Unsure about Discus gills
I'm not sure if this is an illness or a result of injuries during a spike in fighting...
Problem
1. Please explain the problems with your fish. When did you notice the problems and did anything unusual happen that you think started them?
Yesterday. Growth on the gill / The gill seems to have flared up.
2. Symptoms (i.e. turning dark, excess slime, not eating, clamped fins, flashing, darting, clamped gills, white/yellow/green poop, hiding, headstanding or tailstanding, white on tips of fins, rotting or fungus, blisters/white zits on fish, bloated, cloudy eyes, wounds).
Clamped fins for about 2 hours. Which made me pay closer attention but since then nothing. Lot and lots of fighting as another pair is forming.
3. What medications/ treatments have you already tried and what were the results. Include dosage and duration of treatment.
None so far
Tank/Water
4. Tank size and ages, numbers and sizes of fish.
450L, 7 fish, 10-14cm
5. Water change regime (What percentage and how often).
60% 2/3 times a week
6. How long has tank been running? Is it bare bottom? If you have substrate, what type and how deep is it?
Planted tank with substrate. Substrate vacuumed using Ehiem powered gravel vac pro 2/3 times a week. Filter cleaned monthly. Tank has been running for a year.
7. Do you age your water? If you do for how long and what is the ph swing.
No aged water. PH swings are minimal. I have had 2 in the past year.
8. What type/brand water conditioner do you use? Do you add it to the tank or aging barrel? How much do you use?
Prime, left in the tank for 5 minutes with just a power head running for 5 minutes before filtration is switched back on
9. Parameters and water source;
Note: Water Parameters are important in diagnosing problems within a tank. If you don't own test kits for the following information, you can purchase them, test your parameters and post this info as soon as possible.
- temp _____
- ph _____
- ammonia reading ____
- nitrite reading ____
- nitrate reading ____
What type of water or combinations of water sources do you use? If it is an RO/tap/well water mix, please list percentages in the mix.
- well water ____
- municipal water ____
- RO water ____
28C, PH 7.6. Ammonia and nitrate at oppm via api liquid test kit. Nitrate at 10ppm. Tap water.
10. Any new fish, plants or inverts added recently.
Yes. One discus from the same retailer.
11. Please tell us what you feed your fish and how often. This can be critical information for solving the problem so be as specific as you can.
Australian black worms as the staple. Live brine shrimp. New life spectrum, Various discus flake
and recently royal menu pellet.
12. Include any pictures or videos you have which shows the symptoms. If you can't add them to this post, please provide a link to them.
Please take a look at this short vid below.
https://imgur.com/X8QG7YS
Re: Unsure about Discus gills
It loiks like infection or fungus. This can be caused by prolonged poor water quality, possibly as a secondary to flukes. Your water change routine seems decent enough but there can be more to water quality than just water changes. Bio-load plays a big role. As for treatment, I've used Kanamycin + salt, others recommend PP. Either treatment should be done in a hospital tank. Also increase your water changes and try to get nitrates to <5. Hopefully someone with a little more experience with gill issues can weigh in.
I would get a jump on this pretty quickly. Gill damage of this nature is rarely cured 100%.
Re: Unsure about Discus gills
Quote:
Originally Posted by
jeep
It loiks like infection or fungus. This can be caused by prolonged poor water quality, possibly as a secondary to flukes. Your water change routine seems decent enough but there can be more to water quality than just water changes. Bio-load plays a big role. As for treatment, I've used Kanamycin + salt, others recommend PP. Either treatment should be done in a hospital tank. Also increase your water changes and try to get nitrates to <5. Hopefully someone with a little more experience with gill issues can weigh in.
I would get a jump on this pretty quickly. Gill damage of this nature is rarely cured 100%.
I really appreciate the feedback. Truly I do. I'm unsure about the water quality being the cause since I've raised her from 4cm to 12cm. My only other illnesses were beefheart based worms and once I stopped feeding that they haven't been a factor. She is my only spawning /paired female and always gets into fights over territory. I maintain the both canister filters and have more than adequate filtration to handle bio load.
I keep thinking it's an injury from the violence more than anything else and obviously, just want to be certain before I treat the tank.
Also I can't access PP of Kanamycin in the UK as they're controlled substances in the UK.
