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So ya wanna planted Discus tank?
It is the ultimate goal for a show tank. There is nothing IMO more satisfying than peering into a densely planted Discus inhabited aquarium.
That being said, I have a couple of questions for you...
1. Have you ever had a planted tank before?
2. Have you ever successfully raised Discus?
I ask these questions for the simple fact that each of them by themselves is a little bit of a challenge for the novice. At least one of these should have been tried, an a decent amount of success should have been accomplished before trying the other. I am not at all saying that the novice cant try both. Trying both at the same time will give a novice a definate perspective for what direction he or she really wants to take. Growing plants successfully, but having a hard time raising discus or growing discus, but having a hard time with the plants an algae issues.
Since this a discus forum, I will address the planted tank. There are high tech planted tanks as well as low tech planted tanks. I have been on both sides of the spectrum. Having a high tech planted tank is definitely alot more of a challenge than a low tech planted tank for several reasons.
1. High light (2.5 wpg or higher)
2. C02 system (regulator an solenoid)
3. A steady fertilizing regime (EI method)
A high tech planted tank evolves around the plants, an aquascape more than the fish. The goal is to achieve an award winning aquascape. There are exceptions, but very few. These tanks usually support small schooling fish such as tetras along with a clean up crew to keep any debris or algae cleaned up as much as possible. For more info on this philosophy check out this site. http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/
The low tech planted tanks are easier, less time consuming for a few reasons.
1. Low lighted tanks (less than 2 wpg)
2. No C02 or DIY C02.
3. Very little to no ferts at all.
The plants grow slower and this setup is a little more user friendly. The low tech setup is geared more toward the discus friendly atmophere. I would say biotope, but not many plants grow in a natural discus biotope.I will go into how to set up a planted discus tank a little later. I want to address a couple of issues first.
1. What size tank
2. How many discus
First...I would like to point out for the sake of this write up, Having a tank with discus an a few potted plants, does not come under the same circumstances as a low tech tank.
The bigger the tank the better for the fish. Plants will grow in any size tank, but the fish unfortunately wont. The rule of thumb is 1 Discus for every 10 gallons. Put in substrate an fill the tank half full of plants an that number decreases substantially. You can keep 5 discus in a 55G bare bottom with 50% WC's everyday, an grow them out to thier full potential. A 55G with 3" of substrate an heavily planted, the number of fish has reduced to a pair, or 3at the most. Three discus wont thrive in this environment. Most all know Discus are social schooling fish, an 3 is a recipe for disaster for 2 of them, unless one of them happens to pair with the other.
Personally I wouldn't have a planted discus tank with anything less than a 75G. This gives elbow room for the Discus in the tank to start a pecking order an establish their territories.5-6 discus would do fine in this environment if they were adults when introduced into the tank. Six being on the high end.
There are many people who dont really care to much about what the discus look like as long as they are healthy. Big eyes, football shaped, stunted, runted etc...doesn't matter. Thats fine, but this is a Discus forum. To these people I say, a lil bigger tank an let em thrive!
All this being said, I would like to address the way a low tech planted tank should be set up to accept the Discus you have grown out to highlight this show tank.
Growing out discus to their potential is great! Growing out discus to there potential to transfer them into a show tank is just that much better.
Lets say we start with a 75G tank. Whatever substrate you desire, it needs to be at least 3" deep. At least 2" in the front to 4" in the rear. This will give room for the long roots of background plants in the rear, an the 2" for foreground plants not needing the root depth.
Canister filters are better equipped to handle the larger size tanks, an deliver a better circulation than HOB's. Canister filters have come down in price lately, an give a much better bang for the buck sorta speaking.
The next step is to buy plants. When purchasing plants, buy alot!! The more you can plant in the tank the better. To start, the tank should be densely planted. Not just a few here an there but dense!
The reason is simple. The more plants you have sucking up nutrients, the less the algae will have to suck up.
This is an example of how I would initially plant a 75G tank.
12-20 various sword plants. (fert tabs under the roots)
12-20 crytps.
40 dwarf sags.
