Bill's Wild Greens!

Well it's been 2+ years since I've had discus... hard to believe... but fortunately that all changed today!

I'm excited to have a new group and to have a chance to work with wilds for the first time. Since I started with discus in 2016 and started avidly reading the forum, a number of folks (and especially Pat) have consistently shared photos and stories of wild fish that I've always appreciated. There are a number of domestic strains that I like and would be happy to have, but I have been biding my time to have a go with wild fish.

So, I have prepped a 125 and a group of 9 4" Tefe greens showed up a couple of hours ago...

I'm not a photographer so this thread will only have occasional iphone snapshots to give people an idea of what's going on.

For now, a couple of shots of the empty tank...

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And a quick look at the acclimating fish. They are "lights out" today but have already been out and I think they rightly suspect that I am the guy who is going to be showing up with the food... ;)

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Did you buy these from Gabe?

Welcome Back Bill!:)

I happy to see you back with us! Enjoy the fishes and seriously dont worry about the photos quality..its the fish that matter.

Al

Looking forward to your journey, Bill.
We take all kinds of pictures — poor and good. :)

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Originally Posted by dpt8

Did you buy these from Gabe?

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I did. I wasn't 100% sure how that would turn out as I have had some mixed experiences with other vendors in the past.

But I've been on the hunt for a while, my budget is limited, and I didn't see much out there that was enticing or was coming from people who specialized in discus or Amazonian fish. I also didn't want to do things in a piecemeal way with only 2-3 fish at a time. Just seemed as though social dynamics and QT would be harder that way.

I wasn't able to get in touch with Gabe via email but he did spend some time with me on the phone. Overall I'm optimistic about what I got and the turnaround time was really fast from when I ordered. I had watched some of his more recent videos on Youtube and it seems he has a better supplier he's working with in the Santarem region, though it sounded like he was also in the process of trying to work out a deal with another individual... at any rate, not settling for the leftovers that had been previously available...

Looking at 4" fish compared with the adults I rehomed a couple of years ago, I sort of feel like this will be a grow-out situation but I'm happy with that. Will be fun to work with these as a group and see what some of them can turn into, assuming I can keep them happy.

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Originally Posted by brewmaster15

Welcome Back Bill!:)

I happy to see you back with us! Enjoy the fishes and seriously dont worry about the photos quality..its the fish that matter.

Al

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Thanks, Al. Really fun to be back. Missed having these guys in the house.

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Originally Posted by fljones3

Looking forward to your journey, Bill.
We take all kinds of pictures — poor and good. :)

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Thanks, Frank. I will stick to the poor ones! ;) We have Al, Pat, and others for the good ones. But I'm too excited about having fish again not to post, so no worries. Personally I always like seeing people's fish no matter what.

Congrats Bill and happy to see you back in the game. Wild greens are one of my favorite wilds and I have found they just get more beautiful over time. Since these are 4 inch fish I would guess they are about a year old. Wild greens for me seen to mature late in their second year. Of course that is based on a guess on age lol. What's your water like Bill?
Pat

Can wait to see them in your tank. Sounds great. Good luck

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Originally Posted by Second Hand Pat

Congrats Bill and happy to see you back in the game. Wild greens are one of my favorite wilds and I have found they just get more beautiful over time. Since these are 4 inch fish I would guess they are about a year old. Wild greens for me seen to mature late in their second year. Of course that is based on a guess on age lol. What's your water like Bill?
Pat

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Hi Pat and thanks! I'm curious to know what if anything you have going yourself these days... And your question prompted me to dust off my test kits to find out more about my water. (I also recently bought one of the inexpensive pH/TDS/EC meters.)

The water itself here is generally good for them. Currently the tank parameters are:

pH: 7.1
TDS: 57
EC (conductivity): 114

My API test kits all expired in 2020 (!) and I seem to remember having trouble either reading or having confidence in the GH/KH results, which was true today as well. Never had a pH crash, though.

Also happy to report that after a couple of nights in the tank and some light feedings, the biofilter seems to be doing its job (NH3: 0, N02: 0, NO3: ~5). I did not sterilize the tank after moving rasboras, a pleco, and a lot of aquasoil substrate out, but it has been without fish and substrate for about a month and I have been dosing with ammonia. Thoroughly cleaned the filters and did a 100% water change with pre-filtered water the night before the discus arrived. So far everyone is looking good.

