What is 265 gallons of filtration? Treating fish in a planted tank with substrate is rarely effective. Other than not eating, what symptoms do the two fish display? Do you have any better pictures of the two fish in question?
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What is 265 gallons of filtration? Treating fish in a planted tank with substrate is rarely effective. Other than not eating, what symptoms do the two fish display? Do you have any better pictures of the two fish in question?
Attachment 106603Attachment 106604Listed in the first post is the filtration. Two Eheim pro 4 350 canister filters. One is reverse flow through the gravel. Meaning. Water is taken in through a pre filter sponge, then filtered through the filter and finally re introduced through the gravel around the perimeter of the tank as well as the center DIY. The other filter again is a Eheim pro 4 350 runs conventionally, also with a pre filter sponge. One power head with a pre filter sponge. And my substrate is very clean because most everything gets trapped in the sponge pre filters. I clean the sponges at every WC.
The only thing noticeable in the two fish is that they are a bit thin from not eating for two weeks. I did a Epson salt treatment the other day to the whole tank and I noticed the following day, one fish had long white stringing poop hanging from him. Other then that they would hide separate in the back of the tank. I also treated them with API general cure for 6 days with little to no noticeable difference. I just started prazipro treatment today after a 90% WC.
The fish closest in picture just got the white spot on his side the other day. And the one behind him and along side him are the two not eating and are most times hiding. I noticed a small improvement in them after the API general cure treatment. I believe it has metro in it.
So, you purchased them 1/14, and since you have had them you nave treated with epsoms salt, general cure, and prazipro? is that correct? Think about this for a little bit.
There is no such thing as 265 gallons of filtration, or, "overfiltration". This is a myth, and no substitute for water changes. I don't think it is the cause of your problems now, but it is something you will need to accept. Mechanical filtration, while it may make the water appear clean, all it is doing is sucking up the poo and uneaten food and collecting it in the filter medium in the canister, and, unfortunately all the water is still cycling though this poop trap.
Which brings us to your use of gravel, another poop trap. Sure, you can say it is clean, but give it 6 months and let me come over and stir it with a stick and we will see how clean it really is. I think cycling the water through it makes the problem worse, better off with a finer media such as sand, which collects at least most of the crap on the top and is easier to clean (in comparison to gravel).
Buuuutttt, none of these are your issue at the moment. The tank is just too new. Your pictures leave a lot to be desired in trying to get a good look at the fish. New fish should always go in to a QT BB tank for 6 weeks, this is so if we do need to treat them it can be done so properly, and not in a planted tank. It might be that you got bad stock, but it could be something as simple as to much current in the tank, or the tank is in an area with high traffic and the fish are constantly spooked. Maybe the lighting is to bright? At any rate, my first suggestion prior to dosing them with any more meds would be to remove them and place them in a dimly lit 29/30 gallon BB tank with nothing but a sponge filter and see how they respond.
Since I purchased them, yes just over two weeks ago. All but the two ate from day one. I noticed the two in the back hiding and not eating. This went on for a week. I became concerned and decided to try something. So I treated them with the API general cure for 6 days. The fish started interacting with the others a little but not much. I then decided to try epson salt one teaspoon per 10 gallons of water. The following day is when I noticed the one had the stringy white fesses. So today after a 90% WC. I am trying prazipro.
As for the canister filters. I alternate cleaning them every two weeks. I have no doubt having substrate can hold things in it but I am on top of it. Fully cleaned once a week. I put filter cotton in my pic up tube when I vac the substrate so I know and see everything that is coming out of it. If you read earlier on , it is eco complete. Everything in the tank was picked to create a clean environment. From the substrate to the plants, shrimp,snails,Cory cats,kill fish, cardinals. All were in place for over two months prior to adding the Discus. The filters both have media from old running tanks for properl cycling. This tank is set up just for them. And they were all purchased at the same time from the same place.
Is this an under ground filter?If so they get very dirty and lots of sludge forms under there.It is IMO the worst filters ever made.Sludge=anaerobic =protozoa and other multi-cell organisms that can infect fish.6 days of antibiotic treatments and your half way there.Another 6 days may have cleared the issue.If you use antibiotics for short periods and not the full course,it makes the remaining bacteria a little more resistive to treatment.What disease do you think it is to use Prazipro alone?I don't think it's giil flukes or worms.
No ,it is nothing at all related to a conventional under gravel filter as explained in detail earlier. The fish has white stringy poop. What is the cause of this?
The other fish in the tank are to help clean up after them. And the same fish are listed right here on this site as good tankmates for Discus. Each fish or invertebrates have a job to do in the tank.
It was suggested I increase water temp. I did that.
It was suggested I remove obstructions in tank to make it easier to clean. I did that
It was suggested that I increase the amounts of my WC and frequency. I did that
It was suggested I look at my water quality. I test it nearly every day with the same results.
It was suggested I inspect my filters and clean them over and above my normal cleaning. I did that
It was suggested I do more thorough cleaning of the substrate. I did that. Three additional times.
It was suggested I feed only freeze dried foods to prevent contamination. I did that.
It was suggested I reduce lighting. I did that.
I still have two fish that hide and have not eaten a thing. Now I am no doctor. But I know if I did not eat for two weeks I would be really week and just about on my death bed. So I am guessing the same would go for fish.
So yes I did treat with API general cure for 6 days. It called for 4 days but I treated for six. I saw little to no change in the fish.
My next step was try epson salt. I looked at this as a very mild and safe treatment . From what I understand at the dose I used it acts simply as a laxative and helps clear the fishes digestive track. It was only one dose overnight. It did bring a clue! White poop!!!
I was told treat this with prazipro. So yes I began this Monday.
Yes I am treating the whole tank , as if one has it , they all have been exposed to what ever it is they have. I only have one additional 10 gallon tank that can be used as a hospital tank. But no one has suggested to this point that I separate the fish.
I did however remove my invertebrates from the tank.
Should I not be treating them? Knowing they have white poop? And have not eaten?
How long can they go without eating before they are to week to recover?
I am open to opinions and suggestions.
However, No one has said how to proceed. How long to wait to see changes and what other things I should be looking for.
I would like to make one thing perfectly clear. My substrate is clean, my filtration is excellent and clean. I have three pre filter sponges that are cleaned daily. My current flow is not excessive. I have an air stone in the tank for oxygen. I have two heaters in the tank so temp is even throughout the tank. And all fish in the tank are happy and healthy and eating with the exception of the two. Only other thing I observed is a new spot on the side of one fish.
So how would one proceed to treat this?..
Thank you.
I believe that is what is in the API general cure. 250mg metronidazole and 75 mg praziquantel per packet. Should I use this or something else?
With all due respect, I don't think this is particularly good advice just yet. Get the fish in a hospital tank and see if they can regain their appetite.
Continuously tossing one medication after the other into the tank will due more harm then good. Considering the OP has already treated with general cure, and now prazi, give the fish a few weeks to recover. No to mention the other fish in the tank are being needlessly subjected to medications even though they show now symptoms. There is only so much the fish's kidneys and liver can handle before irreparable damage is done.
Thank you all for your support, suggestions and opinions. They may differ in some ways but this is how we learn.
Nc0gnet0 I see and now have better understanding of your concerns.
A few questions
1- how long can the fish go without food or eating?
2- how long do I wait to see changes or improvements in the fish before I decide to medicate??
3- if I see no improvement in the fish. What would your treatment be?
I am in the process of setting up a sick tank now. I just need an air pump that I should have later today. Yes completely bare bottom.