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View Full Version : Eeeek. I was not prepared for this....



Orange Crush
07-20-2012, 03:48 AM
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DiscusDrew
07-20-2012, 03:54 AM
Awww congrats!!! Is it your first time as a potential momma?

Orange Crush
07-20-2012, 04:07 AM
Awww congrats!!! Is it your first time as a potential momma?
Yup. I have done lots of reading on this forum but not in the breeding section because I did not think this would happen. lol
Is it common for the discus to get darker than normal? (she/he is not as dark as my picture makes it look like though)
Does the female or male do the most guarding of the eggs? I see they take turns but one does the most; I do not know which is the female. :(
Since this is their first attempt I am not expecting it to work but when they are successful what will the offspring of a virgin red and a blue SS/Scorpion be?
I only saw the virgin red doing the shimmy but not the blue so I did not think I would find eggs!

DiscusDrew
07-20-2012, 04:24 AM
Well in the picture the eggs appear almost white already, so might only have a confirmed female in there but hard to say yet. My males tend to be the better parents overall and I think thats the general concensus. I breed mostly pigeon based fish and do not see much if any change in color usually, however, the dark angels I just got in... they change COMPLETELY for their fry, turning dark which helps with attachment and such down the road. My female turned BRIGHT almost cobalt blue, and the male's whole top half turned a dark purple, so it probably is due to the spawn. Im not a breeding pro yet, and am just dabbling my feet into genetics which is why I will defer your third question, especially since I only breed pigeon based strains at the moment. If what Im thinking is correct though I dont see any real issue with those potential fry, could be very interesting to see. Rick and Rod would be great to ask that question too, hopefully they will see this thread. Both of them have been invaluable to me with the genetics/breeding part of this journey. The virgin red is non-pigeon red, then your turq, Im guessing half and half with some exceptions? Like I said I am not educated enough to make a claim. Thats why I only breed what I know and understand at least half way haha.

Orange Crush
07-20-2012, 04:31 AM
Well in the picture the eggs appear almost white already, so might only have a confirmed female in there but hard to say yet.
The picture does not do a good job at showing the color of the discus or the eggs. I am a poor photographer using a phone camera - any picture I take is doomed!
2 of the eggs are white and not fertalized but the others look like they were fertalized. However, I am only guessing on this based on my experience of breeding apistogrammas a lot.

DiscusDrew
07-20-2012, 04:33 AM
Well I'll be watching this cute couple make progress, i'm excited for you. Are they in a community tank right now?

DiscusDrew
07-20-2012, 04:35 AM
In my experience with breeding it will take a few days to determine if they are definitely fertilized.

Orange Crush
07-20-2012, 04:46 AM
Are they in a community tank right now?
Yes, that is perhaps why the virgin red parent is darker than normal. The other fish keep coming near and they have to shoo them away. I have a medusa pleco, 3 apistos, 6 discus and 12+ amanos (not sure how many, I started with 12 but they are multiplying).
Tomorrow I will set up a 20 gal and put the pair and the plant they laid the eggs on in the tank. Thank goodness I have it in a terra cotta pot.

DiscusDrew
07-20-2012, 05:03 AM
I would maybe either put a divider up or just leave them for a few more spawns, they should start going once a week. Let them learn to spawn, get on a schedule, defend the eggs, they probably wont keep any of the eggs or wigglers if they allow them to get that far, but it will help them establish as a breeding pair. Then pull them exactly as you described, I try to do it a day or two before they are scheduled to spawn. It has worked well for me and made for smooth transfers outside of their normal tank. I hope that helps.

Orange Crush
07-22-2012, 07:53 PM
They both ate the eggs yesterday, not that I am surprised by this since this was their first time. Still a bummer though.

xxbenjamminxx
07-22-2012, 08:22 PM
Sorry to hear that. Also when my BDs starting laying eggs I got excited and it has knocked them off the weekly egg laying cycle they had going on. So might be better off leaving them right where they are until you know they are a confirmed pair and get the wiggler stage a time or two. No experience but from what I read it can help make them better parents. (<---- Dont know if that is true or not)

Also are you sure your Amano's are breeding in there? They typically need brackish water for the little ones to hatch/grow out. I know of a thread I was following on Plantedtank of a guy trying to breed and raise them but could never get them past the larvae stage or whatever they call it. If they are he might care to know your water parameters and such. Not saying its impossible, but would like to see a confirmed case of it without all the salt water since they are great algae eaters and I think they look neat. :) Again just going off the endless hours of pointless research I do when I am bored.

Keith Perkins
07-23-2012, 12:00 AM
A virgin red and snakeskin pairing is going to give you virgin reds. I previously had a rose rose paired with a snakeskin and they always produced rose reds. Rod thinks the rose and virgin reds have the same origin. There is a very recent thread, within the last few days, discussing this exact pairing and asking the same question and Rod, myself, and a couple others weighed in on it.

I'd considering getting a breeding tank set up adjacent to the current tank soon. I use to think exactly like Ben and Drew that you should let a pair get some experience before you moved them. Then I recently ran into a pair where the male would always eat the eggs. In talking (PMing) with the admin Paul he said as logical as it seemed to leave a pair get experience, sometimes in their little heads they see eating the eggs as the best way to protect them. Unfortunately sometimes when they learn this "protective behavior" they continue it whether there are other threats around or not. Good luck and I hope you're able to confirm they're a pair soon.

