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Artificial Rearing of Fry
I am starting this thread in a effort document raising fry artifically. It has been a few years since I have raised any fry, although I have had much sucess using this method. I adopted this method after reading Dick Au's great book Trophy Discus.
I took the eggs from the T-Aqua Respect Cobalt Version 2 (Old German) pair last night and shot a video of the very upset parents. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GrrY22cekcA . They are not confirmed yet. I use a pvc pipe which slides over the smaller pvc pipes used in the tanks for overflow and drain. This makes it easy to remove the eggs. Once the parents laid the eggs, this spawn produced about 120 eggs, I moved the pipe to a small tank with methylene blue, heater and airline. I keep the pair in a pH of 6 to 6.5 pure tap water. The water used in the hatching container is the same pH but I used half R.O water to lower the TDS reading. TDS will be just under 100ppm.
I left the eggs in the hatching tank over night and returned to find half the eggs had detached because I had way too much air pressure going to the hatching tank. Remember I haven't done this for sometime so it may take a few times, providing the eggs hatch.
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Re: Artificial Rearing of Fry
Kraig, I watched your video and I think a air-stone which generates a finer air bubble will give you a gentler flow and not knock the eggs off the PVC pipe.
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Re: Artificial Rearing of Fry
Good luck! Hope it works out well for you! I have been using this method for several spawns and have had very good results. I'm sure you will too...After eggs hatch and go free swimming, I like to round up the fry and place them in small plastic bowls ( I like to use white as its much easier to see the fry) at around 30 fry per bowl. I float the bowls in a tank with correct temp water and use the ambient heat of the tank to heat the bowls along with a slightly trickling airstone. I use a powdered egg yolk mixture smeared on the edge of the bowl at the waterline for their first week or so. At around 7 days I start to introduce BBS and decrease egg yolk feedings. 80-90% percent WC every 4 hrs and re-feed. At last WC of the day no food. At 2 wks they are off egg yolk and completely on BBS. At 3 wks the fry are moved to a 10 g tank and sponge filter still feeding BBS and starting to introduce solid food as well (Hikari first bites work well as it is very fine and very nutritious but other powdered food would be just as good) at 4 wkss they are moved to a 30 g tank and completely on solid food. I hope this helps somewhat and I wish you all the best! Those are some outstanding genetics you're working with!
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Re: Artificial Rearing of Fry
Kraig,
If succesful with the hatch, what do you plan on feeding?
Rick
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Re: Artificial Rearing of Fry
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Second Hand Pat
Kraig, I watched your video and I think a air-stone which generates a finer air bubble will give you a gentler flow and not knock the eggs off the PVC pipe.
Good idea Pat. I don't have any right now and don't plan on getting any until David Rose gets his order in. Maybe I will make a trip to the LFS and pick up one.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
BoiseDiscusGuy
Good luck! Hope it works out well for you! I have been using this method for several spawns and have had very good results. I'm sure you will too...After eggs hatch and go free swimming, I like to round up the fry and place them in small plastic bowls ( I like to use white as its much easier to see the fry) at around 30 fry per bowl. I float the bowls in a tank with correct temp water and use the ambient heat of the tank to heat the bowls along with a slightly trickling airstone. I use a powdered egg yolk mixture smeared on the edge of the bowl at the waterline for their first week or so. At around 7 days I start to introduce BBS and decrease egg yolk feedings. 80-90% percent WC every 4 hrs and re-feed. At last WC of the day no food. At 2 wks they are off egg yolk and completely on BBS. At 3 wks the fry are moved to a 10 g tank and sponge filter still feeding BBS and starting to introduce solid food as well (Hikari first bites work well as it is very fine and very nutritious but other powdered food would be just as good) at 4 wkss they are moved to a 30 g tank and completely on solid food. I hope this helps somewhat and I wish you all the best! Those are some outstanding genetics you're working with!
It sounds like we use the same technique, except I never use egg yoke. It isn't necessary as long as you get the smallest brine shrimp egg available.
The fry immediately take the newly hatched brine shrimp as Dick explains in his book.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
nc0gnet0
Ksuccessful succesful with the hatch, what do you plan on feeding?
