New discus owner with lots of discus questions :D

Hi all,

Brand new to the forum here from Indonesia and happy to announce that I've very recently purchased half a dozen young discus fish. They're only been in my tank for less than 36 hours but thank heavens they are already eating and looking relaxed, if not still a teeny bit sheepish.

Being a discus newbie, naturally I have a ton of questions but let's do one thing at a time so you guys won't be annoyed by me. For this post I'll post a few pictures of my tank and the 6 new discus, and then if anybody would so kindly answer or give their valued opinion to a couple of things :

1. What kinds of discus do I have? This is the first time that I'm a bit intimidated by the sheer number of different varieties and strains and names for a single species of ornamental fish.

2. How are they looking right now in terms of shape, colour/pattern, stuntedness, and what can I expect from them in terms of future colouring and sizes if given decent care and diet? I got them from a couple of local LFS and they're all about 7 cm from nose to peduncle. I'm aware they are most definitely not in the upper range in regards to quality with the prices I'm getting them for (ranging from Rp 50-60.000, which equates to $4-5 per fish), so I tried my best to look for the best body shape and health out of the lot.

My plan in getting young discus instead of more mature ones are firstly because of their lower prices (doesn't hurt that much if anything bad happens to them), and secondly also I want them to become used to the small schooling fishes already in the tank so they can hopefully see that they're friends, not food.

So, on to the pics then!

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b8...iscus/tank.jpg
The tank they're in. Around 480-litre (125g) planted tank with a 120-litre sump underneath. Been established for about 6 months and housing rainbowfish, Harlequin rasbora, a couple species of Asian barbs, and extensive clean-up crew of young BN catfish, small cobitis loaches, Caridina typus shrimps, and trumpet snails for sub-substrate cleaning.

The discus!
http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b8...cus/red-01.jpg
http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b8...cus/red-03.jpg
First 2 are these ones. I'm guessing they're Red melons? Personally in my eyes they're the most decent in terms of body shape and potential for growth.

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b8.../yellow-01.jpg
This one is a Yellow Pigeon Blood, methinks? Sorry for the poor pic, was taken only a few hours after purchase, so still very shy. Looks in good shape and also good potential for growth.

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b8...stripes-01.jpg
http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b8...stripes-02.jpg
This one is also still very shy during the shoot, and it's a Turquoise, I think? Maybe a little stunted?

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b8...s/group-03.jpg
The two shy ones hiding under a log.

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b8...us/blue-01.jpg
http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b8...us/blue-02.jpg
These two are I think are the least compared to the others in terms of shape and growth potential. Can see the bigger eyes relative to the body size. Also colouration a bit darker than desired. Blue Diamonds, right?

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b8...s/group-01.jpg
http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b8...s/group-02.jpg
The blues and reds together.

Thanks all looking forward to the replies.
Riz

I'm no judge but your discus look really nice

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mkng07

I'm no judge but your discus look really nice

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Thanks Matt, I hope they will grow and bulk up well

Welcome to Simply! The type of fish appear to be more or less what you labeled them as. Breeders all give different names to different fish when its really a lot more simple than that. The "blue diamonds" are the only ones im unsure of. They may be cobalts or may be blue diamonds. If they have stress bars they are cobalt, the picture was hard to tell for sure.

To me these fish look to be nice quality. Its hard to know for sure based on just a few pictures but the shape and eye to body size ratio looks good aside from the blue ones. The blue appear to be a bit stunted and have an elongated shape. As for growing these guys out I can not stress enough how difficult it will be to grow them to full potential in a planted tank with other fish. Young discus grow much better in bare bottomed tanks with only other discus in there. Based on their size that is how I would suggest you raise them for about 1 year, then they will be ready for a planted tank. If you simply must raise them in the tank then you need to be prepared for daily 90% water changes and spend upwards of an hour wiping down everything and cleaning the substrate COMPLETELY. Even then they will not grow to have great shape and will not grow to full size.

Hi Snap, thanks for the extensive reply.

The blues appear to have no mood bars whatsoever so pretty sure they are Diamonds instead of Cobalts.

