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Amanda's Discus Journey
Hi Everyone - I've been posting all over the forum for the last couple of days, so I hope you guys aren't sick of me yet! I figured I'd start this thread so I can try to keep useful information and advice from you guys all in one spot.
I'll try to keep this post short and sweet.
A few months ago, I made the mistake of impulsively purchasing 3 (2.5") Discus from my LFS. The fish developed Hex approx 2 1/2 weeks into having them. They refused to eat for 10 days until they eventually passed away one by one. I worked alongside with Cary Strong - he was a tremendous help and I am grateful for his assistance during that time. He really did help me try to save them.
Fast forward- after doing much research on this forum, I had realized plenty of things that I could have done differently with that first tank. I decided to give it another go.. I set up a 125g tank for the Discus that I would be ordering from Hans. After the tank was cycled and ready, I ordered 15, 4" Discus. These fish are absolutely stunning. They've been here since Thursday 2/19. They are eating beef heart for breakfast at 8am, then around 12pm they get frozen bloodworms, 2pm they get Blackworm flakes and then between 6-7pm they're eating beef heart again.
Here are my tank parameters:
Temp: 86F
pH: 6.8
Ammonia: 0ppm
Nitrite: 0ppm
Nitrates: 5-10ppm
GH: 5
KH: 1-2
(GH/KH is identical from the water in my tap vs. the water in my tank)
This is my first time trying to understand GH/KH... Some have told me that my GH/KH is fine and others told me that I should add crushed coral to my filter (thoughts?)..
Water Changes: Currently 30%-40% daily... Some have suggested 75% daily (thoughts?)..
I currently have white fuzzies growing on the inside glass - I've been turning my filters off during feeding and wiping the glass daily.
Filtration: 2 Tidal 110's, 3 sponge filters
Heaters: 2 Eheim 300w's with Bulk Reef Supply Heater control
Lights: 2 Fluval Aquasky's - 48"L each
Airpump: Top Fin 4 line output (I know, I know - I'm not a fan of this brand either).... - Originally was going to be a CoralLife SL-65 but the pump is just SO LOUD! So I'm returning it for a CoralLife UV sterilizer instead
Substrate: Thin layer of very fine gravel (the bag said sand but it's definitely a bit larger than sand)... I originally was going to do BB painted. I forgot to paint the bottom glass before I put the tank on its stand and filled it. I figured to cover up the mirroring on the bottom (I didn't know if this would stress the fish), that the best choice for the time being would be a thin layer of sand/gravel.
In 2 weeks, I will be treating the fish with Levamisole..... (as recommended by Cary)
THANK YOU ALL FOR READING!! Any input or helpful suggestions are greatly appreciated! :o:)
Here are some pics of the Fabulous 15! (My nickname for them).. :p
Please note: Heaters have been switched to Horizontal since the full tank photo was taken!
-Amanda
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Re: Amanda's Discus Journey
Hi Amanda,
Beautiful tank and discus! I wrote in one of your other threads about GH/KH. I mis-read and thought you had a KH of 4, which I thought might be good enough. If it really is only 1-2,then you may want to add something like the crushed coral. Sorry for any confusion.
Steve
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Re: Amanda's Discus Journey
Quote:
Originally Posted by
RogueDiscus
Hi Amanda,
Beautiful tank and discus! I wrote in one of your other threads about GH/KH. I mis-read and thought you had a KH of 4, which I thought might be good enough. If it really is only 1-2,then you may want to add something like the crushed coral. Sorry for any confusion.
Steve
+1. Nice tank and fish.
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Re: Amanda's Discus Journey
Thank you Steve! I originally did think it was 4 - I retested and concluded that it is in fact between 1-2. I was confused because the test said that I'd have my KH when the test went from blue to yellow. The test never showed blue (not even from the 1st drop into the vile).. 1st drop kept the water a clearish color, 2nd drop made it a clearish/yellow.. 3rd drop made it more of a solid yellow.. But the fact that it never went from blue to yellow (only clear to yellow), has me suspecting that it's closer to 1-2.
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Re: Amanda's Discus Journey
Quote:
Originally Posted by
14Discus
+1. Nice tank and fish.