DiscusDrew
07-23-2012, 01:50 AM
Thats a good point Keith that I hadnt really thought about. I suppose my main point was simply that it takes more time if you move them prematurely... they will or at least should start spawning again, however it may take some time. Leaving them in the tank to establish a cycle of sorts seems to eliminate this in my experience. However I could completely see how you could end up in a situation where your having to cage the eggs consistently, which would be a huge pita. I may have to do an experiment next time I shuffle breeders and see what i find out. So far allowing them to establish and then moving them has been beneficial, but usually in my situation I havent had egg eaters, so its completely pheasable that this poor trend could develop.

Keith Perkins
07-23-2012, 08:07 AM
I wish I had thought of it. I now have the one fish in my growout group that I really wanted to breed that constantly eats eggs as they're being laid. Even caging isn't an option anymore, and as best I can tell this was probably with only about a half dozen spawns. Just when I thought surely the fish should be catching on most anytime. Some probably just never do. Fortunately this is the only fish I've ever had that was nearly this bad.

Orange Crush
07-23-2012, 02:01 PM
There is a very recent thread, within the last few days, discussing this exact pairing and asking the same question and Rod, myself, and a couple others weighed in on it.
Yes, I started that thread since Drew thought I should get Rod and Rick's opinions - which I did. :)
I will move them to the 20 G asap but how long can 2 discus stay in there? It just seems so small for 2 discus. Also, what about the 4 left in the 75G? Won't that cause aggression problems since they will not be a group of 6 anymore?

DiscusDrew
07-23-2012, 02:12 PM
Not necessarily, the remaining group will be a but more skittish I would guess and probably not eat as well. The two in the 20 is no biggy, you could keep them in there indefinitely. I use 29's for my breeder tanks but its just a personal preference, I know plenty that use 20's. They'll be fine, may take a bit for them to eat and a month or more to start breeding successfully but fish are funny so who knows.

Rummy
07-23-2012, 02:43 PM
OC, regardless of what the outcome was, congrats. It is exciting to see a spawn in your own tank for the first time. Makes it all worth it, doesn't it?

Enjoy.

Keith Perkins
07-23-2012, 04:31 PM
What Drew said, though I think he's sand bagging a bit on the times it will take your fish to settle in on their new living arrangements. I went from 6 to 3 in a 55 gallon tank recently over a very rapid period of time and the 3 remaining fish pretty much acted like nothing ever happened. A horny pair of discus usually don't waste too much time getting back into their routine either, so I wouldn't be surprised if they spawned within a week of when you moved them. It could take as long as Drew said, but I'd say that's probably pretty close to worst case scenerio.

Orange Crush
07-23-2012, 04:41 PM
It is exciting to see a spawn in your own tank for the first time. Makes it all worth it, doesn't it?
One of the many reasons it is worth it :)

Orange Crush
07-23-2012, 11:45 PM
Well, she spawned again......

Keith Perkins
07-23-2012, 11:50 PM
I wouldn't be too worried about interrupting that hussies cycle!

Orange Crush
07-24-2012, 06:33 AM
I wouldn't be too worried about interrupting that hussies cycle!
lol

Orange Crush
07-24-2012, 03:53 PM
Stupid question........last night I moved them into the 20 G along with the amazon sword that has eggs on the rim of the pot, but now I cannot do a large water change without the water level going below the eggs. Do I need to keep water on the eggs at all times or can I do a 90% water change?

shoveltrash
07-24-2012, 05:57 PM
from what I have READ, it's ok to drop the water level below the eggs.....for a very short time. altho opinions vary. here's one thread addressing this: http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showthread.php?50396-Water-change-and-feeding-frequency-after-eggs-are-laid.&highlight=eggs+water+change
(keep in mind I am NOT a breeding expert LOL)

Orange Crush
07-24-2012, 06:46 PM
from what I have READ, it's ok to drop the water level below the eggs.....for a very short time. altho opinions vary. here's one thread addressing this: http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showthread.php?50396-Water-change-and-feeding-frequency-after-eggs-are-laid.&highlight=eggs+water+change
(keep in mind I am NOT a breeding expert LOL)
Thanks Trish, that helped a lot!

Orange Crush
07-24-2012, 07:19 PM
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Orange Crush
07-25-2012, 02:49 AM
It is so much fun watching them care for the eggs in the 20 gallon. Taking turns, fanning them and watching them. Awesome.

CrazyAngels
07-25-2012, 10:05 AM
OC instead of 90% WC do 50% twice a day in the breeding tank, this will help you from getting down to the eggs and possibly getting the parents from loosing concentration on the little guys. Best of luck to you.

DiscusDrew
07-25-2012, 05:03 PM
OC instead of 90% WC do 50% twice a day in the breeding tank, this will help you from getting down to the eggs and possibly getting the parents from loosing concentration on the little guys. Best of luck to you.
+1 this is generally what I do, I don't like doing anything that might affect the eggs. I know people do it so this is a personal preference but my breeders stay very clean anyway so even one 50% change is plenty in most instances. I do them twice a day right before they hatch though because during attachment you will minimize water changes for a few days so I get the water as clean as possible before the eggs pop.

Orange Crush
07-25-2012, 06:51 PM
OC instead of 90% WC do 50% twice a day in the breeding tank, this will help you from getting down to the eggs and possibly getting the parents from loosing concentration on the little guys. Best of luck to you.


+1 this is generally what I do.

Thank you both!