Rick
I feed newly hatched brine shrimp for the first week and then decapsulated brine shrimp eggs and then I start a broader diet of flake, grow formula.
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Re: Artificial Rearing of Fry
Quote:
It sounds like we use the same technique, except I never use egg yoke. It isn't necessary as long as you get the smallest brine shrimp egg available.
The fry immediately take the newly hatched brine shrimp as Dick explains in his book
May I ask where you get your brine shrimp eggs of this size?
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Re: Artificial Rearing of Fry
Quote:
Originally Posted by
nc0gnet0
May I ask where you get your brine shrimp eggs of this size?
I would also like to know...If I can get away from the powdered egg yolk, I'm all for it! Do you use the hatching or non hatching decapsulated?
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Re: Artificial Rearing of Fry
Quote:
Originally Posted by
nc0gnet0
May I ask where you get your brine shrimp eggs of this size?
San Francisco Strain
http://www.brineshrimpdirect.com/c2/...-Eggs-c24.html
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Re: Artificial Rearing of Fry
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Brokenrack
Like he said. I use the same eggs. Thanks.
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Re: Artificial Rearing of Fry
Interesting, I use these as well as some hatchable decaps from an ebay supplier and I swear the decaps are smaller in size.
Rick
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Re: Artificial Rearing of Fry
intresting indeed. Wattley used to tell me he would use the egg yolk with newly hatched BBS mashed into the mix. If there is a way to avoid the egg yolk that would be great. Has anyone raised fry without the egg yolk?
Ed
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Re: Artificial Rearing of Fry
Quote:
Originally Posted by
nc0gnet0
Interesting, I use these as well as some hatchable decaps from an ebay supplier and I swear the decaps are smaller in size.
Rick
Before or after hatching? Before they would since they have no shell.
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Re: Artificial Rearing of Fry
Here is an interesting video about an Italian breeders method.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gOXcw...eature=related
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Re: Artificial Rearing of Fry
I still use the egg powder with some APR. Jack Wattley was getting his brineshrimp eggs at one time from Andy Schmidt(OSI) located
in the San Francisco Bay Area, now Bing Seto only uses Kordon eggs only for his new born fry.
http://badiscus.3.forumer.com/index.php?showtopic=34
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Re: Artificial Rearing of Fry
Quote:
Originally Posted by
MostlyDiscus
intresting indeed. Wattley used to tell me he would use the egg yolk with newly hatched BBS mashed into the mix. If there is a way to avoid the egg yolk that would be great. Has anyone raised fry without the egg yolk?
Ed
Yes I have raised many without egg yolk and I have never raised any with egg yolk. The egg yolk method fowls the water very quickly making things very labor intensive I hear.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Brokenrack
Thanks for sharing. Great video
Quote:
Originally Posted by
CliffsDiscus
I still use the egg powder with some APR. Jack Wattley was getting his brineshrimp eggs at one time from Andy Schmidt(OSI) located
in the San Francisco Bay Area, now Bing Seto only uses Kordon eggs only for his new born fry.
http://badiscus.3.forumer.com/index.php?showtopic=34
Wow Bing Seto is still raising Discus. Hook me up please.
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Re: Artificial Rearing of Fry
I have many wigglers tonight but they are all on the bottom of the hatching tank. This may cause them to be deformed, we will have to see. I couldn't get a good shot with them on the bottom. I will try to do videos after I get them to the enamel pans.
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Re: Artificial Rearing of Fry
Kraig, would love to see pictures of your setup.
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Re: Artificial Rearing of Fry
Pat nothing to brag about. The hatching tank is in the above video. I will try to shoot videos of every step if we get that far. If not there is a next time.
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Re: Artificial Rearing of Fry
Quote:
Originally Posted by
CliffsDiscus
I still use the egg powder with some APR. Jack Wattley was getting his brineshrimp eggs at one time from Andy Schmidt(OSI) located
in the San Francisco Bay Area, now Bing Seto only uses Kordon eggs only for his new born fry.
http://badiscus.3.forumer.com/index.php?showtopic=34
Cliff, Bing is back to breeding?