12 vals. (fert tabs)
12-20 hygro polysperma
These are extremely fast growing plants, an fair well in Discus temps. It is alot easier to take plants out, than to try an add plants to out compete the algae. The best part about these planted tanks are they are cycled as soon as you plant them if densely planted. The plants will actually thrive on the ammonia an nitrites. They need nitrates to thrive.
Once the tank has been planted, put in cardinals, black neons, or any compatible fish, an a clean up crew. Whatever you like, just compatible with Discus. Let it go for a couple of months. Grow out your discus in a different tank, or buy adults when the time comes. See how the tank is doing. If everything is growing great, an you dont see algae, it is time to move the Discus to their new home.
Take everything slow, an by no means rush putting discus into your new planted tank. Of course quarantine any new fish prior to introducing them into your planted tank.
HTH
-Mark-
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Re: So ya wanna planted Discus tank?
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Re: So ya wanna planted Discus tank?
I agree. Great writeup Mark! :thumbsup: Not a point in it that I would disagree with (kind of a backhanded compliment I know - but it IS a compliment!)
The only thing I would add is an opinion... potentially unpopular here, but I do believe is true...
Try your hand at plants BEFORE you try discus and plants. If you think you have discus down, and are ready to try both - I'll wager you will have a pretty hard time. Discus and plants is a challenge. If you are on this forum because you already have discus keeping down pat - great! Now try your hand at a simple, discus free (little tiny fish instead) planted tank. If you can pull that off, and learn the ropes in the process, then you are ready to try both.
And good luck! IMO a planted discus tank is a beautiful thing to behold. We need more of them!
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Re: So ya wanna planted Discus tank?
Just a great article.I am one of those who have planted high tech tanks for many years. As in anything I have made my errors and learned from them. It just becomes a game of balance. It is true when you first start you cant put enough plants in and I feel this were people get off to a bad start. I am one of those who has joined here to learn about discus so I can add them to my 90 gallon planted tank. I just feel the plants and discus (adults) make a great combination. thanks Ed
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Re: So ya wanna planted Discus tank?
Thank You kingsfan! I was bored.:D
Quote:
Originally Posted by
scolley
I agree. Great writeup Mark! :thumbsup: Not a point in it that I would disagree with (kind of a backhanded compliment I know - but it IS a compliment!)
The only thing I would add is an opinion... potentially unpopular here, but I do believe is true...
Try your hand at plants BEFORE you try discus and plants. If you think you have discus down, and are ready to try both - I'll wager you will have a pretty hard time. Discus and plants is a challenge. If you are on this forum because you already have discus keeping down pat - great! Now try your hand at a simple, discus free (little tiny fish instead) planted tank. If you can pull that off, and learn the ropes in the process, then you are ready to try both.
And good luck! IMO a planted discus tank is a beautiful thing to behold. We need more of them!
Thanks Steve. IMO though, a planted tank can be as complicated as anyone wants to make it. Just because you have plants in a tank, it doesn't have to he hard. Low tech planted tanks pretty much take care of themselves if planted densely enough and light is minimized to 8 hours or less. :)
Quote:
Originally Posted by tacks
Just a great article.I am one of those who have planted high tech tanks for many years. As in anything I have made my errors and learned from them. It just becomes a game of balance. It is true when you first start you cant put enough plants in and I feel this were people get off to a bad start. I am one of those who has joined here to learn about discus so I can add them to my 90 gallon planted tank. I just feel the plants and discus (adults) make a great combination.
Thanks Ed.
Lighting is also an issue alot of people over look. They keep the lights on to long cause they just cant tear their eyes away from the tank long enough.:) People just setting up a planted tank shouldn't really leave their lights on longer than 6-8 hours.
I hear it from my wife all the time when the lights go off on my tank at 6:30 each day. She thinks its a living room lamp!:p
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Re: So ya wanna planted Discus tank?
I totally agree with what Mark said, as well. I've been struggling with a high light, high tech 55 gallon Discus tank, now for more than a year. Only slowly have I begun to win the algae battle. That Clado will do anyone in! The rest of the algae species are a piece of cake, compared to that stuff!