Orange Crush
07-26-2012, 04:48 AM
OMG, OMG, OMG! I have wrigglers!!!!!
I'm so excited, I have a confirmed pair!

shoveltrash
07-26-2012, 05:04 AM
congratulations!!!! :D

Orange Crush
07-26-2012, 05:10 AM
congratulations!!!! :D
I'm too excited to sleep now. At least I do not have classes again until Friday. lol

Second Hand Pat
07-26-2012, 09:28 AM
Congrats OC, so exciting for you :) Time to learn about hatching BBS.

Orange Crush
07-26-2012, 02:20 PM
Congrats OC, so exciting for you :) Time to learn about hatching BBS.
Yup, I read mmorris and David Rose's posts on hatching BBS but it looks like such a PITA. I have frozen BBS from all the apisto fry I raised. Is that not good enough? Would fry not survive on frozen BBS?

Second Hand Pat
07-26-2012, 02:23 PM
They may if you can get them to eat it.

Keith Perkins
07-26-2012, 02:29 PM
Now is not the time to start looking for short cuts. Get to work, set up a bbs hatchery. Get a hold of some good bbs from someplace like brine shrimp direct too, the lfs stuff normally has really poor hatch rates. It's really not that hard to do, you just have to get the process down. Congrats on the wrigglers, any idea how many you have?

DiscusDrew
07-26-2012, 02:40 PM
Honestly Holly you will be happy if you take the advice and just set up a little brine shrimp hatchery, even if its only one bottle for now, you do need to order artemia cyst's however and get those on the way, kensfish has good ones, brineshrimpdirect, or angelfishusa has some good ones as well. Kieth's set-up with an old 10 gal (yes I coppied it too kieth haha) works like a champ but you can go even simpler than that. Start with one if you want, in which case go to youtube and search "hatching baby brine shrimp" there is a video on making a simple little one out of a one liter bottle, its a small version but probably enough for you honestly speaking since its only one batch. You want to do this Holly I promise, you may not be able to get them to eat the frozen ones for a while, if at all, and even if you do the growth rate just isnt the same. I promise it isnt that complicated, took me about an hour to set-up a full hatchers that can produce up to three batches a day. This should be your biggest focus right now but you have a little bit of time at least so dont stress, you just need to make a list and get the stuff ordered that you will need. Hell Kensfish even sells a readymade BBS Hatchery that you just hook up to air for 8 bucks at the very least. Were here to help you the best we can my friend, and again congrats.

JenTN
07-26-2012, 02:45 PM
I raised mine w/o bbs because mine wouldnt hatch (just got an order in from bsd thanks to Gary). It was a looot of work and took 3 wc a day. Had to have the fry swimming in ground up food. I had a high rate of culls, I suspect from the lack of bbs. I also left them on the parents for 2 weeks and 150-200 fry took a toll on them.

DiscusDrew
07-26-2012, 02:50 PM
Yeah see thats what we all want to avoid, but great post Jen, its SO much harder to raise the fry without live BBS, than it would be to just set up a small hatchery. I just wrote you a super long PM Holly so I hope that helps to some degree with some of the adventure ahead!!! Im very excited for you and its awsome you got wigglers on their second round, may be lining up to be good parents you have there!

JenTN
07-26-2012, 02:52 PM
Yeah see thats what we all want to avoid, but great post Jen, its SO much harder to raise the fry without live BBS, than it would be to just set up a small hatchery. I just wrote you a super long PM Holly so I hope that helps to some degree with some of the adventure ahead!!! Im very excited for you and its awsome you got wigglers on their second round, may be lining up to be good parents you have there!

Yeah, it was definitely more work than setting up the hatcheries!

Orange Crush
07-26-2012, 04:02 PM
Here are the wrigglers. As you can see on the left is the original spawning site with some eggs that did not hatch and they moved the wrigglers to the right of that. Such good parents!

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Orange Crush
07-26-2012, 04:04 PM
Just ordered 8 oz of premium BS eggs from Brineshrimp Direct. :)

DiscusDrew
07-26-2012, 04:07 PM
They are doing an astonishingly good job thus far caring for the wigglers/potential fry. Thats awesome. That should last you a while on the brine shrimp eggs, glad you decided to take the advice and make that happen, you'll be happy you did.

Orange Crush
07-26-2012, 04:07 PM
They are doing an astonishingly good job thus far caring for the wigglers/potential fry. Thats awesome. That should last you a while on the brine shrimp eggs, glad you decided to take the advice and make that happen, you'll be happy you did.
I'm not an asKhole. lol :p

Disgirl
07-26-2012, 04:27 PM
Congrats Holly! I think they will be spawning next time on something blue??? Def. do the BBS thing!
Barb

JenTN
07-26-2012, 04:40 PM
Just ordered 8 oz of premium BS eggs from Brineshrimp Direct. :)

I got mine quick, I thinl I ordered Monday and they came today, regular shipping.

Orange Crush
07-26-2012, 05:06 PM
Congrats Holly! I think they will be spawning next time on something blue??? Def. do the BBS thing!
Barb
Yes, it will be blue and cone shaped! How did you guess Barb? lol

Orange Crush
07-26-2012, 06:22 PM
Okay so they moved the wrigglers again. What is up with that????

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JenTN
07-26-2012, 06:36 PM
Mine moved them at least once a day...at night they bedded em down on a suction cup once they went free swimming.

Keith Perkins
07-26-2012, 07:07 PM
Okay so they moved the wrigglers again. What is up with that????

It's called an excellent parenting skill. Good thing you got moving on the bbs, I think you're going to be needing them. Do you have any idea how fortunate that would be? I bet I had about 2 dozen spawns from two pair before I ever got my first fry.

