Need help with Ph

Hi it’s been awhile
I’ve setup a breeding tank In a rush due to my Discus which I’ve had for about 11 months decided to spawn in our community tank
Moved the pair to breeding tank and 6 days later spawned again but only 3 hatched.
So I bought a RO unit as my tap water TDS is high 215 After RO 0
Currently I’m using 2:1 ratio
Which is bringing my TDS down to about 80
Great I thought all sorted
6 days later Spawned again hoping for a better hatch rate but noticed after 24hrs a lot of the eggs are turning white like the previous time
So picked up a digital PH meter, calibrated it and checked the PH reading 7.9
Test strips were registering around 7.2
Big difference
So instead of mixing tap water with RO what else would anyone recommend to bring down the PH and add trace elements to the RO
Bearing in mind it’s for a breeding tank
Any help greatly appreciated
Regards Assad

Hello and congratulations on the new pair.
I personally would not mess with the ph. I feel a stable ph is always better than an ideal one. The problem I’ve had when messing with ph is fluctuating values and eventually a ph crash.That is very hard on the parents and it will kill both the fry and parents if it drops to low to fast.
I would be patient and try to see if your male is just young ( how old are your fish? I see you’ve had them 11 months but how big were they when you got them), if he is inexperienced and not making good runs, if your cone is in a high current area of the tank etc. I would try and move the cone to an area with lower water flow. If you see them spawn you can turn off your air or your mechanical filter, which ever you are using. You could also try lowering your TDS a little more but I would do so slowly and carefully. In my experience, you are in that sweet spot already at 80 ppm. With my water much softer, the ph drops fast. You could have a lot of calcium in your water and need a little softer water.
As a last resort and you do decide to lower the ph I would use peat moss in your storage container. I have had less ph crashes when I tried peat moss instead of acids. I did lose some fish due to ph crashes early in my attempts at breeding so I gave up on what the books said was needed and just let my ph stay higher and where it was stable. I have had very good hatches at ph of 8.2 and around 80 to 100 ppm so it can be done. That said my source water may have less calcium than yours.
Whatever you decide good luck!
Respectfully, Matt

Cheers Matt
I think you’re right, I’ll lower the TDS slightly over the next few water changes
I’m starting to doubt the accuracy of this digital PH meter
It was only cheap so I’ve ordered a better quality one, just to get a better idea of the PH
What are your thoughts on RO/DI
I bought a new 3 stage RO unit and I had a spare filter housing which added DI Resin
I’m thinking of removing the DI Resin, no need to drop TDS down to 0 just to raise it back up again with HMA water to 80
Without the resin the RO is 8
What do you think

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Originally Posted by assadp

Cheers Matt
I think you’re right, I’ll lower the TDS slightly over the next few water changes
I’m starting to doubt the accuracy of this digital PH meter
It was only cheap so I’ve ordered a better quality one, just to get a better idea of the PH
What are your thoughts on RO/DI
I bought a new 3 stage RO unit and I had a spare filter housing which added DI Resin
I’m thinking of removing the DI Resin, no need to drop TDS down to 0 just to raise it back up again with HMA water to 80
Without the resin the RO is 8
What do you think

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DI is not needed. All it does is remove the remaining TDS that regular RO leaves behind, but the problem is it exhausts pretty quickly and starts smelling like rotten eggs. Your goal of 80 TDS using and RO/Tap mix is ideal! And Matt is correct. Don't chase ph. RO should produce neutral PH of 7.0. Just be observant because pure RO has no buffering ability and you can crash your PH. However, using the tap mix should give you enough buffering capacity to avoid this as long as you do your regular water changes. Soon after the fry hatch you can increase the percentage of tap and increase TDS.

Thanks Jeep

I suggest you give the fish, particularly the male, a few more chances before chasing pH, TDS, etc. Males become fertile 5 - 7 months after females do, but it's not an ON/OFF switch. You've reported the first successful spawn. If he is fertile, his fertility rate will increase as he gets older. A seasoned discus breeder, who no longer participates on Simply, told me of one pair that took 20 spawnings before they got it right. He routinely pulls ~200 fry from each batch. So patience may be what's needed most here.

Good luck, Willie

Also every time they have spawned all the eggs have been translucent and not Orange/Tan, they hatched and we got 3 wiglers.

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Originally Posted by assadp

Also every time they have spawned all the eggs have been translucent and not Orange/Tan, they hatched and we got 3 wiglers.

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Did the eggs turn dark before hatching? If the eggs turn dark, how many?

Cliff

80% of them turned white the other 20% stayed translucent a handful out of the 20% still stayed translucent but had a black middle. Only 3 hatched from them. Update on the digital PH meter
As the saying goes buy cheap buy twice
PH is actually 7.32 and not 7.9
As far as the eggs on this attempt about 170 eggs which started as translucent, now 48hrs 70% have turned white and out of the 30% about 15 to 20 eggs have a dark middle
The pair seem to be taking good care of the eggs but also started cleaning another area of the cone, as if to spawn again
As for the wrigglers down to 2, lost one while cleaning the floor

Quote:

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Originally Posted by assadp

80% of them turned white the other 20% stayed translucent a handful out of the 20% still stayed translucent but had a black middle. Only 3 hatched from them. Update on the digital PH meter
As the saying goes buy cheap buy twice
PH is actually 7.32 and not 7.9
As far as the eggs on this attempt about 170 eggs which started as translucent, now 48hrs 70% have turned white and out of the 30% about 15 to 20 eggs have a dark middle
The pair seem to be taking good care of the eggs but also started cleaning another area of the cone, as if to spawn again
As for the wrigglers down to 2, lost one while cleaning the floor

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The 15 to 20 eggs that turn dark are fertile. I think your ph is ok but your pair on this spawn is not that fertile. Also the eggs are weak so they can't break thru the shell so they were dieing before hatching. I think this is going be a hit or miss. Some strains have this problem especially the high end Discus.

Cliff

Quote:

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Originally Posted by assadp

80% of them turned white the other 20% stayed translucent a handful out of the 20% still stayed translucent but had a black middle. Only 3 hatched from them. Update on the digital PH meter
As the saying goes buy cheap buy twice
PH is actually 7.32 and not 7.9
As far as the eggs on this attempt about 170 eggs which started as translucent, now 48hrs 70% have turned white and out of the 30% about 15 to 20 eggs have a dark middle
The pair seem to be taking good care of the eggs but also started cleaning another area of the cone, as if to spawn again
As for the wrigglers down to 2, lost one while cleaning the floor

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The 15 to 20 eggs that turn dark are fertile. I think your ph is ok but your pair on this spawn is not that fertile. Also the eggs are weak so they can't break thru the shell so they were dieing before hatching. I think this is going be a hit or miss. Some strains have this problem especially the high end Discus.

Cliff

Quote:

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Originally Posted by CliffsDiscus

The 15 to 20 eggs that turn dark are fertile. I think your ph is ok but your pair on this spawn is not that fertile. Also the eggs are weak so they can't break thru the shell so they were dieing before hatching. I think this is going be a hit or miss. Some strains have this problem especially the high end Discus.

Cliff

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Don't get me going about breeding problems with high end Discus. Been there.