
10-12-2012, 02:51 PM
As noted in post #71, the non contest fish on the other side of the divided are breathing fast and a few have turned dark.
this is a list of the planned/performed meds I have added to the tank.

Documenting the medication of the fish in the tank.
10/01/12 - API General Cure - General Cure™ Powder (treatment 1 per package directions)
10/03/12 - API General Cure - General Cure™ Powder (treatment 2 per package directions)
10/05/12 - 30 minute 1% salt bath
10/12/12 - Jungle Labs Fungus Eliminator (treatment 1 per package directions)

10/15?/12 - Kordon's Rid·Ich+ -Planned

If the fish don't look too stressed, and the tank parameters are safe/stable, and the Fungus Eliminator is fully dispersed from the water column; I will treat with Rid·Ich+ per package directions.

The tank receives daily water changes, and the last check for Nitrite = 0, and Nitrate was low <10.


API General Cure:
Treats a wide variety of parasitic diseases including velvet, anchor worm, fish lice, hole-in-the-head disease (Hexamita spp. & Spironucleus spp.), gill & skin flukes (Dactylogyrus spp. & Gyrodactylus spp.).

Jungle Labs Fungus Eliminator:
Active ingredients: NaCl, Nitrofurazone, furazolidone, potassium dichromate.
Diseases: Columnaris, furunculosis, Costia, dropsy, fin and mouth rot, white film on eyes (usually cataracts and cloudy eyes), hemorrhage septicemia

Kordon's Rid·Ich+
a combination of two powerful medications which have proven effective in the control of many diseases of freshwater fishes caused by external protozoan (single cell) parasites such as white spot disease, Ichthyophthiriasis, Costia, Trichodina, Chilodonella and saltwater external parasites such as Cryptocaryon and Amyloodinium . The medication can also treat fungal infections in fishes.

joshvito
10-14-2012, 09:55 PM
All meds have been removed from the water. I haven't decided if I am going to dose with the rid ick+ yet.

All fish got a salt bath today while performing their daily water change. I also tested the water to check that my parameters are okay.

PH - 8.0
TDS - 215
NH3/NH4 - 0
Nitrite - 0 test strip
Nitrate - 0 test strip
Nitrate - 0-5.0 mg/L


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joshvito
10-14-2012, 09:56 PM
http://img.tapatalk.com/d/12/10/15/ny3ubydy.jpg


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joshvito
10-23-2012, 09:42 PM
I finally got around to puting a coat of paint on the back of this tank. I am hoping it makes the fish less tentative.

After watching the fish for the last week, the fish do not have the expected feeding response, and they still continue to breath faster. Since the water parameters have been stable for the last week, I decided to dose with Rid Ick + to treat for protozoans.

I am dosing according to package instructions.
Day 1 of treatment was yesterday.
Day 2 of treatment is today.


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joshvito
10-26-2012, 02:34 PM
10/24/2012 - No WC or treatment of Rid Ick +
10/25/2012 - Treatment 3 of Rid Ick +

joshvito
10-26-2012, 05:31 PM
Treatment 4 today - Rid Ick +

The fish show increased signs of activity and feeding vigor.
Most likely today will be the last day of this treatment cycle.


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joshvito
10-30-2012, 08:36 PM
Fish are definitely show an improved coloration and disposition. I'm confident that the problem was a protozoan issue. The fish are aggressively eating flake food and small pellets as previously posted.

Total treatment time was 3.5 doses over 5 day span. From 10/22/12 to 10/27/12.



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joshvito
11-12-2012, 10:58 PM
My routine hasn't changed since my previous posts.
The grow out tank gets a 50% WC daily. The fish are fed 3x a day. Still eating flakes, .6mm pellets, and blackworms. Lately, I've been giving them FDBW s instead of live. Just because its a bit less work.

I added a bag of peat to the tank, it floats on the top. I plan on adding a bit of barley straw in the near future. My hope is that the straw and peat will keep the parasites under control. It will definitely keep the algae away.


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joshvito
11-13-2012, 03:29 PM
One of my 8 contest fish is really lacking in growth compared to his/her tank mates. This fish was chosen as a final 8 fish because it had a nice shape, even though it was smaller than the others at that time.