Second Hand Pat
07-26-2012, 07:23 PM
Just wait until you see them attaching to the parents, a most enduring sight :) Discus brood care is like no other.

Orange Crush
07-26-2012, 07:49 PM
It's called an excellent parenting skill. Good thing you got moving on the bbs, I think you're going to be needing them. Do you have any idea how fortunate that would be? I bet I had about 2 dozen spawns from two pair before I ever got my first fry.
Okay but what is the purpose of moving them?
I feel very lucky indeed. Also, excited and a little bit freaked out.

Keith Perkins
07-26-2012, 07:55 PM
They're re-hiding them, lol. I've never had parents eat wrigglers that they've moved.

Orange Crush
07-27-2012, 02:48 AM
I thought maybe people might like to see the parents.
Also a picture of the wrigglers I took a few minutes ago.

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Keith Perkins
07-27-2012, 09:58 AM
Looking good. Nice little batch for them to start out with too. Enough to definitely make it worth wild, but not so many to overwhelm them on their first go. Hoping to see attachment pictures soon.

Orange Crush
07-28-2012, 01:35 AM
Waiting.....impatiently.....for attatchment......it's been about 45 hours since the eggs 1st started hatching.......don't they know I have to leave at 8am for school and won't get done until 6pm tomorrow?????? :angry:

DiscusDrew
07-28-2012, 03:17 AM
Make sure you leave the lights on and give them the best possible change of seeing their dark parents and clinging to them. From my PM it sounds like you got the cheese clothe going to help cover the dark sponge, which is great. Best of luck my friend.... Like Kieth said though.... This is freaking ridiculous haha, Im SO happy and proud of you, however, I have worked my a$$ off to get pairs to spawn, especially starting out, and get this far along and behaving SO perfectly. Seriously Holly, what you have going on right now is not common by any means and is a huge blessing that they are so instinctively taking this every step of the way so far. I would give my left leg... and possibly some other body parts for all my pairs to be such great parents. Id also be rich.. lol

Orange Crush
07-28-2012, 03:18 AM
Now they have moved them onto the underside of the amazon sword leaves. They move these wrigglers like 7 times a day. There is good parenting and then there is OCD? ;)

DiscusDrew
07-28-2012, 03:20 AM
You never learned that they inherit traits from their owners? Yeah... I said it... ;)

Orange Crush
07-28-2012, 03:29 AM
Make sure you leave the lights on and give them the best possible change of seeing their dark parents and clinging to them. From my PM it sounds like you got the cheese clothe going to help cover the dark sponge, which is great. Best of luck my friend.... Like Kieth said though.... This is freaking ridiculous haha, Im SO happy and proud of you, however, I have worked my a$$ off to get pairs to spawn, especially starting out, and get this far along and behaving SO perfectly. Seriously Holly, what you have going on right now is not common by any means and is a huge blessing that they are so instinctively taking this every step of the way so far. I would give my left leg... and possibly some other body parts for all my pairs to be such great parents. Id also be rich.. lol
Yup, I have the cheesecloth on the filter since I will not be around tomorrow to help them.
I counted at least 40 wrigglers, when they attatch what % does not?
I can tell you why it has been going so well so far. I did not want any of my discus to breed. I have no idea what I am going to do with all the fish. I've never shipped discus so that freaks me out. I would not trust my LFS with them (although they are great with everything else - I sell them my apistos and plants). I do not know anyone around here who would buy them. I would want to keep some but we are house hunting right now and I do not have the space for more tanks at our condo and even if I did the thought of getting more stuff that is gonna have to be moved is annoying. This is why it is going so well.
Don't get me wrong, this is very amazing to watch and be a part of and I am going to do all that I can for them, but shhheeesh. Don't hate me. lol

Orange Crush
07-28-2012, 03:30 AM
You never learned that they inherit traits from their owners? Yeah... I said it... ;)
:p

Keith Perkins
07-28-2012, 10:29 AM
You never learned that they inherit traits from their owners? Yeah... I said it... ;)

I'm glad I'm not the only one who thought something like that. :D


Yup, I have the cheesecloth on the filter since I will not be around tomorrow to help them.
I counted at least 40 wrigglers, when they attach what % does not?
I can tell you why it has been going so well so far. I did not want any of my discus to breed. I have no idea what I am going to do with all the fish. I've never shipped discus so that freaks me out. I would not trust my LFS with them (although they are great with everything else - I sell them my apistos and plants). I do not know anyone around here who would buy them. I would want to keep some but we are house hunting right now and I do not have the space for more tanks at our condo and even if I did the thought of getting more stuff that is gonna have to be moved is annoying. This is why it is going so well.
Don't get me wrong, this is very amazing to watch and be a part of and I am going to do all that I can for them, but shhheeesh. Don't hate me. lol

Breeding isn't for everyone all the time, no doubt about that. It certainly adds a whole new level of work and anxiety. I'm not the best at selling mine either, so I understand your concern. Guess I don't work nearly as hard on the selling as I do the raising. You might be surprised if you list them on Craiglist, Aquabid, etc. how many you can sell locally, but we're getting a tad ahead of ourselves at this point. Still need to get attachment and then at least a few days/week old to be sure the pair is going to go the distance.

You can always pull eggs you don't want to deal with, but I bet you can't resist to try to go the distance with this batch.

Oh, you had a question about % attachment. It varies a LOT. It could be as high as the high 90%s to much much less. I just had an unusual batch where I only got 25% or so to attachment, but then again the batch started at nearly 300.