I raised and bred Discus for more than 40 years, and I have to say that the planted tank is the hardest thing I've done, by far! Much more work than the routine Discus tank cleaning and water change.
I do think it took me longer than a year to learn Discus (can't remember anymore--something that happens with old age I guess), so I figure that a year into the planted tank, and I'm almost there, isn't all that bad. Of course, I didn't have the internet when I started keeping Discus!!
I'm almost ready to take pics and show people the result of my battle. Just a week more for my latest additions to "take" and then, the end of my wild algae journey.
Al Light
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Re: So ya wanna planted Discus tank?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Alight
I totally agree with what Mark said, as well. I've been struggling with a high light, high tech 55 gallon Discus tank, now for more than a year. Only slowly have I begun to win the algae battle. That Clado will do anyone in! The rest of the algae species are a piece of cake, compared to that stuff!
I raised and bred Discus for more than 40 years, and I have to say that the planted tank is the hardest thing I've done, by far! Much more work than the routine Discus tank cleaning and water change.
I do think it took me longer than a year to learn Discus (can't remember anymore--something that happens with old age I guess), so I figure that a year into the planted tank, and I'm almost there, isn't all that bad. Of course, I didn't have the internet when I started keeping Discus!!
I'm almost ready to take pics and show people the result of my battle. Just a week more for my latest additions to "take" and then, the end of my wild algae journey.
Al Light
Cant wait to see the pics Al!! :thumbsup:
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Re: So ya wanna planted Discus tank?
Well I suppose its a good write up of sorts :D (ok j/k)
Been trying to convert a few to the dark (green) side now for a year or so, posts like this can only help :) Feel the force etc.. etc...
One comment here is that many people when starting out seem terrified at putting more than one or two plants in. I cannot stress enough that its almost impossible to put too many in when first starting out. I often put loads of stem plants in and "harvest" them as the tank settles, allowing the real plants to take over in time. This way it keeps algae probs to a minimum ime.
Good job Mark.
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Re: So ya wanna planted Discus tank?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
pcsb23
Well I suppose its a good write up of sorts :D (ok j/k)
Been trying to convert a few to the dark (green) side now for a year or so, posts like this can only help :) Feel the force etc.. etc...
One comment here is that many people when starting out seem terrified at putting more than one or two plants in. I cannot stress enough that its almost impossible to put too many in when first starting out. I often put loads of stem plants in and "harvest" them as the tank settles, allowing the real plants to take over in time. This way it keeps algae probs to a minimum ime.
Good job Mark.
Thank you Paul. That means alot coming from you! :)
I dont want to convert anyone. Maybe give my .02 on the subject an everyone can take it for whats its worth.
Ditto on the stem plants, an a lot of them. I have had fish (not discus) pressed up against the glass there were so many plants in there. ;)
Mark
Thats
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Re: So ya wanna planted Discus tank?
Great write-up and good advice above.
A low tech set-up i.e non CO2, is not necessarily the easier option. One thing that is somewhat of a misconception, is that with added CO2, it it is more difficult. Yes there are some 'high-tech' elements that are readily available. One typically has greater control over the plant growth requirements, and is able to provide plants with the necessary CO2 that allow them to grow and out compete algae.
Often one thinks CO2 is merely an added complication and large expense, but if one considers a planted tank, by ensuring you get healthy growth from the start will ensure you save in the long run. Plants can get expensive, treating for algae is a pain - so do it properly from the start.
PATIENCE - allow the plants to stabilize prior to adding any Discus. Give it 2 months at least.
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Re: So ya wanna planted Discus tank?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
senso
Great write-up and good advice above.
A low tech set-up i.e non CO2, is not necessarily the easier option. One thing that is somewhat of a misconception, is that with added CO2, it it is more difficult. Yes there are some 'high-tech' elements that are readily available. One typically has greater control over the plant growth requirements, and is able to provide plants with the necessary CO2 that allow them to grow and out compete algae.
