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Introduction to The Heckel Project ...
Hi all,
At the request of Heckel afficinados We have added a special section that we have called
THE HECKEL PROJECT
All information on Symphysodon discus can be posted in this section. Questions and information on other wild species or domestic discus should not be posted in this section, but in the other sections of the forum where they best fit.
Our purpose is to build an informational database on the requirements of wild Heckels and their biology. It is hoped that with such a knowledge base hobbyists and breeders may be able to captive breed Symphysodon discus in a consistent manner.
All hobbyists with an interest in this project are asked to share their research, knowledge, and experience in this endeavor. It is a project open to everyone.
Please use this section as you would any other section of the forum, and keep in mind that all forum rules apply here.
Thanks and please wish us luck in this endeavor.
The Simply Team
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Re: Introduction to The Heckel Project ...
I have kept Heckel's in the past out of an interest in the species simply because I share the same last name. I never had them breed (trio of Blue Headed Heckel's from Jack Wattley 1996) but raised them successfully. I found they liked baby guppies fed to them when they reached the 4 inch size. They were much more difficult to feed. They certainly got even more finicky after I began feeding them live foods.
I kept them in a low light aquarium, 29 gallons, ph of 6, pure RO with discus trace and RO Right at 88 degrees Celcius. I was not experienced enough at breeding and had no real interest in breeding them at the time.
Anyhow, hope the feedback helps.....
Joseph
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Re: Introduction to The Heckel Project ...
Al, I love heckels. Have never had any but would LOVE to try some. Hopeful one of these days Andrew and I can help on this project. Love reading all the information on them though. I always love a good challenge.;)
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Re: Introduction to The Heckel Project ...
Al,
First off, thank you for calling Heckels by their rightful name, I have a real problem with sites that refer to Symphysodon heckel or S. heckeli, and there are an amazing number of sites that don't seem to know they are called Symphysodon discus, even ones that should certainly know better.
I just started keeping S. discus, so this area is of great interest to me. While at the moment I have young S. discus and am struggling just to keep them healthy, breeding is why I keep fish. So thank you yet again for creating this area.
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Re: Introduction to The Heckel Project ...
Hi Polarbear,
If I have this right you have just begun to build a group of S. discus and they are still subadults. I remember they/some were in or almost out of quarantine along with some other wild discus. They are best just kept with their own kind for many reasons but they do not seem to compete well with other discus. They are less assertive and they really like to graze for their food rather than bolting it down. It as if the hunt is as important as the finding of their food.
I feed mine a lot of live blackworms but they also are fed earthworm pellet and flake. They also get algae wafers, Tetra Color Bits, frozen bloodworms.
I would not hesitate to offer them live blackworms to get them to eat. After that you can place other food and blackworms in a container on the bottom.
They seem to quickly become used to finding food in the container on the bottom. Young fish should not take long to train to a variety of foods.
As soon as they are gaining weight and will take pellet food start soaking the food in your favorite de-worming drug(s). That seems to help them gain weight lost. As others have pointed out wild discus are not usually full of food when they are caught and then they endure the distribution ordeal. They are a resilient fish all things considered and I think you are already a skilled wild discus keeper. You may be closer than you think to getting them there. It takes several months IME, for them to become well established.
I thought it looked like yours were in very good condition basd on your photos awhile back. I have had many that seemed like they were near death only to recover with the kind of perceptive TLC I can tell you have.
Larry Waybright
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Re: Introduction to The Heckel Project ...
Fantastic groundwork you've done on the project to get to critical mass, Larry ! Top notch . Congratulations and all the best.
Dave
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Re: Introduction to The Heckel Project ...
I would love to see the water parameters used from any of you that have bred them as well as the frequency of water changes, temperature & feeding schedule.
I found my discus were more social when kept with other smaller domestic discus. Has anyone found succes in breeding them with other wild Heckels or did you use a domestic to induce the pairing? Has anyone force paired them successfully with other domestic discus?
All this talk about them now has me on a hunt for some blue headed sub-adults.
Joseph
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Re: Introduction to The Heckel Project ...
I keep mine with domestics... not to induce spawning or social behavior but to have more fish in one tank. The thought of breaking my Discus colony in 2 kind of disturbs me because they are the pride of my tanks and I keep them in my 125 show tank in my living room. If I move them they go to my bedroom where nobody sees them.
