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5 Attachment(s)
One of my fish stopped eating...
Mainly posting this to see if anyone would take a different course of action?
1. Please explain the problems with your fish. When did you notice the problems and did anything unusual happen that you think started them?
8 discus grown from 2.5" from Hans in mid-February (so roughly a year old now, probably?). All of them with the exception of one blue diamond are 5". This isn't exactly a new issue because he's starting to act very similarly to my two initial non-eaters which there's some info about in my other threads. A 12-day Metro/93*F treatment shook one of them out of it, the other finally died. The survivor became a massive pig and more or less caught up in the meantime.
This blue diamond has kind of obviously fallen behind a bit and I think he's looking pretty skinny compared to the others. Trying to think proactively before it becomes worse. I have seen absolutely no bullying or harassment other than some minor pushing each other around rarely. For the most part they all seem very chill. I know that doesn't mean there's not something going on, but I would be very surprised if it were an issue. I noticed awhile back (2-3 weeks?) that I'm not seeing what seems to be the signature blue diamond poops that usually were around. Never have seen anything white or concerning though I don't typically see my fish poop much.
2. Symptoms (i.e. turning dark, excess slime, not eating, clamped fins, flashing, darting, clamped gills, white/yellow/green poop, hiding, headstanding or tailstanding, white on tips of fins, rotting or fungus, blisters/white zits on fish, bloated, cloudy eyes, wounds).
Not eating - described above. He's also starting to seem a little more withdrawn and hide-y. He also has one tiny spot on his fin that's been there for... weeks, maybe months... probably unrelated, pic below?
3. What medications/ treatments have you already tried and what were the results. Include dosage and duration of treatment.
Nothing since metro (June, I believe), but this fish wasn't symptomatic during that time.
Tank/Water
4. Tank size and ages, numbers and sizes of fish.
75 gallon, 8x ~5" discus, Stendkers purchased Feb 15, 2022. Some lemon tetras and rummynose tetras as tank mates, added mid-August.
5. Water change regime (What percentage and how often).
90% aged/pre-heated, every evening
6. How long has tank been running? Is it bare bottom? If you have substrate, what type and how deep is it?
Since January, bare bottom.
7. Do you age your water? If you do for how long and what is the ph swing.
Aged 24 hours, tap 7.0 swings to 8.2-8.3 with aeration.
8. What type/brand water conditioner do you use? Do you add it to the tank or aging barrel? How much do you use?
Prime added into tank just before filling, 10 mL
9. Parameters and water source;
Note: Water Parameters are important in diagnosing problems within a tank. If you don't own test kits for the following information, you can purchase them, test your parameters and post this info as soon as possible.
- temp - 85F
- ph - 8.2 pH
- ammonia reading - 0
- nitrite reading - 0
- nitrate reading - <10 - usually barely barely pink on Aquarium Co-Op test strips, I typically consider it 5 ppm.
What type of water or combinations of water sources do you use? If it is an RO/tap/well water mix, please list percentages in the mix.
- well water ____
- municipal water - 100%
- RO water ____
10. Any new fish, plants or inverts added recently.
Nothing since mid-August
11. Please tell us what you feed your fish and how often. This can be critical information for solving the problem so be as specific as you can.
Homemade beef heart primarily (just 100% beef heart, I freeze it in a sheet and then when I cut that sheet into cubes when I go to use it, I kind of "toss" it in some Garlic Guard), also Al's freeze dried black worms, VibraBites, Cobalt Flakes (the ones with Han's name on them), Hikari Discus BioGold, and very recently (after these symptoms) I started giving some Hikari frozen blood worms and he is the only fish in the tank that doesn't go absolutely crazy for them. I would say the split is 75% beefheart, 20% Al's FDBW, and 5% other which is mostly fed for the dither fish.
12. Include any pictures or videos you have which shows the symptoms. If you can't add them to this post, please provide a link to them.
July:
Attachment 133620
July - just showing the non-eater (solid turq/flachen) for later pic
Attachment 133621
The rest of these are about two weeks ago:
Attachment 133622
Attachment 133623
Attachment 133624
Just adding so you can see how much the flachen has grown as compared to the blue diamond, he is now bigger than the BD. The real concern was last night when he wouldn't even eat the blood worms, every other fish in the tank including the dithers are all over the moon about the blood worms. The arrow points at the spot on his fin.
