discuspaul
07-21-2012, 10:30 PM
I'm posting this thread in response to a forum member's suggestion that it would be of significant interest and help to many newcomers to discus-keeping to gain some understanding of the species of fish that are well compatible with discus, and generally suited to the higher discus temps, as well as to have a grounding on suggested types of plants that would do well in a discus tank environment.
Here's my take on this topic:
- Firstly, I feel it's important to suggest, if not strongly recommend, that newbies to discus not consider jumping right into discus-keeping in a planted community-type set-up from the get-go. I believe the right approach for those starting off with discus is to do so in a bare-bottom tank, or at most, in a tank with nothing more than a thin layer of sand, and perhaps a piece of driftwood &/or a potted plant or two.
It's best first to get comfortable keeping discus, learning their needs, traits & behaviors over a period of a few months before proceeding to a planted community tank set-up, even if one is already well-experienced in maintaining a planted tank.
- Secondly, and just as important, is to point out that there are many different combinations, possibilities, opinions and experiences regarding the types of fish species that generally get along well with discus, and the range of plants that one may suggest as being suited to be healthily grown and maintained in the higher temps needed for discus.
So it follows of course that there will be many different views ,thoughts, and opinions on this, depending on experience levels, and my commentary below is based primarily on my own experiences over many years, and those of other experienced discus-keepers that I am familiar with. The entire subject can therefore be a venue for open and healthy discussion on many fronts. Please keep this in mind.
OK - Let's get started with a listing of suitable discus tank-mates, "dither fish" as they're called, this in no particular order:
I'd like to start by pointing out that discus are a relatively peaceful (as regards their behavior toward other fish species, not necessarily amongst themselves), slow-moving and graceful breed of fish, which are easily startled, and potentially harmfully stressed by very active, rapidly-moving fish, as well as by some species of aggressive ( usually larger) fish which may out-compete them for food. These types of fish are therefore to be avoided. I'll provide some examples of these types of fish below.
Many other fish, while perhaps quite compatible with discus, cannot long deal with the higher discus temps, and soon perish, or have an abnormally shorter life span than normal. Mature neon tetras are an example of this. I say mature, because if they were small young neons, they'd probably become discus' 'lunch' long before they were done in by the higher temp.
One further small note - as a beneficial concession to both dither fish and plants, I'd suggest keeping the tank at no higher than 82-83 F, which would be just fine for discus.
- Good tank-mates:
Tetras: Many strains are just fine, including Cardinals, Rummy-Noses, Lemons, Black neons, Glow-lights, Head & tail lights, Bleeding hearts, Bloodfins, Pristellas, and others. Exception being Serpaes, which could be nippers.
Bottom-dwellers: Almost all strains of Corydoras, with the possible exception of Pandas, which I have found to be more delicate and not thrive in a discus tank.
Others: German Blue or Bolivian Rams, several strains of Rasboras, including Harlequin, Copper & others. Hatchet Fish. Some Gouramis, such as Dwarf or Pearl, but not larger Gouramis, which tend to be aggressive and may out-compete discus for food. Bristle-Nose Plecos, but not many other Plecos which can grow quite large and may take a liking to discus' slime coats as part of their diet.
I've never kept these with discus, but other experienced discus-keepers tell me they have successfully kept the following fish with discus: Killifish, Kribensis, a Betta, livebearers such as Guppies, Platies, and Swordtails. Kuhli loaches, Rays, and some more peaceful Barbs such as Rosy, Cherry, Odessa. Others have kept Angels with Discus, but this is something to be careful with, depending on the size of the Angels vs. the size of the Discus, and whether or not the Angels are wild-caught rather than domestic-raised. Some Angels, particularly wild-caught, may harbor harmful pathogens they are resistant to, but the discus are not.
Many discus-keepers have Otocinclus or Siamese Algae Eaters with discus, and I have done so too, but I found that on occasion, when these species got older and lazier and began ignoring algae, some took a liking to discus' slime coats, as some Plecos may do.
- Not good tank-mates:
Tank-mates to avoid include, many, if not most, other Cichlids (besides Rams, and perhaps Angels), because they are either extremely messy and disruptive, or get too large, or are too aggressive, among other factors.
Others to avoid are the very active, rapidly-moving fish (as mentioned earlier). Examples of some of these species are: Clown Loaches, Rainbows, Red-Tailed Sharks, Zebras/Danios. Many Barbs are also fast-movers, aggessive, or nippers, or have all of these traits.
A chuckle here: I had one long-time, experienced discus-keeper tell me he has kept many species of fish with discus over the years without a hint of problems, including for example, mature Tiger Barbs, Jack Dempseys, and Firemouths. This same person told me he has kept almost all varieties of the more common plants in his discus tanks without ever having a single one melt. Needless to say, I took this all in with a grain of salt, even though I'm generally a very positive person.