Orange Crush
07-28-2012, 10:35 PM
I'm glad I'm not the only one who thought something like that. :D
:p Actually, I would say that I am more of a perfectionist and not really OCD.

Orange Crush
07-28-2012, 10:58 PM
Okay so, some funny observations....
1) I can no longer put my hand in the tank while cleaning or they will bite me. I have been placed on notice.
2) When mom is hungry she swims away from the wrigglers and over to the front of the tank and stares at me, so I give her food. She is a pig and eats it all while dad guards the wrigglers. So when she is done dad swims up to front of tank and then jumps up hitting the top of the plastic lid to get my attention for more food. Message received!
3) Dad picks up a wriggler that tried to swim away and then saw a piece of food and put that in his mouth as well. I though well that is one less wriggler but then he swam back to the pot and spit the wriggler out but not the piece of food. Amazing.
4) Some of the wrigglers are trying to attatch to the parents but if the parents see it they grab them and spit them back onto the pot. However, some slip by and hang onto the parent while the parent frantically swims around trying to find it. unfortunatly the other discus will see it and put it back onto the pot. Reminds me of the looney tunes.
5) This morning the wrigglers were on the leaves and mom decided to move them back to the rim of the pot. She grabs several spits them out and goes back to the leaves for another batch. In the meantime dad sees them on the pot and thinks they should be on the leaves so he grabs several from the pot and spits them back onto the leaves. This continued for a little while but, in the end mom got her way and they were all on the pot. Reminds me of Laurel and Hardy.

Keith Perkins
07-28-2012, 11:24 PM
:p Actually, I would say that I am more of a perfectionist and not really OCD.

Of course you would, that's what they all say. :)

Yes, there's nothing quite like watching the first batch of discus fry. Hopefully the enjoyment will carry you through the work and in the end you're really happy with the results. It is a lot of fun if you can handle the demands, and it sounds like you've got a couple very demanding parents. That hitting the lid to get your attention is a hoot. I'm sure I've never heard that one before.

DiscusDrew
07-28-2012, 11:30 PM
Yeah absolutely not, that had me laughing pretty hard (hitting the lid).... Hopefully they start figuring out the attachment thing pretty soon, if enough wigglers are there they will get swarmed hopefully and they wont have a choice but to let them attach... theres a time limit to this part of the story... slime coat = food source. You should still be fine at this point but they best be getting on it, with how well they have parented thus far (kind of crazy and unheard of in my fish room anyway) hopefully they will figure out the next step of parenting pretty quick.

Orange Crush
07-28-2012, 11:38 PM
Of course you would, that's what they all say. :)

Yes, there's nothing quite like watching the first batch of discus fry. Hopefully the enjoyment will carry you through the work and in the end you're really happy with the results. It is a lot of fun if you can handle the demands, and it sounds like you've got a couple very demanding parents. That hitting the lid to get your attention is a hoot. I'm sure I've never heard that one before.
Ya know Keith, be glad that you have been so helpful with this whole process because I am the moderator of this section. lol
It was hilarious when he hit the lid. I was watching the whole thing. He saw me looking at him but apparently I was not fast enough with more food so he let me know on no uncertain terms what he wanted. "Thump", then stared at me some more. He looked like this ----> :angry:

Second Hand Pat
07-29-2012, 12:03 AM
Oh man grumpy pants

Keith Perkins
07-29-2012, 12:09 AM
Guess I better behave, given your location is Earth I don't think I want to be moderated off of it. :)

I didn't realize until I went back and looked that it's been eight days since the eggs were laid. Eight days is a long time for the parents to still be successfully attaching them back to anything, odd.

BobDaniel
07-29-2012, 12:15 AM
If anyone needs a quick hatchery, try using a empty Saline bag for IV. You'll need to cut a slit along one side of the bag at the top...rinse it out good and you should be good to go. A clear 2 liter soda bottle will work, too. You'll have to use a 1/4 inch tube to areate the BS eggs.

Sometime a hatch will fail. Have a spare working during these early days. I also fed the artemia with spirlina. This enhances the nutritional value.

I am enjoying this thread.

DiscusDrew
07-29-2012, 12:29 AM
Did you only read the first page or something?....

Keith Perkins
07-29-2012, 12:34 AM
Did you only read the first page or something?....

Yes I did, lol. Well actually I only looked at the date of the first post with the picture of the eggs. 5 days sounds a lot more normal. It must be time for lights out.

Orange Crush
07-29-2012, 12:39 AM
Guess I better behave, given your location is Earth I don't think I want to be moderated off of it. :)

I didn't realize until I went back and looked that it's been eight days since the eggs were laid. Eight days is a long time for the parents to still be successfully attaching them back to anything, odd.
I here Mars is nice.

DiscusDrew
07-29-2012, 02:24 AM
I was referring to bobDaniel Keith sorry I guess I should have quoted.

Orange Crush
07-29-2012, 03:05 PM
They are now all attatched!
Last night the discus took the wrigglers off the pot and put them in the corner of the tank. So, I removed the plant and lowered the water level. when i got up this morning all were on mom except one who was attatched to the cheese cloth covering the filter.

Orange Crush
07-29-2012, 06:09 PM
Sorry for the horrible photography. Lol
I count at least 30 attatched but they dont show up in the pictures so well. Camera phone with bad picture taking skills.....anyways here are the babies. Day 1.5

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Keith Perkins
07-29-2012, 08:25 PM
I here Mars is nice. :(

Yup, those look like attached babies. Oh the fun. Are you reviewing those bbs threads? :)

Keith Perkins
07-29-2012, 08:26 PM
I was referring to bobDaniel Keith sorry I guess I should have quoted.