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Re: Artificial Rearing of Fry
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Eddie
Cliff, Bing is back to breeding?
Hi Eddie,
What I meant was when Bing was breeding he used the Kordon. Bing called me up awhile back after talking to Dick Au, he was looking for a 10 gallon tank for
his grand kid for her pet mice, so I don't think Bing is back. His hatchery was converted to a living space for Stacy(youngest Daughter).
Take Care!
Cliff
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Re: Artificial Rearing of Fry
Wow Bing Seto is still raising Discus. Hook me up please.[/QUOTE]
Most of Bing's Discus were sold to someone in New York, I will still have some of his Discus's bloodline untill I relocate.
Cliff
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Re: Artificial Rearing of Fry
Quote:
Originally Posted by
CliffsDiscus
Hi Eddie,
What I meant was when Bing was breeding he used the Kordon. Bing called me up awhile back after talking to Dick Au, he was looking for a 10 gallon tank for
his grand kid for her pet mice, so I don't think Bing is back. His hatchery was converted to a living space for Stacy(youngest Daughter).
Take Care!
Cliff
Ah okay....I was gonna say, would be nice!
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Re: Artificial Rearing of Fry
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Eddie
Ah okay....I was gonna say, would be nice!
Hi Eddie,
Have you hear the name Murasaki before in Japan. He was an exporter in the San Francisco Bay Area, he said 1000 Discus each month were sent in the 90's to Japan,
when Murasaki downsized many of his Red Discus and were sold to Bing. Then there were the Dirk Schlingman Discus that Bing bought too, also at that time
Fairly Lake Discus had some nice non juiced striated Discus, so Bing got those Discus too. Bing cross many of these Discus to develope his own strain.
The development of his hatchery came from advice of Dick Au, Wilfred Fong, Richard Feiller and my self, Jim Quales later became the PR rep
Cliff
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Re: Artificial Rearing of Fry
Quote:
Originally Posted by
CliffsDiscus
Hi Eddie,
Have you hear the name Murasaki before in Japan. He was an exporter in the San Francisco Bay Area, he said 1000 Discus each month were sent in the 90's to Japan,
when Murasaki downsized many of his Red Discus and were sold to Bing. Then there were the Dirk Schlingman Discus that Bing bought too, also at that time
Fairly Lake Discus had some nice non juiced striated Discus, so Bing got those Discus too. Bing cross many of these Discus to develope his own strain.
The development of his hatchery came from advice of Dick Au, Wilfred Fong, Richard Feiller and my self, Jim Quales later became the PR rep
Cliff
That name sounds familiar. Bing had some of the nicest fish ever!
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Re: Artificial Rearing of Fry
Thanks for sharing Cliff. On a different thread, maybe you could tell us about discus in the San Francisco Bay Area from the 70's through the present.
Steve
Quote:
Originally Posted by
CliffsDiscus
Hi Eddie,
Have you hear the name Murasaki before in Japan. He was an exporter in the San Francisco Bay Area, he said 1000 Discus each month were sent in the 90's to Japan,
when Murasaki downsized many of his Red Discus and were sold to Bing. Then there were the Dirk Schlingman Discus that Bing bought too, also at that time
Fairly Lake Discus had some nice non juiced striated Discus, so Bing got those Discus too. Bing cross many of these Discus to develope his own strain.
The development of his hatchery came from advice of Dick Au, Wilfred Fong, Richard Feiller and my self, Jim Quales later became the PR rep
Cliff
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Re: Artificial Rearing of Fry
Quote:
Originally Posted by
magewynd
Thanks for sharing Cliff. On a different thread, maybe you could tell us about discus in the San Francisco Bay Area from the 70's through the present.
Steve
No problem but since we are on this thread, these are the people in the Bay Area that have and maybe still are successful in artifical breeding, they
are Alan Yee, Richard Feiller, Dick Au, Lenny Lebue, Bing Seto, Wilfred Fong and myself, I might have left out one or two but thats about all. These are
breeders from 1970 to present, not many left out of this group, they are now in the AARP Group.