I haven't discussed numbers of dither fish to be appropriately kept with discus, because there are so many other factors and variables to be taken into account, such as size of tank, number of discus being kept in the tank, how many other species you'd like to keep together with your discus, etc.
And there are likely several other species of fish that I haven't mentioned, but if any of you have a specific type you want to know about, let me know & I'll try to give you a reading on their suitability.
Now, let's get on to suitable plants for that community tank of yours:
First though, I'd like to mention that many discus-keepers use pool filter sand as their substrate of choice, mainly because of it's ease of keeping clean, and it's natural good looks. If you're planning on doing so, I recommend you use root tab ferts in the sand for reasonably good plant growth.
And as well, I'm a great believer in keeping things simple in a discus tank (that's one of my "6 Cardinal Rules" for discus newbies to follow), so my suggestion is to avoid, at least at first, complicating matters by going high-tech and using CO2 along with a strict fertilizing regime, which can be problematic, result in pH swings, and/or be a cause for other undesirable occurences.
Plants that seem to generally do very well in the higher discus temps include:
- All types of Anubias and Java Ferns, to be attached to driftwood or other hardscape (e.g. rocks).
- Rooted plants:
All types of Echinodorus plants (Swords); most types of Cryptocorynes; Giant Hair Grasses, Jumbo Vallisneria, or Sagittarius, all Hygrophilas; Ludwigias; Rotalas; Bacopas; all Nymphaeas; Crinums; Gymnocoronis; Nesaeas. There are others as well.
I believe it's pertinent to note here that, on occasion, a few of these varieties of plants may fail to acclimate properly to the higher temp, and not do well for no apparent reason, but the poor result could be a factor of water column fertilizing regime, or lack thereof, lighting intensity and periods, use of Excel, the list goes on.
There may be other occasions too, where, e.g. Crypts (and other plants too) may not do well at first, and begin to wilt or 'melt' for a time, then bounce right back with vigor a few weeks later. Some plants may take several weeks to properly acclimate to the over 80F temp, but will eventually begin to thrive.
In my experience, some plants that may possibly do well, but seem to pose a challenge most of the time, are Aponogetons, Corkscrew Vals, some Mosses, and most carpet plants. (And the latter are not recommended in view of the difficulty in keeping the tank squeaky clean with any plant carpeting.)
This is long enough - so I'll close for now.
Hope this at least helps to get you started when you decide to do a planted community discus tank.
Here's my take on this topic:
- Firstly, I feel it's important to suggest, if not strongly recommend, that newbies to discus not consider jumping right into discus-keeping in a planted community-type set-up from the get-go. I believe the right approach for those starting off with discus is to do so in a bare-bottom tank, or at most, in a tank with nothing more than a thin layer of sand, and perhaps a piece of driftwood &/or a potted plant or two.
It's best first to get comfortable keeping discus, learning their needs, traits & behaviors over a period of a few months before proceeding to a planted community tank set-up, even if one is already well-experienced in maintaining a planted tank.
- Secondly, and just as important, is to point out that there are many different combinations, possibilities, opinions and experiences regarding the types of fish species that generally get along well with discus, and the range of plants that one may suggest as being suited to be healthily grown and maintained in the higher temps needed for discus.
So it follows of course that there will be many different views ,thoughts, and opinions on this, depending on experience levels, and my commentary below is based primarily on my own experiences over many years, and those of other experienced discus-keepers that I am familiar with. The entire subject can therefore be a venue for open and healthy discussion on many fronts. Please keep this in mind.
OK - Let's get started with a listing of suitable discus tank-mates, "dither fish" as they're called, this in no particular order:
I'd like to start by pointing out that discus are a relatively peaceful (as regards their behavior toward other fish species, not necessarily amongst themselves), slow-moving and graceful breed of fish, which are easily startled, and potentially harmfully stressed by very active, rapidly-moving fish, as well as by some species of aggressive ( usually larger) fish which may out-compete them for food. These types of fish are therefore to be avoided. I'll provide some examples of these types of fish below.
Many other fish, while perhaps quite compatible with discus, cannot long deal with the higher discus temps, and soon perish, or have an abnormally shorter life span than normal. Mature neon tetras are an example of this. I say mature, because if they were small young neons, they'd probably become discus' 'lunch' long before they were done in by the higher temp.
One further small note - as a beneficial concession to both dither fish and plants, I'd suggest keeping the tank at no higher than 82-83 F, which would be just fine for discus.
- Good tank-mates:
Tetras: Many strains are just fine, including Cardinals, Rummy-Noses, Lemons, Black neons, Glow-lights, Head & tail lights, Bleeding hearts, Bloodfins, Pristellas, and others. Exception being Serpaes, which could be nippers.