It fit me too though, lol.

Orange Crush
07-29-2012, 08:35 PM
:(

Yup, those look like attached babies. Oh the fun. Are you reviewing those bbs threads? :)
Yes but I saw that some feed bbs 2 Xs a day and some up to 6 so I am a little confused on that. Also, how much to feed each time.
I've figured out how to set up the bbs hatchery though. Will do a practice run Tuesday on hatching then start feeding them on Thursday since they attatched last night, that would be day 5. Sound right?

Keith Perkins
07-29-2012, 08:50 PM
I'm currently rotating 3 bottles. I'm making bbs every morning and when I get home from work. The next day I feed half to two thirds of the morning batch and my wife empties it at lunch time. I also make another batch. Come home at supper and feed the second bottle again a half to two thirds, then feed again an hour or so before lights out. Also make another bottle. You can do two big feeding too, just depends on your preference and schedule. Some swear by only two feedings a day, I like them getting use to eating all day.

Orange Crush
07-29-2012, 09:02 PM
I'm currently rotating 3 bottles. I'm making bbs every morning and when I get home from work. The next day I feed half to two thirds of the morning batch and my wife empties it at lunch time. I also make another batch. Come home at supper and feed the second bottle again a half to two thirds, then feed again an hour or so before lights out. Also make another bottle. You can do two big feeding too, just depends on your preference and schedule. Some swear by only two feedings a day, I like them getting use to eating all day.
How much do you put in one bottle? 1 g/liter?

Keith Perkins
07-29-2012, 09:19 PM
I'm hatching about a teaspoon in each 2 liter bottle that is about 2/3rds full, but I'm also feeding two batches. You should be able to do a 1/2 teaspoon. You can do more and freeze a few encase you have a batch go bad. They usually happens when your air cuts off for some reason, like the line gets clogged with salt.

Orange Crush
07-29-2012, 09:27 PM
I'm hatching about a teaspoon in each 2 liter bottle that is about 2/3rds full, but I'm also feeding two batches. You should be able to do a 1/2 teaspoon. You can do more and freeze a few encase you have a batch go bad. They usually happens when your air cuts off for some reason, like the line gets clogged with salt.
Thanks Keith, you have been very helpful! I will not banish you to Mars. ;)

Keith Perkins
07-29-2012, 09:31 PM
Good, cuz Elton said it's cold as hell.

I had to go to brine shrimp directs website to figure out what size spoon they send with their eggs. It's a half teaspoon. I use two spoons full at night and two and a half in the morning. In other words I feed the heaviest at the first feeding of the day. I give them a big start each day.

Orange Crush
07-30-2012, 04:37 PM
I am contemplating entering the SD Challange but I am a little hesitant because this is my 1st time raising discus.
What do you all think?

Second Hand Pat
07-30-2012, 07:03 PM
OC, do it. You are not the only one :) It will be fun and give you a completely different aspect on your fish.

xxbenjamminxx
07-30-2012, 07:09 PM
Why not. It would be fun and prob learn a bunch along the way.

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Orange Crush
08-01-2012, 03:22 PM
They are getting bigger!
I set up bbs hatchery last night, we'll see how that goes.
Latest pictures. I count at least 20 fry but they are so active now it is hard to keep track.
pH 7, ammonia 0, nitrIte 0, nitrate <5, TDS 84, 70% water change 2Xs daily. I feed tetra bits, misis shrimp, fdbw, prime reef flakes, bh flakes (I normally would feed actual bh mix but I figured it was too messy for fry tank).

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DiscusDrew
08-01-2012, 04:10 PM
A lot of breeders feed BH mix early because the fry tend to go for it when feeding the parents, and it is a great food source as long as your willing to put in the extra mile for your fry, as in water changes and frequent tank cleanings. Your already keeping up on that, so why not? I pretty much have the same schedule as Kieth, and my BBS set-up is almost the same as well. I posted a video with it in it last night in my contest log. I prefer the 6x per day feedings if I can manage it, if the work schedule is heavy though sometimes I have to do two HUGE feeding instead, but then I have to make sure I spend the extra time making sure theres not leftovers sitting in the tank. I think that takes priority over everything. Perfect water quality I mean. Im so proud of you Holly and your pair. You dont know what a blessing it is to have them doing so well so quickly, this stuff usually takes quite some time.

Orange Crush
08-01-2012, 10:23 PM
A lot of breeders feed BH mix early because the fry tend to go for it when feeding the parents.....Im so proud of you Holly and your pair. You dont know what a blessing it is to have them doing so well so quickly, this stuff usually takes quite some time.
Thanks Drew! :)

Keith Perkins
08-01-2012, 10:35 PM
I always try to keep my fry with the parents for a month so it's super easy to convert them to adult food. I feed primarily beefheart seafood mix and suddenly one day the fry just start picking at the heart. Up until that point the parents clean up the heart so the water quality stays better than feeding heart to just fry in a tank by themselves when they aren't sure about it yet. Of course I'm not trying to pump out fry in quantity either, so I can afford to leave the parents with the fry that long.

Orange Crush
08-02-2012, 03:37 PM
Okay, so I fed them bbs that I hatched and they do not seem interested yet.
So, how do I keep the water clean with bbs swimming everywhere?
How often do I have to clean the sponge filter?
Can I take the cheesecloth off the filter yet?
Thanks!

