Heavy breathing and hiding

Problem

1. Please explain the problems with your fish. When did you notice the problems and did anything unusual happen that you think started them?
Heavy breathing, mouth noticeably opening and closing, both gills moving at same rate (i.e. not one flared more than the other). 3 weeks of this. Has been staying apart from the others, does eat, but takes her time and retreats to darker area of the tank before and after eating. Nothing unusual/different when issue started.


2. Symptoms (i.e. turning dark, excess slime, not eating, clamped fins, flashing, darting, clamped gills, white/yellow/green poop, hiding, headstanding or tailstanding, white on tips of fins, rotting or fungus, blisters/white zits on fish, bloated, cloudy eyes, wounds).
Breathing and hiding as described in (1) above.
Appearance of single white zit at centre top of soft dorsal fin, which then went away, leaving a small hole straight through the fin.
Faeces is normal, based on what I vacuum from the tank. Have not seen anything unusual.


3. What medications/ treatments have you already tried and what were the results. Include dosage and duration of treatment.
Worming treatment every 4 weeks. Have used Praziquantel (liquid) dosed over the period of several days as recommended, and Kusuri (flubenzadol) which goes in as a one-off dose. I am limited to what I can get here, and in fact can no longer get the flubenzadol.
I CANNOT get metro, before anyone suggests it :D It isn't allowed to be sold. In any form.



Tank/Water

4. Tank size and ages, numbers and sizes of fish.
250 litres
3 adult discus at least 3 years old, not stunted or malformed (I have more, but am working on the 1100 litre tank and will combine them at that point). 7 panda cories (hence the reason for moving them; the pandas won't take the heat for long). All fish came from a tank being stripped down, so I do not know a lot more about them (oh, the rescue missions).
Filtration is AquaOne Nautilus. 2700 lph. No pre-filter. No UV. Pipes from/to tank cleaned at 8 week intervals. Filter media squeezed/swooshed in old tank water every 4 weeks.
Extra aeration also provided, not just spray-bar.


5. Water change regime (What percentage and how often).
40% every 2 days


6. How long has tank been running? Is it bare bottom? If you have substrate, what type and how deep is it?
5 months. 0.5 cm of black silica sand in front, 0.5cm of white silica sand in back. Just enough to cover the glass bottom.


7. Do you age your water? If you do for how long and what is the ph swing.
Yes I do. Min 24 hours, with aeration. pH moves down from around 7.2 to ~5.8.


8. Parameters and water source;

Note: Water Parameters are important in diagnosing problems within a tank. If you don't own test kits for the following information, you can purchase them, test your parameters and post this info as soon as possible.


- temp: 28.5 celcius

- ph 5.8 (I have a pH meter)

- ammonia reading 0 (this is an NH3 reading; Prime will skew results using the more standard tests kits. I use the Aqua One NH3 kit)

- nitrite reading 0

- nitrate reading 10 - 20 (API test kit, not always easy to read accurately)

- TDS ~110

What type of water or combinations of water sources do you use? If it is an RO/tap/well water mix, please list percentages in the mix.

Rainwater. That's all I have access to. kH and GH of 0, hence my frequent water changes. TDS also of 0.
It comes into the house via a 20 micron filter. And there are some copper pipes in the mix, but I do use Prime at every water change. I also use Seachem Replenish, for GH, and Discus Trace. This takes the TDS to around 110.


9. Any new fish, plants or inverts added recently.
No


10. Please tell us what you feed your fish and how often. This can be critical information for solving the problem so be as specific as you can.
Homemade mixture of fish(mussels, trevally, etc), vitamin C, spirulina, garlic... they get this in the morning and again in the evening.
Frozen bloodworms middle of the day.

Thought I would update in case anyone finds this useful. After much reading and observation I suspect she has sessile ciliates. Symptoms continue, so I have moved her to a 150 litre tank and am using a 2ppm dosage of PP. This is the most nail-biting thing I have done EVER. Watching tank like a hawk.

Weekly update :) PP bath for 4 hours, followed by removal to hospital tank (215 litre). 24 hours later, no noticeable change. Heavy breathing, both gills flaring, continued. Raised heat from 29C to 34C (high as I can go) over the course of 2 days, addition of 1 teaspoon aquarium salt per 40 litres, to knock anything that survived the PP. Daily water changes, maintaining salt dosage and temp. Eating well (homemade fish mix, I don't use beefheart), frozen bloodworms. Faeces black and round, no long stringy stuff. Not hiding.

Breathing seemed easier - not completely back to normal, but less pronounced. Am now in the process of reducing heat back to 29C by 1 degree per day. I notice today, which is dropping it to 32C, her breathing/gill flaring has increased again. She's a rose red, and I can see whitish under-area on the gills. Aaaagh.

Not yet sure how to proceed. I would like to assume (hah) that the PP, heat, and salt have knocked anything external, but there's obviously still an issue. Not yet sure of my next course of action. Nothing for the next week anyway, I'd like to give her a break!

Any time anyone wants to chime in here, that'd be great :D

Hi Catherine, first lets stop worming every month. Once you have dewormed your fish no need to ever do it again unless you suspect they got re-infected again. Lets try just fresh clean water and see if this help to heal the gills. Lower the temp to your normal temp and lets give this fish some time.
Pat

Thanks Pat, I did as you suggested. I don't stint on WC ever anyway, so it was really just a case of business as usual. Sadly, she didn't make it. My first fatality. I feel like a murderer. She's had a burial in the garden :(
Not sure what I've learned from this, except that gill flukes are b*stards. I suspect that she was coming in for some aggression from a tankmate originally, and that this helped boost their numbers, before I moved her to hospital tank.

Sorry she did not make it in spite of all your efforts.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Cate45

Thanks Pat, I did as you suggested. I don't stint on WC ever anyway, so it was really just a case of business as usual. Sadly, she didn't make it. My first fatality. I feel like a murderer. She's had a burial in the garden :(
Not sure what I've learned from this, except that gill flukes are b*stards. I suspect that she was coming in for some aggression from a tankmate originally, and that this helped boost their numbers, before I moved her to hospital tank.

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Sorry to hear Catherine :(
Pat