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Re: Artificial Rearing of Fry
Quote:
Originally Posted by
CliffsDiscus
No problem but since we are on this thread, these are the people in the Bay Area that have and maybe still are successful in artifical breeding, they
are Alan Yee, Richard Feiller, Dick Au, Lenny Lebue, Bing Seto, Wilfred Fong and myself, I might have left out one or two but thats about all. These are
breeders from 1970 to present, not many left out of this group, they are now in the AARP Group.
I appreciate the old fish coming from there. I sure would love to see some of those old bloodlines.
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Re: Artificial Rearing of Fry
Update on the fry. I have fry in a white enamel pan. Nearly lost them all when I sunk the pan in the tank it's floating in. I was able to recover many but not all. Never done that one before. I have started a couple jugs of brine shrimp and I hope to see free swimming fry later today. Mom and pop have found a solution to me yanking the eggs as they laid a large batch of eggs on the glass.
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Re: Artificial Rearing of Fry
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Re: Artificial Rearing of Fry
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Kingdom Come Discus
Update on the fry. I have fry in a white enamel pan. Nearly lost them all when I sunk the pan in the tank it's floating in. I was able to recover many but not all. Never done that one before. I have started a couple jugs of brine shrimp and I hope to see free swimming fry later today. Mom and pop have found a solution to me yanking the eggs as they laid a large batch of eggs on the glass.
Kraig, suck them with an airline attached to a small length of hard tube. I've done it many times with my angels and works great. Best of luck rearing the fry.
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Re: Artificial Rearing of Fry
Quote:
Originally Posted by
CrazyAngels
Kraig, suck them with an airline attached to a small length of hard tube. I've done it many times with my angels and works great. Best of luck rearing the fry.
Good idea Jorge, Thanks.
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Re: Artificial Rearing of Fry
Video of the fry on their first day of free swimming.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CiIB9OlWCns
Video of the fry eating their first meal comprised of Newly hatched BBS.
http://youtu.be/nCwZufbloP8
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Re: Artificial Rearing of Fry
Hi Cliff
Quote:
Originally Posted by
CliffsDiscus
Hi Eddie,
Have you hear the name Murasaki before in Japan. He was an exporter in the San Francisco Bay Area, he said 1000 Discus each month were sent in the 90's to Japan,
when Murasaki downsized many of his Red Discus and were sold to Bing. Then there were the Dirk Schlingman Discus that Bing bought too, also at that time
Fairly Lake Discus had some nice non juiced striated Discus, so Bing got those Discus too. Bing cross many of these Discus to develope his own strain.
The development of his hatchery came from advice of Dick Au, Wilfred Fong, Richard Feiller and my self, Jim Quales later became the PR rep
Cliff
When I was breeding Discus in Castro Valley, Ca in the late 80's to early 90's, I used to buy my egg yoke powder from Bing.
And I'm sure if my memory is correct I bought my Red Discus from Mr Murasaki.
Small World,
Rick
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Re: Artificial Rearing of Fry
Great and informative thread I think we stick it at breeding section :), Thanks all
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Re: Artificial Rearing of Fry
Curious how they are doing Kraig.
Rick
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Re: Artificial Rearing of Fry
Here is the update. I used two year old brine shrimp eggs and most likely not the San Fransisco type. What I am trying to say is I am not satisified when I only have twenty fry or make it. Anyway the fry that made it are doing great and here is a video of my crude setup and how I do a quick water change at least three times a day.
This video won't be public until 1:30 am. Thanks for looking.... http://youtu.be/67JVHAj1lJc
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Re: Artificial Rearing of Fry
I am going to start at the beginning here. Step one removing the eggs. http://youtu.be/ibkMvpbifsw
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Re: Artificial Rearing of Fry
Nice Kraig, I'm learning a lot about artificial fry rearing. Great thread and videos.
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2 Attachment(s)
Re: Artificial Rearing of Fry
Attachment 73727Hi could anyone tell me what type of discus the pale pink one is? Iwas told it will turn bright red with a pale face. Its about 3.5 inch.:confused:
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Re: Artificial Rearing of Fry
Lyles, You need to start your own thread not hijack this one.