Often one thinks CO2 is merely an added complication and large expense, but if one considers a planted tank, by ensuring you get healthy growth from the start will ensure you save in the long run. Plants can get expensive, treating for algae is a pain - so do it properly from the start.
PATIENCE - allow the plants to stabilize prior to adding any Discus. Give it 2 months at least.
Hey senso... I agree with you 100%. Having c02 is a great tool for controling algae.
It was not my intention when I wrote this thread to push c02 on anyone. Its was SIMPLY to give the members here a guideline to start a "low tech" planted Discus tank. :)
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Re: So ya wanna planted Discus tank?
The article does not push CO2. I think I am suggesting based upon my own experiences and that of many others, if you are concerned about adding CO2 - don't be. It can only be a major asset and avoid many weeks of algae issues. On the other hand low-tech (non CO2) works too, it just requires one to do things more slowly as the plants take longer to establish
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Re: So ya wanna planted Discus tank?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
senso
The article does not push CO2. I think I am suggesting based upon my own experiences and that of many others, if you are concerned about adding CO2 - don't be. It can only be a major asset and avoid many weeks of algae issues. On the other hand low-tech (non CO2) works too, it just requires one to do things more slowly as the plants take longer to establish
I am fixin to swap over to to a low tech planted tank in the next few weeks, an I will include the c02 as a suppliment as well just for the reason you just mentioned. :D ;)
I am getting tired of fertilizing an having to trim plants every week!! :)
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Re: So ya wanna planted Discus tank?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
pcsb23
One comment here is that many people when starting out seem terrified at putting more than one or two plants in. I cannot stress enough that its almost impossible to put too many in when first starting out.
Ummm, Paul...
As long as you don't put in so many plants that there isn't any more water for the fish to swim through :).
Tina
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Re: So ya wanna planted Discus tank?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
bastalker
I am fixin to swap over to to a low tech planted tank in the next few weeks, an I will include the c02 as a suppliment as well just for the reason you just mentioned. :D ;)
I am getting tired of fertilizing an having to trim plants every week!! :)
That could be an interesting option for set-up, the thing is once you stop CO2, the entire system will need to adjust.
Another option would be
- plant tank HEAVILY (as Paul advises) lights about 6 hours, at about 1.5wpg No WC,
- week 2 begin to add clean up crew (ottos), Add floating plants, No Wc only top up
- - week 3 add some shrimp, NO WC
- week 4 more clean up crew, NO WC begin to increase lights to 6hrs
- week 6 add some schooling fish if desired (continue topping up only and increase lights to 8 hrs)
- week 8 add any other fish you are planning to add and do a 20% WC
- week 12 add the large inhabitants (try lights at 8hrs per day going fwd)
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Re: So ya wanna planted Discus tank?
Here's a startup schedule that worked pretty well for me in this last tank, my first discus tank. I should mention that this is not completely generic because I used ADA Aquasoil (loaded with ferts) and my tap water has a pretty good bit of N&P in it. Early on, in a new tank I think that's bad - you want to keep the water column lean. But later, a water change for me winds up adding a lot needed macros. But that is just my water. So... here's the schedule that worked very well for me.
Tanks Startup Principles
1) Gradual addition of light
2) Gradual increase in macros, up to constant low level
3) Gradual increase in micros
- iron free micro only
4) Gradual increase in iron
5) Aggressive algae removal initially
6) AS provides most of the macro needs for rooted plant (except K & C)
7) Keep all nutrients low, but never bottom out (daily fertilization)
8) Don't introduce fish until tank is ready (algae eaters first)
9) Aggressive early water changing
This gantt chart below really shows only 16 weeks. But those are the critical weeks. My plan was really that at the 16 week mark, everything would be stable, with no additional changes in tank maintenance routine required. That is, until the AS has run it's course, and that will naturally require some changes in the fert schedule.
And please note, this does not even include the point where I added discus. That was about 1 month after this schedule completed - lot's to be said for making sure that tank is stable! Hope this helps...
http://www.colley.org/images/Kahunas...20Schedule.jpg
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Re: So ya wanna planted Discus tank?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
tpl*co
Ummm, Paul...
