Safely Treating White Spot
Further to my recent question on using Metronazadole I'm struggling with identifying a solution to eradicating the white spot in my show tank and would appreciate some measured guidance. In the 30+ years I've kept discus this is only the third time I encountered Ich with the previous two resulting in heavy losses. As I no longer run a hospital tank any treatment considered will need to take into account the following;
Tank 125g Imperial / 570 Litres lightly planted but not a determining factor, the fish are priority.
RO Water PH 6.7, Temp 28C, N03 10mg/l, P04 0.1mg/l - No Ammonia or Nitrites
Fish 3 Discus (1 large, 2 juvenile), 3 large Clown Loaches, 2 Corys, 35 mixed Tetras incl Cardinals
Water Changes 20g daily 100% RO + RO Right
Have raised tank temp to 30C/86F no other treatment as yet.
Any help would be greatly appreciated
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Re: Safely Treating White Spot
Do you have a picture? It wasn't discus, but I had a bout of epistylis (spots are "fuzzy") that started out looking a lot like ich. It started on rummynose and ended up hitting cardinals the worst. Two weeks + three days of kanamycin (kanaplex) mixed with focus into food did the trick. It was pretty nasty. I was raising temps and hitting them with Ich-X twice a day (after 50% water changes) and it didn't make a dent.
I don't know if it started as "stress ich" or ich and then epistylis was secondary infection or what.
It was one scoop of Kanaplex, one scoop Focus, and one tablespoon of food. Then a capful of Garlic Guard. The fish loved it, so that was a plus. If I needed to feed it to my discus I would thaw a cube of beef heart and make it into a paste and then refreeze it, I think.
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Re: Safely Treating White Spot
It appears to be white spot from my experience, plus it's hitting their fins and the loaches are rubbing themselves against the decor to try and remove the spots.Attachment 132786Attachment 132786
Re: Safely Treating White Spot
Wow those guys are in rough shape. Without knowing more, I'd say you have some cross contamination going on. I would raise the temp to 32 and treat with Rid Ich Plus.
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Re: Safely Treating White Spot
I know, and all within 5 days with nothing being introduced to the tank and near perfect water conditions. My concern in raising the temperature to 32C is that it will kill the 35/40 tetras as to date they remain clear of the disease. Not a great picture as the light isn't good. This was the tank 5 days ago! How did this occur?Attachment 132787
Re: Safely Treating White Spot
The ich med might kill the tetras and loaches also.
Re: Safely Treating White Spot
Would ich manifest on just one fish or type of fish in a tank?
When was the last time someone was introduced into the tank?
Re: Safely Treating White Spot
In addition to heat use a copper based medication - but half the dosage because of the loaches
Re: Safely Treating White Spot
Discus (x3) didn't make it through the night. Loaches, Corys and Tetras seem okay at the moment. Am reluctant to medicate as things stand, the 2 large discus I'd had for over 10 years and they were frail beforehand. Luckily I was able to hold off my new delivery of discus as I'll not introduce any fish into this tank until the issue has been resolved. The only additions were a few Tetras over a month ago.
My suspicion of the root cause of the outbreak is that I, after a week away, did a couple of overly large water changes that dropped the temperature each time from circa 28C to 24C, apparently such fluctuations can bring on a white spot infestation? Any comments would be appreciated.
Re: Safely Treating White Spot
Sorry for your losses. You're probably right about the heat, however Rid Ich shouldn't hurt other fish. This seems to be a parasite and the reason it seems to be attacking only discus is probably because of their slime coat. Tammy is thinking epistylis.
I do agree that a copper based med could help but be very careful using copper and follow directions precisely and it can be lethal, especially for the loaches.
If this were my tank, I would take a radical approach and tear the tank down, remove the gravel and treat with formalin and salt. I don't know how these will affect the loaches.
Re: Safely Treating White Spot
Quote:
Originally Posted by
jeep
Tammy is thinking epistylis.
It sure looks fuzzy to me in the pic posted, but it can be hard to tell. In any event, it looks a whole lot like the epistylis that I battled a few months back (pic above). Tough to deal with even with medicated feed. Only ever got to tetras. Corys, pleco, gourami were all fine. Ich-X didn't do anything to even remotely slow it.
In Branch's pic the darker discus looks like it might have white spots on its eyes, which is what finally tripped a trigger in realizing I wasn't dealing with ich.
Lousy losing the fish, Branch... sorry about that :(
Re: Safely Treating White Spot
Ich are very uniform in size. These are much larger than ich and not uniform at all. It looks more like epistylis, but without a microscope there is no way to know for sure as there are other protozoa that also become cysts. Formalin is a good treatment and 2 of the ich medications contain it. Salt is another good alternative at a dose of 5tbs per 10G. Most likely the loaches will not do well with either treatment, however your choices are limited. I would follow Brians advice and remove everything from the tank until this is finished. It is best to keep it bare.
Tammy
Re: Safely Treating White Spot
Thanks guys, with the affected fish now gone I will monitor things for the next few days, keeping the temp high and daily water changes. My hope is that I don't have to medicate. Failing this I will go with Jeep's suggestion and strip the tank down. The problem is that the tank is in my office and therefore major maintenance isn't an easy option, thankfully over the past 20 plus years it's never needed anything major.
Re: Safely Treating White Spot
It's not an easy decision but I think it's the right one. Just keep in mind that all those bugs are also living in the gravel and filters...
Good luck!
Re: Safely Treating White Spot
Loaches bought it in the night, had them 12 years. Tetras and Corys all clear? Am confused why they're not showing any signs of the disease? Any ideas guys?