Bottom-dwellers: Almost all strains of Corydoras, with the possible exception of Pandas, which I have found to be more delicate and not thrive in a discus tank.
Others: German Blue or Bolivian Rams, several strains of Rasboras, including Harlequin, Copper & others. Hatchet Fish. Some Gouramis, such as Dwarf or Pearl, but not larger Gouramis, which tend to be aggressive and may out-compete discus for food. Bristle-Nose Plecos, but not many other Plecos which can grow quite large and may take a liking to discus' slime coats as part of their diet.
I've never kept these with discus, but other experienced discus-keepers tell me they have successfully kept the following fish with discus: Killifish, Kribensis, a Betta, livebearers such as Guppies, Platies, and Swordtails. Kuhli loaches, Rays, and some more peaceful Barbs such as Rosy, Cherry, Odessa. Others have kept Angels with Discus, but this is something to be careful with, depending on the size of the Angels vs. the size of the Discus, and whether or not the Angels are wild-caught rather than domestic-raised. Some Angels, particularly wild-caught, may harbor harmful pathogens they are resistant to, but the discus are not.
Many discus-keepers have Otocinclus or Siamese Algae Eaters with discus, and I have done so too, but I found that on occasion, when these species got older and lazier and began ignoring algae, some took a liking to discus' slime coats, as some Plecos may do.
- Not good tank-mates:
Tank-mates to avoid include, many, if not most, other Cichlids (besides Rams, and perhaps Angels), because they are either extremely messy and disruptive, or get too large, or are too aggressive, among other factors.
Others to avoid are the very active, rapidly-moving fish (as mentioned earlier). Examples of some of these species are: Clown Loaches, Rainbows, Red-Tailed Sharks, Zebras/Danios. Many Barbs are also fast-movers, aggessive, or nippers, or have all of these traits.
A chuckle here: I had one long-time, experienced discus-keeper tell me he has kept many species of fish with discus over the years without a hint of problems, including for example, mature Tiger Barbs, Jack Dempseys, and Firemouths. This same person told me he has kept almost all varieties of the more common plants in his discus tanks without ever having a single one melt. Needless to say, I took this all in with a grain of salt, even though I'm generally a very positive person.
I haven't discussed numbers of dither fish to be appropriately kept with discus, because there are so many other factors and variables to be taken into account, such as size of tank, number of discus being kept in the tank, how many other species you'd like to keep together with your discus, etc.
And there are likely several other species of fish that I haven't mentioned, but if any of you have a specific type you want to know about, let me know & I'll try to give you a reading on their suitability.
Now, let's get on to suitable plants for that community tank of yours:
First though, I'd like to mention that many discus-keepers use pool filter sand as their substrate of choice, mainly because of it's ease of keeping clean, and it's natural good looks. If you're planning on doing so, I recommend you use root tab ferts in the sand for reasonably good plant growth.
And as well, I'm a great believer in keeping things simple in a discus tank (that's one of my "6 Cardinal Rules" for discus newbies to follow), so my suggestion is to avoid, at least at first, complicating matters by going high-tech and using CO2 along with a strict fertilizing regime, which can be problematic, result in pH swings, and/or be a cause for other undesirable occurences.
Plants that seem to generally do very well in the higher discus temps include:
- All types of Anubias and Java Ferns, to be attached to driftwood or other hardscape (e.g. rocks).
- Rooted plants:
All types of Echinodorus plants (Swords); most types of Cryptocorynes; Giant Hair Grasses, Jumbo Vallisneria, or Sagittarius, all Hygrophilas; Ludwigias; Rotalas; Bacopas; all Nymphaeas; Crinums; Gymnocoronis; Nesaeas. There are others as well.
I believe it's pertinent to note here that, on occasion, a few of these varieties of plants may fail to acclimate properly to the higher temp, and not do well for no apparent reason, but the poor result could be a factor of water column fertilizing regime, or lack thereof, lighting intensity and periods, use of Excel, the list goes on.
There may be other occasions too, where, e.g. Crypts (and other plants too) may not do well at first, and begin to wilt or 'melt' for a time, then bounce right back with vigor a few weeks later. Some plants may take several weeks to properly acclimate to the over 80F temp, but will eventually begin to thrive.
In my experience, some plants that may possibly do well, but seem to pose a challenge most of the time, are Aponogetons, Corkscrew Vals, some Mosses, and most carpet plants. (And the latter are not recommended in view of the difficulty in keeping the tank squeaky clean with any plant carpeting.)
This is long enough - so I'll close for now.
Hope this at least helps to get you started when you decide to do a planted community discus tank.