Thank you Bill!
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Re: Amanda's Discus Journey
Any risk in adding too much coral at once? I've filled a large mesh media bag with it, rinsed it and am ready to add it to my basket.. Just wanted to make sure it doesn't have to be added gradually. Thanks in advance!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
RogueDiscus
Hi Amanda,
Beautiful tank and discus! I wrote in one of your other threads about GH/KH. I mis-read and thought you had a KH of 4, which I thought might be good enough. If it really is only 1-2,then you may want to add something like the crushed coral. Sorry for any confusion.
Steve
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Re: Amanda's Discus Journey
I've never had to use it so hopefully someone else with experience will reply.
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Re: Amanda's Discus Journey
Thank you! I'll hold off on adding it for now... It is ready to go though.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
RogueDiscus
I've never had to use it so hopefully someone else with experience will reply.
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Re: Amanda's Discus Journey
Hello Amanda and welcome, reading your post here about KH and I'm assuming you're using api test kit instructions seem a little confusing while it does say you should go from blue to yellow step 5 states that KH is determined by number of drops to turn test water bright yellow, I would try and clarify that maybe in speaking with api before I added coral, and as far as water changes go the more water you change at any one given time the more chance you have of upsetting your ph so I would check your water to see if you have ph swings and I would also check my tank ph against my water change source at every water change just to avoid any ph problems
Jeanne
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Re: Amanda's Discus Journey
Thank you Jeanne - YES!! The instructions are so confusing!! In one part it says wait until it turns from blue to yellow... and then in another section it says "bright yellow"... So I've been trying to look at youtube videos to see what others' test tubes look like... I'll keep testing/comparing and report back in a couple of days on that.
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Re: Amanda's Discus Journey
I'm suspecting that given your low pH, there is very little KH buffer in your water, which might mean the test reagent never gets to turn blue. This would make it all the more important to monitor your pH to be sure is doesn't start dropping rapidly, known as "crashing."
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Re: Amanda's Discus Journey
I can only speak for my situation as my PH is at 7.8 or so. My crushed coral is in a med/sm bag in the sump. My PH of both tank and aging barrel are the same. I want to keep my PH the same w a stable KH, so I put crushed coral in the sump so as the water in the tank slowly acidifies, the crushed coral is there to act on any increased acids. This happens very slowly and it’s my understanding that the coral will only leach out/buffer water w more acid. Your water being 6.8 is on the low side, so adding coral may increase both your PH and KH. Your situation is unique in that your water is on the acidic side to begin with. Honestly, I’m not sure how exactly how you should proceed. My “guess” is that putting a bag in your tank sump/filter would be ok as the crushed coral would be ‘busy’ trying to deal w the acids very slowly and, in so doing, would....more or less.....keep your tank water from becoming more acid. If you do frequent WCs, the coral would never really have time to alter the PH/KH that much. The crushed coral in the sump/filter is available to provide KH factors as needed. The people I’ve called to discuss this with real well with is Seachem support. They’ll have products to sell that increase KH, but you can learn from them and apply their knowledge imparted to your PH/KH situation. I don’t feel bad about doing this bc I do regularly purchase their Matrix, De-Nitrator, Stability, Paraguard, Prime, Trace products...among others. Perhaps others will chime in and give you a better direction. Again....in my particular situation, the crushed coral does exactly what I need bc my PH is high enough that the crushed coral really gets going only if my tank water heads in the acidic direction. At 7.8, the coral is there more as a fallback where yours might be more of a changer.
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Re: Amanda's Discus Journey
I add about 14 oz of crushed corals in a mesh bag and insert it into the Aquaclear 110 HOB filter to stabilize the Ph.
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Re: Amanda's Discus Journey
Just tested everything again - so we'll say 18-19 hours after the 1st test.
Tank Results: 5 GH, 2-3KH (The result is definitely a 2/3 - it turned from blue to yellow today!!) - I normally do my water changes in the mornings - I haven't done mine yet today - I'm going to do it shortly. pH 6.8-7.0
Tap Results: 5GH, 2-3KH
The reason I'm writing 2-3 is because it went from blue, to a soft greenish/yellow, to a solid yellow... So It's somewhere between 2-3... Or just a 3.