This poor little guy hasn't been looking as good as the rest, but he is eating and active. However, he doesn't seem to be putting on any size. I'll keep this thread updated, but there is no change to how I am treating/feeding the group currently. I may move this fish to another tank if his condition does not improve.

joshvito
11-18-2012, 09:47 PM
I added a bag of barley straw to the tank this past week.

The fish are all eating aggressively and look healthy. The small runt is usually the first one to food, but as stated earlier, he/she is very small.

There is no change to my maintenance schedule.


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joshvito
12-14-2012, 11:24 PM
I've been mainly posting photos every week in another thread. However, I thought I'd document the fact that my daily WC of ~30 gallons has not been altered. Occasionally I will skip a day, and measure for nitrite and nitrate. I can never seem to get a reading on the test strips, and the nitrite test kit is always yellow like in the previous post #80. I've kept the same bag of peat and straw in the tank since last month. I don't plan on changing the barley straw any time soon, it Definately keeps the algae away(for now). The peat is probably due for a change in the next day or so.

Ill hit the big 6month mark on Christmas, so there will be lots of measurement photos and probably a video soon.


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kimbo
12-14-2012, 11:34 PM
I really like the oddball looks of your male. The face marks and almost florescent eye, I hope you do well. Good luck!

joshvito
12-16-2012, 03:57 PM
More light in the tank makes a world of difference on these quick photos.
I think the fish are still getting used to the brightness. Most seem more active too.
http://img.tapatalk.com/d/12/12/17/u9apy3a3.jpg


http://youtu.be/B6NUxCHdezg


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Fundulopanchax
12-25-2012, 03:46 PM
Josh, extremely nice thread! I am new to the site having for some reason never run across it and am going through the various forum topics. Your thread is extremely enjoyable. I have been keeping fish since the late 1960s and have certainly had your disease experience when feeding blackworms. I admit that I do still use them from time to time for killifish, which dont seem to mind the infestations I assume they get, but discus and angels always get slammed at some point so I havent used live blackworms for the past 25 years or so with them. I even buy frozen black worms and keep them frozen for several additional months since the cysts of some of the common contaminants can last at least 4 months frozen and some longer.

Thanks again,

Ron

joshvito
12-28-2012, 11:38 AM
Josh, extremely nice thread! I am new to the site having for some reason never run across it and am going through the various forum topics. Your thread is extremely enjoyable. I have been keeping fish since the late 1960s and have certainly had your disease experience when feeding blackworms. I admit that I do still use them from time to time for killifish, which dont seem to mind the infestations I assume they get, but discus and angels always get slammed at some point so I havent used live blackworms for the past 25 years or so with them. I even buy frozen black worms and keep them frozen for several additional months since the cysts of some of the common contaminants can last at least 4 months frozen and some longer.

Thanks again,

Ron

Ron,
Thank you for weighing in on the blackworm feeding. It has been something I have suspected from the get go, but just wasn't sure. It was one of those things I wanted to see for myself. What I would really like to do is keep two tanks from the same spawn, and feed both tanks the same, except include live worms in one tanks regiment.

The one reason I have suspected live blackworms as the differentiator, is that I did not lose any fish from the spawn, until I started the live worms. Although, the fish I lost were always from a larger group of fish, and the 8 contest fish are all still alive and active. Hard to say without a control group. Also, I am curious about what is causing the parasite infestation from feeding the blackworms live. Are the worms themselves the problem, or is it the water the worms are housed in? Why are the adult discus I feed not affected when they receive a portion of live worms daily?

I'm sure these question have been asked elsewhere on this forum. Maybe a search will give us more info. I would like to see a well documented case for or against the correlation we are theorizing, I have only read arguments for both sides and never seen anything conclusive.

Eddie
12-28-2012, 08:55 PM
Ron,
Thank you for weighing in on the blackworm feeding. It has been something I have suspected from the get go, but just wasn't sure. It was one of those things I wanted to see for myself. What I would really like to do is keep two tanks from the same spawn, and feed both tanks the same, except include live worms in one tanks regiment.