As long as you don't put in so many plants that there isn't any more water for the fish to swim through :).
Tina
I know it almost seems sacrilege but you want to feel as though the fish are pressed against the glass when you first plant it. I use a lot of cheap stem plants and over time they get removed (hence why I use cheap ones).
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Re: So ya wanna planted Discus tank?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
senso
That could be an interesting option for set-up, the thing is once you stop CO2, the entire system will need to adjust.
Another option would be
- plant tank HEAVILY (as Paul advises) lights about 6 hours, at about 1.5wpg No WC,
Quote:
Originally Posted by bastalker
The next step is to buy plants. When purchasing plants, buy alot!! The more you can plant in the tank the better. To start, the tank should be densely planted. Not just a few here an there but dense!
The reason is simple. The more plants you have sucking up nutrients, the less the algae will have to suck up.
This is an example of how I would initially plant a 75G tank.
12-20 various sword plants. (fert tabs under the roots)
12-20 crytps.
40 dwarf sags.
12 vals. (fert tabs)
12-20 hygro polysperma
Just cant stress it enough. :D
Quote:
- week 2 begin to add clean up crew (ottos), Add floating plants, No Wc only top up
- - week 3 add some shrimp, NO WC
- week 4 more clean up crew, NO WC begin to increase lights to 6hrs
- week 6 add some schooling fish if desired (continue topping up only and increase lights to 8 hrs)
- week 8 add any other fish you are planning to add and do a 20% WC
- week 12 add the large inhabitants (try lights at 8hrs per day going fwd)
Quote:
Originally Posted by bastalker
Once the tank has been planted, put in cardinals, black neons, or any compatible fish, an a clean up crew. Whatever you like, just compatible with Discus. Let it go for a couple of months. Grow out your discus in a different tank, or buy adults when the time comes. See how the tank is doing. If everything is growing great, an you dont see algae, it is time to move the Discus to their new home.
Quote:
Lighting is also an issue alot of people over look. They keep the lights on to long cause they just cant tear their eyes away from the tank long enough. People just setting up a planted tank shouldn't really leave their lights on longer than 6-8 hours.
We are definately on the same page. :D :D
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Re: So ya wanna planted Discus tank?
Hi ya Steve! That is a great chart for sure! Alot of valuable info on it. I would definately point anyone who was interested in a high tech tank in your direction! :)
Since a planted tank is such a widely diversified subject with thousands of variables, I would like to keep this particular thread as a low tech planted tank. No c02 (unless you would like the expense), no micros, no macros, maybe a few fert tabs here an there for swords, an fish food for fertilizing.
I really dont want to start confusing the issue with high tech, low tech etc...:) It wasn't my intention when I started the thread. It was geared more to the discus entusiast, planted tank novice to combine both without alot of frustration. :)
Steve you know I value any input you have, so dont stop now!! Just keep it low tech...:D ;)
Mark
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Re: So ya wanna planted Discus tank?
I dont know if this belongs here or not, but if we are talking low tech maybe we should mention how many watts of light are we talking about on any given tank a 55,90,125,etc. I feel lighting is so important. Also some type of design set up. Were does a center piece go or your main focal point and it should not be in the center of the tank. From what I have read on this site most people here do not have planted tanks so they really need to start from the begining. Just some ideas thanks Ed
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Re: So ya wanna planted Discus tank?
Hi ya Ed...
1 1/2 watts per gallon is a very good starting point for a low tech tank. 2 wpg is teetering on the border for using c02.
Design issues are really up to the type of tank you have, an the design you are looking for. A couple of things to consider are,
1. How will I plant this tank to make it easy to clean an vacuum. For the first 2-3 months it will not be a problem since no discus will be in there yet. This is why so much attention was being addressed to heavily planting the tank to begin with. When the discus finally go into the the tank, excess plants that are not wanted should have been removed. The swords, sags, crypts etc... should have pretty much established themselves hopefully in a spot where you dont want to move them. Yes you CANmove plants afterwards but a couple of things you need to keep in mind.
a. If you move swords after putting fert tabs under their roots, GW will be the result 90% of the time.
b. Moving crypts usually makes them melt again.