So what I am planning on doing is moving him to quarantine and raising temp to 93. And probably will do a round of metro on him. I'll probably buy a walmart 10 gallon tank to do this and just put him in the basement by my water change setup. I can pretty easily do 100% changes for him down there. Does that sound like the right thing to do or should I take a different course of action? If he was eating I might try metro in food, but he isn't even really interested at this point. I guess I could try giving him a bit at 93* in his own tank and see if he starts getting interested. Then medicate his feed if he does.
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Re: One of my fish stopped eating...
Since Metro didn't to the job, I'd try Rid Ick plus. It's what Tammy and Cary both use with great success.
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Re: One of my fish stopped eating...
Have you ever examined their feces under a microscope?
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Re: One of my fish stopped eating...
Liz, to be clear, this fish was just fine before/after metro until recently. Metro was... June-ish. I think I cluttered up my explanation a bit.
Brian, I have not, but I do have a real microscope and if I find my slides, I could do so. It might be an issue getting his feces, however. Or any feces before it hits the bottom. I fairly rarely see them poop, but I could dedicate some time sitting there and waiting. :)
I'll dig out the microscope tonight and hope that I also put slides with it. Or that my wife put them with it wherever she relocated it to!
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Re: One of my fish stopped eating...
Nice. Let us know what you find. It's just a hunch...
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Re: One of my fish stopped eating...
What if that particular fish isn't really pooping on account of not having eaten much?
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Re: One of my fish stopped eating...
Preferably a sample from that fish, but a fresh sample from any of them will do.
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Re: One of my fish stopped eating...
To me the discus looks fine. Don’t BD grow slower than PB. For that don’t all blues grow slower than PB? What I had with my Hans was similar to this but it happened when they were smaller. One would just stop eating. I’d put in qt and 3 out of 4 came right back to eating. I took it for stress from the other discus or possibly hormones from the other discus just stop them from eating. Once removed they came right back to eating and continued growing.
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Re: One of my fish stopped eating...
I don't think he doesn't look OK, I think he does. Though in person he is absolutely skinnier than the others. Once I get a filter seeded, I'm going to pop him into a QT and see what happens with him. Will also see what happens in the tank (if another one just ends up as low man on the totem pole).
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2 Attachment(s)
Re: One of my fish stopped eating...
Ok, plopped him into QT last night after giving it about two weeks for me to really make sure he wasn't eating and it wasn't just me not noticing. It will be 93 overnight if it isn't already. I've got one tablespoon of salt in the 10 gallon and am replacing it at water change (50%/night).
He hasn't eaten that I've seen. But last night and sometime during the day he pooped.
Unfortunately I couldn't find my microscope last night, but I located it tonight. Since I didn't know the age of the poop I just vacuumed it out at water change and will see if I can find some more fresh.
Here's pictures.
They look different from each other. One fluffy and one more formed. Not the greatest pictures. Any ideas what this kind of feces could indicate?
Attachment 133702
Attachment 133703
How many days should I give him at 93 to see if he'll eat. I know that it can be stressful being alone too, but am hoping he'll eventually eat? My plan after maybe a week if he doesn't start eating would be to do a round of metro for him?
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Re: One of my fish stopped eating...
Got to say these are the hardest things to figure out for me. About a month ago in my main tank 3 weren’t eating and I finally moved them into my qt. Raised the temp to 90 and treated with metro. First day the biggest was pooing just like that. It stoped about a week in and did start eating some. The other 2 we’re eating great at this time but I never saw their poo. 2 weeks later I’m done treating with metro and believe they are better so lower the temp to 86. Now all 3 are skittish and ones poo looks like thisAttachment 133705. So now I’m just waiting to see if this continues. I’m guess if not hex it must be worms?
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Re: One of my fish stopped eating...
I don't know if fish are among the animals that shed intestinal lining? I know chickens do and if you don't know what you're looking at it sure looks like the poop of something that is going to die.
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Re: One of my fish stopped eating...
This is a sample of unknown age, but thought I'd look anyway just to knock the rust off of my microscope.