The one reason I have suspected live blackworms as the differentiator, is that I did not lose any fish from the spawn, until I started the live worms. Although, the fish I lost were always from a larger group of fish, and the 8 contest fish are all still alive and active. Hard to say without a control group. Also, I am curious about what is causing the parasite infestation from feeding the blackworms live. Are the worms themselves the problem, or is it the water the worms are housed in? Why are the adult discus I feed not affected when they receive a portion of live worms daily?

I'm sure these question have been asked elsewhere on this forum. Maybe a search will give us more info. I would like to see a well documented case for or against the correlation we are theorizing, I have only read arguments for both sides and never seen anything conclusive.

I think it's a combination of things, both parasitic and bacteria. Finding exactly what causes the outbreak can be difficult.

joshvito
12-31-2012, 02:06 PM
I've cut the live blackworms from the feeding schedule for the past 4 days. I'm going to feed other foods for a few weeks and see if I notice any changes.

I also have been keeping a 1tbs per 5 gallon salt level in the tank, which I will slowly eliminate after 7 days.


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joshvito
01-13-2013, 08:56 PM
Finally installed a laundry tub sink in my fishroom today. It was quite the project, but now I can perform larger water changes.

Tested the sink today, by doing a 90% WC.

MGKelly
01-14-2013, 01:20 AM
I wouldn't add water directly from the faucet even if it's de-chlorinated because of the additional harm of PH shock.
let the water sit 24 hours and match the temp if at all possible, been there and done that!

J

joshvito
01-14-2013, 09:48 AM
Ill check the pH of the tap versus the tank tonight. Where does the difference come from?

joshvito
01-14-2013, 08:58 PM
Ill check the pH of the tap versus the tank tonight. Where does the difference come from?

@MGKelly,
You have me worried that I am causing pH shock by adding tap water straight to the tank. So I checked my pH of the tank tonight before the water change, and I checked my source water (lukewarm tap) .

Tank water
http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/01/15/nereqeze.jpg

Tap water
http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/01/15/umuzubaq.jpg

MGKelly
01-15-2013, 12:51 AM
Looks OK 7.5 for both, just making you aware, I once went from 6.8 to 7.6 and the discus looked exactly as mentioned = shocked
and i unknowingly did it several time. discus acted like "The Swimming Dead"

joshvito
01-15-2013, 10:12 AM
Mgkelly,
Thank you for the heads up. I will keep a close eye on 'em.

joshvito
01-21-2013, 06:27 PM
Been working on setting up a drip system to keep the water changes in my fishroom a bit less maintenance.

More to come ...

joshvito
01-27-2013, 02:31 PM
PH - 7.5-8
NH3/NH4 - 0
Nitrite/nitrat test strp - 0
NO3- - 0-5ppm
Deg gKH - 3-4
ppm GH/KH - 53.7-71.6
TDS - 132ppm

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/01/28/era8e9yb.jpg

joshvito
01-27-2013, 07:14 PM
Fish are not happy today. Not sure what the deal is ...

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/01/28/byhuhuqe.jpg

joshvito
02-01-2013, 07:03 PM
pH - 7.5
Nh3/nh4 - 0
Nitrate - 0-5 ppm

Haven't done a WC since last post.

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/02/02/hyta2e3y.jpg

joshvito
02-10-2013, 09:26 PM
Tank has been on the drip overflow system for about 1 week. Dripping 2gph into 55g tank.

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/02/11/emu6u7ev.jpg

Fish look dark. They are eating as expected. Not sure if/what ales them.

PH - 8
Nitrate - 0-5ppm

Harry Marsh
02-10-2013, 09:29 PM
Sorry if i missed this: you're doing the drip with tapwater? Chlorinated? (i skimmed above)

Adding dechlorinator?

I have a drip system as well. I once left it on all night: everything dead in the morning (no dechlorinator was able to be added overnight). It was an accident...I forgot to turn it off....

joshvito
02-12-2013, 01:35 PM
Sorry if i missed this: you're doing the drip with tapwater? Chlorinated? (i skimmed above)

Adding dechlorinator?

