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Color Inheritance
This was posted by Conrad and Winnie of Creativediscus
Let's say if we take two types of discus and crossed, the percentage of either one that hits more than 50% is the dominant one.
Dominant genes-( pigeon,white,ghost )
Any cross with pigeon almost all the offspring will inherit the black pigments hence we term pigeon as very dominant in passing the black pigment. As for the white it's the reverse,if you cross it with other discus not much of anything from the other discus turns out. The white are dominant in not having any color and pattern incorparated in the F1 crossed
Weak gene-Golden
Golden are the weakest gene in the discus pool. If you cross it with any strains you would probably get 85% of the other strain's gene and only 15% from the golden's gene in the F1. If you want to create a goldensnake( gold base ) you have to cross the F1 back with the golden again(choose the 14bars)and repeat till F3 before you can get a good looking goldensnake.
Unstable genes-any discus with snakeskin gene
Snake skin are mutation from turquoise and this strain can never be fixed hence we term it unstable because if you cross snakeskin with snakeskin,spottedsnake with spottedsnake you will get two types of offsprings the 14bars(snake type) and 9bars(throw back)
Recessive gene-Spotted
Let's say you have a pair of define spotted discus(leopard,R.S.G.spotted snake) you crossed it and produced F1 with beautiful spots than you crossed the F1 with F1 the F2 will still attain beautiful spots,but as you go on about F4 you will notice that the red spots starts to merge and join into red lines, this is what we term as recessive the more you crossed(in breeding)you loss it's potency of spots.To remedy this you have to cross back with a prominent spotted one.
Like to thank all those who have welcome us,we can feel the warm all the way here.
Hope this can help answer some questions from rnorca and pete.
Creativediscus
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Re:Color Inheritance
Thanks for a great subject Carol.
Iam new to this forum and find it very informative.
I live in Scotland and am interested in the methods of discus keeping around the world.
Thanks again and I look forward to more of your posts.
Mark
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I have noticed with my little fry that some have light bodies and some are darker with sort of little bars.The female being a Blue Turq and the male a Gold Pigeon.
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The light ones are pigeons and the dark ones with bars are turks. Your daddy pigeon must be a cross
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Thanks again Carol for all the great information.So the dark ones should be Blue Turqs and the lighter ones Pigeon crosses.I have some more questions for you sorry :)The other pair I have which are in the community tank at present are a Blue Diamond and an Orange Pigeon now if I can get them in their own tank and they can get it right what colours would the fry be.Also is it better to breed two of the same kind.
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If the pigeon is pure you will get 100% pigeon including blue panda pigeon (I think). If the pigeon is a cross you will get a mix of pigeon, blue turks and blue panda
I think it is better to breed two of the same kind. You get less pepper if you breed pigeon to pigeon. You lose the solid color if you cross a Blue diamond.
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Good stuff Carol, just what i was wanting to read.
Very interesting.
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:thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
8)
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may i ask u a question? is there any bad for throw backs?(9bars)
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Snakeskins will produce 9 bars and 15 bars, etc. It isn't bad. It's just not a snakeskin
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oh i got it. then it will turn out to be a turq?
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lets say for a pure golden which has 14 bars. then the throwbacks of the offsprings will become what?
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Goldens were derived from browns
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so the throwbacks will become brown rite? thnx
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Excellent info:
I hoped you might be able help me.
I finally got two of my discus to breed, the father I was told is a PB and the mother is a Golden Tangerine.
The babies look roughly 7/8 'golden tangerine' and 1/8 striped, (See pics.)
Any guess to what the father is?
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Both parents have to carry a red turk or brown gene for this pigeon and golden tangerine pair to produce a percentage of red turk or brown babies.
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Carol
It would be great to have a bit more indepth info on this subject where possible...
As you know i have to PB's some of the fry have I believe reverted back to Red Turks not sure...
How can you really define the parent proir to breeding, or is this not possible...
Cheers Wayne
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I can see faint vertical bars (actually peppering bars) on my PB crosses
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Hi Carol
Can you advise of any good books that go into deepth in the colour inheritance, and how to cross breed to try and get desired results...
Or is this just something you learn along the way...?
Cheers Wayne
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Shaifulla Yeng "Penang Discus" has a nice chapter.
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Carol have you got the ISBN number handy
Wayne
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I don't have the ISBN. I believe Oliver Lucanus at Below Water (banner at bottom of page) had them for sale
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you said that the pigeon gene was dominant....and that peppering was undesireable.
This may be a stupid questin....but this has sparked my curiosity.
Has anyone ever breed for the peppering to achieve a solid black Discus?
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I've never seen a picture of one, but it might work.
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In the original post to start this stream, it is mentioned that f4 genereations and beyond of RSG egress to wavy lines and must be bread back to keep the spots. If RSG is awild variety, why don't you see this in the wild caught RSG? In the wild it seems to me that they breed true. Any thoughts?
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Inbreeding is rare in the wild
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So inbreeding is the key word? Not just four generations of captive breeding but four generations from the same stock results in deterioration of the pattern. Am I following correctly?
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That was my understanding
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My SS pair is throwing 3 different kinds of babies. There are some red turqs, but the majority are SS, which is consistent with earlier postings on this thread. The third type has the same body color as the others, but no visible bars. Some have a very faint SS pattern. I'm assuming these are SS, but just short on the pigmentation for the vertical bars. Does this sound right?
Also, nearly all of the smallest fish have no bars, although not all the "no-bars" are small. In fact some are among the biggest. The small ones are all healthy, just not growing as fast as the others. My theory is that the gene for the bars is linked to some other gene that contains a growth factor. Therefore if the gene for bars is missing, there is also a higher frequency of poor growth. Any comments or experience?
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No bars - I wonder if there is some pigeon blood in the background then
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Do PBs have no bars? Some of the bigger ones with no bars are starting to get some blue color, particularly in the anal fin. Will be interesting to see how they turn out. Some also have a little darker brown edging to the dorsal and anal fin, but most are a uniform reddish golden brown.
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Pigeons have no bars - do you see any peppering on the barless ones?
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No peppering at all. Background color is very uniform across the entire body and fins. Some blue beginning to appear in fins. You can see pics of some of the babies in my posting under Buy/Sell topic. One baby in the pics shows no bars.
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I looked at your post - I bet your SS arre siblings and have blue diamond in the background
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I have fry from a pb female and a brown male. About 2/3 of the fry show bars, the rest do not, but do have some black specks. I would be interested in hearing what experiences others may have had with this cross. Is there any relation between the amount of speckling on the fry and the amount of pepper in an adult pigeon blood? What would one expect from these fry as far as adult coloring? Are the barred fry turks? brown? I really have no clue where the various strains come from or what crosses throw and would be interested in any information. Thanks.
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Heavily speckled fry will be heavily speckled adults. Your fry with bars could be turk, browns and some in between.
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You might be right, Carol. In my last batch of babies, there was one fish that was blue. It was the one very weak fish in the batch and remained very small, eventually dying at about 4 weeks. The presence of this fish points to a blue diamond as a recessive gene.