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Originally Posted by dpt8

Can wait to see them in your tank. Sounds great. Good luck

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Here's one random snapshot from the first day... they are still getting used to the lighting and therefore spending a lot of their time huddling but overall they are getting more comfortable and looking good. Adjusting to the new foods as well.

I defer to people with better eyes than me but I'm happy with their shape. I see a couple of them that probably had some ammonia burn or fin rot in their history (maybe when initially exported) so maybe at some point after they're well settled I might trim a couple of fins. But I haven't noticed anything else. Good times!

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Hi Bill, your water parameters sound good. Be aware I have always experienced a mini-cycle the first week and manage that will a daily water change (around 50% in a 75). Also suggest aging your water if possible. The fish are looking good for only having them a day or so. You may find this useful http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showth...ters-for-Wilds.
Pat

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Originally Posted by Tshethar

Here's one random snapshot from the first day... they are still getting used to the lighting and therefore spending a lot of their time huddling but overall they are getting more comfortable and looking good. Adjusting to the new foods as well.

I defer to people with better eyes than me but I'm happy with their shape. I see a couple of them that probably had some ammonia burn or fin rot in their history (maybe when initially exported) so maybe at some point after they're well settled I might trim a couple of fins. But I haven't noticed anything else. Good times!

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The group looks pretty from all the way over here. Like you've pointed out, a few do look like they've experienced some ammonia burns or rot from looking at the condition of some of their fins. I think you're on the right track though, and with a good WC routine and some time I think you'll see them heal.

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Originally Posted by Tshethar

Here's one random snapshot from the first day... they are still getting used to the lighting and therefore spending a lot of their time huddling but overall they are getting more comfortable and looking good. Adjusting to the new foods as well.

I defer to people with better eyes than me but I'm happy with their shape. I see a couple of them that probably had some ammonia burn or fin rot in their history (maybe when initially exported) so maybe at some point after they're well settled I might trim a couple of fins. But I haven't noticed anything else. Good times!

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Nice lookin group and the pic looks great. Are you using tiles on the bottom and wall paper background? I like it..

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Originally Posted by Charlyc11

Nice lookin group and the pic looks great. Are you using tiles on the bottom and wall paper background? I like it..

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Yes to both (or almost re. the wallpaper)--never tried either before but thought I would experiment. I had some leftover tile in the shed that we had used for the bathroom and it looks kind of like gray fabric. I saw a video in which someone was using tile in a discus tank and I also liked the look. I need to siphon in the seams a little as I didn't silicone them together but the person in the video reportedly didn't have issues with mulm building up underneath.

And I had seen somewhere (I think on SD) about using frosted window treatment for a background. I've always spray painted but was looking at alternatives (like a Universal Rocks background) and decided this might be a middle way, or at least something different. I was also able to install it with the tank already in place... This is it:

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You did a nice job

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Originally Posted by Charlyc11

You did a nice job

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Thanks for the compliment. I went with this particular product instead of some other ones because the reviews didn't complain about the installation process. There is no adhesive so it can just be peeled off as desired. I did have to cut it down and then just wet the back of the tank with water and a little dish soap for lubrication, then installed, wet the back and used a squeegee to get the air bubbles out.

Overall I'm pretty satisfied with the aesthetics. I tried collecting some big pieces of driftwood but they didn't sink and were really too large so they came out. Part of me would like a little more of that for the look but not so much that siphoning becomes a pain. (I was using a bucket to pull out some uneaten food and waste and I went through 3 before I could get to everything...) We'll see how things develop.

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Originally Posted by Second Hand Pat

Hi Bill, your water parameters sound good. Be aware I have always experienced a mini-cycle the first week and manage that will a daily water change (around 50% in a 75). Also suggest aging your water if possible. The fish are looking good for only having them a day or so. You may find this useful http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showth...ters-for-Wilds.
Pat

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Thanks, Pat. Interesting about the GH/KH. Looks like it took 3 drops with the API kit for KH so I think I'm in a good spot. Need to replace these though to be sure. In any case it will be awhile before I worry about breeding, which is good. (With surely get excited if that happens but no real space for grow out!)

