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Shan's First Discus Journey
Hi everyone! I am Shan and I'm an amateur fish keeper. I've dabbled in community setups, planted tanks, and on the summer of 2019 I came across a buddy of mine who had a couple of gorgeous discus. At the time I didn't know what they were but I was instantly swept away. I just had to have some.
I spent the next few months (August 2019-November 2019) researching and lurking these forums to learn as much as I could before finally starting my project.
I am so excited!
I began with a plan - I wanted to experience raising discus to the best of both mine and their potential. This meant daily 90% PWC and as many feedings I could (at least 4).
With the help of a friend I made through my local aquarium fb group, we made a stand for my brand new 55. I also painted the underbottom a sand color paint and added my touches on the back panel.
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I got a 55 aging barrel as well and have been practicing water changes recently. I have 2 powerful 1/6hp and a slightly less powerful aquarium pump to drain water and help with water changes. I have been fishless cycling the tank since early December of 2019 and it seems to be fully cycled!
I recently purchased some manzanita wood and will be adding it to the tank shortly.
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I am driving up to Hans this Sunday to get 12-14 juvenile discus with nice round bodies and small eyes.
HYPE! Will post more pictures as I continue to add more to the tank!
Wish me luck!
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Re: Shan's First Discus Journey
How exciting! It seems that you've done a lot of reading. I'm looking forward to seeing you progress. Have you decided on what strains you want yet?
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Re: Shan's First Discus Journey
I love the Love and Peace back ground!! great stand. I hope that your journey is a flawless one. Welcome to the forum although you've been lurking for months!
any ideas on the strain you're going to keep?
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Re: Shan's First Discus Journey
Thank you guys! Yes I have an idea roughly.
Starting with
3x Brilliant Turqs
3x German Wonder
3x Cobalts
2x White Leopard
2x Pigeon Blood (Orange)
I'm not sure if the white leopard is pigeon blood and whether or not I should even mix them in case I get the breeding itch in a year or two
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Re: Shan's First Discus Journey
The white leopard sounds like a PB to me and of course your orange pigeons are. If you think you may want to breed I would go either with all Pigeons or all non pigeons. Otherwise, just get what rings your bell.
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Re: Shan's First Discus Journey
Hi Shan, the tank looks great and glad to see you have been reading up and sound prepared. Looking forward to see what you do fish wise. Once your juvies are settled and doing well what's your next step. I see another tank in your future. :D
Pat
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Re: Shan's First Discus Journey
Thanks Pat! Hopefully they don't outgrow the 55 too soon. I'll be upgrading to a 90 then!
After talking with Hans I think I may get some pigeon blood mixed in with my nons and worry about breeding later. Maybe two years down the line. For now let's just see how I grow them out and will focus on learning.
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Re: Shan's First Discus Journey
Trip to Hans was long, but totally worth it. Had a great time with Hans. RIP Ravens.
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Got home super late (9hr trip) but the fish were great and acclimation didn't take long. They eagerly ate right away and I dimmed the lights right after to let them adjust.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ApzQ...ature=youtu.be
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Re: Shan's First Discus Journey
Week 2 Update.
Appetite seems to have increased. I'm feeding them as much as I can on the days I have off (5-6 feedings). But usually weekdays they get fed 3 times BH and flakes while im at work. Loving them so much. Water changes are becoming habit, enjoying all aspects of keeping these babies. =D
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YElAMA4-mCs&feature=youtu.be
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Re: Shan's First Discus Journey
In the middle of week 3 and I seem to have noticed a bit of an issue, hopefully not a big one. I have acted accordingly.
While doing my daily 90% WC, I noticed some teeny tiny little worm/slug like things on my glass. They are so small and only stick to the glass. From researching what it could be, I am steering towards Planaria as they don't seem long or exhibit the same behavior as Detritus worms. Then again I have 0 experience with these.
I have always siphoned out extra food 2-3 hours after a feeding, but definitely at least 2 times a day. Especially before /during my big water change at night. I think the culprit was my cannister filter. I haven't cleaned it since I started the tank cycling process. I spent 3 weeks away from the tank out of town in which I used flake food on a timer once a day while I was gone.