I agree that the domestic ones do make the Heckels more comfortable. I hope that IF I am lucky enough to get a pair that it will be a wild with a wild!
That said, it seems that I have early pairing going on im my tank and the Male Heckels are the ones looking for a mate. They Male Heckels dont seem to be interested in any of the domestics however are trying to show that they are fit for the female Heckels in the tank.
All of my 6 Heckels in a colony of 15 Discus are considerably larger than any of my domesticated Discus. This said I beleive that is another reason that the Male Heckels do not wish to pair with the Domesticated ones (thank goodness and I hope it stays that way).
The Females however seem to be the ones that need that extra coaxing to breed. They only seem interested in a spawn for a few seconds each day then wander back to the part of the Colony that is not trying to pair... It kind of leaves me on edge to watch this because it feels "So close yet so far" to having a breeding pair of Heckels.
I added this in another post but here are my parameters and it seems to be REALLY good for keeping them in my case:
Temp - 88
PH 6.8
KH < 10
GH < 65
Nitrates < 20
Water changes - previously was changing about 25% once a week. Now for the past week and planning on this for a few months I am doing "rainy season" waterchanges with cooler water at about 25% - 50% 2 times a week. I hope this starts a spawn! The Heckels get lighter and drop all stress bars when I do this change so I think they like it!
I keep them in a HIGHLY planted tank with TONS of cover and driftwood. I dont like open tanks with them and I feel that makes them a bit uncomfortable. From my experience they seem to like the highly planted tank even though it does have a higher level of lighting to support the plants!
I am only a few months into keeping the Heckels but have about 2-4 years of experience with domesticated ones. Some of my keeping Wilds is what I did with the Domesticated ones... I by no means consider myself an expert but I am somewhat successful with them so..... take what I add with a grain of salt!
By the way, I LOVE this site!!!!! So much information on my absolute favorite fish!!! Why go saltwater when the best of all fish is found in a South American blackwater environment!!! :D
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Re: Introduction to The Heckel Project ...
Wow!
I've got almost exactly the same situation. You could have taken the words out of my mouth, except that I have only one Heckel. I've heard they are usually wild caught and not often aquarium bred. Would love any confirmation on this. My Heckel seems to be doing well at the moment. He is in a 125g with 3 domestics and is the boss of the tank. Love this site and all the info it provides!
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Re: Introduction to The Heckel Project ...
I et My first wild pair tomorrow , wish me luck
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Re: Introduction to The Heckel Project ...
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Post a pic... How are they doing?
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Re: Introduction to The Heckel Project ...
I have them in a quarentine 30 right now , My avatar is a phone pic of them . Trying not to mess with them to much right now , they are eating well and are not spooky . I will try to take a good photo tomorrow . Thanks for the reply . Jim
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Re: Introduction to The Heckel Project ...
wild pair? that is awesome
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Re: Introduction to The Heckel Project ...
I am so sorry , when I said (pair) I meant 2 discus . Thats funny . They could be though , have not checked .
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Re: Introduction to The Heckel Project ...
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Re: Introduction to The Heckel Project ...
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Re: Introduction to The Heckel Project ...
Hy there, i like to introduce my new discus. They are now in a quarantene tank, waiting for them own 125 galon tank.
The water are acid and wery soft. pH is 4,40 and water conductivity is around 100 microsiemens. They are eating well beefhard and enchitraeus worms. They sims to not like artemia and red worms...since now.
Below a link, after 2 weeks of accomodation.
Sorry, I don t have enought rights to put the link in my mesage...
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Re: Introduction to The Heckel Project ...
If someone was interested in seeing that bushes in which Heckel lives in the wilderness, I invite you to my page on fb
Best regards Michal Marcinkiewicz
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Re: Introduction to The Heckel Project ...
Michal,
I followed the Amazon trip you just took this season to collect wild discus. What an adventure that must have been, thank you for all the great pictures you posted :)
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Re: Introduction to The Heckel Project ...
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Michal777
If someone was interested in seeing that bushes in which Heckel lives in the wilderness, I invite you to my page on fb
Best regards Michal Marcinkiewicz
Michal, this it https://www.facebook.com/michal.marcinkiewicz.5
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Re: Introduction to The Heckel Project ...