I did a very small cleaning/mini water change last night but so far, so good as far as the mini-cycle goes. I have been expecting that, too, but I may have preempted it a little with a ton of biological media and some pretty liberal dosing of ammonia while the tank was empty. I will definitely keep an eye on them during the first substantial WC and see how they act. I have aged water in the past but don't have much room for the barrel and last I checked didn't have a pH swing. I do prefilter my tap water with a 1 micron sediment filter and a carbon filter. That has made a big difference in how my domestics reacted in the past. Here's hoping I can keep the barrel in the shed instead of the (small) laundry room...

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Originally Posted by Tshethar

Here's one random snapshot from the first day... they are still getting used to the lighting and therefore spending a lot of their time huddling but overall they are getting more comfortable and looking good. Adjusting to the new foods as well.

I defer to people with better eyes than me but I'm happy with their shape. I see a couple of them that probably had some ammonia burn or fin rot in their history (maybe when initially exported) so maybe at some point after they're well settled I might trim a couple of fins. But I haven't noticed anything else. Good times!

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Those are such amazingly beautiful fishes. Will be following your tank thread Bill.

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Originally Posted by Sandip

Those are such amazingly beautiful fishes. Will be following your tank thread Bill.

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Thanks, Sandip! Appreciate it.

Great job. Beauties! II was thinking of getting some myself. As already stated the water changes will heal the fins, most likely from ammonia burn if you didn't plop them in rIght away after taking them out of the bags. No need to trim fins

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Originally Posted by dpt8

Great job. Beauties! II was thinking of getting some myself. As already stated the water changes will heal the fins, most likely from ammonia burn if you didn't plop them in rIght away after taking them out of the bags. No need to trim fins

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So far so good with them... would upload a short video from yesterday but laptop needs some time to sync with my phone... the thing with the fins is that they didn't get burned this time, but they showed some irregularities from what I assume was a prior burn (or maybe a bite, but less likely).

I'm always curious what people do when acclimating as it can vary... I've done different things myself but this time before I opened the bags I took some tank water and mixed in some Seachem Safe and some methyl blue I had laying around so that any ammonia or nitrite that might become more toxic when the bag opened wouldn't likely be an issue. I probably could have plopped and dropped them as my pH is 7.1 and my TDS are low, but figured I'd give them some time to adjust to it over an hour or so.

Some of their fins have been a little cloudy but not really showing white on the tips or ends, just some unevenness on a few of them that isn't a big deal. If I ever trim, it will just be for symmetry and I don't plan on it until they are really well settled.

I did have one who darkened a little and had a "discus pimple" after a couple of days, though. I had some concern for him but did a water change and a wipe down, and noticed that there are nooks and crannies in the new setup where uneaten food could collect. (E.g., between, in, and around the pleco caves for one thing. There is an L201 "snowball" who came with...) Once I figured that out and cleaned up well, he is back to looking good again.

One week since these guys arrived. A little slow with the video but here are a few pics... here's the group:

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It has been really tempting to feed these guys a ton, and I have been. About 5x/day, though nothing super messy. Three kinds of pellets 3-4 times in the morning into the afternoon, and then Hikari freeze-dried bloodworms and Al's FDBW in the evening.

So far the water changes have gone well. I have learned in the past that huge percentage changes sometimes aren't appreciated so the largest I've done so far is 50%. Went well yesterday--fish weren't too spooked and didn't seem to huddle more than normal afterwards. The maintenance is a little time-consuming with the decor (at least compared to bare-bottom growout tanks) and with one tweak I've made, but probably sustainable.

Here is a look at something I am doing with my incoming tap water.... first the flow-through "HMA" filter (that I learned about on SD). Very cheap on Amazon, plus some brass quick-connectors (lots available, including Python branded ones). Been using this for years and my fish looked noticeably happier after WCs when I started doing so:

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I also had an Aqua Ultraviolet 15w UV laying around and I decided to integrate it into the setup through a closed loop, using some cheap quick disconnects and a small Sicce pump that can run in-line. I added the same type of disconnect to my Python so I can run my fresh water through the UV before it enters the tank...