Even though I use a prefilter and rinse everyday, I feel it might have gotten dirty inside the cannister so I took it apart to take a look at it.
BROWN GUNK! Just full of brown stuff everywhere, and dirty water. So I rinsed the inside of the cannister, all the ceramic media, until the water rinsing came out cleanish. I took the tubes apart and cleaned them with pipe cleaner until they looked new. (I rinsed with tap water hope it's not a big deal). Then I put it back together and added dechlorinater before reattaching to tank.
I will keep an eye on the glass and see if the problem goes away.
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Re: Shan's First Discus Journey
Is your canister your only source of filtration? Never clean with tap and always use tank water to rinse media. You might have restarted your cycle so keep an eye out for water parameters.
If you feed those juvies once a day you will stunt them. I would not worry about those little white worms.
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Re: Shan's First Discus Journey
Do you turn off your canister for feeding? I turn mine off for 10-12 minutes and then turn back on. No issues with biological filtration. Keeps the canister cleaner longer (even with prefilter.
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Re: Shan's First Discus Journey
Quote:
Originally Posted by
fljones3
Do you turn off your canister for feeding? I turn mine off for 10-12 minutes and then turn back on. No issues with biological filtration. Keeps the canister cleaner longer (even with prefilter.
Brilliant idea. I do notice small pieces of food and poop get stuck behind the pre filter area but I usually scoop it up when I siphon.
Also Mando, I feed them minimum 3 times a day. Weekends I do 5. I also have auto feeders giving out flake food while im at work every 3 hours. When I get home I feed them Hans BH every 3 hours until large WC then bedtime.
The worms seemed to have gone away. Ill look closer once I do my WC today.
As far as restarting my cycle. Oops. But I'm not too worried about it with daily 90% WC. I'm sure it'll fix itself up. Lol Hopefully. I did rinse them with tap water but put the sponge back in chlorinated water right away (withint 10 minutes).
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Re: Shan's First Discus Journey
If you're changing water that frequently, you don't really need mechanical filtration. I'd just stick with the sponge filters and that'll be more than enough. I squeeze mine weekly, but that's probably more often than it needs. Keep up the W/C's and the Stendkers will be huge before you know it.
Good luck, Willie
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Re: Shan's First Discus Journey
Thanks for the reply Willie.
Are you sure I don't need the cannister? I mean I could totally put in another sponge but I have a knack in my head saying the cannister filter will help keep my water clean and my tank cycled in case I have to leave for a few days. I'm worried about leaving them without a big WC more than a day. My cannister filter is primarily filled with bioballs and some crushed coral. Barebottom was hard to cycle without any PH stabilizer. I had so many PH crashes
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Re: Shan's First Discus Journey
If you're changing 90% of the water daily, then the water in your tank is essentially the same as the water in your geographic water table. I change 100% daily and the water going in is the same as the water going out. (My water is conditioned 24 hours.) As far as the fish are concerned, pH, KH, GH do not change. That's the beauty of large water changes. If you're changing this much water, there are no pH crashes at all. I'd get rid of the crush coral.
Your sponge filter is the most biologically active bacterial reservoir because of the availability of oxygen. Canister filters are typically limited by the amount of oxygen, so bacterial growth is much less robust than open filtration systems. In addition, the amount of surface area is a sponge is orders of magnitude larger than what's available in bioballs. I've converted my entire fishroom to running only sponge filters. They also never accumulate gunk.
Good luck, Willie
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Re: Shan's First Discus Journey
Fourth Week of having them, and I'm starting to see some growth. Considering they're about 16 weeks old, I'm gonna have to get a bigger tank sooner than expected.
Nothing new to report. Missed a night of WC (ohno) because I forgot to turn on the aging barrel's heater/bubbler. derp.
Waiting on my order of SD's FDBW to start mixing into their diet this week. Woo.
Some update pics
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Re: Shan's First Discus Journey
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Willie
If you're changing 90% of the water daily, then the water in your tank is essentially the same as the water in your geographic water table. I change 100% daily and the water going in is the same as the water going out. (My water is conditioned 24 hours.) As far as the fish are concerned, pH, KH, GH do not change. That's the beauty of large water changes. If you're changing this much water, there are no pH crashes at all. I'd get rid of the crush coral.
