1x discus juvenile sick, gill exposure on 1 side, what could be ailment?

Hello!

I got a batch of 8x juve discus (2") and 7 of them are fine, but 1, (the runt) appears to have a problem with its gill on the left side, with some of the membrane appearing to be exposed, could this be due to stress, (gets occasionally nipped at by the bigger discus at feeding time) or water quality, or bacterial / viral ?
I have no idea and any help would be greatly appreciated.

Regards,

Steve


Problem

1. Please explain the problems with your fish. When did you notice the problems and did anything unusual happen that you think started them?

- bought group of 8x juvinlee discuss (2") and the 'runt' of the group has a problem with its left gill. seems like part of its gill is exposed, and it is 'breathing' heavily. the rest of the group eats bloodworm happily, but this fish refuses. it will only eat brine, but it does not feed as heartily as its siblings.
-also noticed that it hides from the rest of the group in a log i put in the aquarium on its own sometimes, but it will also school with the other more aggresive fish, especially at feeding times.
-noticed that this runt gets 'nipped at by some of the more aggresive fish at feeding time, or when they are scavanging for food from the floor of the aquarium


2. Symptoms (i.e. turning dark, excess slime, not eating, clamped fins, flashing, darting, clamped gills, white/yellow/green poop, hiding, headstanding or tailstanding, white on tips of fins, rotting or fungus, blisters/white zits on fish, bloated, cloudy eyes, wounds).

- its appeptite is much lower then the other fish, and it has not grown since i bought it (still about 2 inches) [but only been 2 weeks])
- discus siblings are growing and eating with much more gusto
- noticed it was not eating as well as other fish
- definatly gets picked on abit by other fish as the bigger discus chase away anything when they are seeking food (including cory's and plecos)

3. What medications/ treatments have you already tried and what were the results. Include dosage and duration of treatment.

- none

Tank/Water

4. Tank size and ages, numbers and sizes of fish.

- 80 gallon, 60 " 18" 18"
- 6 pleco
-6 corys
- 12 amano shrimp
- whole tank has been running for about 2 months now

5. Water change regime (What percentage and how often).

- daily 30-50%, but am changing that to 2x per day and 50%

6. How long has tank been running? Is it bare bottom? If you have substrate, what type and how deep is it?

-planted
- depth of substrate about 3-4"

7. Do you age your water? If you do for how long and what is the ph swing.

-due to apartment restrictions i have to pump water from tap directly into tank, but dosing a dechlorinator carefully to minimize exposusre to chlorine (fish hide at other end of tank during water changes) and all filtration is turned off for the 30-45 minutes it takes to do a water change

8. Parameters and water source;

Note: Water Parameters are important in diagnosing problems within a tank. If you don't own test kits for the following information, you can purchase them, test your parameters and post this info as soon as possible.


- temp _____ 86.5

- ph _____ 6.8

- ammonia reading ____ 0--> 0.25

- nitrite reading ____ 0

- nitrate reading ____ 0.50

What type of water or combinations of water sources do you use? If it is an RO/tap/well water mix, please list percentages in the mix.

- well water ____

- municipal water ____ water from the tap (vancouver, BC - has low chlroine and ph 7.0)

- RO water ____


9. Any new fish, plants or inverts added recently.


10. Please tell us what you feed your fish and how often. This can be critical information for solving the problem so be as specific as you can.

- fish are fed 6-8x per day (enough that they can eat in 2-3 mins) of
80% brine and 20% bloodworm
-adding beefheart mix this week



11. Include any pictures or videos you have which shows the symptoms. If you can't add them to this post, please provide a link to them.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/6EWQZZzj1KZvWEpS8

Hi Steve and welcome to Simply. Is the gill problem sometime you noticed over time or did the fish come with the gill issue? I think I see the fish of concern in the video. The edge of gill cover itself appears to be turned outward with the gill material protruding from the gill. I suspect this resulted from either a defect or an injury. I do not have anything specifically to recommend but I do notice that the fish are breathing very hard. Juvie's do breath faster then adult but this seems really fast. Is it possible to add an airstone to the tank?

I am also guessing you are new to discus? I say this due to you trying to raise juvie discus in a planted tank with a deep substrate. You will find that with the heavy feeding juvie discus need to grow well that the substrate is going to trap lots of feed, poop etc which will work against you over time and really affect your water quality. Are you interested in some recommendations to the tank to help with keeping the tank cleaner while keeping the plants?

We are here to assist with any specific problems but also help you be successful with discus over the long haul.
Pat

Hi Steve. I can tell you from my past experience of growing juvie discus. As Pat mentions in his post, you have to heavier and very frequently feeding them with high protein food. I have to tell you the amount of poop coming out from them after each feeding is totally unbelievable. Think about if they got trap in the substrate and decay, it is absolutely disgusting and not good to your discus and the water.

Yes, I may be on the edge of OCD, but bare bottom will make your life easy :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by eugenefish

Hi Steve. I can tell you from my past experience of growing juvie discus. As Pat mentions in his post, you have to heavier and very frequently feeding them with high protein food. I have to tell you the amount of poop coming out from them after each feeding is totally unbelievable. Think about if they got trap in the substrate and decay, it is absolutely disgusting and not good to your discus and the water.