There are ways around both of these issues, but I will not get into here. It would be better in the long run if you planted them in a place where you think they will be permanent.
2. Having a focal point off center. If a large piece of driftwood for instance is your center piece. Place it off center, an build plants around it. I can get into triangulation, an division of plants in a planted tank, but again, I wont here. For the novice, a simple easy to clean biotope for their discus will be sufficient. The thing to consider is to make the tank flow.
For someone wanting to try a planted discus tank. I cant stress enough to take your time planting this tank, an be in no rush what soever to add your discus to it. The longer you can wait for the move the better established your plants will be, an the happier your discus will be once you put them in there.
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Re: So ya wanna planted Discus tank?
Hmmm, this thread is timely. Looks like the experts/advanced wetgreenthumbs have bitten as well!
I think to begin a discus planted, it really matters on the person's expectation, budget and time to spare. This is because it's not going to be cheap and as mentioned the minimum tank sizes, cost of plants, equipment etc.
They like to say planted people have to learn a lot more. It's true if you want to have in depth understanding but you can also just skim the surface and buy almost everything from ADA and take your time understanding how everything works.
That said, I like Steve's approach as his notes are detailed and his tank is worth copying! er... emulating! :D Hey, Kingborris and Bastalker's are da bomb well! :D
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Re: So ya wanna planted Discus tank?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
bastalker
Steve you know I value any input you have, so dont stop now!! Just keep it low tech...:D ;)
Except for the CO2, that's not "high" tech. If I removed the CO2, and was dosing Excel instead, I would not change a thing. FWIW, that was designed for a tank getting less than 1.5 WPG. Swap out that CO2 with Excel dosing, and you've got a great setup plan for a low tech tank.
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Re: So ya wanna planted Discus tank?
I probably wouldn't dose KN03, K2S04, KH2P04 in a low light tank with different varieties of echinodurus, an crypts in it. Fert tabs would be sufficient since they are root feeders, the crypts would do fine with the heavy fish feedings.
Thats all I would consider in my own discus tank. I wouldn't even do crypts.This way fert tabs here an there are just fine. More natural looking as well with some well placed driftwood. That IMO would be the easiest way to set it up an it look good. I am going to do this in a couple of weeks an show you what exactly I am talking about. I need a place for about 4 SS's anyways
As mentioned earlier, it really depends on what you want your tank to look like, how much money you want to spend etc...Do you want fast growing stem plants in your tank, anubias, crypts, an various others plants? Some might. Some might not care if it looks natural or not. We had a discussion a while back about fertilizing with heavy fish feedings, or EI in a low tech tank. The consensus was mixed. But the replies from the ones who kept low tech tanks were that they dont fertilize, they just feed the fish very good.
Dosing fertilizers in a low light tank will get a novice in a hurry pretty quick even with c02. I have seen alot of people, an I mean alot go out an buy all the expensive c02 systems, reactors, diffusers, etc...Then get a tank full of algae an simply give up. I was one of them who almost did. :)
Mark
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Re: So ya wanna planted Discus tank?
Hi Mark, I am setting up a 45 gallon low tech, planted tank. This will be non discus, just some angels. Can I use pool filter silcia sand. I have heard pros and cons, what do you think thanks Ed
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Re: So ya wanna planted Discus tank?
Sure you can Ed. Many people with planted tanks have used it. :)
I planted my 55G some time back with play sand from Home depot. I put a small layer of gravel in an put the sand over that an everything grew great. Easier to keep clean, an easier to plant in.
Use a fert tab under the sand for any rooted plants you plan on keeping though.
Some claim anarobic pockets will form in places, or it compacts. I only had it in there for 1 1/2 years an never had problems, but thats not to say it wont over time. HTH
Mark
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Re: So ya wanna planted Discus tank?
