Co2 high tech tank with discus

Hi everyone,

I'm in the process of getting my planted tank discus ready. I am starting to raise the temp (currently at 81-82) Because of this I am adjusting the co2 slowly to deal with the increase of temperature. I have a group of discus in a separate tank that I would like to add to my planted tank once this tank and the fish are ready.

As I was fiddling around with my planted tank I got to thinking what is the best way to run Co2 in a planted tank with discus in it. So now I'm questioning if my setup will be harmful to my discus

Here is a basic explanation on how my tank is setup

It's a 90 gallon tank 48x18x24 currently stocked with community fish that are compatible with discus The plants kept are also ones that can handle the higher temperatures discus like. No plant substrate just a layer of sand 1/4" thick. My Co2 is on a timer and shuts off an hour before the light go off and turns on an hour before the lights turn on. I dose ferts to the water column at roughly 1/2 of what's recommended by the likes of Tom Barr and others like him. It works for me as my tank is lightly planted and are non demanding plants.

I change the water straight from the tap. I've done this for years with my planted tank with no adverse effects. 50% (sometimes more) of the water is changed once a week. My PH from the tap is around 7.6 in my tank it's around 7.2

So here are my questions

I am wondering how aging the water plays into this scenario. I've always understood that a lower ph in a planted tank is not a problem so long as the KH is not affected. but being that discus are more sensitive to PH than most fish I'd thought it would be wise to ask someone with more experience than me in this area.

Secondly the PH at night is different than the day because the co2 is off at night. will this also me harmful to discus? Again I don't have any problems with the current fish in the tank but I don't want to learn the hard way that this may be harmful to the discus.

I would recommend not starting this way if you are new to discus . Adjusting co2 levels and pH swings and having substrate tank fertilized heavily along with discus in it it's a very tricky compromise that should be left aside as your " final exam " in your discus learning process .
I would start off with discus only and sand bottom tank , and adding all the planters stuff one by one , changing one thing a month and observing changes in discus behaviour to determine the sweet spot between discus and plant needs.
About your question.Water is aged to settle pH swings greater than 0.4 degrees PH and outgass microbubbles in the tap water that stress discus during WCs .
Good luck and please share some photos of your discus tank .

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Filip

I would recommend not starting this way if you are new to discus . Adjusting co2 levels and pH swings and having substrate tank fertilized heavily along with discus in it it's a very tricky compromise that should be left aside as your " final exam " in your discus learning process .
I would start off with discus only and sand bottom tank , and adding all the planters stuff one by one , changing one thing a month and observing changes in discus behaviour to determine the sweet spot between discus and plant needs.
About your question.Water is aged to settle pH swings greater than 0.4 degrees PH and outgass microbubbles in the tap water that stress discus during WCs .
Good luck and please share some photos of your discus tank .

---

Thank you for your response. As I mentioned on my orginal post I don't have a substrate in my planted tank just 1/4" thick layer of fine sand. I also don't fertilize heavy on this tank nitrates are at 15ppm roughly. The plants are not demanding so I dont fertilize more than I have to I could probably get away with less. I'm not new to discus or planted tanks but I've never been successful keeping discus in my planted tanks in the past. I've made several mistakes in the past trying to keep discus in planted tanks. All attempts in past eventually resulted in pulling the fish out of the planted tanks shortly after they were added. Substrate and co2 management along with plant species and layout I think were the biggest issues I had the last time.


Thank you answering my questions regarding ph. I should be able to keep the ph difference to 0.4 or lessbetween the aged water and the tank water. I suppose I could use my ph controller instead of my timer to keep the ph stable around the clock. I haven't used it in years I never really found it necessary in past but I may serve me well in this case.

You said high tech. Why would you need to use or even want to use CO2, if the plants aren't that needy. High tech to me are fast growing plants that need ferts and lights. Keep it simple with lots of clean water and you'll never have to worry much about their health.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by bluelagoon

You said high tech. Why would you need to use or even want to use CO2, if the plants aren't that needy. High tech to me are fast growing plants that need ferts and lights. Keep it simple with lots of clean water and you'll never have to worry much about their health.

