AMMONIA levels

Hello All,
I have a perplexing problem, at least for me. My ammonia always jumps from my ro/di (150gallon/day double ro filter) from 0ppm in a 55 gallon barrel (heated to 84°f and aerated), to either 0.25ppm in 100 gallon DT with 30 gallon sump, or 1ppm (yes, 1ppm) in a 40 gallon breeder with 2 pairs of 5” to near 7” discus (the fry are currently just starting to swim freely and eating the parents slime). I have a Smart AWC Touch unit performing 100% wc (currently changing 20 gallons six times a day) in DT, and 50% plus 5 gallons after each feeding (3 times a day) in 40 gallon breeder. If interested in AWC unit see diagram below (I have ZERO affiliation with the company, I just really appreciate a device that eliminates lugging around water changing equipment! Woohoo!)
I have one theory, and that is, I’m changing the water to quickly and not allowing the bacteria a chance to complete the nitrogen cycle.
Current parameters FROM barrel:
Ammonia 0
Nitrite 0
Nitrate 0
TDS 0
Temp 84°f
pH 7
Current parameters IN display tank:
Ammonia 0.25ppm
Nitrite 0
Nitrate <10ppm
TDS 175ish
Temp 84°f
pH 6
Current parameters IN 40 gallon breeder:
Ammonia 1ppm*
Nitrite 0
Nitrate <5ppm
TDS unknown right now
Temp 88°f
pH 6
* I checked this reading multiple times
Did I miss anything (usually miss something)? ALL advice will be appreciated!
Thanks in Advance
Eric

How long until the ammonia returns to zero after a WC? Also, the big PH swing, does it settle back to 6 before going into the tank?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Tefloncat

Hello All,
I have a perplexing problem, at least for me. My ammonia always jumps from my ro/di (150gallon/day double ro filter) from 0ppm in a 55 gallon barrel (heated to 84°f and aerated), to either 0.25ppm in 100 gallon DT with 30 gallon sump, or 1ppm (yes, 1ppm) in a 40 gallon breeder with 2 pairs of 5” to near 7” discus (the fry are currently just starting to swim freely and eating the parents slime). I have a Smart AWC Touch unit performing 100% wc (currently changing 20 gallons six times a day) in DT, and 50% plus 5 gallons after each feeding (3 times a day) in 40 gallon breeder. If interested in AWC unit see diagram below (I have ZERO affiliation with the company, I just really appreciate a device that eliminates lugging around water changing equipment! Woohoo!)
I have one theory, and that is, I’m changing the water to quickly and not allowing the bacteria a chance to complete the nitrogen cycle.
Current parameters FROM barrel:
Ammonia 0
Nitrite 0
Nitrate 0
TDS 0
Temp 84°f
pH 7
Current parameters IN display tank:
Ammonia 0.25ppm
Nitrite 0
Nitrate <10ppm
TDS 175ish
Temp 84°f
pH 6
Current parameters IN 40 gallon breeder:
Ammonia 1ppm*
Nitrite 0
Nitrate <5ppm
TDS unknown right now
Temp 88°f
pH 6
* I checked this reading multiple times
Did I miss anything (usually miss something)? ALL advice will be appreciated!
Thanks in Advance
Eric

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I would have a few questions, how long has the DT been running, and what do you have for filtration on the 40 breeder, did you have this problem prior to the AWC system, were you changing this much water prior to the AWC ,and now for my thoughts I would cut back on the WC to 75% and see if that does not help, I'm thinking what's happening is that you are removing all your biologics with such big changes and your tank is experiencing a mini cycle, just my thoughts

Jeanne

Also one more thought here, with your ph swing are you truly aging your water with just a 55gal barrel, not quite sure if you have other holding tanks

Jeanne

Brendan-
It so far has NOT gone back to zero! I’m doing 50% wc plus 5gallon post each feeding. Imagine if I didn’t! I’m beginning to believe that the ro/di is “stripping” everything from the water, I am adding Rift Lake cichlids salt in a very small amount ~1/4 tsp/5 gallons in rider to help with replacing minerals and buffering.
Jeanne-
This was my 1st suspicion, overly clean water, not healthy water (at least discus healthy). I’m going to cut wc down to two 35% wc four days a week, then see if water parameters change. After calculating I’m using water as fast as it’s being filtered, I may have to get another 55 gallon barrel.
Thanks

Unless I am misreading you have a 55 gallon reservoir, fed by a 150 gal/d RO/DI. This tank supplies 120 gal/d to your DT and 75 gal/d to your BT. Your RO/DI is working with a TDS of 0. Despite the water volume change your TDS in the DT is ~ 175. Most puzzling to me is the success in the BT given the toxic level of ammonia. Several questions: 1. Is the RO/DI water the only source filling your Reservoir? 2. Are you adding anything to your change water? (i.e. equilibrium). 3. When are you measuring parameters in your tanks, just prior to adding water or just after? You might want to do both for a short time.

I don't think that the change frequency is affecting your levels, at least biochemically that doesn't make sense. The bacterial metabolism is relative to the concentration of the reactant, not how long it has been there. What is your biological filter in your sump for the DT and same question for the BT. My guess is that your filtration is inadequate but functional due to 0 nitrites and positive nitrates. May need more or possibly not fully cycled, (but if that is so where are the nitrites). How long has this system been running?

Despite Dilution being the Solution I think you may have indeed reached the too much of a good thing level. Regardless, water changes should not strip out your biologics as they are not primarily in the water column. I agree that you should get a second tank but your reservoir should be large enough that you can age your water at least till the ph level is stable. I also agree that you should supplement your RODI water source as with a TDS of 0 your Gh and Kh are also 0. This also brings up the question of what it is you are fixing with RODI water. You can also fix Gh/Kh by adding Cichlid salt or some % of either tap or waste water from your filter to reach target Gh/Kh targets.