Keith Perkins
08-02-2012, 05:04 PM
Okay, so I fed them bbs that I hatched and they do not seem interested yet.

It takes a few feedings before they catch on, extremely normal.


So, how do I keep the water clean with bbs swimming everywhere?

The live bbs aren't a problem, it's the ones that die and go to the bottom you want to get cleaned up.


How often do I have to clean the sponge filter?

I clean mine every couple of days, others do it daily.


Can I take the cheesecloth off the filter yet?

If the fry have figured out the parents are the food source you can probably remove it if you want. As the fry catch on to the bbs concept some will figure out there are a bunch on the sponge filter and you'll see them feeding off it.

Orange Crush
08-03-2012, 03:04 PM
Took off the cheesecloth last night. When I got up this morning all was great. Babies are still attatched to mom. Just wish they would get interested in the bbs. (I'm sure mom and dad does too. lol).

Bill63SG
08-03-2012, 04:33 PM
I use a turkey baster,and squirt them above and down the sides of the adults.You''l see the fry kinda"pop" off the parent when they're eating.

shoveltrash
08-04-2012, 05:50 AM
Holly catching up here - firstoff I want to say *well done* :D
I'm very impressed!!! the advice & info on this thread is fantastic too. kudos to Keith & Drew in particular :thumbsup:
I particularly like this:

Okay so, some funny observations....
1) I can no longer put my hand in the tank while cleaning or they will bite me. I have been placed on notice.
2) When mom is hungry she swims away from the wrigglers and over to the front of the tank and stares at me, so I give her food. She is a pig and eats it all while dad guards the wrigglers. So when she is done dad swims up to front of tank and then jumps up hitting the top of the plastic lid to get my attention for more food. Message received!
3) Dad picks up a wriggler that tried to swim away and then saw a piece of food and put that in his mouth as well. I though well that is one less wriggler but then he swam back to the pot and spit the wriggler out but not the piece of food. Amazing.
4) Some of the wrigglers are trying to attatch to the parents but if the parents see it they grab them and spit them back onto the pot. However, some slip by and hang onto the parent while the parent frantically swims around trying to find it. unfortunatly the other discus will see it and put it back onto the pot. Reminds me of the looney tunes.
5) This morning the wrigglers were on the leaves and mom decided to move them back to the rim of the pot. She grabs several spits them out and goes back to the leaves for another batch. In the meantime dad sees them on the pot and thinks they should be on the leaves so he grabs several from the pot and spits them back onto the leaves. This continued for a little while but, in the end mom got her way and they were all on the pot. Reminds me of Laurel and Hardy.
heck, your experience almost makes me want to try my hand at breeding, almost. LOL!
best of luck - I'll be following along with interest!
(and good luck too with the house hunt :) )

Orange Crush
08-05-2012, 04:18 AM
kudos to Keith & Drew in particular :thumbsup:
+1
I do not think that I would be as sucessful at this if it were not for the both of them. :)

Orange Crush
08-05-2012, 09:13 PM
Latest pictures. I really wish I could take better ones.
Just fed them bbs so not all are with mom.

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Altum Nut
08-05-2012, 09:53 PM
Thank goodness Holly the photos are sideways. I honestly thought mom or pops was lying on the tank bottom.
Don't do that again...my heart skipped a beat.
Keep up the good work OC.

...Ralph

Keith Perkins
08-05-2012, 10:08 PM
And with the quality of the pictures, the fish might have been dead for some time. :)

Orange Crush
08-06-2012, 02:59 AM
Haha guys. I was having a hard time geting a good shot so I turned my phone sideways but I dont know how to correct it with tapatalk app.
However, they are all eating bbs now and have big pink bellies.
Can they eat too much? Because they are eating non-stop!

Keith Perkins
08-06-2012, 02:38 PM
I've never had a problem with them eating too much, but Al told me he had a problem with it one time so I'm not going to say it isn't possible. I don't recall what happened, but I think they got bound up and he lost some because of it. That's the only time I've heard of it being a problem, so I think it's fairly rare.

Orange Crush
08-06-2012, 05:02 PM
They are big enough now that I can see their poop! :D

Bill63SG
08-06-2012, 05:39 PM
They are big enough now that I can see their poop! :DSad day when we're excited by discus poop.

Orange Crush
08-07-2012, 09:23 PM
Updated pictures of some of the fry eating bbs

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Keith Perkins
08-07-2012, 11:17 PM
Have you been working on your picture taking? This ones pretty clear and the right direction too...I think. ;)

Orange Crush
08-08-2012, 01:16 AM
Have you been working on your picture taking? This ones pretty clear and the right direction too...I think. ;)
Sometimes I just get lucky. The sad thing is I take about a dozen pics to have one be passable. Thank goodness I no longer use a camera with film or poloroid - that would be costing me a lot of $$$

shawnhu
08-08-2012, 02:41 AM
So your name is Holly, congrats on the successful fry first time around!

CrazyAngels
08-08-2012, 11:54 AM
Wow is all I can say. I had not been on for a while and finally got to read the entire thread.. I'm so exited for you, what a pair you have there, awesome parenting skills for their first spawn.. the little guys are looking super good. keep up the great job you are doing..

Orange Crush
08-08-2012, 02:04 PM
Wow is all I can say. I had not been on for a while and finally got to read the entire thread.. I'm so exited for you, what a pair you have there, awesome parenting skills for their first spawn.. the little guys are looking super good. keep up the great job you are doing..
Thanks!