---

Sorry everyone has a different take on high tech. I inject co2, I dose ferts and I have higher than normal lighting. But I don't keep delicate or demanding plants. I don't inject a serious amount of co2 or dose a high level or ferts but I still do.

Filipe, have you thought about leaving the co2 on for 24hrs? This reduces the PH swing and this is something I have to research for myself. I'd definitely test it before the discus go into the tank. I know some red plants that thrive with less than 15ppm of nitrate so those are some plants to think about. Therefore, having 15ppm or less is not a problem. My plan, to eventually go planted discus, is to start of with a planted 100g+ tank first. I want to practice keeping the water quality in the planted tank that meet discus requirements before adding discus. I want to establish a nice maintenance routine and once I feel comfortable, then I'll add my stock.

Also, consider having a lower dose of co2. Does not have to be 30ppm. It can be 15-20 as this will reduce the gap between the swing. And, as Mervin mentioned, if it's low requirement plants, then why not dish out the co2 system? My plant is to have an array of plants with a heavy mid and background.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Mando

Filipe, have you thought about leaving the co2 on for 24hrs? This reduces the PH swing and this is something I have to research for myself. I'd definitely test it before the discus go into the tank. I know some red plants that thrive with less than 15ppm of nitrate so those are some plants to think about. Therefore, having 15ppm or less is not a problem. My plan, to eventually go planted discus, is to start of with a planted 100g+ tank first. I want to practice keeping the water quality in the planted tank that meet discus requirements before adding discus. I want to establish a nice maintenance routine and once I feel comfortable, then I'll add my stock.

Also, consider having a lower dose of co2. Does not have to be 30ppm. It can be 15-20 as this will reduce the gap between the swing. And, as Mervin mentioned, if it's low requirement plants, then why not dish out the co2 system? My plant is to have an array of plants with a heavy mid and background.

---

Hi Armando, I completely understand and I'm trying to do the same thing with the 90 gallon planted tank. There is minimal substrate just about 1/4" thick of white neutral sand. There is going to be only one plant species, downoi. I know downoi doesn't need co2 but it responds very well to it. It's attached to rock structures that can me moved in order to clean under them.It also does well with higher temperatures. The co2 is also not at 30ppm it's closer to 15-20. I've used co2 for years and swear by it. If I have too I can remove the co2 but I know that the plants will not respond well. I can run the co2 24/7 and I may do that but it's also why I asked about the use of a ph controller running 24/7 to ensure an constant ph range day and night without wasting co2.

I'm not sure how a PH controller works. My ph is stable and it's something I don't mess in trying to increase or decrease. Mostly afraid of a crash. I'm very new to high tech tank so I'm learning as I go.

I have a high tech planted discus tank, 1 juvenile, 3 4.5 inchers and some guppies. pro grade substrate, Co2, rich substrate nutrients along with water column dosing and an average of 15 - 20 ppm nitrates. With no issues, my ph does not swing though but my KH is 0.. I test ph when lights and Co2 have been off for 8 hours and I read the ph as in the middle of the day when my Co2 is going.

Armando , leaving Co2 at night at the same rate as during the day aka 24/7 can result with much higher Co2 ranges and lower PH during the nights .At night , not only plants do not use CO2 , but they produce it as well .In heavy planted tank this Co2 respiration of plants can go too high along with your Co2 Injection .

I would go with PH controller set to - 0.5 PH or even less with discus . It may not be the optimal solution for plants but at least it should keep your discus happy with stable PH .
You'll have to work out the WC regime or KH addition with the PH graduall loss too , to ensure that your Co2 won't stop pumping gas once the PH goes down due to the nitrification proces .