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Re: Amanda's Discus Journey
Good. Glad the test was clearer today. Given the change began at 2, I would be inclined to use that as the value, since we're thinking it's on the low side anyway, and that you're planning to add coral.
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Re: Amanda's Discus Journey
Great - I'm thinking I had really bad lighting last night as I was testing so the "blue" color looked clear to me. I'm going to do my WC now... I'll retest everything same time tomorrow!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
RogueDiscus
Good. Glad the test was clearer today. Given the change began at 2, I would be inclined to use that as the value, since we're thinking it's on the low side anyway, and that you're planning to add coral.
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Re: Amanda's Discus Journey
Quote:
Originally Posted by
seanyuki
I add about 14 oz of crushed corals in a mesh bag and insert it into the Aquaclear 110 HOB filter to stabilize the Ph.
Yes.....now that you’ve redone testing and have some KH.....do as seanyuki suggests.
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Re: Amanda's Discus Journey
Thank you - so I guess my next question is - how much of a water change should actually be done daily? If I do too large of a change, the coral won't have time to work. I've been doing 30% WC's daily as suggested by Cary. Is this a good % to stick with? I check my parameters every morning before my WC and my ammonia & nitrite are always at 0. Nitrates have ranged from 5-20ppm but usually average 10ppm.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
14Discus
Yes.....now that you’ve redone testing and have some KH.....do as seanyuki suggests.
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Re: Amanda's Discus Journey
Go ahead w 30% WCs since u have some KH.....all should be fine. Just check your aged water so it’s similar to what’s in the tank. The crushed coral will just be there to add buffering keeping your PH stable. My earlier concerns were centered around your having 0 KH. You said u retested and had some, so you’re ok.
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Re: Amanda's Discus Journey
Thank you so much!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
14Discus
Go ahead w 30% WCs since u have some KH.....all should be fine. Just check your aged water so it’s similar to what’s in the tank. The crushed coral will just be there to add buffering keeping your PH stable. My earlier concerns were centered around your having 0 KH. You said u retested and had some, so you’re ok.
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Re: Amanda's Discus Journey
Amanda;
I suggest you focus on water changes and do not worry about pH or KH. I've seen discus raised successfully under a variety of conditions. The common thread with all of them was large water changes. At one point, the water pipe in front of my house was replaced and the chemical treatment they used to seal the pipes killed off most of my fishroom. I switched to pure R/O for four years and the fish grew fine and spawned regularly. My friend up the road has rusty water coming out of his well system. His discus grew spectacularly with daily 100% water changes.
I'm sure there's a perfect pH and a perfect KH, but fresh, clean water will account for the overwhelming amount of growth in your fish. The energy spent on tweaking water chemistry will produce far less satisfying results than just making water changes.
Good luck, Willie
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Re: Amanda's Discus Journey
Preferably do a water change (80%)one hour after feeding them the beef heart and siphon the leftover foods.Beef heart easily foul up the water.I use water pump to drain the water.Attachment 127192
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Re: Amanda's Discus Journey
I have a pump like this one too! I usually do my water change about an hour after their breakfast (9am or so)... I'm definitely missing some of the BH though during my vacuum.. I'm finding it later on in little nooks in the tank. I'm going to be switching them to BH once per day (instead of twice), because cleaning it is a real challenge and I'd rather be safe than sorry.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
seanyuki
Preferably do a water change (80%)one hour after feeding them the beef heart and siphon the leftover foods.Beef heart easily foul up the water.I use water pump to drain the water.
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Re: Amanda's Discus Journey
Day 7 of having the fish.... Husband is starting to love them... I walked downstairs and all I see is him walking by the tank and saying "Hi Guys, you love me, don't you?".. because they're following him around waiting to be fed breakfast... HAHAHA
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Re: Amanda's Discus Journey
Does anyone know what would cause my Discus to rapidly shake their caudal fin/ventral fin? I've noticed this behavior from a couple of the fish... They'll swim while twitching/flicking/shaking their tail or fin as if they're trying to get something off of them and then they stop and are totally fine... Has only happened a few times... I have found a couple of little white dots on my White Leopard's tail fins but I honestly don't think it's ick.... I'm going to try to snap a picture..