Pretty sure the big one with red spots is a detritus worm, I don't know what the smaller ones are. In general, I have zero idea what I am looking for if I'm honest. Is there a "fish parasite" chart or something I should be looking for?
http://www.youtube.com/shorts/MZVywjYanz0
Not sure if it will embed correctly so here's a link: https://www.youtube.com/shorts/MZVywjYanz0
Attachment 133716
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Attachment 133718
Will try to get some fresher stuff.
Fish is looking and behaving "fine". But not seeming to be interested in food. It does come up to the front when I go down there to check on it.
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Re: One of my fish stopped eating...
Quote:
Originally Posted by
jwcarlson
This is a sample of unknown age, but thought I'd look anyway just to knock the rust off of my microscope.
Pretty sure the big one with red spots is a detritus worm, I don't know what the smaller ones are. In general, I have zero idea what I am looking for if I'm honest. Is there a "fish parasite" chart or something I should be looking for?
http://www.youtube.com/shorts/MZVywjYanz0
Not sure if it will embed correctly so here's a link:
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/MZVywjYanz0
Attachment 133716
Attachment 133717
Attachment 133718
Will try to get some fresher stuff.
Fish is looking and behaving "fine". But not seeming to be interested in food. It does come up to the front when I go down there to check on it.
Hi there!
These samples cannot be used. The worms seen in the photos appear to be planaria.
After having raised Stendkers myself, i would recommend running a full course of levamisole.
This is a 24 hour treatment on day 1, day 5, and day 13.
I also recommend keeping aquarium salt in and during treatment add also epsom salt at 1tbs per 10G.
Our BD grew far slower than the other strains so that doesnt concern me. The fact that he isnt eating is, however, a concern.
Tammy
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Re: One of my fish stopped eating...
Hi, Tammy! I have done a course of levamisole, though not quite the way you describe. They have had 24 treatments four times, I think. The last three were close to what you are describing, but not quite. No other fish having the same issues.
Levamisole seems tough on them, but I can certainly do it again. I would almost say they have never quite eaten the same after the last round of levamisole.
I too, am not worried about the size, but the eating.
Will keep up salt and dig out my epsom. Epsom replaced at each water change the same as salt?
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Re: One of my fish stopped eating...
Jacob, once the poop hits the bottom of the tank it becomes contaminated by all the microorganisms on the bottom of the tank. To get a good sample you need to catch one after it has been newly pooped and still drifting down in the water.
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Re: One of my fish stopped eating...
Yes, I know as soon as it hits it is basically unusable. Was mostly just dusting off the microscope. :)
The number of times I have seen one of my fish poop is very very minimal, almost never. I'm going to have to put him in a little box and carry him around. :D
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Re: One of my fish stopped eating...
Maybe this is what you need?
Attachment 133719
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Re: One of my fish stopped eating...
That would do it, Brian!
I'm off work next week (was off last week, but was bow hunting so spent like 6-8 hours a day up a tree) so maybe I can sit in front of the tank and read or something.
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Re: One of my fish stopped eating...
You're welcome to come sit in my back yard. One of those little jerks ate my peach trees...
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Re: One of my fish stopped eating...
They do like to ruin fruit trees if given the chance. :)
Attachment 133720
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Very obviously green or yellow-ish green. Does that indicate anything? I had just walked away to finish WC in the big tank and apparently he decided to drop this. Dang it.
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Re: One of my fish stopped eating...
This could be a little infection in the digestive tract or it could be flagellates or nematodes, which is why the microscope would help. Capillaria and roundworms are pretty common in aquariums and can cause yellowish slimy feces.
If confirmed, I would treat with levamisole.
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Re: One of my fish stopped eating...
Is there a way to force a bowel movement? I know epsom salt can help relax muscles to get things moving. I'd love to be able to put the fish in a gallon container with some magic concoction and have it poop. I'm not exaggerating when I say that I have seen my discus poop MAYBE five times in the 9-ish months of having them.
In any event, I am going to try to focus on this fish in the coming days to try to get a fresh sample. If I don't have something soon I will probably just go with levamisole as I did do some reading of really old threads here and did sound like possible secondary infection.