Re: Unsure about Discus gills
That could be genetic or caused by chemicals, or nutrition .
Operculums can be shortened or curl outward exposing the gills. The curling of operculums can be progressive and more pronounced in older fish. The causes of operculum malformations include genetic , embryonic temperature shock, nutrition and possibly chemical agents. Malformed operculums do cause changes in water flow through the gill chamber and often result in an increased respiratory effort .
The damage does not look like something 'curable ' IMO but more permanent type damage .
The damage also could have been caused by small gill parasites (monogenetic trematodes) or Gill Flukes (gyrodactylus) .
I would just watch close to see if it gets worse .The fish will not re grow a operculum or repair that damage IME.
I don't think that is from fighting honestly .
Re: Unsure about Discus gills
I have Kusuri wormer which is a Flubendazole based treatment for flukes. Would you recommend using this or something else? It does look like an Operculums issue to me.
Re: Unsure about Discus gills
I personally shy away from Flubendazole because of the possible side effects http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showth...le-side-effect
Prazi is a good treatment for flukes as is PP. I'm also cautious about PP because it's easily overdosed and can kill fast. Plus, it will destroy your bio filtration. I'm not sure if prazi will take care of trematodes... I don't hesitate to use prazi because it's pretty easy on the fish and takes care of tapes as well...
When treating for flukes, you want to treat the whole tank.
Re: Unsure about Discus gills
Are you based in the U.K ?........Kusuri UK has Fluke S (praziquantel) radicate Gill Flukes, Body Flukes and Tape Worms. This treatment is safe to use without destroying the bacteria in the filter and can be used at any temperature.
https://www.kusuri.co.uk/medications/
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Rolla P
I have Kusuri wormer which is a Flubendazole based treatment for flukes. Would you recommend using this or something else? It does look like an Operculums issue to me.
Re: Unsure about Discus gills
Quote:
Originally Posted by
seanyuki
Are you based in the U.K ?........Kusuri UK has Fluke S (praziquantel) radicate Gill Flukes, Body Flukes and Tape Worms. This treatment is safe to use without destroying the bacteria in the filter and can be used at any temperature.
https://www.kusuri.co.uk/medications/
I'll purchase this asap.
Re: Unsure about Discus gills
Just sharing...... What it’s good at: Because it’s gentle, Praziquantel is, and always has been, the “treatment of choice” for Flukes (trematodes) in fish. Praziquantel does not require water changes, praziquantel is harmless to fish of *all* species including Discus, Koi and goldfish fry, and is non toxic to plants, and; (unlike Formalin), praziquantel has no negative filter impact.
https://drjohnson.com/praziquantel-f...ng-and-flukes/
Re: Unsure about Discus gills
I've spent a good amount of time retracing my steps and trying to work out the biology changes by eye and I stumbled across the cause. The discus in question went into a clamped fin state for 2 hours directly after a water change. I use a pen and digital thermometer calibrated from a mercury thermometer and it appears the battery in both the pen and thermometer needed changing. They're at that stage where at a glance they show you a stable reading but at an angle are flickering at high speed. I took both and put them in a container of ice cold water and both remain at 28.3C and 29.0C but at an angle the LCD screen is flickering wildly. The batteries in both are not due to be changed for another 2 months.
I believe I dropped the temperature and caused this myself :mad:
Such a ridiculously stupid mistake on my part but a mistake none the less. I'm 100% certain given the timeline and the faulty measuring.
I'm unsure of my next step...
Re: Unsure about Discus gills
I don't see cold water causing that damage myself ..
That is either genetic, nutritional or a disease left un checked .
Again I didn't offer a treatment because in my eye that damage is permanent.
I would love to see the fish recover but in my experience that is too far gone .
Re: Unsure about Discus gills
Quote:
Originally Posted by
coralbandit
I don't see cold water causing that damage myself ..
That is either genetic, nutritional or a disease left un checked .
Again I didn't offer a treatment because in my eye that damage is permanent.
I would love to see the fish recover but in my experience that is too far gone .
I have my fingers crossed that you're wrong on this one. The damage is still there but reduced by about 50% I'm not seeing as much of the fleshy part as the gills move/breathing today so there is hope.