These are my white leopards.. and now I'm noticing one of them looks a little darker than the other? These are the only fish with the small white dots.
Also important to note - that the white Leopard's are not the fish that I see twitching... Could the twitching be a territorial thing?
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Re: Amanda's Discus Journey
Okay so something odd happened... They were all fine and then next thing you know, they're all huddled near the driftwood... a few of them start challenging each other (nipping, chasing)... one of my German Wonders turned dark brown and hid... I put food in the tank a few minutes later and everyone is back to normal and eating... Water parameters are fine...
Does the "twitching/vibrating/Shimmying" sound like it could be from challenging/territory disputes?
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Re: Amanda's Discus Journey
The twitching could very well be social/territorial or even mating rituals. Do they ever rub their bodies against your driftwood or make quick darting/flashing against anything?
Do look over very carefully the fish w white spots and others as spots on the body are harder to see. Now.....if these were my fish and I saw .....any......more of those white dots or those same fish even had just one more dot, I would tend to think it is Ich. The reason why I’d be rather concerned and very observant is bc, if it is Ich, treating it early is of paramount importance imho. Just out of curiosity......is your WC water temp exactly the same as your tank water temperature and have you introduced anything else to your tank like plants, snails, dither fish, or even Discus? Btw.....if it is Ich....you’ll have treat the entire tank and just remove the one or two fish w white spots. For every spot you see on the fish means there is likely 10-100x the number of free swimming younger forms of Ich you cannot see in the tank/gravel. Hopefully some others will chime in, but my gut tells me you do have the early signs of Ich....based mostly on the first of your three pics.....and I do wish I was wrong. Stay on top of this though and don’t fret, as Ich is indeed treatable and reading about the Ich lifecycle will greatly help you understand how to attack it.....and with what.
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Re: Amanda's Discus Journey
Bill - thank you for your response! I do notice the fish rubbing against each other, in fact, at least half of them are doing it. I thought it was mating rituals but I feel like they're too young for that? I'm no expert though! They don't ever just randomly dart around - the only time they dart is when I turn their lights on too quickly or turn them off too quickly. They don't rub against the walls of the tank or the driftwood either - just each other. I'll keep an eye on the white spots and see if any changes. I haven't introduced anything new into the tank and my WC temp is usually pretty identical to what's it the tank (maybe a half degree in either direction)..
Quote:
Originally Posted by
14Discus
The twitching could very well be social/territorial or even mating rituals. Do they ever rub their bodies against your driftwood or make quick darting/flashing against anything?
Do look over very carefully the fish w white spots and others as spots on the body are harder to see. Now.....if these were my fish and I saw .....any......more of those white dots or those same fish even had just one more dot, I would tend to think it is Ich. The reason why I’d be rather concerned and very observant is bc, if it is Ich, treating it early is of paramount importance imho. Just out of curiosity......is your WC water temp exactly the same as your tank water temperature and have you introduced anything else to your tank like plants, snails, dither fish, or even Discus? Btw.....if it is Ich....you’ll have treat the entire tank and just remove the one or two fish w white spots. For every spot you see on the fish means there is likely 10-100x the number of free swimming younger forms of Ich you cannot see in the tank/gravel. Hopefully some others will chime in, but my gut tells me you do have the early signs of Ich....based mostly on the first of your three pics.....and I do wish I was wrong. Stay on top of this though and don’t fret, as Ich is indeed treatable and reading about the Ich lifecycle will greatly help you understand how to attack it.....and with what.
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Re: Amanda's Discus Journey
Also wondering if I should bring the temp up to 87F as precautionary? It's currently at 86... Someone mentioned to me that ick cannot survive in 87F temps.....
Also want to add that I just went back through all of the photos I've taken of my fish and the 2 White leopards have had those teeny spots in the same locations on the tail since they arrived 7 days ago. If it were ick, at 86F, wouldn't it have rapidly spread by now?