Nice thread. So much good info!! This should have a sticky. I have been raising discus for a year and half. I have wanted to convert my 180 gallon to a planted discus tank. It's nice to see someone else do one and provide helpful info to others instead of saying it's too hard. I just got a 110 gallon tank to house my discus while I change out my 180 gallon. Dan from Gulf Coast Discus has been extremely helpful with the planning of the tank. I'll keep you guys posted
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Re: So ya wanna planted Discus tank?
This is a great thread with so much info. Thanks to you all. It really should be a sticky. About the root tabs under swords and vals? should they be directly under them or just in the area? Thanks
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Re: So ya wanna planted Discus tank?
A lot of good info.
I will sticky it:)
How often do you put in a fert tab/stick under the roots?
Thanks
Ardan
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Re: So ya wanna planted Discus tank?
Quote:
Originally Posted by sunflowerjoela
About the root tabs under swords and vals? should they be directly under them or just in the area? Thanks
You should try an get the fert sticks as close to under the roots as you can. Also, push them down into the subsrtate a good 2-3 inches. It will avoid leaching into the water colum this way.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ardan
How often do you put in a fert tab/stick under the roots?
There is no real set time. Watch the plants, they will let you know when they need another one. If a leaf starts yellowing, it is a sign that a fert tab should be added again. Dont add another fert stick or tab under the plants unless they show you they need one.
hth
Mark
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Re: So ya wanna planted Discus tank?
Thanks bastalker for response. I use the flourish tabs and they say every 3 months. My plants have done really well since I did this. Where before they all just died. I don't have good lighting. I'm looking for some of the other plants listed here. Thanks again. :)
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Re: So ya wanna planted Discus tank?
Planted discus tank is rewarding, but if you just start by diving into the discus AND plants setup, be ready to lose alot of fish (which i did, felt horrible). Everything takes patience, even if you DO NOT have the time to wait for it, that's just how everything goes!
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Re: So ya wanna planted Discus tank?
It definitely can be a challenge. :)
I feel the biggest problem with people trying this out for the first time is just like you mentioned, starting out to fast. Not waiting till the tank and plants have had time to get established.
If you start off with the proper substrate, proper plants (where adding ferts to the water column is not necessary), let the plants establish themselves under proper lighting for 3-6 months. Add some expendable fish and see how the plants do with heavy feeding for a while. This will help get a balance with the fish and plants. Once you are confident, an everything looks like it is growing well, then put your prize possessions in there and remove the other fish you dont want. Preferably adults.
The one fish for every 10 gallons does not apply to a planted tank since plants an substrate can take up to as much as 30% of a tanks volume. Maybe a little more in a very densely planted tank with other occupants in there besides the discus.This is one reason a smaller planted tank under say 55G doesn't work that well with discus. This would reduce the amount of discus you can comfortably put into a planted tank. We all know discus do better in numbers. Another thing to consider is the smaller the tank, the quicker the water will fowl. Yes there are exceptions to every rule, but you should try to at least give yourself the upper hand.
You will want a very good cleanup crew to take care of whatever the discus dont. The last thing you want is uneaten food, an fish waste through the plants an substrate you cant reach during WC's to lay in the tank an rot. The plants will utilize this waste to an extent, but to much excess food an waste will foul the water fairly quickly
IMO this would be the easiest method to jump into a planted discus tank.
tc
Mark
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Re: So ya wanna planted Discus tank?
Dear all,
my name is Heiko Bleher and I saw the texts for planted Discus tank.
As some of you may know I have researched and worked with discus all my life – since the early 1950s - and most of the other freshwater fishes around the world (but that is not important, if you dont). And I showed many times in exhibitions and in international shows as well as in my recent book, how discus live. So I want to give you some advice to make your discus aquarium a biotope as to what the "king of the Amazon" deserves.
Mark made a lot of work here and wrote a long text, but I cannot suggest the following:
1. Do NOT buy alot of plants !
The less can plant in the tank the better. The tank should NEVER be densely planted. Discus will feal on another planet... (it is like when you displace an forest elephant into the desert).
2. Do NOT plant Cryptocoryne species in a discus aquarium (crypts are only found in Asia, were no discus lives, discus do not know what they are...) and do NOT plant Vallisneria, as they also do not know them and can get tangeled up in it.