Thanks for the compliment for the quality of the fish. Regarding raising them in a planted tank, I have spent hours reading about the pros and cons of doing so prior to purchasing the fish, and basically have come to a compromise and accept that in the end the fish probably won't grow as big as they should if I have kept them in a BB tank and feed them the high protein diet most people do. That's why I get the "lower-end" fish so that I don't have sky high expectations of them. All I can do is give them the best possible water condition (shouldn't be a problem with my oversized filtration) and as good a diet as possible within reason for a planted tank. Currently I am feeding TetraBits, frozen BW, live daphnia and mashed up vege alternately. If they get to 6-7 inches long, that would be great and any bigger would be a welcome bonus.

In my limited experience, it's not just the potential size of the fish that is a concern in a planted tank, but the health of the fish. Once you have a health problem, which isn't unusual in this hobby, your plants and substrate will complicate the matter, and you may lose some fish! In the end, you may realize that plants and substrate work better once your fish are adults, and have less health concerns! Good luck....Kris

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Juku Eja

All I can do is give them the best possible water condition (shouldn't be a problem with my oversized filtration) and as good a diet as possible within reason for a planted tank. Currently I am feeding TetraBits, frozen BW, live daphnia and mashed up vege alternately. If they get to 6-7 inches long, that would be great and any bigger would be a welcome bonus.

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Live foods can carry pathogens that can infect pet fish with diseases that are difficult to cure.So be careful while feeding live daphnia.

In my limited experience, it's not just the size of the fish that will be affected by a planted/substrated tank, but more importantly, their health. Once you have a health issue (not uncommon in this hobby) your chances of keeping your fish alive in a planted tank go way down. My advice.....don't wait until one or more fish get sick, clear your tank to a bb now, and once the fish are full grown, and stable, put your substrate and plants back in! Good luck....Kris

Juku Eja, Selamat Natal dan tahun baru! I'm originally from Malang and now reside in the U.S. I'm also new to the discus hobby and have already made many mistakes just like the ones you're about to make. I bought my first discus in May and by July, they all started getting sick and died one after another. They were young juvies and I had them in a planted and sanded tank. Didn't know I needed consistent water changes and never realized the importance of a clean bottom. They were always skiddish and hiding in the corners or under a plant. Never swam around, just stayed in one place most of the day. The result was I lost most of them and the ones that survived are now all stunted. At about 10 or 11 months old, they're all still only 3 or 3.5 inches long with big eyes. I don't expect them to grow to 6 inches. As a matter of fact, I'll be extremely happy if they get to 5". By the end of July, I found this site and just kept reading. It was all I did for a week. I learned a lot about the fish and what they need to thrive and stay healthy.
By August I decided to buy 125 and after a few weeks, moved them from the 75 gallon. I also kept the new tank bb and performed 50% daily water changes. In September, I bought a few more juvies and the results of the new batch is incomparable to the first. After a few weeks of qt, I added them to the 125. Now, they're already much larger than the first batch. They swim around all day, and never hide as I or anyone approaches the tank. They actually come up to the front of the tank if anyone approaches. I can't tell you how important water changes are and how vital the cleanliness of the bottom should be. This is just my experience with these fish and the vast difference in the results of my first and second batch of fish. Ultimately, they're your fish and you can care for them the way you see fit. However, if you're looking to get 6 inch healthy discus, you won't get that without proper care and maintenance. I wish you the best of luck and I hope they give you as much joy as I have found with mine.

Stefan

Quote:

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Originally Posted by krislewis3

In my limited experience, it's not just the potential size of the fish that is a concern in a planted tank, but the health of the fish. Once you have a health problem, which isn't unusual in this hobby, your plants and substrate will complicate the matter, and you may lose some fish! In the end, you may realize that plants and substrate work better once your fish are adults, and have less health concerns! Good luck....Kris

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fish must be cheap there. in States, at a LFS, those go for $40 + $US and look the same as far as quality.
but IME they can change a LOT as they grow, what looks good now may be goofy later, but that is part of the growing out.

plants...yeah, even the heat that Ds like will not work well with some plants, and if you need to raise the temp higher for some reason, that will definitely nail some plants. that said, i do planted.

you don't have to ask a lot of questions, there is a ton your can read here http://forum.simplydiscus.com/forumd...-for-Beginners

it would have been better to read up prior to buying, but better late than never

i like your tank. but growing in there is going to be a lot of hassle.

i were you, i would go buy another, tank. take the Ds out of your display and feed them i an boring glass box, and do what all the discus pros say.

you are going to have a mess in your display tank if you start feeding them like you need to and raise the temps up.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Akili

Live foods can carry pathogens that can infect pet fish with diseases that are difficult to cure.So be careful while feeding live daphnia.