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Re: Amanda's Discus Journey
Most forms of Ich do not live that high, but I’ve seen Ich at that temp. If it were I, I’d put temp to 90, treat w Paraguard with extra aeration as oxygen levels drop off w higher temps. This combination has worked for me great years ago. I also have Rid Ich Plus by Kordon should I need a one-two punch. Others will disagree w me and swear by heat alone and that’s fine. I’m just sharing how I’ve dealt with it years ago. Paraguard by Seachem is great stuff, is mild to fish and highly effective. One must, though, follow the directions and not deviate. Luckily, my supply of Paraguard has sat idle for the last few years......knock on wood.
Incidentally.....raising the temp may kill off .....most.....Ich, but its main goal is to speed up the life cycle of Ich so the treatment will have more time to act in the two stages of the Ich lifecycle vulnerable to meds. Interestingly, treatments do not act on the spots on fish or the egg mass stage in your tank bottom, just when the Ich is in its free swimming stage. IMHO, elevated temp w ....say Paraguard, is a great sure fire approach to dealing with Ich.
Yes....it would rapidly spread, but still takes time and, as I’m hoping in your case, it may just be getting started. Remember, too, that this organism multiplies in exponential factors. What may seem like a few now may quickly become a lot more.
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Re: Amanda's Discus Journey
I doubt it is Ich and hardly any symptoms on the body and most likely is gas bubble disease .
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Re: Amanda's Discus Journey
Gas bubble disease? Just looked it up- would you recommend that I keep the python hose above the water line while filling the tank rather than sticking the tube right into the water? Would that help?
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Originally Posted by
seanyuki
I doubt it is Ich and hardly any symptoms on the body and most likely is gas bubble disease .
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Re: Amanda's Discus Journey
Francis, I hope you are right. That’s why I suggested, early on, a very close examination of the body which is hard to do bc of the fish body coloring along with watching for increased numbers of spots.
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Re: Amanda's Discus Journey
Just sharing
An article from Rick Grange of Canadian Aqua farm..... 2. Gas Bubble Disease & How To Prevent It
http://stores.canadianaquafarm.com/articles/
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Re: Amanda's Discus Journey
Thank you both so much! Keeping an eye on these guys.. I'll post an update if/when I have one :)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
14Discus
Francis, I hope you are right. That’s why I suggested, early on, a very close examination of the body which is hard to do bc of the fish body coloring along with watching for increased numbers of spots.
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Re: Amanda's Discus Journey
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Acerrato
Gas bubble disease? Just looked it up- would you recommend that I keep the python hose above the water line while filling the tank rather than sticking the tube right into the water? Would that help?
I use water pump and a hose with garden attachments and a clamp to refill the tank.Attachment 127234Attachment 127235.....you could keep the python hose immerse in the tank.
HTH
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Re: Amanda's Discus Journey
The spots look viral to me .
Tons of angelfish have been seen with similar spots on the tail in particular and meds and temp made no difference .
The spots cleared up after several weeks of good water and food for the angel folks ..
I say breeding behavior for the twitching personally but can not be positive without seeing it ..
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Re: Amanda's Discus Journey
Thank you Tom!
Quote:
Originally Posted by
coralbandit
The spots look viral to me .
Tons of angelfish have been seen with similar spots on the tail in particular and meds and temp made no difference .
The spots cleared up after several weeks of good water and food for the angel folks ..
I say breeding behavior for the twitching personally but can not be positive without seeing it ..
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Re: Amanda's Discus Journey
One of my blue snakeskin's brought food over to my Red pigeon blood.... I haven't see this behavior yet - is this something that they actually do? The pigeon was swimming around in the middle of the tank while everyone else was eating BH from my hand.... Blue snakeskin swam over to the PB and spit out a big chunk of BH right in the PB's face....It looked like he was trying to feed her (or she was trying to feed him)?...
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Re: Amanda's Discus Journey
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Acerrato
One of my blue snakeskin's brought food over to my Red pigeon blood.... I haven't see this behavior yet - is this something that they actually do? The pigeon was swimming around in the middle of the tank while everyone else was eating BH from my hand.... Blue snakeskin swam over to the PB and spit out a big chunk of BH right in the PB's face....It looked like he was trying to feed her (or she was trying to feed him)?...
No.