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It exits through the Eheim "lily pipe" in the last photo... bought an intake strainer to go with it that has a Poret foam prefilter on it, which I keep running in between the water changes. At minimum it will help with water clarity, and ideally will give me a layer of insurance in case some sort of pathogen gets going in the system.

Meanwhile, this is the fish that had a pimple a few days ago. You can see a small blemish on his side but happy to say he's looking good. And getting a close up, I'm also optimistic about seeing some better-looking spots on him in the future! (P.S. Will remember to take all pics in landscape mode from now on. ;))

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Bill looking very good. Nice to see you back in the game. Are you planning on deworming these?
AL

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Originally Posted by brewmaster15

Bill looking very good. Nice to see you back in the game. Are you planning on deworming these?
AL

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Thanks, Al. Happy with how they are doing so far. And yes, definitely planning to deworm. I've actually been meaning to re-read your QT thread but I have Prazi Pro, levamisole and metro on hand and was planning to go through that over the next several weeks.

I have seen a couple of them scratch their gill plate on a plant a few times, which has reminded me about trying to get things I can't see taken care of, at least to whatever degree is sufficient or possible....

Got a link for that "HMA" filter?

Thanks for sharing that Bill... stunning fish!

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Originally Posted by Vanman

Got a link for that "HMA" filter?

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Hi Gary,

I just went back and looked and found that the model I bought (an Aquaboon for $24.99 in 2018) is no longer available. (I spend another $15 on brass fittings to go with it.) If you search for "whole house filtration system" or something similar you can see some options... I was looking for cheap since it wasn't going to be doing full-time duty in my house. I saw one for $59 on Amazon that has two stages like mine.

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Originally Posted by FischAutoTechGarten

Thanks for sharing that Bill... stunning fish!

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Thanks, Peter!

A little sad news this morning as the L201 Snowball pleco that came in with the discus succumbed overnight after I dosed with PraziPro. :(:confused:

I thought I had plenty of surface agitation for aeration but I suppose that could have been an issue for him. Only other thing I can think of is that he got a slightly higher initial dose when I added it to the tank in front of the filter overflow... I was pretty careful about calculating tank volume and if anything I went a little light with the dosage.

The other conclusion I can make is that some fish are sensitive to it even though it is supposed to be safe and relatively gentle for everyone. The discus are fine.

Bummer, though. I had never kept one of these and was looking forward to having him for a long time.

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Originally Posted by Tshethar

Hi Gary,

I just went back and looked and found that the model I bought (an Aquaboon for $24.99 in 2018) is no longer available. (I spend another $15 on brass fittings to go with it.) If you search for "whole house filtration system" or something similar you can see some options... I was looking for cheap since it wasn't going to be doing full-time duty in my house. I saw one for $59 on Amazon that has two stages like mine.

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Thanks for looking.

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Originally Posted by Tshethar

A little sad news this morning as the L201 Snowball pleco that came in with the discus succumbed overnight after I dosed with PraziPro. :(:confused:

I thought I had plenty of surface agitation for aeration but I suppose that could have been an issue for him. Only other thing I can think of is that he got a slightly higher initial dose when I added it to the tank in front of the filter overflow... I was pretty careful about calculating tank volume and if anything I went a little light with the dosage.

The other conclusion I can make is that some fish are sensitive to it even though it is supposed to be safe and relatively gentle for everyone. The discus are fine.

Bummer, though. I had never kept one of these and was looking forward to having him for a long time.

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Bill thats a bummer. Prazi pro is known to deplete oxygen from what I have read elsewhere. I never use because it has so little prazi in it for what you pay. Ive Always used pure prazi.

Hard to say the cause I am afraid.. glad the discus are ok though.

Al

Thanks, Al. Yeah, there's no telling what happened but my best guess is the oxygen depletion. Hate when stuff like this happens but it's part of the hobby, unfortunately.

And you're right that it's good the discus are okay. I actually expected them to lose their appetite today and to darken, etc., as I seem to remember seeing that before with the meds but they actually seemed quite relaxed and were hungrier than I expected. I think they actually liked the treatment. And no tapeworms, so that's good.

Hi Bill, how is it going with your wilds?
Pat