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Very aware of that. However, if one of the leading discus farms in the US feeds their young discus their own cultured live daphnia, why wouldn't I?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by krislewis3

In my limited experience, it's not just the size of the fish that will be affected by a planted/substrated tank, but more importantly, their health. Once you have a health issue (not uncommon in this hobby) your chances of keeping your fish alive in a planted tank go way down. My advice.....don't wait until one or more fish get sick, clear your tank to a bb now, and once the fish are full grown, and stable, put your substrate and plants back in! Good luck....Kris

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Thanks for the concern Kris and I totally understand where you're coming from. That's why I'm starting my discus venture with, for lack of a better word, "cheap" fish so if I happen to lose a few I won't feel too guilty. As for clearing out my tank to become BB, er...that's a bit of a tall order with 6 months worth of growth in there. As I said before, what's happening now is a compromise and my responsibility is to get the best out of both worlds as much as I can.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Stefanusgo

Juku Eja, Selamat Natal dan tahun baru! I'm originally from Malang and now reside in the U.S. I'm also new to the discus hobby and have already made many mistakes just like the ones you're about to make. I bought my first discus in May and by July, they all started getting sick and died one after another. They were young juvies and I had them in a planted and sanded tank. Didn't know I needed consistent water changes and never realized the importance of a clean bottom. They were always skiddish and hiding in the corners or under a plant. Never swam around, just stayed in one place most of the day. The result was I lost most of them and the ones that survived are now all stunted. At about 10 or 11 months old, they're all still only 3 or 3.5 inches long with big eyes. I don't expect them to grow to 6 inches. As a matter of fact, I'll be extremely happy if they get to 5". By the end of July, I found this site and just kept reading. It was all I did for a week. I learned a lot about the fish and what they need to thrive and stay healthy.
By August I decided to buy 125 and after a few weeks, moved them from the 75 gallon. I also kept the new tank bb and performed 50% daily water changes. In September, I bought a few more juvies and the results of the new batch is incomparable to the first. After a few weeks of qt, I added them to the 125. Now, they're already much larger than the first batch. They swim around all day, and never hide as I or anyone approaches the tank. They actually come up to the front of the tank if anyone approaches. I can't tell you how important water changes are and how vital the cleanliness of the bottom should be. This is just my experience with these fish and the vast difference in the results of my first and second batch of fish. Ultimately, they're your fish and you can care for them the way you see fit. However, if you're looking to get 6 inch healthy discus, you won't get that without proper care and maintenance. I wish you the best of luck and I hope they give you as much joy as I have found with mine.

Stefan

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Hi Stefan, Selamat Natal dan Tahun Baru juga! How lucky you are to be able to live in the US.
Sorry to hear about what happened to your first batch of discus. Certainly wouldn't want it to happen to mine but thank heavens early signs after a couple of days are very encouraging. All six fish are active and moving about at their own pace all over the tank. Most are definitely not afraid of me coming close to the glass and they all are even already eating frozen BW out of my fingers. So, fingers crossed!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Jack L

fish must be cheap there. in States, at a LFS, those go for $40 + $US and look the same as far as quality.
but IME they can change a LOT as they grow, what looks good now may be goofy later, but that is part of the growing out.

plants...yeah, even the heat that Ds like will not work well with some plants, and if you need to raise the temp higher for some reason, that will definitely nail some plants. that said, i do planted.

you don't have to ask a lot of questions, there is a ton your can read here http://forum.simplydiscus.com/forumd...-for-Beginners

it would have been better to read up prior to buying, but better late than never

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Hi Jack,
Temps here are already steady at 29-31C for months despite my best efforts to lower it. Perks of being in a tropical country, eh? The plants that couldn't stand those temps have already died off long ago. So at least on the temperature side I'm quite safe.