What you should do for a 75G tank:
give very fine white sand into it as substrate. If you want a few white ROUND rocks, ok, but your most important decoration is a beautiful piece of driftwood, and/or a large root (it can stick out of the water) - but all the wood must be watered for at least 1-2 weeks (a month is better and water changes adviced to do in between).
If you insist to have plants, than only some large sword plants (ie Echinodorus bleheri and/or E. grandifolius or E. grandiflorus which grow out of the water as in nature) and if you want some section with dwarf plants, than E. tenellus or similar dwarf sword plant. The only other plants I can suggest are: floating plants, like Eichhornia crassipes, Pistia stratiotes, Lemna and/or Azolla, or Salvinia. But note that for most of these floating plants the top of the tank must be open - as in nature and good light above.
I suggest for discus NO CO2, no cardinals, black neons, for compatible rather some Geophagus, Uaru, Biotodoma, angelfishes and maybe some Leporinus. Corydoras only if you really wnat them, than a small group.
And as Mark said correctly: Take everything slow, an by no means rush putting discus into your new planted tank. Of course quarantine any new fish prior to introducing them into your planted tank.
All the very best
Heiko Bleher
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Re: So ya wanna planted Discus tank?
Mr. Bleher, having you post here is quite an honor. Thank you. I've got your recent book up in my room, with goodness knows how many pages book marked. And I'm anxiously awaiting your next one!
Could you could help us with a bit of clarification with regard to your post...
Are you suggesting that these are absolute rules for keeping discus with plants?
Or are you making these suggestions with regard to creating an environment for discus that is the most like their natural environment?
Thanks in advance.
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Re: So ya wanna planted Discus tank?
Hey Steve, you think he had a hand in the creation of this tank?
http://showcase.aquatic-gardeners.or...0&vol=3&id=141
I think this is what he meant!:)
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Re: So ya wanna planted Discus tank?
Good catch Ed! That tank is an inspiration to me. And Jeff Senske has gone on record stating that the tank was named after the things he learned from Mr. Bleher about keeping discus in planted tanks.
But my own, very limited experience, has demonstrated to me that discus can thrive - if mating like rabbits is an indication of thriving - in habitats somewhat unlike their natural environments.
So while it would appear that conditions other than what was described previously by Mr. Bleher can still keep discus happy, and present something beautiful to the eye, that description may have been specifically for reconstructing an accurate biotope. If so, it stands as not only an excellent clarification, but also a standard by which we can understand what our fish will feel "most natural" with.
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Re: So ya wanna planted Discus tank?
Heiko,
What type of Geophagus's do you see with Discus in the wild?
Thanks,
Chris
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Re: So ya wanna planted Discus tank?
Steve....You need no inspiration my friend. You have it down to a science when it comes down to havin discus in a planted tank!! You just have the planted tank thing down whether it has has discus in it or not!
It jus happens ta have discus in it. Well it is a trash can thing at the moment, but Steve....If ya got yer discus spawnin in a trash can, I jus cant wait ta see what they will do in the next tank yer gonna be settin up...:D
tc
Mark
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Re: So ya wanna planted Discus tank?
Thank you Mark! But I am NO EXPERT.
What would be beneficial though, if we can get another moment of Mr. Bleher's time, is if we can get a call as to whether his last post is in reference to discus keeping in general, or discus keeping with plants (and fauna) that are true to the environment they are found in.
This may sound like I'm splitting hairs, but I'd like to think that I'm not... My fish are are happily copulating in an environment that could not be further than their natural habitat. But it seems to make them happy. And it is pleasing to my eye.
Mr. Bleher is aware, from a lifetime of professional observation an documentation, that our planted discus tanks are FAR from what discus encounter in their natural environment. So the question remains outstanding:
Are the guidelines previously provided by Mr. Bleher appropriate to discuss keeping in general?
Or do they only apply to those practitioners who are compelled to replicate, as closely as possible, those conditions from which our beatiful fish arise?