Your sponge filter is the most biologically active bacterial reservoir because of the availability of oxygen. Canister filters are typically limited by the amount of oxygen, so bacterial growth is much less robust than open filtration systems. In addition, the amount of surface area is a sponge is orders of magnitude larger than what's available in bioballs. I've converted my entire fishroom to running only sponge filters. They also never accumulate gunk.
Good luck, Willie
I am a big fan of large WC for discus too. When I grown out my discus from quarter size to 4 inches, I do 2 x 90% WC per day. They are really healthy and happy :) :)
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Re: Shan's First Discus Journey
After I had cleaned the canister filter last weekend thoroughly, I had thought I got rid of the planaria but they are still here. On today's WC, I see a lot more than before. I am also having a hard time keeping my sponge filter clean as I am rinsing it in the tank water almost everyday. It seems to build up with poop. This is probably because I tried something different - - I used the sponge part of the sponge filter as the pre filter for my 525 sunsun canister.
What should I do to get rid of these planaria? I am only feeding enough to where they finish and scoop up leftovers within 10 minutes. I also turn the filter off during feeding and only turn it back on after I siphon.
I do daily 90% WC.
Feed BH 3-5 times a day and siphon out immediately.
Wipe everything down 1-2 days.
Running 1 sponge and 1 canister filter of which I recently cleaned up.
Here is a picture for reference.
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P.S. Fish are super fine and growing. Poop looks normal as well
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Re: Shan's First Discus Journey
I suggest you look at the canister again. Soak all the biostuff in 20% Clorox for 20 minutes and replace all the foam. That's where the planaria can hide. Your existing sponge filter can handle the biological filtration load with no problem. Frankly, there's little need for mechanical filtration if you're doing 90% water changes.
Willie
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Re: Shan's First Discus Journey
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Re: Shan's First Discus Journey
I might just have to omit the canister all together. However I haven't had any luck finding a pre filter that would actually fit my inlet vertically (always leaves a tiny bit of space.) I can do some more digging around and try a different pre filter. Or just as Willie says omit the canister all together
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Re: Shan's First Discus Journey
A lot of my bunch are starting to push 3" now. Some of them look massive and I couldn't be happier. Still doing daily water changes and lots o feedings. The planaria went away with the help of a prefilter that actually fits and I am doing a better job of rinsing it every WC.
They are eating FDBW out of a cone once a day, they all love them.
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One thing though, one of my Cobalts recently starting ignoring food all together and would hang out in a corner looking sad and depressed. Then I started to notice that all the fish wouldn't finish they usual serving of beefheart. I always find a good bit left over which seemed unusual. I raised the temp to 88 and added some epsom salt and lo and behold the next day -
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I immediately went to petco and got some API gen cure which I will be administering until I can order bulk from JEHMCO tomorrow. Until then I will follow instructions per the API gen cure box and dose 5 packets for my 55 and leave for 48 hours.
Couple of questions to anyone reading this, please correct me if I am doing wrong (most info I got from here)
-88 F
-big WC after 48 hrs instead of 24
-less beefheart, some FDBW and bloodworms during treatment
-watch closely
I am wating for a stronger heater to arrive this week so I can raise the temp to 91.
Please let me know if this sounds good or nay
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Re: Shan's First Discus Journey
Rough times, I knew it might happen but still hurts - -
The cobalt that had the white stringy poop turned real dark this afternoon and now is floating awkwardly occasionally turning upside down. He's struggling to swim obviously and I haven't seen him eating still. Its crazy cause he just stopped eating barely more than a day ago.
Not sure if he'll survive the night, not sure what I could have done differently... Guess we'll see
Edit: He died. Should I continue the metro treatment for the whole tank?
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Re: Shan's First Discus Journey
Sorry to hear Shan. Tough loss mate. I would continue the treatment for 10-12 days as hex is a common tank parasite. The complete treatment will greatly reduce pathogen nunbers by disrulting the life cycle and protect any othrr stressed fish from succumbing. Condolences bro:(
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Re: Shan's First Discus Journey
Kk will do. It's just insane to me that she died so quickly. I barely had a day to respond to him
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Re: Shan's First Discus Journey
That is unusual for sure, especially since fish can live with hex for a long time. It may not have been the primary cause, but if you cut the metro treatment short you run the risk of the parasite developing resistance to it in your tank. Watch your other fish close for loss of balance. Perhaps the deceased discus had a swim bladder infection which is usually bacterial. Any swelling in abdomen?