Thanks for the link and believe me that I've read up as many articles, threads, and watch videos until my eyes water before buying. So yeah I guess I'm a sucker for punishment :p

Hi Riz,

Welcome aboard!

I'll just jump right in with the fish. IMO they are already a little behind in growth, and some don't have the best shape. That's obviously not your fault as you just got them. The large eye size, especially on the first ones (red pigeons, whatever trade name you give them) are an indicator that they've fallen behind. I have seen miracles on Simply in the past -- people have bought horribly runted fish from the LFS and somehow managed to get them to grow and look decent as adults. It just depends on how far their growth has fallen behind. At some point they do reach a "point of no return" where no amount of good food or water changes will help them. Only time will tell if that's the case for you.

In terms of shape, the blues and the turquoise fish look the best IMO. The turk is actually pretty round, and though the blues have a bit of a pointy face (usually not a desirable factor in discus), a lot of the blue diamond types do carry that shape as youngsters. It's not uncommon for them to be a bit pointy. If you look closely at the tails of the blues, you'll see a black bar between the caudal peduncle and the caudal fin -- this bar would not be present in high quality blue diamonds. This leads me to believe that they're probably a BD cross or throwback of some sort.

As you've probably read by now, growing out young discus is highly dependent on keeping their water very clean. This is usually harder in a display tank with substrate and plants. That's not to say that it can't be done, but it's certainly more work for you. Our recommendation here has always been bare bottom grow out tanks, and that's for one very simple reason -- we know it works. It's sort of our way of helping people get onto the right path with discus. It's a proven method that almost always ensures success. It's not the only way, and people are free to throw that advice out the window, but it's the easiest way to get your feet wet with discus and get comfortable with their needs and their quirks.

My suggestion is to try your hand at these and see how they do for you. If things go well, great. If they don't, you can always make adjustments and try again. Everyone here has had a set of "starter" discus. Once you feel comfortable with them and you learn what to look for in terms of color, shape, and overall health, you can always look for higher quality fish at a later date.

I will say that starting with larger fish (5"+) in a display tank tends to make life much easier, but of course they will cost you a lot more in the beginning.

At any rate, enjoy your first venture with discus. I hope you find them enjoyable. Most of us are here because we got bit by the "discus bug" at some point and never looked back.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Stefanusgo

Juku Eja, Selamat Natal dan tahun baru! I'm originally from Malang and now reside in the U.S. I'm also new to the discus hobby and have already made many mistakes just like the ones you're about to make. I bought my first discus in May and by July, they all started getting sick and died one after another. They were young juvies and I had them in a planted and sanded tank. Didn't know I needed consistent water changes and never realized the importance of a clean bottom. They were always skiddish and hiding in the corners or under a plant. Never swam around, just stayed in one place most of the day. The result was I lost most of them and the ones that survived are now all stunted. At about 10 or 11 months old, they're all still only 3 or 3.5 inches long with big eyes. I don't expect them to grow to 6 inches. As a matter of fact, I'll be extremely happy if they get to 5". By the end of July, I found this site and just kept reading. It was all I did for a week. I learned a lot about the fish and what they need to thrive and stay healthy.
By August I decided to buy 125 and after a few weeks, moved them from the 75 gallon. I also kept the new tank bb and performed 50% daily water changes. In September, I bought a few more juvies and the results of the new batch is incomparable to the first. After a few weeks of qt, I added them to the 125. Now, they're already much larger than the first batch. They swim around all day, and never hide as I or anyone approaches the tank. They actually come up to the front of the tank if anyone approaches. I can't tell you how important water changes are and how vital the cleanliness of the bottom should be. This is just my experience with these fish and the vast difference in the results of my first and second batch of fish. Ultimately, they're your fish and you can care for them the way you see fit. However, if you're looking to get 6 inch healthy discus, you won't get that without proper care and maintenance. I wish you the best of luck and I hope they give you as much joy as I have found with mine.

Stefan

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+1+1+1+100

ive gone through the exact same thing