Thanks everyone, I will update here if/when I learn anything. What would the opinion be of the tank I pulled this fish out of if I find worms in this one? If ones got them they all do, yes?
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Re: One of my fish stopped eating...
Quote:
If ones got them they all do, yes?
Correct. And to treat correctly they should be in bare bottom, lights off and scrub all surfaces between water changes. Repeat in a week. The eggs aren't killed and reinfestation is likely, so cleaning out the eggs is your goal. A little epsom salts can be used to help expel the gut. This will most likely throw them off foods for a bit but don't worry. And if you see some little white bugs dancing around the the edge of the tank, don't worry and freak out like I did. They are just copepods evacuating the filter because they don't like the meds...
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Re: One of my fish stopped eating...
Yep, everyone is bare bottom, 90% changes every night. Ugh... I've already done this (levamisole), but I did add some dithers so they probably brought it over.
Should I go scorched earth and jack the temps back to 93 or is that not necessarily helpful for levamisole? I'd like to treat everyone at the same time (including dithers), but I doubt they'd like 93 degrees.
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Re: One of my fish stopped eating...
I don't know about that one. I've always treated at 82.
The heat is applied during hex because it speeds up the discus's metabolism and help the appetite. It also speeds up the life cycle of hex. The metro helps end the cycle. With levamisole you're killing the adults and the water changes help break the cycle by removing the eggs. Logically, I don't know if heat would help in this situation since possible loss of appetite is part of the process...
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Re: One of my fish stopped eating...
Excellent, thanks! I don't see any reason to not treat with levamisole at this point.
Should I treat with epsom salt as well? I haven't done that before when doing levamisole.
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Re: One of my fish stopped eating...
It wouldn't hurt but may not be necessary. If anything dies in the gut it'll help expel it...
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Re: One of my fish stopped eating...
Have you considered Absolute wormer?
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Re: One of my fish stopped eating...
As safe as they say it is, my only issue with Absolute is that it contains flubendazole.
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Re: One of my fish stopped eating...
I have pure levamisole, I don't think I have absolute wormer, but I just looked it up and that package looks kind of familiar. So maybe I've just seen it before.
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Re: One of my fish stopped eating...
Do you bother feeding during levamisole at all?
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Re: One of my fish stopped eating...
Quote:
Originally Posted by
jeep
As safe as they say it is, my only issue with Absolute is that it contains flubendazole.
What do you have against flubendazole?
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Re: One of my fish stopped eating...
Tail standing is a possible side effect. I've assisted several people with this issue after using flubendazole. A few recovered but it's hit and miss on recovery with some deaths as well...
http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showth...le-side-effect
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Re: One of my fish stopped eating...
I'll stick that in my head. Personally, I've never had a problem with it.
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Re: One of my fish stopped eating...
That thread is inconclusive and the people I've worked with very well may have OD'd their fish. I just prefer levamisole because it treats many of the same things without the possible side effects. No matter the course of action, recommending to worm fish once per month is only designed for repeat business... If people don't expose fish to worms then they won't get worms, lol...
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Re: One of my fish stopped eating...
I agree that the once a month is counter productive and only meant to increase sales. The only problem I have with levamisole is that it sets the fish back some after treatment. Of course, after the fish get over being set back some it actually strengthens their immune systems. It's used in some human cancer patients for just that reason, not because the cancer patients are wormy.
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Re: One of my fish stopped eating...
Here's some pictures from tonights sample. It was from the bottom of the tank, however, it was of known age (a few minutes, yes I know that's still not good :)).
In any event:
Attachment 133730
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Attachment 133732
Thousands of those little green ovals.
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Re: One of my fish stopped eating...
Moved QT fish back in with his buddies. Glad i pulled him to see his poop. I have seen whiteish poop occasionally in the main tank but with the beefheart frass, I always just assumed it was a little piece of fat.
Levamisole, salt, and epsom salt in per Tammy's recommendation.
Blankets covering tank and light is off for 24 hours. Will see what kind of ghoulish stuff they pass...
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Re: One of my fish stopped eating...
If I were you I'd treat with Absolute Wormer. Brian prefers Levamisole. You're choice. The Absolute is gentle and it also get's flukes.