Orange Crush
08-08-2012, 04:07 PM
LITTLE MONSTERS


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Orange Crush
08-09-2012, 05:03 PM
temp 83
pH 7
ammonia 0
nitrIte 0
nitrate <5
TDS 86
80% water change 2Xs daily every day except about once a week I do 1 wc a day
Feeding BBS that I hatched 2-3 times per day to the fry

Orange Crush
08-11-2012, 09:43 PM
A couple of pics from yesterday. I swear they almost double in size every day or so....

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JenTN
08-11-2012, 10:05 PM
It's great, isn't it? :D

Orange Crush
08-13-2012, 04:42 PM
My husband is shocked at how big they have become in just the 2 weeks since they became free swimmers. I kinda am too.

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Second Hand Pat
08-13-2012, 05:17 PM
They are doing very well, good job OC.

Orange Crush
08-17-2012, 06:23 PM
Pictures I took this afternoon. It is getting more difficult to get all of them in the same photo since they are doing their own thing so often instead of just staying close to the parents.
Still doing at least one 90% wc daily and feeding bbs 2-3 times a day.

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Orange Crush
08-21-2012, 02:17 PM
So, I took dad out a couple of days ago. His skin was getting very dry/rough looking (see pics in post #118 - the blue ss/scorpion).
The fry are now 23 days old and when I feed mom FDBW they are eating it too. Should I stop with the BBS and just feed them what the mom eats now or keep feeding the BBS?

Keith Perkins
08-21-2012, 02:23 PM
Personally I let the fry tell me when to quit feeding bbs. When they show more interest in FDBW, flake, and heart than they do bbs I start cutting back on how much I'm making and wean them off of it. Just what I do.

Orange Crush
08-21-2012, 05:34 PM
Pics from today....the fry are all over the tank. Don't they know I am trying to take their picture? Lol
Did I mention that they are only 23 days old? They are getting big. And no, I do not give them any steroids.

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Orange Crush
09-06-2012, 03:46 AM
So my husband and I are going away for the weekend (wedding anniversary) and I wanted to know if I should feed the fry while we are away even though they will not get any water changes or if they will be better off with no food. They are about 6 weeks old now and close to 1.5" TL each.
Thanks! :)

Bill63SG
09-06-2012, 10:14 AM
I belive without wcs and only the weekend,better not to feed.And try to do a wc as close to when you are leaving as posible.I'll be in the same situation in October.

Keith Perkins
09-06-2012, 10:29 AM
I agree with Bill, you're better off with hungry fish than with fish in dirty water.

Eddie
09-06-2012, 01:21 PM
Great looking pups!

Orange Crush
09-06-2012, 03:51 PM
I belive without wcs and only the weekend,better not to feed.And try to do a wc as close to when you are leaving as posible.I'll be in the same situation in October.


I agree with Bill, you're better off with hungry fish than with fish in dirty water.
Will do fellas, thanks!


Great looking pups!
Thanks Eddie, I really need to update the pictures since the last one taken was about 2 weeks ago and they are twice that size now. I have just been super busy with paperwork etc. for the house and water changes, lol. :D

Orange Crush
09-06-2012, 04:09 PM
Pics from today. They are almost 6 weeks old now....

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Orange Crush
10-08-2012, 06:48 PM
Sorry I have not updated this thread in a while but I have been super busy with school, moving etc.
Anyways, here are pics of the little buggers I took today.....
76030760317603276033
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Eddie
10-08-2012, 08:38 PM
They look great!

Keith Perkins
10-08-2012, 08:42 PM
Very nice shape on them. Glad you're still among the living, it's been a while.

Orange Crush
10-09-2012, 01:50 AM
They look great!
Thanks! Lots of good quality food and lots of water changes. I have not lost one of them since the first several days of free swimming :)

Very nice shape on them. Glad you're still among the living, it's been a while.
Thanks Keith. I was worried that I would lose some during the moving process but they did great. Unfortunatly, one of my pairs had fry that went free swimming the day we had to move the discus, those did not make it.

Yes, I am among the living but life has been super busy.

Trier20
10-09-2012, 02:49 AM
Looking good Holly!

Orange Crush
10-09-2012, 03:40 AM
Looking good Holly!
Thanks Brandon :)

Eddie
10-09-2012, 08:50 AM
Thanks! Lots of good quality food and lots of water changes. I have not lost one of them since the first several days of free swimming :)
.

Oh really, it must be because you have a totally different water source from everyone else in the world. LOL

Poco
10-09-2012, 08:52 AM
They are looking great nice shape too!

Most important question have all the fish settled in? :D And how about you?

Orange Crush
10-09-2012, 04:22 PM
They are looking great nice shape too!

Most important question have all the fish settled in? :D And how about you?
Thanks! Discus are settled in but no one else is. Now you see what my priorities are. lol

Orange Crush
10-09-2012, 04:31 PM
Oh really, it must be because you have a totally different water source from everyone else in the world. LOL
Hahaha. I just believe in the power of doing water changes. From what I have been reading on here, many of those that are dealing with problems growing out their juvies are not doing enough water changes or not aging the water which results in water quality issues like ammonia, microbubbles, pH swings etc. It's not rocket science but some try and make it out to be. lol

Eddie
10-09-2012, 06:12 PM
Hahaha. I just believe in the power of doing water changes. From what I have been reading on here, many of those that are dealing with problems growing out their juvies are not doing enough water changes or not aging the water which results in water quality issues like ammonia, microbubbles, pH swings etc. It's not rocket science but some try and make it out to be. lol

lol, so true!