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Re: Shan's First Discus Journey
No swelling in abdomen. In fact no physical issues whatsoever noticeable apart from loss of color two hours before death. it was doing the corner stare and swam normally not even 7 hours before death. Only thing I've done differently this week is add FDBW into diet. I still continued to do daily 90% PWC with aged water at 86F to match. I have a checker app that helps me remember to add prime to barrel before WC.
One strange thing that started a few days ago was that all the discus stopped destroying their BH feedings. Usually fed them about two small dime sized pieces which they would usually eat like 90-100% of it within 5-10 minutes, but recently they started to only eat 50% or less of the beefheart. Not sure whats so different. It has been in the freezer since purchase in a properly sealed container and I thaw only hours ahead of feedings if not a day.
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Re: Shan's First Discus Journey
That's also unusual feeding behaviour. Your wc routine is also perfect, right down to adding prime as you do the wc. I hope someone with more longevity with discus can offer some assistance mate
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Re: Shan's First Discus Journey
Two of them definitely look stunted and I'm wondering if it has anything to do with the worm issue. Anyways I'll be treating them next 14 days with both metro and prazi.
Any experts with opinions welcome. Here's a quick video of them eating.
P. S. Tank is at 88F atm and I want to raise it to 92 for the next 10 days. Is a gradual raising necessary or can I go straight to 92?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cnXkCO2bVL4&feature=youtu.be
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Re: Shan's First Discus Journey
None of them look stunted to me. That been said, when you grow up 10 young discus, some are grow a lot bigger than the others. They seem all to be eating very well.
Metro is for intestinal worms. Do this treatment when you see white, stringy feces. Prazi is for gill flukes, generally not a problem until they spawn. All medication will set the fish back. If they're sick, then there's no choice. But I wouldn't do anything unless you can confirm the disease.
As for temperature, I'd recommend you adjust the heater to 82 - 84F. You can do that immediately and the water temperature will drop on its own.
Willie
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Re: Shan's First Discus Journey
Thanks for the knowledge Willie, much appreciated.
I hope they are doing okay and on track as I have no experience prior. I have been working hard to do everything the right way. I have noticed 2 of my 15 are smaller than the rest but from looking at their eye to body ratio it's hard to believe they aren't stunted. I will love them either way. For example the two Marlboro reds I got were roughly the same size a month ago when I got them, but just looking at them side by side today the difference is huge. I'll try and update with individual pictures whenever I get a chance.
From my earlier post on the previous page, I have definitely identified white poop from the cobalt that died shortly after. Also the following morning I saw a little bit of white poop from another discus as well hence the metro treatment. I will dose double the JEHMCO dosage per gallon as soon as many of this site have recommended in previous posts.
As far as Prazi, I read a quarantine procedure and they used Metro and prazi in conjuction so I was just following suite. I haven't added it yet and if it's just for flukes I will abstain from doing so. (I'll just keep it on hand since it expires in 2 years).
The temperature recommendation I do not understand which to follow. I am reading about raising temps to 91+ in order to help kill intestinal parasites along with the metro, and Hans has been keeping his discus at normal health at 86-87. I always thought 84F was for a more adult discus and discus that weren't being treated for white poop
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Re: Shan's First Discus Journey
Hi Shan;
I've kept discus at 93+ without killing any intestinal parasites. However, metro at the correct dosage always work for me. You can certainly keep discus at higher temperatures, although it will reduce their life span. I keep mine at 82F and use a high temperature only to break a fasting spell.
Hans is an extremely knowledgeable guy, but his role is that of a reseller. He wants his fish active and hungry, but he's not keeping them long.