Discus aside , I agree with Fillipe that low tech or high tech , Co2 does wonders for plants to thrive and achieve their best form of growth that can never be achieved without it .
Discus (and other fish too )don't like CO2 that much , and thats where we have to start making compromises and fine tuning to meet their opposite needs .

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Filip

Armando , leaving Co2 at night at the same rate as during the day aka 24/7 can result with much higher Co2 ranges and lower PH during the nights .At night , not only plants do not use CO2 , but they produce it as well .In heavy planted tank this Co2 respiration of plants can go too high along with your Co2 Injection .

I would go with PH controller set to - 0.5 PH or even less with discus . It may not be the optimal solution for plants but at least it should keep your discus happy with stable PH .
You'll have to work out the WC regime or KH addition with the PH graduall loss too , to ensure that your Co2 won't stop pumping gas once the PH goes down due to the nitrification proces .

Discus aside , I agree with Fillipe that low tech or high tech , Co2 does wonders for plants to thrive and achieve their best form of growth that can never be achieved without it .
Discus (and other fish too )don't like CO2 that much , and thats where we have to start making compromises and fine tuning to meet their opposite needs .

---

I agree. I’ve been reading that most people reduce the night time co2 by half. What PH controller would you recommend? I might just keep the main tank low tech for now and just learn through my shrimp tank.

Thanks for the responses everyone,

Filip thanks for the feedback. a ph drop 0.4 isn't much but in my case might be fine. I don't run a lot of light so there is no need to run much a huge amount of co2. I already had a american marine pinpoint ph controller and I already ordered a new probe yesterday. I will start tinkering with it when it arrives. Considering the plants I'm keeping I should be able to make this work.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by planter

Thanks for the responses everyone,

Filip thanks for the feedback. a ph drop 0.4 isn't much but in my case might be fine. I don't run a lot of light so there is no need to run much a huge amount of co2. I already had a american marine pinpoint ph controller and I already ordered a new probe yesterday. I will start tinkering with it when it arrives. Considering the plants I'm keeping I should be able to make this work.

---

I'm looking forward to follow your experience with discus and downoi garden in a Co2 discus tank on the forum Filippe . Keppeing my fingers crossed for success .

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Mando

I agree. I’ve been reading that most people reduce the night time co2 by half. What PH controller would you recommend? I might just keep the main tank low tech for now and just learn through my shrimp tank.

---

Back in the days when I was regularly following plant forums (8 years ago + - )Milwaukee PH controller along with all of their products were considered top of the list .
I'm not sure if anything new or better has shown up on the market but I would guess that Milwaukee should still be considered as quality equipment in our hobby .

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Filip

I'm looking forward to follow your experience with discus and downoi garden in a Co2 discus tank on the forum Filippe . Keppeing my fingers crossed for success .



Back in the days when I was regularly following plant forums (8 years ago + - )Milwaukee PH controller along with all of their products were considered top of the list .
I'm not sure if anything new or better has shown up on the market but I would guess that Milwaukee should still be considered as quality equipment in our hobby .

---

Thank you, So am I. The trick is going to be getting that PH to the .4 range. I've been using the api ph tests to measure my ph which for now is good enough. Once my ph controller is up and running I'll be able to get a much more accurate reading.


The marine pinpoint is considered a "better" unit. It's claims to be more accurate +/- .02 vs the Milwaukee at +/- 0.2. I never used the Milwaukee unit before so I really can't comment on it's performance.

I finally got around to setting up my ph controller. After calibrating the probe I tested the water from the tap, my aged water, and my planted tank.

Results were

From Tap 7.7
Aged water 7.7
Aquarium 6.9 (with current co2 injection)

Seems like my api ph kits or my ability to precive minor variations in colour were incorrect.

I removed the timer from the co2 solenoid and connected it directly to my controller.

I've set the controller to maintain a ph between 7.2 and 7.3 I've also reduced the light by 20 percent.

Let's see what happens over the next week or so.