Adult Fish becoming Emaciated and unusual Poop

DISEASE QUESTIONNAIRE


Problem

1. Please explain the problems with your fish. When did you notice the problems and did anything unusual happen that you think started them?

I have 8 adult Discus in a 90 gallon tank that has been established for 3 years. In the past two-three months, I've noticed that 7 out of 8 fish have lost interest in eating and are becoming emaciated. During this time, I noticed some off-white poop.


2. Symptoms (i.e. turning dark, excess slime, not eating, clamped fins, flashing, darting, clamped gills, white/yellow/green poop, hiding, head standing or tail standing, white on tips of fins, rotting or fungus, blisters/white zits on fish, bloated, cloudy eyes, wounds).

Loss of energy, far less eating and excitement for food, two turks are showing stress bars, white/yellowish poop from at least two fish. Unfortunately, most of the fish are slowly wasting away.

3. What medications/ treatments have you already tried and what were the results. Include dosage and duration of treatment.

In early March, I started a 10 day treatment of Metro, using 1 teaspoon Metro per 55 gallons (I lowered my water level to 55 gallons) twice per day (8-12 hours apart), with daily 70% water changes in between dosing. The water temp was increased to 90 degrees for 14 days during this period.

After the 14 day treatment, I didn't see much improvement in poop, stress bars, or desire for food, and started them on Levamisole (PROHIBIT) on March 31. I increased the water level to 90 gallons and used 1/4 teaspoon per 90 gallons of PROHIBIT for 24 hours, followed by an 80% water change. I followed up with a second treatment of PROHIBIT 7 days later and have been performing daily water changes since.


Tank/Water

4. Tank size and ages, numbers and sizes of fish.

90 gallons with 8 adult discus in an established tank

5. Water change regime (What percentage and how often).

70 percent water change every 3 days

6. How long has tank been running? Is it bare bottom? If you have substrate, what type and how deep is it?

Tank has been running for over 3 years. Bare bottom.

7. Do you age your water? If you do for how long and what is the ph swing.

Water is aged for 2-3 days and I don't know the ph swing time frame. I do not notice any water change related stress on any of my fish with a 24 hours aging time frame.


8. Parameters and water source;

Note: Water Parameters are important in diagnosing problems within a tank. If you don't own test kits for the following information, you can purchase them, test your parameters and post this info as soon as possible.


- temp _____83

- ph _____

- ammonia reading ___0_

- nitrite reading ___0_

- nitrate reading ____less than 15

What type of water or combinations of water sources do you use? If it is an RO/tap/well water mix, please list percentages in the mix.

- well water ____

- municipal water _100%___

- RO water ____


9. Any new fish, plants or inverts added recently.

Not in the past 2+ years.

10. Please tell us what you feed your fish and how often. This can be critical information for solving the problem so be as specific as you can.

Fish are fed beef heart mix, FDB, Al's pellets. All food/waste is removed after an hour of feeding. Fish are fed 3 or 4 times per day.

11. Include any pictures or videos you have which shows the symptoms. If you can't add them to this post, please provide a link to them.

I was finally able to find a microscope and hopefully someone can assist me in identifying what this is and help with a plan of action? I believe the power of the microscope was set at 300X. Sorry in advance for the poor quality as I'm new at both looking into a microscope and taking pictures into a microscope.

Please click the picture to see the video that was taken this am. Sample feces is fresh and the infected fish have gone through a 10 day Metro treatment and 2 Levamisole treatments;

https://live.staticflickr.com/31337/...9e32d8dd_o.jpg

Additional Pictures;

Poop from early March prior to Metro treatment;

https://live.staticflickr.com/7925/4...7d37c5c1_c.jpg

Pictures from this am;

https://live.staticflickr.com/7840/4...017d0d2b_c.jpg

Craig,
Generally when we see all the fish in a tank wasting away it can mean something serious. Cryptobia comes to mind. One thing of note is your dosing of metro was most likely way too low. 1/4 teaspoon per 55 gal... usually its dosed at least at 500 mgs per 10 gals.. 750 mg is also used. 1/4 teaspoon os a pretty inaccurrate way to measure but it generally is only a few hundred mgs.

I would seriously pick one fish and send it to a lab for analysis....one of the NADA speakers..Dr.Smith has a keen interest in discus and cryptobia.

or you could try redosing metro at a higher dose... since you low dosed already I would use 750 mg /10 gal for 10 days..

My first suggestion of a lab is what I would personally do.

hth,
Al

Hi Al,

I really appreciate the quick response. I was off on my administered amount of Metro. I used 1 tsp of Metro for 55 gallons, twice per day(morning and evening), with a huge water change before the second dosing.

I did use 1/4 tsp of Levimasole for 24 hours on both March 22 and March 31.

Does whatever is in the video look familiar?

Craig, Imho........83 is too low, especially if not eating. If it were my tank, I’d be at 86-87 degrees for sure w higher dosed Metro as Al said.

It looks like flagellates and round worms to me, but I'm not good at the microscope either. Sorry I can't help more with identification.

Everyone hates having to ship a live fish to the lab, but in this case it sounds like the best course of action.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by 14Discus

Craig, Imho........83 is too low, especially if not eating. If it were my tank, I’d be at 86-87 degrees for sure w higher dosed Metro as Al said.

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Hi Bill,

I typically run this tank around 82-83 degrees. After the Metro treatment, I lowered the temp to 86 degrees (from 90) with the hope that it would help trigger a stronger appetite. I haven’t seen much of an improved appetite with the fish, whether the temp is at 82 or 86.

Does it look like Capillaria eggs in the video?

I would try extreme heat treatment 96-97 F for 6 days to try to fight a stubborn flaggelate problem if that Is even the case here.
If that doesn't help after a couple of days rest between treatments I would start adding the double dose metro treat , as Al suggested .

Most appreciated Filip,

Dang that’s hot. I will look into seeing if I can get my heater(s) to go that high. Much to consider.

Craig

An additional thought, I have two family members that work at a Veterinary clinic. Should I send a new feces sample for a Vet Tech to look at under a professional microscope? The Tech would have to be instructed in what to look for and what power to use.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by CraigJ

An additional thought, I have two family members that work at a Veterinary clinic. Should I send a new feces sample for a Vet Tech to look at under a professional microscope? The Tech would have to be instructed in what to look for and what power to use.

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Craig, you can try that but if its cryptobia, it most likely will be missed in a fecal sample.. If this was a problem with one fish I would say put it in a hospital tank and try the conventional methods but honestly a tank full of fish that are becoming emaciated is very concerning to me. I would want to rule out worse case scenarios if I had any other fishtanks set up.

I'd strongly suggest getting in touch with DR. Smith
https://www.vetmed.vt.edu/people/bios/smiths.asp

hth,
al

As expected, I had an excellent conversation with Dr. Smith. I plan to ship two fish to him on Tuesday.

Good for you!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by CraigJ

As expected, I had an excellent conversation with Dr. Smith. I plan to ship two fish to him on Tuesday.

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Hope you will keep us posted on this so we can all learn from your experience Craig. Good luck!
Patty