Willie
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Re: Shan's First Discus Journey
Got my finnex non-thermostat heater and medicine from JEHMCO two days ago. Could not recommend them enough. Fast 2 day shipping, affordable pricing, absolutely recommend. 10/10
My hygger heater only went up to 88 so my tank was roughly sitting at 87 or less. I moved on from general cure to using actual metro but I had a bit of a mishap anyways ->
I measured out 400mg dosage which when translated to the container instructions turned out to be 0.67 teaspoons for my 55 gallon. So I used a 1/2tsp + half a 1/4 tsp (eyed it) while I did a 90% PWC. Felt real good to be able to do a large water change daily again. I've been skipping a day for the past 4 days to treat with general cure per their recommendations. Funny how I actually missed doing a big water change rather than enjoy it. :p
I started to add 1 tblspoon Epsom salt per 10 gallon during my large WC as well.
I also added the finnex heater and upped the temp to 89F. 12 hours later I just bumped it up to 90. I'll be changing it to 91 when I get home today and then continue until I hit 94 (aiming for 92-93 tank temp). I plan on leaving it at this temp for 2 weeks until I bring it down to 84 as willie suggested.
My fish are still ignoring their BH mix. I'm going to try and make a homemade BH mix using Brian's recipe he so kindly shared with me sometime soon. But fortunately most of them are eating Al's FDBW and bloodworms so I will be feeding them mostly FDBW and bloodworms occasionally. I'm also pretty sure they eat the flake food from my auto feeder as it's all gone when I get home.
HOWEVER, I still have a 2-3 fish that I noticed will not eat at all. One of which had white poop 2 days ago. It's been a few days and I'm worried they're gonna end up like the one I lost last weekend. God I pray not but I'm trying to do everything right so..yeah. At least I haven't noticed white poop recently. I'm not sure how to tell if the treatment is working well because they still aren't eating. But I'll be patient.
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I did screw up though. I was so busy cleaning the filter and measuring out the dosages and pouring it in properly as it mixed with flow and adding the heater that I forgot to add prime.
Sh*t.
After I filled the tank up all the way almost immediately I noticed a couple of my fishes darting and moving erratically. It hit me almost immediately and I teleported to my closet to grab the prime next to my aging barrel and poured in a whole capful + a bit more into the tank.
Worst night yet. I worried like a Harvard grad intern on his first job man. But it seems like they're doing okay now. I'm still an a:bandana::flame:hole for making them go through that. smh
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Re: Shan's First Discus Journey
[QUOTE=Shan_Evolved;1334006]...Felt real good to be able to do a large water change daily again. I've been skipping a day for the past 4 days to treat with general cure per their recommendations. Funny how I actually missed doing a big water change rather than enjoy it..../QUOTE]
Borderline obsessives make the best discus keepers. ;)
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Re: Shan's First Discus Journey
they are looking good and as said, some grow faster / bigger then others, nothing to worry about
I hope you sort your problems soon, so you can go back to enjoying the fish for 100% and not worry all the time ;)
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Re: Shan's First Discus Journey
Don’t worry about the growth rate, I have had Hans’s Stendkers for about an year and they all grow at different rates.
Hans is a great guy!!! and his fish are fantastic!
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Re: Shan's First Discus Journey
If you have carbon in your filtration system try replacing it, it definitely helps in such situations.
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Re: Shan's First Discus Journey
I'm not worried about the growth rate. I only planned on keeping maximum 10 and I have plenty in the group that are growing well. I enjoy them a lot but im worried about their current state of not eating anything at all. I also dont deal with any carbon block, in fact I got rid of the canister all together.
Please see this thread
http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showth...47#post1334147
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Re: Shan's First Discus Journey
Cool! My discus were going on and off on eating as well. My latest trick appear to be working and here it is:
- I have two automatic feeders in which I rotate different types of feed - Hans flakes, Sera granules, Hikari bio gold, Cobalt pellets, Al’s Discus goldplanktus
- Feeding time is 9 AM, 3 PM & 9 PM
- at the time of feeding, my filtration, air pump, slimmer - everything stops
- first feed drops at 9 AM and second feed drops at 9:10 AM, same 10 min interval is used other times as well
- I also feed black worms, blood worms, b. Shrimp a couple of times
- I have also been leaving seaweed for them to graze as needed
- lights run from 8AM to 3 PM and 5 PM to 9 PM.
I have been doing this for a little over a month and it has been working well for me so far.
All this is a combination of advises from various threads here and some personal experiences.