Old broken eheim 2233 (ecco series)-> can I use it a prefilter/subfilter?

[shrimper]

Hi I have a very very old old eheim 2233 (ecco series) that i want to try as a prefilter/subfilter?

The oring seal is still good. I have searched for prefilter etc, but all point to prefilters that are designed like an eheim classic, inlet from bottom and outlet from top.

Since the 2233 (ecco series) both the in and out connectors are on top, does this pose a problem?

I will be using another ecco as the "powered" cannister

thank you

[lipadj46]

yes you can do that.

[DiscusDrew]

I see no issues, potentially more pressure on the actual running system because of the increased resistance on the inlet, but this could be controlled to some degree by how much media is in your "prefilter", and also by ensuring it stays clean, clogs could be disastrous.

[TheDrake]

For me, I loathe the cost of canister filters, especially the dumb ones that put the media you need to check most on the bottom :p I much prefer to buy an appropriately sized "tupperware-type" container, throw on a couple cheap bulkhead fittings in a manner that makes it best functioning and/or easiest servicing for my needs. I can make a LOT of nice DIY canisters for the cost of ONE brand name money-sucker. Sorry to have not addressed your specific question, but maybe my comments will get you and others thinking along more creative and thrifty lines...
cheers

[TheDrake]

forgot to mention, although it's probably obvious, you need to supply your own pump. powerheads are cheap and also cheap/easy to replace if when the pump fails. not so much on the big green beasts...

[DiscusDrew]

That's called a sump... Many of us use them, just not necessarily with tupperware haha. There's cheap and then there's thrifty, I feel there's a big difference. If your going to build a sump it costs minimally more for you to use an old small tank or even by a new one (depending on what you need) and make it yourself out of plexiglas. Sumps are not always practical or possible and thus the use of a compact canister. Both are great, it just depends on what abilities you have given your setup.

[DiscusDrew]

The only problem I have with DYI sumps is when people go too cheap. Like using pot scrubbers which can eventually give off harmful toxins in a discus tank that has very warm often acidic water. If your raising discus seriously.... Then your spending a good amount on fish, it only makes sense to have the equipment that will properly maintain the aquarium. I'm not saying you have to buy ridiculously expensive stuff always, i'm just saying there is a happy balance and there's cutting corners on things which are inconsequential, and then there's cutting corners that are to the detriment of your fish.... Be sure to do the former.

[TheDrake]

is it technically a sump b/c the pump is in the tank instead of the canister? ok. I usually think of a sump as a big open tank/tub that you can get your hands into. I'm talking about a nice sealed tupper canister, same compact size or shape or whatever as the green beasts, same hoses coming and going, just much less expensive and much easier to service, with of course the pump in the tank. I suppose you can put the pump in the bottom of the canister if you don't want to see the little powerhead in your tank, but there goes much of the serviceability you just created for yourself. to each their own, spice of life, it's all good.

[shrimper]

thanks everyone I will try it.

:) I wouldn't buy a new ecco to use as a prefilter lol.

As for clogging, I dont think that would be an issue as it will only have noodles and coarse filter.

But to be absolutely clear, I want to fully comprehend the meaning of clogged.

Do we mean that it is so full of gunk that no water is coming out of the outlet?

[lipadj46]

High end Japanese shrimp breeders do this all the time for extra bio. They string multiple canisters together and only run one. I do believe you put the running canister last and take the impellers out of the non running canisters.

[shrimper]

High end Japanese shrimp breeders do this all the time for extra bio. They string multiple canisters together and only run one. I do believe you put the running canister last and take the impellers out of the non running canisters.

That is what i am going to do...

I even spent 15minutes drawing a diagram in paint lol but I cant link it yet as i don't have 10 post... but I will as soon as I hit the 10 post milestone :)

[shrimper]

http://i719.photobucket.com/albums/ww196/ipv6ready/Dia.jpg

this what i have done... any comments :)

[TheDrake]

I could be wrong, but I believe that pumps are 'happier' (i.e., they will last longer) when the pulling is easy and the pushing is hard. That's why I like to have my powerhead drawing water in the tank (easy) and pushing through the filter back to the tank (hard). In a typical canister with the pump inside, it's probably 50/50. With 2 canisters in series like you have, the pump is probably happier in the prefilter position where it only has to pull through 1 hose and 1 set of media than in the 2nd filter position where it has to pull through 2 hoses and 2 sets of media. In other words, you might want to switch the order of the powered and non-powered cans in your circuit. Granted, this is more of an issue with more powerful pumps that can really create serious pressure differentials (and phenomena like vapor cavitation), but it certainly can't hurt to switch the order on your cans here. just my $0.02. good luck!

[Trier20]

Drake I understand what you're saying but I think it's going to be the same work on the pump. Gravity will help feed the water through the system as the pump will too. Right?

I think your plans should work so I'd do it. Good luck and keep us updated on how it works.

[TheDrake]

That's a good point Brandon! There are 2 types of resistance that will put wear and tear on your pumps. Hydrostatic pressure from a difference in height (gravity) can be significant and difficult for a pump to overcome. Anyone who has experienced tap pressure that is noticeably less on higher floors knows about that. Getting back to push vs pull, it's why well pumps do better when they are submersible (at the bottom pushing up) vs. a jet-well pump at the top (trying to pull). That said, the gravity effect is easily overcome in recirculating aquarium systems by 'making a siphon loop': simply keep your return hose outlet underwater like your inlet, and your pump will do no more work than if the entire loop were horizontal! Gravity pulling water down the inlet helps to push water back up the outlet, as long as the circuit is closed (return under water). The other type of resistance comes from friction from the pipes/hoses and filter media. That's the one I was talking about previously. The only way to make that easier on your pump is to put your pump on the pushing end (in the tank) vs inline (most canisters) or at the pulling end (I don't think anybody does that). Neat stuff!

[shrimper]

Hi to those interested, though it might be too soon for a full verdict but it is working well for now.

Changes to the diagram

1. No fine wool in the powered canister-> replaced with more bio.
2. I changed the intake to a a stainless steel shrimp fry guard plus added an extra layer of ultra fine netting around it to stop gunk getting in to the Eccos (not in diagram)
3. With the two modification, I think the Eccos in the series will never clog up.

Mechanical filtration is a second Eheim 2213 in the tank with standard intake, this canister only has 2 blue coarse sponges and the rest of the cage filled with filter wool + purigen.

I plan to clean out the 2213 monthly and give it a good wash.

So eventually most of the Bacteria will reside in the Ecco and the 2213 will be purely a mechanical filter.