I have a drip system as well. I once left it on all night: everything dead in the morning (no dechlorinator was able to be added overnight). It was an accident...I forgot to turn it off....

i am not adding any dechlorinator, but there is an inline sediment and carbon filter to remove chlorine

joshvito
02-23-2013, 11:54 AM
Sad to say, the runt of my eighth perished yesterday. He was getting more and more skeleton like, and stopped eating a week ago.

Down to 7

joshvito
02-24-2013, 11:57 AM
Morning water testing

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/02/24/eqy2eqa6.jpg

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/02/24/3azy2u9e.jpg

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/02/24/e2ynusu4.jpg

joshvito
03-06-2013, 05:00 PM
I doubled my drip rate on my drip over flow from ~50% daily change to ~80% calculated from http://www.angelfish.net/DripSystemcalc.php

I would consider my fish to be growing slower than some of the other's contestants, and hope this change will help me catch up a bit. We'll see, I could never register high Nitrates, Nitrites, or ammonia in the tank at 50%, so maybe the problem is diet related or a combination of both.

I will say, that this first time spawn has taught me a great deal and I now have the itch to try again. Now I see how some of you have multiple pairs and multiple tanks.

Kal-El
03-06-2013, 05:13 PM
I doubled my drip rate on my drip over flow from ~50% daily change to ~80% calculated from http://www.angelfish.net/DripSystemcalc.php

I would consider my fish to be growing slower than some of the other's contestants, and hope this change will help me catch up a bit. We'll see, I could never register high Nitrates, Nitrites, or ammonia in the tank at 50%, so maybe the problem is diet related or a combination of both.

I will say, that this first time spawn has taught me a great deal and I now have the itch to try again. Now I see how some of you have multiple pairs and multiple tanks.

Try doing 100% daily WC if you can. What I've learn is clean water and a good diet is the key to their growth success. I got the same fish Josie has and I'm doing what she is doing and my biggest fish is growing at the same rate as her contest fish.

When I first got them they range from 1.5-2.5". Between that size to 4" I did 150% daily WC in a 29gallon. 50% in the morning and 100% at night. Feed them 4-5 times a day. Now they are in my 75 gallon in which I do 80% daily.

I'm sure if you up the WC your fish will grow at a faster rate... Good luck...

joshvito
03-15-2013, 07:22 PM
Here is a video at about 8.5 months.
Fish are eating Freeze Dried Beefheart from Aquatic Foods (http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showthread.php?103798-Beef-Heart-Mix-as-Freeze-Dried-Frozen-and-Flakes&p=973256&viewfull=1#post973256).


http://youtu.be/wNMjadpZcEE

joshvito
05-19-2013, 02:45 PM
I haven't changed my schedule with this tank, and the water parameters have stayed consistent. I did remove the poret foam divider for cleaning and replaced it with a home made divider of my own invention.

Since I removed the poret foam divider/filter, I added a whisper power filter I had laying around.


youtube link

a volar
05-19-2013, 02:56 PM
I haven't changed my schedule with this tank, and the water parameters have stayed consistent. I did remove the poret foam divider for cleaning and replaced it with a home made divider of my own invention.

Since I removed the poret foam divider/filter, I added a whisper power filter I had laying around.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iQxjCCjHcEo&feature=youtube_gdata_player

Link doesn't work......

rdiscus
05-19-2013, 03:10 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iQxjCCjHcEo

joshvito
07-01-2013, 09:57 AM
Stay tuned all, I'm working on getting my 12 months measurement shots together and taking some final photos of my best 2 fish.

TheMutlu
11-26-2013, 02:38 PM
It would be like breeding 2 plow horses and getting a race horse...possible, but very, very unlikely.

-john

Perfect touch john, :)

joshvito
12-04-2013, 11:42 AM
These fish are now ~1.5yrs old.
Here is a quick video from last night.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4JKB6F_b18o

At what point do most of you move your fish from their grow out tank to the display tank? I'm assuming the advantage of a grow out tank is non-existent at 1.5yrs.

Discusdude7
12-04-2013, 02:57 PM
How big now?