This is a link to my personal profile. Page about expedition on which is located more photos is called "Amazon Dream Trip -Michal Marcinkiewicz Expedition"
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Re: Introduction to The Heckel Project ...
I hope you enjoy this to!
http://imageshack.us/v_images.php
http://www.youtube.com/user/harryab0805?feature=watch
After two and a half month , two pairs of hekel are build in each of my hekel tanks and decide to spown together- almoust at the same time!. This evening the frys from oane pair was moved on a new localion near the rest of the eggs.
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Re: Introduction to The Heckel Project ...
Good job Harry. You are great!
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Re: Introduction to The Heckel Project ...
Congrats Harry, that is awesome.
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Re: Introduction to The Heckel Project ...
Very nice, it's not often we get to see heckels spawn, hope you will keep us updated please :)
Thanks!
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Re: Introduction to The Heckel Project ...
Yes, i will keep some kind of a journal. This morning, the second pair moved theyr frys on an outher root. On this poin i have a better view to the frys, so i hope this afternoon better pics coud be taken.
My great problem is now to catch the auther fish from the tank.
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Re: Introduction to The Heckel Project ...
Europe strikes again! Congratulations, really nice pair! Keep us updated.
..
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Re: Introduction to The Heckel Project ...
They were kept in this aquarium since purchase? What are tank measurments and size? What are water parameters, type and soze of filtration, your wc regime? What do you feed your heckels? I seems, that low stock high aquarium and vertical roots did a thing. Did a cold front cross Romania on 5. february? If so, you had a perfect storm:right time (february is a begining of rainy season in Rio Negro, low air presure, right tank scape).
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Re: Introduction to The Heckel Project ...
Unfortunately, keeping them together with the others tankmates was not a good idea. The fry was eaten after the first day of free swimming. Maby things go better next time, if there will be a next time. :(
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Re: Introduction to The Heckel Project ...
Hy there! God news again. After removing the other heckels from the tanks, the two remaining pairs breed again on the 20 and 23 February.
You can find a quick presentation in the link below. Now, around 200 babys are swiming in 2 sterile tanks.
http://www.transylvaniadiscus.com/articole.php#
Regards,
Harry
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Re: Introduction to The Heckel Project ...
Harry... You rock! What a nice job, man!
How are the Xingús doing? ;)
Nandi
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Re: Introduction to The Heckel Project ...
Nandi i had to give up the Xingu. I coudent offer them enought space, so i decide to keep just Cuipeua and Heckel. But lot of them are breeding now in Romania.
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Re: Introduction to The Heckel Project ...
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Re: Introduction to The Heckel Project ...
A super congrats Harry. You got two pairs to breed for you? Great looking youngsters. Quite a nice accomplishment. :D
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Re: Introduction to The Heckel Project ...
After qurantine I always keep my Heckels with the domestic fish. The domestics will introduce them to the foods that I serve which is everything from earthworm flake, home made Turkey Heart mixture, Tetra Bits, freeze dried Tubifex cubes, etc. I've never had an issue with wild fish learning to eat the same variety of foods that the domestics enjoy. All of them voraciously love the freeze dried tubifex worms. At this time I have three full grown Blue Faced Heckels, all of them doing well in an overcrowded 90 gal. bare bottom tank with other fish that also include three Wild Greens/Blues. Water changes are 20%-25% twice a week.
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2 Attachment(s)
Blue Faced Heckel (Purchased from Wattley Discus)
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Re: Introduction to The Heckel Project ...
Very cool Harry. Nice Discus. I'm half Transylvanian!
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Re: Introduction to The Heckel Project ...
Quote:
Originally Posted by
harry-ab
Hy there! God news again. After removing the other heckels from the tanks, the two remaining pairs breed again on the 20 and 23 February.
You can find a quick presentation in the link below. Now, around 200 babys are swiming in 2 sterile tanks.
http://www.transylvaniadiscus.com/articole.php#
Regards,
Harry
What an eye opener. So nice to see Heckels with so much babies....Congratulations, what a nice work!
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Re: Introduction to The Heckel Project ...
I wonder what ever happen to the project or what happen to the babies??
tony