Yes, I may be on the edge of OCD, but bare bottom will make your life easy :)

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Ok wait what know I'm OCD LOLING is that my problem. Jeanne

O

Do you have access to live blackworm at your LFS see if that won't give that little guy a kick in the butt,if you do get them just make sure you give them a good rinse in cold water before feeding

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Second Hand Pat

Hi Steve and welcome to Simply. Is the gill problem sometime you noticed over time or did the fish come with the gill issue? I think I see the fish of concern in the video. The edge of gill cover itself appears to be turned outward with the gill material protruding from the gill. I suspect this resulted from either a defect or an injury. I do not have anything specifically to recommend but I do notice that the fish are breathing very hard. Juvie's do breath faster then adult but this seems really fast. Is it possible to add an airstone to the tank?

I am also guessing you are new to discus? I say this due to you trying to raise juvie discus in a planted tank with a deep substrate. You will find that with the heavy feeding juvie discus need to grow well that the substrate is going to trap lots of feed, poop etc which will work against you over time and really affect your water quality. Are you interested in some recommendations to the tank to help with keeping the tank cleaner while keeping the plants?

We are here to assist with any specific problems but also help you be successful with discus over the long haul.
Pat

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Hello Pat,

Thanks for your information, yes I am new to discus, I hadnt noticed the gill problem when I purchased the fish, but it did occur about a week ago, I have added some drifwood, and that has been providing this fish a refuge place which it hides in.

I know the substrate and planting was proberly a mistake, but its done now. fortunatly I have plenty of time on my hands, so have started 'vacuming' every day to help with the large armount of food and fecus waste.

I was wondering about the 'heavy breathing', but I have a 6" airstone, on the minimum setting, so i have turned this up to its highest setting, which does significantly more water currents within the tank

I would be very happy to hear any recommendations about keeping the fish & plants happy!

I spent quiete a bit of time searching around online, and was not able to find a 'discus juvenile scedule recomendation. i.e what time should they be 'woken up' what time they should be 'put to bed' etc.

the fish were bought at 2" in size and are now proberly close to 2.5" (had them for 2 weeks)

Thanks,

Steve

Dear Eugene,

Thanks for the advice, in hindsight a bare bottom would have been ideal, but I am now committed! Any thoughts or advice on schedule for juvenile fish? i.e how much sleep do they need?

Regards,

Steve

My thoughts are. You can raise young discus in a planted tank, but a whole lot more maintenance will be required. Especially, keeping the substrate clean from debris and getting around the roots can be an issue in itself. Just a lot of work for most who have experience with young discus. Best to have a timer for your lights. I keep my planted tanks on about 9 hours give or take an hour, depending on the plants, lights, ferts and the tank location. The fish will rest when the lights are off for the night.

Just one more thing you may want to vary their diet a bit more the brineshrimp does not have much food value that is something that is generally fed to fry but quickly replaced when the fish can accept bigger high protein food so I don't know that I would give them that more than once a week but instead I would feed FDBW which I think there's some guy here that sells them from time to time or you can get them from California Blackworm who raise their own and I would also feed omega one kelp pellets so they get their green needs

Hi Steve, one thing you could consider is putting the plants in pots and removing the substrate. If this is something you wish to try holler back and we can give you some steps on doing this without harming the fish.
Pat

Hi Steve, if you are planning to turn off the aquarium light at night (which I do too) then I suggest a night light should be kept on in the room so that the discus never go from light to sudden darkness and vice versa.

As for how many hours to have the aquarium light on during the day, it depend on your plants? On my discus tank, I kept my aquarium light on for about 9 hours/day.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Second Hand Pat

Hi Steve, one thing you could consider is putting the plants in pots and removing the substrate. If this is something you wish to try holler back and we can give you some steps on doing this without harming the fish.
Pat

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Dear Pat,

I am one step ahead of you! I potted the plants yesterday, which allows me to get the vacum around the tank. The plan is to vacum daily (after last feeding - to clear up any uneaten debris) and do a 50% water change in the morning when the lights go on.

Any other thoughts are welcomed. I have bought up lots of frozen brine and bloodworm, the juve's seem to have absolutely no interest in any flankes or pellets my petstore recommended. I guess since the fish are only 2" --> 2.5" they might be too little to eat pellets and possible just no interest in flakes at the moment (since bloodworm and brine are higher value meals)

I had planned on making a Beefheart mix this weekend and supplementing their diet, because I am concerned that only feeding them brine and bloodworm is not a 'balanced' diet. However I could be wrong, any thoughts?

Also on a side note, I noticed that the injured fish, has no interest in bloodworms at all, but is very eager to eat smaller pieces of brine. Could it be that the fish sustained an injury whilst feeding on bloodworm and perhaps its has become 'food adverse' (the conditioned behavioral response when an organism gets sick eating a particularly food, which normally stays for life or long term) ? Or is it common for some discus in a group to just 'not like bloodworms' ?

Any feedback and thoughts greatly appreciated.


Regards,

Steve